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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It, I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming this now, or listening to it on demand, I'm really grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll talk about the end of Succession with actor J. Smith-Cameron, who played corporate attorney Gerri Kellman, general all around grown up in the room. We'll also speak with British art historian Katy Hessel. She has a new bestselling book out called The Story of Art Without Men. We'll speak with Natalie Merchant about her album, Keep Your Courage. Her music was featured on the Internet's favorite series about 90s kids stranded after a plane crash, which gets us to our first guest today. Let's get this started with Christina Ricci and Yellowjackets. [music]

This weekend saw the season finale of Yellowjackets, the wild Series about a 1990 suburban New Jersey girls' soccer team stranded for more than a year in the woods after a plane crash. The girls and a few guys resort to extremes, including cannibalism to survive. We get to know them as teenagers and now adult women who made it home and brought their trauma with them. One of the main instigators of much of the action then and now is Misty, played by Christina Ricci. New York magazine's, The Cut has declared her "The most terrifying character on TV." In flashbacks, we see that young Misty and the other girls are struggling to survive a harsh winter in the wilderness. Looking for guidance, they begin to fall under the spell of Lottie, a girl who seems to have mysterious powers of foresight and a unique connection to the forest plus, she's been off her medication since the crash.

In present day, Lottie is running a commune where everyone wears purple and talks about their feelings. Misty arrives there with a new boyfriend in tow to look for Natalie, one of the other plane crash survivors who has disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Misty is a woman who will stop at nothing, nothing, including murder, to help her friends. One by one, each of the surviving plane crash members arrive at Lottie's Commune, reuniting with Natalie and each other. Being together again draws out some of the darker impulses in the women as some of them become convinced that whatever force Lottie was communicating with in the Woods has returned. All this led to a deadly showdown in the season finale, which added to Misty's growing body count. Here to help us break down the season of Yellowjackets and take your calls is actor Christina Ricci. Hey Christina, thank you for making time for us.

Christina Ricci: Hi. Thank you so much for having me on.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, Christina is taking calls about all things Yellowjackets. What questions do you have for her about becoming Misty? Maybe you have a question about the filming process or the finale, give us a call or you can text us, 212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC. That's our phone number if you'd like to be on the air. You can also text us as well. Social media is @AllOfItWNYC. Christina, Misty is this tricky character because she does these awful things, but for the right reasons in her mind. What are some of the aspects of Misty that you like or maybe even admire?

Christina Ricci: She's a really fun character to play [laughter] and I guess because I'm the one who makes a lot of the choices, I feel like I understand her, and she makes sense to me. She's somebody who as a teen, we see she's not accepted by her peers, she has no social currency, and out in the wilderness is the first time that we see her being valued for her knowledge, her survival skills. Her willingness and ability to do what needs to be done and not shy away from anything gross, like that. I think what they go through out there in the woods, it's so traumatic and it crosses so many lines that the returning to a sense of normalcy, the boundaries are just so big at that point, or there aren't any, or there are no limits. I think that's why for her murder isn't really a big thing anymore. [laughter]

Alison Stewart: That's maybe the answer to my next question, but that cut headline from New York Magazine is so funny. Misty from Yellowjackets is the most terrifying character on TV. What do you think makes her actually scary?

Christina Ricci: I think what makes her scary is that she's, first of all, very innocuous looking. She's bright and cheerful in a passive-aggressive way, but at least we don't know that. She just seems harmless, but then she really is willing to do whatever it takes. Her solutions are probably not the kinds of solutions you think she's coming to if you didn't know her. She just seems like a harmless individual, but because nothing's off limits for her, she's terrifying.

Alison Stewart: I wanted to ask about the look because for people who haven't seen, you can go Google now. I think many of our viewers have seen. Misty has this blonde halo of curls, [laughs], and these big owl-like glasses. Was she described in the script that way or is that a look that you worked with costuming on? Tell us a little bit about what Misty looks like and how you all arrived at her look.

