Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The Gilded Age just announced that it has been renewed for season three. So while you're waiting for that, you can currently experience The Gilded Age up close and learn more about the time period's art and cultural history by visiting an exhibition at the Nassau County Museum of Art. We think of The Gilded Age and immediately think of robber barons and hyper-capitalist industries of Manhattan, but this exhibition is called Our Gilded Age, in part because Long Island played a significant role in the Gilded Age culture.

The estates of wealthy business tycoons lined Long Island's Gold Coast including the very own estate that is now the Nassau County Museum. In the show, there are pristine portraits of Gilded Age figures by John Singer Sargent. There are cabinets, dressers, other furniture from Gilded Age era homes. The exhibit also focuses on the upstairs/downstairs dynamics of many Gilded Age-era estates shining a light on workers who spent their days serving. Our Gilded Age is on view through March 10th at the Nassau County Museum of Art and Curators. Franklin Perrell joins us now. Did I get your last name right?

Franklin Perrell: It's Franklin Hill Perrell.

Alison Stewart: Franklin Hill Perrell. Franklin,-

Franklin Perrell: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: -thank you for being with us.

Franklin Perrell: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: All right, Alex, I'm going to go for yours as well. Alex Maccaro.

Alex Maccaro: That's correct.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Alex, welcome. Thanks for-- Both of you for coming into the studio. We have spoken about this before, but just so everyone can start at the same place, Franklin, what's the general time era of the Gilded Age? What is Mark Twain referring to? Mark Twain coined the term.

Franklin Perrell: Gilded Age starts in 1870 and continues to about 1920. The timeframe, post Civil War. There was a great deal of industrial wealth as a result of new industries, as a result of immigration creating a market and creating a workforce, and innovation in mining and technology, and the entrepreneurial spirit. A lot like the internet culture of the last 30 years. Consequently, Americans, for the first time, had a chance to travel to Europe, see great palaces, see great art.

Their standard prior to that had been Philadelphia, New York, or Charleston, and it really wasn't quite up to the standard of Rome and Paris. Their eyes were open, and they knew they wanted to be participants like the great aristocrats whom they encountered on their European travels. That lasted until it was pretty much shut down by World War I, but along the way, a phenomenal amount of significant art and entirely new art movements were engendered because of this appetite for opulence.

Alison Stewart: We know about Manhattan setting in the Gilded Age. I think most people know, we walk around the city. What about Long Island? Why is that region important to considering the Gilded Age's legacy in history, Alex?

Alex Maccaro: I think Long Island's very important because a lot of these big mansions and big palatial states were located in this area such as Old Westbury Gardens in Westbury, such as the Bryce Frick Mansion, which is now the Nassau County Museum of Art. I think it's important to consider Long Island because it was a very important area of the Gilded Age. I think, also, that it was essential with all of these country estates as well.

Alison Stewart: The country estates. City and country as they say. Tell us about the Nassau County Museum. Tell us about the building. Whose was its owner? When was it constructed?

Franklin Perrell: Well, the property at once was-- Belonged to William Cullen Bryant, one of the greatest 19th-century romantic poets.

Alison Stewart: Heard of him.

Franklin Perrell: As these Gilded Age gazillionaires wanted to emulate the lifestyle of British country properties that they saw on their travels, one of these gentlemen, a man named Lloyd Bryce who was a publisher of the North American Review, was also a publisher of the works of Edith Warton at that time, engaged an architect named Ogden Codman. Codman's famous for being the design partner with Edith Wharton in her book Decoration of Houses. Codman, fabulous Beaux-Arts-era architect emulating the styles of Neoclassicism.

He trained, initially, in Boston and then studied the great buildings of Europe and emulated that in his work. Bryce commissioned Codman in 1900 to build on property that he had bought from the heirs of William Cullen Bryant on a high orchard overlooking Roslyn Harbor and constructed this neoclassical mansion on the pattern of a British country house, a specific one.

The Fricks acquired it in 1917 and the basis for that was Henry Clay Frick, who had just completed his 1 East 70th Street, today the Frick Collection, had a son, Childs Frick, married. The wife, Post World War I, returning son as a veteran, wife was pregnant with a fourth child, her father-in-law thought it would be a great idea to buy her a diamond, huge diamond from Tiffany, and she said, "Nothing doing. I need a country house to bring up my children in." [laughter] He went shopping for North Shore, Long Island real estate and acquired the property that's now the Nassau County Museum.

