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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Thanks to everyone who called in and contributed to the WNYC Fall Pledge Drive. We so appreciate your support. If you missed any of our amazing segments during the Pledge Drive, we had drummer Stewart Copeland of The Police here, Leslie Odom Jr., Kara Young, and Kenny Leon from the Broadway show Purlie Victorious.

We also spoke to Alexander Payne, the director of the new movie The Holdovers, which got rave reviews over the weekend. We had that great Scorsese retrospective. You can catch all of those segments on demand on the All Of It podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Now let's get this hour of the live show started with some excellent cooking.

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When Erin French first opened her restaurant, The Lost Kitchen, it was quite literally in her kitchen. She began by hosting a small number of guests for a dinner party in her apartment in Freedom, Maine. Now her restaurant is one of the most in-demand in the country. You can only get a reservation by sending in a postcard and being chosen in a lottery. The lucky chosen experience an entire culinary event, a dinner that can last hours and be twelve courses or more.

Erin's success came from a lot of hard work, both on her business and herself. You may have heard about her best-selling memoir, Finding Freedom: A Cook's Story; Remaking a Life from Scratch that details a time when she struggled with addiction, parenthood issues, and difficult relationships. Her new cookbook, Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen is chock-full of recipes that celebrate gathering and the ways we make time special with family, chosen family, and friends. She'll be speaking with Ina Garten tonight at the 92nd Street Y at 7:00 PM. That event in person is sold out, but they are selling virtual tickets so you can stream it online. Erin joins me now in the studio to discuss her cookbook, Big Heart Little Stove. Welcome to the studio.

Erin French: Hi, Alison. Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Your dad had this diner growing up and you worked there as a young person. What did you learn about food and cooking that is still useful to you today?

Erin French: Well, it really came down to simplicity. Growing up in a diner, it's all about simple food. That's really something that I carried with me as a self-taught cook, that you really base it on ingredients and simple flavors.

Alison Stewart: I was just going to ask, one thing I really liked about the book is that some of the recipes are five or six ingredients. I didn't know if that was by design or just organically the kind of cook you are.

Erin French: Both. Organically, that is the kind of cook that I am, but I'm also an impatient cook. I don't have time for lots of ingredients and I really believe that if you're using the best ingredients you don't need to overdo it. You don't need to add lots of things to it. Just focus on those things and really make them shine.

Alison Stewart: What made you decide to go for it? I think a lot of people think, I'd love to start a restaurant. Sort of one of those dream things to do but then faced with the reality of doing it. What was the moment that made you think I'm going to really try this?

Erin French: Well, I was hitting a really difficult point in my own life. I was in a difficult marriage. I had really lost myself. For me, I felt something burning inside of me, and I couldn't quite tell what it was. The thing was, I had been running from food for a lot of my life because I grew up in a diner, and the last thing you want to do as a kid is be exactly that which you've grown up with. I finally gave in and said, this is what I know how to do so I'm just going to lean into it and see where it takes me.

Alison Stewart: What was the first inkling that you were good at?

Erin French: I think it was the very first supper club that I held and I couldn't believe that people actually showed up to come for dinner and they put in a small donation. I remember there was a gentleman who stood up at the end of the dinner and gave a toast to me and said like, "This is one of the best meals I've had in my life." It was just a simple dinner, but it just it warmed my heart because I realized that I had given in some way a gift even it was just a meal. It felt so good to give that that I didn't want to stop I wanted to keep going.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned most kids go the other direction from whatever their parents are doing. What direction did you think you wanted to go in before you decided, you know what, no, I have this skill, I have this talent?

Erin French: Well, I was burning to be a doctor and I grew up on a dirt road in the middle of nowhere Maine, and if anything, I just wanted to get to the city. I wanted to get away from everything that I knew because I thought I knew better. Hilariously, I find myself back living in my hometown, living the best life that I possibly could and doing what I was raised to do, which was, I'm in a restaurant, I grew up in a restaurant and it really seeped into my heart, and I'm embracing it and I love it.