Christina Ricci: She was described as having wild curls and when we went to do the pilot, she's blonde as a teenager, we thought it'd be fun if she had a lot of gray. In the pilot and the first couple of episodes, I actually have gray hair, but then they switched it because they thought it was a little too much. Other than the curls and the glasses, it wasn't really all that specified. I was always very cognizant of not having her look too cartoonish just because I knew that what I'd be doing with my face would be very large [laughter] and generous. I wanted her to look like somebody that's dismissible, that you don't look twice at or you look at and you think, "Oh, that person looks slightly odd, I'm just going to stay away from them," but you don't really know why.

I just tried to make her look in general-- first of all, her haircut is based on a haircut my mother had in the '90s. I love the curly bob. It's one of my favorites. The more out of control curly bob the better for me personally. I know that I don't really share the same taste as everybody else. I thought we'll use the curly bob because I love it, but other people will want to make fun of it. Then with the glasses, they wanted Sally Jessy Raphael's red glasses, and I thought it was best to really keep her just a little bit muted. We do do cat sweaters and all really unflattering pastel colors, but I also wanted to keep in mind that for me, I think that this person is just someone who doesn't understand trends. She doesn't really understand social rules, and so everything that she wears it's like she saw someone else wearing it and thought, "Okay, that makes sense to me, I'll wear that."

The kind of person that she finds a nice pair of pants and buys them in five different colors and just-- You know what I mean? It's more functional. She has one nurse, so we keep her in Crocs and socks all the time, which is one of my favorite things ever as an actor. I've never been so comfortable on any job, but really she's meant to look harmless, but also, like I said, dismissible, somebody that people don't look like that.

Alison Stewart: My guess, Christina Ricci, we are talking about her role as Misty on Yellowjackets, the season finale was last weekend. We're getting a bunch of questions. Someone has texted in, "Christina, how did you and the other cast members work with actors who played the younger versions of you? What was that process?" Yes, the actor who plays the younger version of you is Samantha Hanratty. How does that work?

Christina Ricci: Well, it's different through each one of us, each pair. I know that some of us spent more time with our younger versions than others. For me and Samantha, we literally met at the camera test before shooting the pilot. Then before we went into Season One, we had a lunch together where we shared all of the notes and references we'd been given by the EPs. She has a very different personality than I do, so a lot of the notes-- I don't know how to describe it. They'll give you notes based on your personality that are meant to counteract the thing in your personality they do not want in the character. By comparing the different notes that she and I got, because we do have very different personalities, we were able to really even more hone in on who she should be because Misty was a little confusing-- Not confusing, but originally she was described as a sociopath. Then we wanted to step back from that because putting such a strong label on a character can limit who that character can become later on. Then it was this idea of how far do we go in each direction. I think it took a little bit of time both Samantha and me to find.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. Lloyd from Manhattan's calling in, and I think Lloyd has seen you on stage, Christina. Hi, Lloyd. You're on with Christina Ricci.

Lloyd: Hi Alison. Hi, Christina. Yes.

Christina Ricci: Hi.

Lloyd: I saw Christina Ricci playing Hermia in A Midsummer Night's Dream at the Classic Stage Company, and Christina tucked herself into a suitcase and stayed inside the suitcase on stage for about 10 minutes. It was one of the most amazing things I had ever seen.

Christina Ricci: [laughs] Well, it was a big suitcase.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Christina, are you remembering this performance?

Christina Ricci: Oh, yes. I know exactly what he's talking about. I waited in a suitcase and then came out.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: As one does. A day on the job.

[laughter]

Christina Ricci: Midsummer Night's Dream.

Alison Stewart: This one says, "Question for Christina, what's uniquely Jersey about your character and how does New Jersey play a role in the arc of the series?"

Christina Ricci: Well, Connie Cypress and I are actually from New Jersey and we're teenagers in New Jersey at this time, and I was actually on a girl's soccer team in high school. I was on the JV soccer team.