Alison Stewart: That's a woman after my own heart.

Alex Maccaro: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Forget the jewelry, let's go for the real estate. [laughter] Alex, when you think about the museum, what's a part of it you could describe to someone who's never been there before that really sort of gets at the essence of the Gilded Age? Whether it's a staircase or a fixture.

Alex Maccaro: It is a 145-acre county preserve on which is located a palatial Gilded Age mansion. We also have a lot of modern sculpture on the property as well as trails and formal gardens that were designed for Mrs. Frick by a noted garden designer named Marian Cruger Coffin. Essentially, we are a little oasis in the midst of the bustling area of Long Island.

Alison Stewart: Those gardens, I bet they're beautiful.

Alex Maccaro: Oh, they're gorgeous.

Alison Stewart: Franklin, who were some of the notable Gilded Age historical figures who lived on Long Island in the era?

Franklin Perrell: Well, of course, there was Theodore Roosevelt who actually was a guest at the Nassau Museum when it was owned by the Bryces. He lived in Oyster Bay. The Phipps family, of course, with Old Westbury Gardens in Old Westbury, the co-family, plant-- Which is, today, planting fields. The C.W. Post, Long Island University, the Huttons were there. We can think of a number of families. The Webbs, the Pratts in Glen Cove, the Vanderbilts in Centerport, Whitneys and Vanderbilts throughout the North Shore. Many of these properties are, today, preserved as schools or as country clubs or other environments.

Alison Stewart: Forgive me if this is a left-field question. Why would someone go to Long Island versus going to Newport?

Franklin Perrell: Ah, that's a good question. Long Island developed as a resort largely because of the proximity to New York and Long Island Sound. It proved to be a Newport alternative, and I think it really took the thunder off of Newport around-- By around 1900. I think Newport was, really, the place in the 1880s, but the North Shore of Long Island gained steam, and I think it had to do with the immediacy of its proximity to the scene of the action in Manhattan.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about the exhibition at the Nassau County Museum of Art, Our Gilded Age, which is on view through March 10th. My guests are Franklin Hill Perrell and Alex Maccaro. Alex, on the website it says the show draws on the literary history of Long Island. What's an example of Long Island literary history?

Alex Maccaro: Walt Whitman himself was a Long Islander. He was born in Huntington, and he was very prominent, especially in Brooklyn and on Long Island as well. We also have the history of William Cullen Bryant, a literary figure himself.

Alison Stewart: Anyone notable you would like to add to that list, Franklin?

Franklin Perrell: I think that covers it.

Alison Stewart: Okay. There are a lot of portraits on view at the exhibition. What's the portrait mean at this time?

Franklin Perrell: Ah, I think the portrait, at this moment, and I think of Henry Clay Frick as a-- As setting a standard, a tone, of what you might call grand manor portraiture. If you go to 1 East 70th Frick Collection, you will see Rubens, Rembrandt, Van Dyke, the Gainesborough, and the like, and American collectors were looking to follow that notion. The Sargents, the Paxtons, the John White Alexanders that we have, William Merrit Chase, are all emulating the spirit of that grand manner portraiture that collectors like Frick were acquiring in Europe. It's a fascinating thing.

One note about the mansion itself and a Frick connection is that when Frick bought the house for his son, he also brought with him another designer, Sir Charles Allom. Allom did the interiors that are now in the Frick in New York. Our primary main gallery is a lot like the Frick's main gallery. Essentially, it had the same designer. The room was refitted with boiseriese woodwork from another 18th-century house in Britain, shut down due to debt duties, rather like a Downton Abbey kind of a story.

When you go into our main gallery and you see our American portraits, it's very much like going into the frick in New York and seeing 17th and 18th-century European portraits because the Americans that we have are emulating that kind of scale. In a way, rather like the Frick in New York, we've populated the room also with furniture so that the furniture when-- Never before in the history of the museum, and I've been involved for more than 25 years, have I seen it look this good [laughs]

In terms of a room as an interior, it really-- What we have in the show, because it reflects the house and its era and the kind of things somebody of that moment would've experienced, and I think that's why that title is so apt, Our Gilded Age, because suddenly, the house and its context and its architecture become forefronted as a primary artifact in the show itself and creates the context experientially of looking-- It's almost like a time travel when you walk through the galleries.