Alison Stewart: Freedom, Maine, I mean that sounds like something from Amy Sherman-Palladino who named the town Freedom, Maine, and going to have a beautiful blonde chef. Tell us about Freedom, Maine.

Erin French: Small town, 719 people

Alison Stewart: That's small.

Erin French: We don't even have a general store anymore. We lost that this year. There's not much to it, the restaurant that's in downtown Freedom it's the only building downtown but it hasn't changed and that's part of the reason why I think I still love it. The dirt road I grew up on is still a dirt road and there's something that's kind of magical about that of having that space unchanged.

Alison Stewart: How did you come up with the system to have the lottery to come to the restaurant and why postcard? What do people write on the postcard?

Erin French: Everything. They're love letters. They're poetry. It's all across the board. They're just pieces of people's lives. Very personal. It was really by, not by design, but I had no choice. We were taking reservations by pen and paper first year, and then things started booking out. Then we said, "Okay, well, call us on the first day of spring." Then we crashed the phone lines, and I said, "I can't do this anymore. It's just insane, and we're never going to be able to fill the needs." It turned into, if anything, I wanted to slow it down. The only way I could think of to do that instead of going online was to just go to pen and paper and have it come by good old-fashioned post.

Alison Stewart: How did people first find out about the postcards? Was it the kind of thing where people called and you said, "Hey, postcards"? How did you get it out into the world that the postcard was going to be the way to contact The Lost Kitchen?

Erin French: Well, everyone was pretty miserable after the first year that we did phone calls because people were calling all in the middle of the night, getting busy signals for hours and hours on end. They were all relieved to see that we had changed the system. We just let everyone know and we had no idea what was going to happen. It was either going to kill the restaurant or it was going to make us be able to breathe a little more. I couldn't believe the first day I pulled up to the post office and walked inside and I said, "I'm here to pick up the mail." They said, "Did you bring a couple of vehicles?"

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: That's amazing. I think there's something so democratic about it.

Erin French: Yes, 100%. We've received so many of them. It's not like we sit there and we pick our favorites. We're just pulling and grabbing and that's the fun of it. You never know who you're going to get or where around the country they're coming from. Sometimes it's a blank postcard. Sometimes it's a story that someone pours their heart to you or does artwork. We've seen it all.

Alison Stewart: I feel like that's the next book. Postcards, or some sort of art show.

Erin French: Postcards from Freedom.

Alison Stewart: There you go. Erin French is my guest. The name of the new cookbook is Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen. When you sat down and thought, "My restaurant, what is the goal of my restaurant?" What is the goal of your restaurant?

Erin French: To make you feel at home. That was really my goal. It feels like a home when you walk in. The kitchen looks like a home kitchen. We built it that way because I am a home cook. I didn't go to culinary school. I don't have knife skills. I wanted it to feel like the place that you could come into and have a delicious meal and feel like it was okay to put your elbows on the table. I wanted you to feel warm not only from the food but the ambiance, the candlelight, the music, all of those things that just matter.

Alison Stewart: What do you think people misunderstand about hospitality?

Erin French: I think they forget about how much it really involves the environment and I think that's really about, we can get confused as cooks and we think our job is just to produce a meal, make the best meal we possibly can. In some instances, we're doing it for selfish purposes. We want to win awards, we just want to make the best meal and that's never the way that I've cooked. It's always been from, I want to give you a feeling, I want to take you in and I want to feed you something that's so delicious but I want to make you feel delicious because they will forget everything that they ate and drank and talked about but they won't forget that the way that they felt in that moment and that's what I'm trying to capture.

Alison Stewart: It's the Maya Angelou quote-

Erin French: Exactly.

Alison Stewart: -in your food.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: That's said, when you think about setting a table, what's important to have to make the table hospitable, to make the table a place where someone feels comfortable, not just anticipation about what's to come, because that's exciting, but just really have the comfort moment?