Alison Stewart: What was the name of your team and what town?

Christina Ricci: It was Montclair High School. I don't really remember the name.

Alison Stewart: I grew up in Glen Ridge in the '90s.

Christina Ricci: Oh, funny.

Alison Stewart: Maybe we--

Christina Ricci: I was on the swim team too, the Montclair Beach Club swim team. [laughter] We used to Glen Ridge and compete with you guys.

Alison Stewart: That's hilarious.

Christina Ricci: [laughs] I think innately, the character's going to be New Jersey because I have a slight New Jersey accent, pronounce certain words the way that one does when they're from New Jersey and specifically from-- I'm the correct age and everything.

Alison Stewart: Say the word Orange.

Christina Ricci: Orange.

Alison Stewart: There you go.

[laughter]

Christina Ricci: I didn't know that was a specific word.

Alison Stewart: That's a very Jersey word. Comes out orange. My guest--

Christina Ricci: I know I say mountain and kitten, and that's very Jersey, apparently.

Alison Stewart: Oh my gosh. Our entire listening area is now in love with you. They're feeling bond and kinship. You're listening to Christina Ricci. She's my guest. We're talking about season two of Yellow Jackets. We'll go to a quick break. We'll have more with Christina after a quick break, and we'll take more of your calls and texts, 212-433-9692.

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You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is New Jersey's own Christina Ricci. We're talking about the finale of Yellow Jackets this season. She, of course, plays Misty, who is both terrifying and innocuous, but mostly terrifying. One of the girls who was in the plane crash, and helps everyone survive and make it out by any means necessary. Let's talk about Misty's boyfriend. She meets her match in crime and romance. His name's Walter, and he's played by Elijah Wood and they meet on these amateur crime-solving threads. What do they see in each other?

Christina Ricci: Well she does call him her boyfriend at the end, but none of that has really been-- [laughs] I don't know.

Alison Stewart: Consummated?

Christina Ricci: Tied up yet. In the beginning, she's very put off by him. This is a person who's never had really anybody actually be interested in being close to her or her friend. She's always pursuing and always being rejected by friends.

In the beginning, what was so interesting-- Elijah's so good, and he is so funny in this part and so surprising. The character's so great and succinct, and I think that Misty is just completely taken aback by the whole thing and ends up actually treating him the way that she's normally treated by others, which was a fun thing to play because again, it all speaks to her maturity level. She's essentially a child, so emotionally stunted.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a clip from Yellow Jackets. This is where Walter and Misty are in a car driving together, hoping to track down fellow yellowjacket Natalie. Let's take a listen.

Misty: You can drop the whole thing now. You're one of those Yellowjackets obsessive, and I am honored that I seem to be your favorite Yellowjacket, but I am not going to tell you anything about what happened out there so you can just drop me off to the next town.

Walter: Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not what's happening. It's like I told you, I sought you out from Citizen Detective because I wanted to work with the brilliant investigative mind that is Agent African Gray, and because you dropped a Sweeney Todd reference in one of your posts. I don't care, no offense, because I'm sure it was a significant trauma, but I don't care that you're a Yellowjacket. That was like 30 years ago.

Misty: 25.

Walter: It's the least interesting thing about you.

Alison Stewart: Why does Misty ultimately let him in a little bit?

Christina Ricci: Well, I think she wants to be loved. She wants to be accepted. She wants a friend. She wants somebody who thinks that everything she does is great instead of the usual reaction. I think at one point in the season, all of the characters have these fantasy sequences and Misty has one in an isolation tank. Of course, every other character, these images are usually very disturbing, but Misty's is great. It's like a musical number, and her pet bird comes to life and tells her she's awesome, but basically, it's like the one moment she has of questioning herself and her subconscious very quickly says, "No, you are great. You deserve this. You should have a friend," and so she allows herself to have this friend. Who knows what will happen after the finale, though?

Alison Stewart: Our phone number--

Christina Ricci: Just because--

Alison Stewart: Yes, go.