Alison Stewart: We're discussing Our Gilded Age at The Nassau County Museum of Art. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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This is All Of It, on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We are talking about an exhibition at The Nassau County Museum of Art called Our Gilded Age. It's on view through March 10th. My guests are curators are Franklin Hill Perrell and Alex Maccaro. A big part of the exhibition highlights the upstairs/downstairs dynamic that we've all seen in the TV show. Why was this an important feature as part of the exhibition? Alex, I'll ask you to go first.

Alex Maccaro: Sure. This is an essential part of the exhibition because these were the figures that made these grand estates happen. They polished the silver, they sewed luxurious dresses, they cooked the meals. These were the behind-the-scenes people of the Gilded Age. Too often are they really untold, are they not really featured in Gilded Age presentations. In our exhibition, we seek to present these untold histories, these hidden histories of the Gilded Age. It's very important to highlight the everyday Gilded Age, so to speak.

Alison Stewart: Sounds like it provides a good deal of context.

Alex Maccaro: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: [unintelligible 00:12:36] what life was like. When we think about the downstairs process, it's very easy to find out the history of the Vanderbilts [chuckles] and the Roosevelts. What was the research process like?

Alex Maccaro: It was a lot of library and archival research thanks to a library on Long Island called the Bryant Library which is in-- Located in Roslyn. It was thanks to the archives that possess a detailed account of the son of a chauffeur who very much highlighted the everyday and detailed meticulous workings of an estate called Harbor Hill, which was nearby the estate of Clarence Mackay, the telecommunications heir. It really details and highlights the everyday workings of an estate. From that research, I was able to contextualize the Gilded Age within this upstairs-downstairs context.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. We got a text from someone that says, "I work for the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Long Island which includes Brooklyn and Queens, and parts of season two of the Gilded Age were filmed on our campus in Garden City and inside our historic buildings. This is further evidence there are parts of Long Island, especially the architecture, that reflect the period." That's Marie, Reverend Marie who texted in. Thank you, Reverend Marie. Franklin, what would you want people to understand about the typical day of a servant in a Gilded Age mansion?

Franklin Perrell: Well, I think Alex would be-

Alison Stewart: Oh, Alex, go for it.

Franklin Perrell: -better on [crosstalk].

Alex Maccaro: Sure. They would, essentially, do everyday tasks such as polishing the silver, cooking the meals. It was a hierarchical system of servants too, so there were upper level household staff such as the housekeeper and the butler who would supervise the staff. The lower level, so to speak, housekeepers that would work on the gardens, work on the estate, but also there were a lot of tasks that everybody were responsible for doing.

Alison Stewart: People are very into this. We've got someone who's called in. Emily from Ossining who's had some experience. Hi, Emily.

Emily: Thanks so much, Alison. I'm remembering, listening to your show, that in the '70s, when I was a student at Bank Street College, there was a woman in my advisory group who owned-- She and her husband owned the former estate of J.P. Morgan on Morgan Island. She invited everybody, like four or five of us, to her place on Morgan Island, and it was amazing. There were three Gobelin tapestries on the wall, and it was just an amazing, amazing spot. I just wondered if that fits into the category of Gilded Age and [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: First of all, where's Morgan Island, Emily?

Emily: It's in Glen Cove or it's outside of-- It's in a little island. You had to go over a little bridge, a little teeny bridge, and she took us around in a horse-drawn buggy and said my dog could come. Bigfoot chased after a rabbit or something. It was a long time ago now. It's about 50 years or so, but I remember like I'd never seen a place like that. [chuckles].

Alison Stewart: Wow. Emily, thank you for calling in. You were nodding in-

Alex Maccaro: Agreement, yes.

Alison Stewart: -agreement.

Alex Maccaro: -Acknowledgment.

Alison Stewart: What are some of the objects that we'll see for the downstairs portion, the servant's portion, in this exhibition?

Alex Maccaro: Not only do we see the grand items of portraits and paintings and decorative items, but for this purpose, we see a lot of everyday items that the household staff would use. Such as a two-man cider press, such as copper and cookware, such as China that they would serve these lavish meals on. We really present a wide variety of subject material and objects in this exhibition.

Alison Stewart: We're going to head back upstairs, Franklin. I teased in the intro that there's work from John Singer's Sergeant. What will people see?