Erin French: For me, it's really about small details and a lot of them we have in our own homes and kitchens already. It's putting together something that maybe feels a little imperfect or mismatched, whether it's silverware that you've collected for a dollar apiece at tag sales, or maybe you brought out your grandmother's dishes and you're not just having them for Thanksgiving dinner that you're actually using that limoge or that's something that's been passed down for a Wednesday night supper. Really about just candles and feeling and music and all of those things so flowers, of course, too. Definitely flowers.

Alison Stewart: Where do you stand on whimsy?

Erin French: Whimsy? I mean, the healthy amount, but not too much. There's a little bit of a fine line.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Erin French. The name of the book is Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen. You touched on this, but let's go into it, ingredients. Very important to have great ingredients. You say with every word capitalized, "Do not skimp on buying good eggs."

Erin French: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How can the quality of the egg really impact a dish?

Erin French: Well, the flavor. Even coming down to the protein, sometimes you can't even poach a good egg if it doesn't have the right proteins to it. If you put an egg in there and it falls apart, you got a bad egg. It really does come down to ingredients. Especially when you're being a simple cook, because there is nowhere to hide. You can't hide anywhere. You have to have just the pristine ingredients. It could be one, or two, or three, but that's the difference between an incredible dish and not.

Alison Stewart: How does one tell a good egg from a bad egg?

Erin French: [laughs] Well, a couple of tricks. I'll tell you this, because I have 18 chickens at home who have taught me well, good eggs, if you put them in water, just room temperature water, they will stay at the bottom and they will stay on their side.

Alison Stewart: On the bottom, on their side.

Erin French: Bad eggs will float to the top. Eggs that are thinking about being towards the end of their life will stand up from top to bottom.

Alison Stewart: People are going to be running through the refrigerators right now.

Erin French: Checking to see?

Alison Stewart: Checking their eggs. I know I will when I go home. I am always curious about salt. One of the great joys of living in New York City is you have so many options, but you can stand in a salt aisle and think, "I don't know where to go." You are paralyzed.

Erin French: You only need two. There are only two that you need.

Alison Stewart: Tell me.

Erin French: Kosher salt and Maldon salt. One for cooking and then one for finishing. That's all you need.

Alison Stewart: The kosher salt, because?

Erin French: The kosher salt, the grains are just a little bit thicker, so you're not going to get an overly salty impact on your food. If you're brining or if you're just seasoning, the flakes, all the saline, it's perfect.

Alison Stewart: And the-

Erin French: Maldon.

Alison Stewart: -Maldon salt. When you stand there and the pink Himalayan looks beautiful in the grinder-

Erin French: Sure.

Alison Stewart: -and there's various sea salts, I'm just never quite sure.

Erin French: If you want to go there, go there, but all you need are two salts and you're like, "Keep it simple."

Alison Stewart: Okay. We talked about keeping things simple. You do have a suggestion here which might sound daunting to people and not simple, making your own crackers. Give me the pitch on making my own crackers.

Erin French: It's for special occasions. It's for those moments when you want to just show that you really leaned into it. They're not that hard. It's really just making a simple dough. I like to use a pastry roller, which you can roll them out really simply and you can get a really nice texture. You're going to have that look and feel of that you care that much to make someone crackers. If you're just having a cheese plate, then you can show that that's your intention and that's the love that you are giving to them with that simple bit.

Alison Stewart: Okay, somebody is like, "I'm going to try it. I'm going to try the crackers," what is one of those things you wish someone had told you before you first tried to make a cracker?

Erin French: Be patient and don't be in a bad mood when you make them because they'll turn out tough.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about that. A bad mood, how does that transfer into your crackers?

Erin French: Now, especially if you're baking or you're making pastry, can you imagine putting that force and you're just going there? You're going to have a tough dough.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Erin French: You have to just take a breath, be soft, be thinking good thoughts, and that's how you can make really good flaky pastry.

Alison Stewart: I like that idea. That idea of you bring something to the food.

Erin French: Yes. Definitely.

Alison Stewart: You can transfer?

