At first I was afraid, I was petrified

Kept thinking I could never live without you by my side

But then I spent so many nights thinking how you did me wrong

And I grew strong

And I learned how to get along

And so you're back

From outer space

Alison Stewart: That was New Jersey's own Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive, one of the most popular anthems, as well as the first and only song to win a Grammy for best disco recording. I Will Survive as also part of the title of a new documentary that chronicles Gloria on her journey to recording her 20th studio album and her first gospel album titled Testimony. This happened while she was in her 70s. Of course, this is after hits such as Never Can Say Goodbye in '74, I Am What I Am in 1984, and Can't Take my Eyes Off You in 1990. We see the artist have encounters with ageism, health challenges, the sting of rejection as she tries to break into a new genre, as well as painful memories of sexual assault.

Those are the highs, they're highs conquering Europe and being honored by the Library of Congress, and there are some lows. A digital journal review states, ''Overall Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive, is a beautiful movie by Betsy Schechter, which is a moving homage to the disco queen. Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive is screening at Village East by Angelika this Saturday, June 17th at 5:15 PM as part of the Tribeca Festival. Joining us now is the director, the Emmy-nominated producer, Betsy Schechter. Hi, Betsy.

Betsy Schechter: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: You told Deadline a friend introduced you to Gloria Gaynor and her manager, Stephanie Gold, back in 2015. What was that first encounter like?

Betsy Schechter: It was great just to meet Gloria and talk to her manager. I was just not wanting to do a biopic and I knew something about her past, but when I talked to them, Gloria had just gotten her psychology degree and was embarking on this gospel album self-funded, so it really was exciting and interesting to me.

Alison Stewart: You spent many years working on this film. How did you decide what aspects of her life to focus on, because she has had so many different eras?

Betsy Schechter: We followed her in the course of the last eight years, and the things that are in testimony hearken back to things that happened in her past, so it really was an intertwining of the future, the present, and the past. The things that were important for her to talk about, and as I got to know her, it was all part of the support of the forward motion of this documentary.

Alison Stewart: When someone first brings up the idea of, "Oh yes, we'll have cameras follow you around for a while," and then years later the cameras are still there, how did you make her feel comfortable with having your presence around for literally years?

Betsy Schechter: We weren't very intrusive, but we were there all the time. She always treats everyone with such respect and she didn't say no to anything. I think we just gained each other's trust and we were in Europe with her, we were all over with her in every aspect of her life, and in the recordings which her producer of Testimony actually is the one that said, "You should do a documentary following the making of this." For him, he's the one that really was the impetus for them to even talk to me.

Alison Stewart: We're talking to Betsy Schechter. Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive is screening as part of Tribeca on Saturday, June 17th. One of the people who features prominently in the story, of course, we hear from Gloria, but also her manager, Stephanie Gold, takes up a lot of space in the film, gives another perspective. When did you realize that she was going to be a really important part of the storytelling?

Betsy Schechter: When they started recording. Probably in the first day if you see Stephanie, she's just a powerhouse. It was really to see two women really supporting each other and doing something where the odds were against them. Stephanie is of course of nature, but also really smart. I saw another aspect to the film with Stephanie and it really was from the beginning.

Alison Stewart: Because when Stephanie comes aboard, Gloria wasn't in the best place. How did they connect and why was Stephanie the right person to help Gloria in this next step of her career?

Betsy Schechter: Stephanie knew Gloria. She was, I think, an assistant in a touring company when Gloria was early on, and saw how Gloria was being treated, and they lost contact. When Gloria couldn't find anyone to really manage her after her divorce, her husband was her manager, she reached out through mutual friends to see if Stephanie would come on as an assistant. She was doing everything, and so at one point she goes, "You're managing me. You should be my manager." That's how it all came together.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting people who have these amazing careers, they're at the top of their game, someone like Gloria Gaynor who has all of these huge hits. From working on this documentary, how do women like this, smart women, talented women, end up in positions where they are having to go into record companies or going into management offices and saying, "Hey, would you be interested in working with me?" What did you learn about the music industry and women?

Betsy Schechter: I can't say anything about-- Everything in the music industry, just this experience, is that you're put in a box, and there's potentially ageism too, you're not the next thing to break out, and they have to put certain amount of money behind different people, and also she was known for disco. Even though she's had a lot of hits and she's had 20 albums. A person later in their career trying to change genres and get that support was hard. For Gloria, she had a message, not just to survive but thrive, and you see it. You don't just hear her say it, you see how she does it.

A lot of great musicians came to rally behind her because I think they were inspired by her because they all have careers in different ways and having to be able to do something different and create it for yourself. She basically created her future herself and a lot of great musicians came on. Then the labels I think now are looking at this. She's actually coming out with a new album where she has writers from Miley Cyrus's writers to I think Taylor Swift's writers, and it's coming out on her 80th birthday year, so she's still going strong

Alison Stewart: In the film, we see as she really wants to put out a gospel album and we are taken through the recording process. Why was the gospel album so important to her?