Franklin Perrell: Alex found this incredible resource. Tell us about that drawing with the four heads in it.

Alex Maccaro: This drawing is an early figure study by Sargent from a private collection that is from his early career, about 1875 or so, when he was traveling throughout the south of France. He was a very itinerant artist, a very traveling artist as well. He did these drawings, some of which are in color, from watercolor that present and highlight the sailors of the port of Nice. This drawing is a rare drawing that we have the opportunity to exhibit in this show.

Franklin Perrell: I should mention, we have another thing that we, at the last minute came to-- We have some great loans from institutions nearby, like Raynham Hall in Oyster Bay, Sagamore Hill, Old Westbury Gardens. I may have left out one or two, but we have a drawing of Edith Kermit Carrow, Mrs. Roosevelt, Mrs. Theodore Roosevelt, from Sagamore Hill. It's a rarely-shown work from the archives that is typically not on display. Such a work in charcoal, it's a little bit sensitive to light, et cetera. That's a terrific thing. Then we have another oil that Sargent portrayed his painting restorer.

Alex Maccaro: Yes, Daniel Nolan is his name. He worked for Copley Gallery in Boston, and he restored one of Sargent's paintings in the 1910s. In 1917, as a thank you presence to Daniel Nolan, because Sargent had largely given up portrait painting commissions by 1907, so he painted this as a present for his friend Daniel Nolan. You can see in the gal-- In the painting on the top, it is dedicated, "To my friend Daniel J. Nolan."

Alison Stewart: Wow. That's amazing.

Alex Maccaro: Interesting.

Alison Stewart: It can take you right back to the moment. I noticed in some of the imagery that was sent over, dresses.

Franklin Perrell: You made me think, and Alex made me think also, of a painting that I must mention because I think it's the star-- There are a few that are stars of the show. The Chase portrait of his daughter and the-- And Son-in-law, amazing. This particular one is Sargent-esque, is the Cecilia Beaux portrait of Mrs. [crosstalk]

Alex Maccaro: John Frederick Lewis.

Franklin Perrell: Yes. Mrs. John Frederick Lewis and her son, Junior. This painting is bigger than life-size, and it has a piece of furniture in it that's gilt. We have next to it this wonderful loan from European decorative arts of the Millet piece of furniture, who was the top designer of the Belle Époque. We have this cabinet next to this painting, and it's as if the pai-- The cabinet is in the painting. This work by Cecilia Beaux, if you came into the gallery, you would say it's the best Sargent you'd ever seen. That was exactly how it was characterized by Bernard Berenson who saw a Cecilia Beaux like that on an exhibition. He said, "This is the best Sargent I've ever seen."

Alex Maccaro: Yes, absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Franklin, you're going to be giving a talk this Sunday at the museum at 3:00 PM open to the public. Would you give us a preview?

Franklin Perrell: Oh, what that is is, in a way, it's a behind-the-scenes walkthrough of the exhibition. I think prior to that, we hope that visitors to the museum will partake of the regular two o'clock tour. Alex, these are every day, aren't they?

Alex Maccaro: Yes, every day. They're every day at 2:00 PM.

Franklin Perrell: The docents will lead a walkthrough at 2:00. Then the participants in the walkthrough can come in. I think there's a [unintelligible 00:21:00] Come in to the lecture at 3:00, and then they'll hear us talk about the backstory of how we acquired the works of art. From the lenders, obviously. Also, the story of the context of the [clears throat]- excuse me. -the story of the context of the rooms that they have seen and how these rooms were used by the Fricks and by the Bryces, and how these paintings then echo those circumstances.

Alison Stewart: Alex, what do you hope people walk away from after the show learning, knowing, thinking about?

Alex Maccaro: I would want visitors to really get a better picture of the Gilded Age. Not only the glamorous side of the Gilded Age but the everyday aspect of the Gilded Age. I really would like them to get a better picture of our museum in this setting and just get a better overview of the history of this period.

Alison Stewart: You have a month left to see Our Gilded Age at the Nassau County Museum of Art. It is up through March 10th. My guests have been curators Franklin Perrell and Alex Maccaro. Thank you so much for coming into the studio.

Alex Maccaro: Thank you, Alison.

Franklin Perrell: Thank you, Alison.

Alison Stewart: That is All Of It for today. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.

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