Erin French: 100%. Food is love. People can feel it and they'll feel what you put into it.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's talk about snacks and appetizers. We can make our crackers, we have our crackers, anywhere on the internet somebody is always making a charcuterie board. Your thoughts? How do you feel about charcuterie boards?

Erin French: Sure. I'm all about nibble boards. I'm more into nibbles. It doesn't have to be charcuterie. Let's just call it nibbles.

Alison Stewart: Nibbles. What would I find on a nibble board? An Erin French nibble board.

Erin French: Well, it changes all the time. It could be depending on the season. There's always olives and nuts because you can always have those in your pantry and a wedge of cheese, but maybe it's the height of summer and you could have some pickled vegetables that you just quickly pickled. Even just some sliced perfect cucumbers with some flaky salt. You know that feeling when you get that fresh summer cucumber and it just tastes so divine? You could just do that. Really anything. Fresh berries in the summertime.

Alison Stewart: All right, I see where you're going with your nibble boards. Oysters, is obviously something near and dear to your heart, near and dear to New Yorkers as well. New Yorkers love their oysters. What should I look out for when I'm buying oysters? Let's start there.

Erin French: Well, here is the great thing about oysters, they are very resilient. You really just want to trust your fishmonger. Oysters can survive for months on end without even being fed, so think about what you like in an oyster. For me, I like petite oysters. A lot of people, especially if you're hosting, if you're serving oysters, don't go with big oysters because you really want to be thoughtful to your guests. You may have people who haven't tried them before, so thinking about smaller oysters and something that's really close by as well.

Alison Stewart: What about crudo? There are all kinds of crudo recipes in here. What's a good one to start with? Let's start there.

Erin French: Scallops would be the easiest because then you're not dealing with really a whole piece of fish. You could just get a couple of scallops at your fishmonger. Super fresh, and all you have to do is slice them, a little bit of lemon, a little bit of olive oil, I like to put some pickled shallots on top, you could dress it up with some fresh herbs, and it's just simple and delicious.

Alison Stewart: Ooh, what do the pickled shallots do? That's interesting.

Erin French: That just adds a little bit of that bright flavor. People are going to be like, "Oh, what is this?" You just macerate them in a little rice wine vinegar, it softens the flavor. It just adds a little bit of tiny little bit of crunch there.

Alison Stewart: Then what is an appetizer that you think is a little challenging that you've put in the book just for the person who is good around the kitchen?

Erin French: A challenging appetizer. I don't know if there's any real challenging ones in there. We don't want to challenge people too much. The appetizers are the ones where you want to keep them simple for people because you're going to be busy with the challenging entrées.

Alison Stewart: What about a dip for those crackers that we've made? [laughs]

Erin French: We've got-

Alison Stewart: The crackers were the challenge. [laughs]

Erin French: -so many. There's a farmhouse dip. Just some fresh cheese with herbs is really delicious. Caramelized onions, really folded in well, would go great with the crackers.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting as you're talking about herbs and all, I was reading recently a piece that was describing how we all need to go through our spice racks and do an edit. That maybe people have gotten a little overexcited about too many spices. First of all, I'm curious what you think about that. Is there such a thing as too many spices?

Erin French: Well, you might be totally offended by me. I don't cook with a lot of spices. I think it's because I'm really cooking with whatever is fresh at that moment. Herbs, really into herbs. Give me all the herbs in the world, can never have enough herbs. Really for me, it's salt, it's pepper, it's olive oil, it's herbs. Those are the things that I really go to.

Alison Stewart: Well, that sounds like you might be part of the school of have a--

Erin French: Clean up the spice drawer?

Alison Stewart: Yes, have a simple spice drawer and concentrate on other things.

Erin French: Mine's salt and butter. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Nothing wrong with either of those. My guest is Erin French, the name of the book is Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen. We're finally getting a little bit of a chill here in New York so we can talk about soups and stews, and people won't think we're crazy. Toasted coriander and carrot soup. Why do coriander and carrot work together?