Betsy Schechter: She's had a lot of hard things happen and she discovered her faith later, and it got her through a lot of things. From her sister's murder to a lot of different things in her life. She wanted to show people whatever your faith is or how you reach it and find it, it can really help you. She wanted to use the gospel album as a way of reaching out. She's seen and she still sees the power of I Will Survive. I traveled with her.

She stopped all the time and people telling their stories from all walks of life of how this song impacted them, and so she saw the power of music and how she could now take it one step further and say you don't have to just be a survivor, you can actually thrive and create the next steps in your life. She really felt this album could be that vehicle for that.

Alison Stewart: The gospel music industry, for lack of a better word, why were they wary? Why didn't they throw their arms open right away to Gloria Gaynor?

Betsy Schechter: I don't know if it was wary. There's just a lot of great people in the gospel industry. I think it was just she was older, she had been doing disco. She wasn't in the mix. She didn't come up through that and-- I really can't answer the question as much as know that there were barriers and it took amazing gospel artists to come on to get the attention and she was happy for it. A lot of great gospel music singers came on to the album and it opened up doors that way.

However you can get a message to people, she wants to get it. She felt grateful for that support, and for the gospel musicians, and also the Gaither group who came on to distribute. I think that when you get doors closed, you just look for other doors, no matter what you've done in the past. I think everyone has to just keep moving and keep going.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Betsy Schechter. She's the director of Gloria Gaynor: I will survive. We'll have more with Betsy after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. We're discussing the film Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive with its director Betsy Schechter. It's part of the Tribeca Festival. The screening is Saturday, June 17th. Betsy, while we're following her career, we're also following her personal health issues. Gloria had a long-time spinal injury. We're going to listen to a clip from the film, but would you explain what happened to her?

Betsy Schechter: Sure. Do you want to listen to the clip first or me explain?

Alison Stewart: Explain first.

Betsy Schechter: Okay. Before I Will Survive, she was performing and she fell off of stage and she woke up the next morning paralyzed and was in the hospital for several months and her record contract was going to go away. Anyway, she recorded, I Will Survive in a back brace after having multiple rods put in, and over time, it just started-- The doctor could probably explain it better than me but over the years, she had some several surgeries, and it was getting worse and I traveled with her and she didn't want people to know about-- she wanted them to know about her singing and not her pain, but it was getting worse to the point where she's probably going to end up in a wheelchair and she had to make a decision to get this surgery that was 19 hours.

She couldn't finish the album without doing this, so there was a lot of tense moments about it. She had a wonderful doctor and came through with the surgery and was now standing up straight for the first time in her life for a long time in I think 20 years.

Alison Stewart: We'll listen to a clip from the film Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive. This is just after Gloria goes in to an extensive spinal realignment surgery that you mentioned and Stephanie Gould, her manager is waiting for her at the hospital. It's really interesting. It really shows their dynamic. This is from Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive.

Stephanie Gold: She's had prior back surgeries and she's gotten back on stage. I don't think I will ever work with another artist. We'll still always be friends and we'll still always hang out but I will never find anyone as good as Gloria.

Alison Stewart: Stephanie is really devoted to her. It seems like it's more than just a work relationship.

Betsy Schechter: Yes, for both of them but frankly, all her band, it starts for the top with Gloria and Stephanie, it's like a family and people really care about each other. It's really rewarding to see that and to see how everyone supports each other, but yes, they support each other and are really friends too. It was hard on Stephanie, I know it and she's a really strong woman, but so is Gloria. They're both people we can all learn from, whether a woman or whatever. We all could learn from their tenacity, and they're never giving up. It was inspiring to me to be around these very two strong women.

Alison Stewart: We also get a little bit of Gloria Gaynor's backstory, how she started in her early career working with producer Clive Davis and we get to hear her first single Honey Bee. Let's take a listen.

[music]

Gloria Gaynor: I got introduced to Clive Davis at Columbia Records. Clive had Ledbetter and Melvin Steals write a song for me. That was my first single.

[music]

You're my honey bee (you're my honey bee, baby)

Come on and sting me (your love is sweet as can be)

I wasn't crazy about the first song that I was given to record but when I first started out, I had to sing what they asked me to sing. I had no way of saying. "No, that's not what I want to do."

Alison Stewart: When did Gloria get some control overseeing what she wanted to sing?

Betsy Schechter: At 65 I believe. She can answer that but when she took over control of her career, I think that was when she really had control over what she wanted to say. I think she was happy with songs she sang, but she co-wrote all the songs on the new album and I think that's when it really changed for her.

Alison Stewart: There's so much interesting history, music history trivia in the film that she won the only Grammy for Disco, and that I Will Survive was actually a B-side.

Betsy Schechter: Isn't that incredible? It was the New York audiences that got it to be popular. She brought it to Studio 54. She's really appreciative of the New York audience's ability.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] The name of the documentary is Gloria Gaynor: I Will Survive screening at Village East by Angelica this Saturday, June 17th at 5:15 PM as part of the Tribeca Festival. I don't want to give away too much of what happens in the film, but let's just say she did make the record called Testimony. Betsy, thank you for being with us.

Betsy Schechter: Thank you so much. I appreciate the time.

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