Christina Ricci: Just because she ends up hurting her best friend again, which she also did in the past, which she's probably going to reinforce her feelings that she doesn't actually deserve friends.

Alison Stewart: Which gets us to our next text, which I was going to say has a big spoiler alert.

Christina Ricci: I'm sorry.

Alison Stewart: Oh no, you're fine. Which we have been dancing around, but I think we can get to it. This text says, "So while seeing Christina Ricci go from fishhead mermaids to Misty in Yellowjackets, who will become her anchor now that Nat is gone? Walter? Will Misty ever get over killing Nat, and in your mind, does she regret destroying the black box?"

Christina Ricci: Well, I think that Natalie wasn't really her anchor. Natalie was her thing to do. She's a person who always needs something to do. She has to be very proactive. She's hyper-vigilant in her refusal to dwell in the past or to feel bad about the past so she's one of those people that always needs to be doing. Natalie was great because she always had so many problems and Misty always had to fix something or do something or go after her, or chase her. I don't know exactly, because I'm not one of the writers. I don't know how she's going to react to Natalie's death. I don't think it's going to be good. I don't know if that'll change her behavior. I don't know if she'll all of a sudden need to do things on a crazy intense level or if she'll all of a sudden for the first time be rendered completely unable to function. I really don't know. I don't know what's going to replace Natalie for her.

Alison Stewart: Our phone number--

Christina Ricci: I don't know that she regrets destroying the black box, because I just don't really think Misty has ever really regretted much.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that's an interesting way of thinking about it, that she does what she does and then she moves on.

Christina Ricci: Exactly. Doing more allows her to keep her mind occupied so she never really has to think about what she's done. I just don't think that-- I know that she doesn't feel any shame about what happened to the wilderness the way the other characters do. She's not afraid of people finding out the way they are. I think she enjoys that because it allows her to come from a more powerful place than everybody else.

Alison Stewart: This is a text. "Hi, from the West Village. I've loved Christina since I was 13 and saw her in Mermaids. The final scene of Yellowjacket had me in tears because Misty seemed genuinely regretful. How emotional was playing that scene?"

Christina Ricci: It was awful. It was just awful. First of all, we shot that on the very last day of the season. Normally the last day of shooting everybody is celebratory and excited and giving each other gifts. Then if you have to do a scene like this, it's not nice. It's not fun because to get yourself to that place usually requires a lot of solitude and, I don't know, just being upset all day, but then aside from that, all of the adult cast, we've all become so incredibly close and especially with the cast members from Season One and Season Two, like Juliet, we all really bonded. We shot season one during COVID. We were in Canada, our family couldn't come to see us. We couldn't leave. We all really became very close. We've been through so much together, really like sisters. We've fought, we've made up, we've had the funniest, craziest night shoots that felt like they were never going to end.

We've had just some of the best times together and gone through some really terrible things together. Saying goodbye to Juliet or doing the scene where Juliet dies was really emotional and really painful and very upsetting and it was awful holding her. It really felt like you were acting out a death scene of one of your very, very good friends. It was really upsetting and we're devastated that she's not on the show anymore.

Alison Stewart: On the complete flip side, there is some dark humor in the show, some very funny moments. What do you think the role of humor is in Yellowjackets?

Christina Ricci: Well, I think it's definitely necessary given how dark so much the show is. They managed to so effectively create this tone that when you watch it, you feel so much dread. I think that the comedy is really necessary, but I also think that the kind of humor is really reflective of the kind of humor that comes from extreme trauma, that whole laugh to keep yourself from crying sort of thing that occurs. So much of the show is about trauma, about the effects of trauma on your brain, about what happens to you in the middle of these traumatic episodes, how you recover from them afterward, and this type of humor I think is a big part of that.

Alison Stewart: Season Two of Yellowjackets just wrapped. Christina Ricci, who plays Misty, has been my guest. Christina, thank you so much for making time.

Christina Ricci: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me this morning.

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