Erin French: It was an accident for me when I discovered them. I was having a panic moment in my own kitchen where I had made a soup that didn't work out, and so I happened to have coriander spice sitting around in my spice drawer. I gave it a whirl, and it really worked together. With a drizzle of honey, it just brings up that flavor. There's something toasty to the coriander, you have the sweetness of the carrots, and it's like that match made in heaven, when you found each other, you knew you were meant to be together.

Alison Stewart: Do I need anything special to make this kind of soup? Whenever I'm thinking about soups, I'm like, "I don't have an immersion blender." Do I have to have that?

Erin French: I have very few special tools, but I will say, I really do love my Vitamix, and I saved up for it for a very long time. I do use it and I've made sure that I do use it.

Alison Stewart: That's one of the pieces of equipment that you like having?

Erin French: Worth the splurge.

Alison Stewart: Worth the splurge. What other pieces of equipment do you think? Also, New Yorkers have very small kitchens, so simplicity is key in many ways.

Erin French: I do love my food processor. That's a great one. You can get smaller ones too so they can be apartment-size.

Alison Stewart: You have a recipe that's your mom's recipe. Lamb and white bean stew. Tell me about your first experience with this, when your mom made it.

Erin French: I will never forget. A cold, snowy, mean day, and my dad had set up our ice shack out on Freedom Pond. We would go out there on Sundays to go spend the day ice fishing. They'd get a little wood stove going, and my mom brought out this pot of white bean stew that she put on top of the stove to warm up. You're out there, it's cold, you're fishing all day, and you go inside with mugs full of this rich, and meaty, and just this bean stew. It warmed me in that moment. That's the thing about food, it wasn't just that dish. It was the way that I could feel my mom in there and how it was warming me up, not only my belly but my soul in that way with that delicious mom-made stew.

Alison Stewart: How do you keep the meat from being either stringy or tough?

Erin French: Well, the great thing about the shanks is that they're really forgiving. Even if you're not the best cook, this is an easy one to really still have a nice tender stew.

Alison Stewart: Do you have to have seafood because you're from Maine?

[laughter]

Erin French: Well, me, yes.

Alison Stewart: I say cheekily. Of course, you're going to have seafood recipes because you're from Maine. A chowder of mussel with bacon, leak, and then this was more interesting with lime. I've heard bacon and leak before in a chowder, but lime. What does the citrus do?

Erin French: Well, you just want to give it that little bit of pop of flavor and acid really works here. I just thought lime would be a little bit different. If you're having mussels, I think lime just goes so much better with that flavor. When I tried it as I was recipe testing this, it was, yes, so much better than lemon. Sometimes think outside that lemon box and try lime

Alison Stewart: So you did try it with lemon first?

Erin: I did.

Alison Stewart: What was the differentiation?

Erin: Slight, but just that pop of unexpected. You're expecting lemon with chowder. You may not be expecting lime, and that's where that dish might stand out.

Alison Stewart: Does chowder have a definition? Does something have to be part of it to be a chowder?

Erin: Definitely cream and butter in my book, and potatoes. Yes. Some people make chowders in different ways but as a Mainer very much cream, butter, potatoes, seafood. Very simple. My dad used to make it all the time in our diner, and he would just throw it in the microwave, and it'd be ready in 30 seconds. So this is the updated version.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Erin French. The name of the book is Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen. She will be speaking with Ina Garten tonight at the 92nd Street Y at 7:00. The In-person event is sold out, but there are virtual tickets available. We're approaching Thanksgiving, so I feel like I need to ask you about a couple of sides. If you were going to recommend something from your book to bring as a side, that would be a crowd-pleaser.

Erin: Okay. I have to say the squash rings, although you might have to do a little of the cooking wherever you're going.

Alison Stewart: Okay.

Erin: But worth it, and it's surprising. They're fried, they're stuffed with like a fruit, a fresh pair of salad. There's all sorts of goodies in there, and they're very different but very autumnal.

Alison Stewart: Perfect potato purée.

Erin: That's the one, too.

Alison Stewart: That's another one.

Erin: That's the one you can pack and bring.

Alison Stewart: Okay. Tell us about getting that texture right.

Erin: The other tool that I really love is I have a fine mesh sieve. Otherwise, you could call it a chinois if you wanted to be very French and fancy. It's a little extra force and weight that you have to put into these potatoes. It pushes them through so they're silky and they're delicious. It's definitely a tool that's worth it.

Alison Stewart: We've talked about sides, we've talked about appetizers. When you think about the role and soups, when you think about the role of the main, what is a dish? What is the role of the main dish?

Erin: It's the reason why everyone's showing up, right? This is the one where you sweat about, and you'd be like, "No pressure. Everyone's coming to dinner. It's the main event." This is the one when I start thinking about menus, I base everything around what that dish is going to be for the evening.

Alison Stewart: If someone said, "You know what, I don't really like Turkey, Erin. Thanksgiving is coming and I'm doing a Friendsgiving. We don't really have to be traditional. What would you suggest replacing the Turkey with?"

Erin: Do you like lamb?

Alison Stewart: I do.

Erin: All right. Juniper and rosemary-crusted lamb would be really delicious. Are you a chicken fan?

Alison Stewart: Sure. I like food.

Erin: Then make the pickle brine chicken, so easy and so good.

Alison Stewart: I brined chicken for the first time the other day, and it made a huge difference.

Erin: Life changing, right?

Alison Stewart: I just thought like, "I'm going to give this a shot."

Erin: So easy.

Alison Stewart: It made a huge difference.

Erin: Yes. Night and day. Everyone should be brining chicken all the time.

Alison Stewart: As you've mentioned, you love butter, which is going to be our segue into dessert. A glazed butter cake. Okay. Let's talk, if you're making this, when do you serve it? Do you have to serve this right away? Is this something you can make ahead, or what is the lifespan of the glazed butter cake?

Erin: Oh, yes. If you make it, it probably will not last a day. If it does, it makes a delicious tea cake or breakfast cake the next morning. You can make it ahead. It's so moist because you're glazing it with this thick glaze with some butter and a little bit of vanilla and sugar. A little bit of almond extract, and then you just glaze this baby. She's just glistening like a Krispy Kreme donut. Slice it, serve it with a little bit of whipped cream and fresh berries. That's the most simple and most satisfying grandma dessert.

Alison Stewart: We're going to bookend it by coming back to a recipe from your dad's diner, nutmeg diner donuts. This time of year donuts are the best things ever. How do you get the density right, and what does the nutmeg do? People think of cinnamon cider donuts, but this is nutmeg donuts.

Erin: Yes. Well, baking is always precise. It's really about finding-- That's why you want to--

Alison Stewart: The chemistry.

Erin: Yes. It is chemistry, and it's not quite as freeform. Some people are bakers, some people are cooks, some people could be both. Baking really is about following a recipe that has been tried and true. Then the nutmeg for me, that really came from a memory of the first time I walked into my dad's diner. My grandmother was making nutmeg donuts. She was pulling them hot and fresh out of the fryolator, and she gave me a bite. I knew in that moment my life had changed. It's true because that was the first day I stepped into that diner. That's the first day I fell in love with restaurants. Now here I am.

Alison Stewart: What is a recipe in this book that I've not asked you about or no one has asked you about that you just want to put out into the world for people to know about?

Erin: The rose panna cotta.

Alison Stewart: Rose panna cotta. Tell me more.

Erin: It's really about just taking a twist on like a really perfect panna cotta, but making it really ladylike. Really special. If you're serving this, you can make it the day ahead. You can serve it at a dinner party, and it's done, and it's ready, and you're not running around the kitchen. You can be with your guests, and they're going to bite into it, and they're going to go--

Alison Stewart: What's that flavor?

Erin: It's just a little something different. I'm all about getting flowers and wherever you can get flowers, so if I can work it into a custard or a cream, I've got you.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is Big Heart Little Stove: Bringing Home Meals & Moments from The Lost Kitchen. My guest has been Erin French. Erin, thank you for coming by today, and have a great event tonight.

Erin: Thanks, Alison. Always fun to talk about food.

 

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