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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Author and comedian Lane Moore's latest book is titled You're Not The Only One F*cking Up: Breaking the Endless Cycle of Dating Mistakes. It arrives just in time for Valentine's Day. It takes on apps, awkward in-person encounters, what is or isn't a red flag, dating fatigue, and the societal pressure to find the one. In the introduction, Lane writes, "Dating truly can feel like a low-key gambling addiction. You don't eat or sleep, you drink caffeine and you stay up all night because you're always playing to win. Don't stop rolling the dice because something better is coming."

Lane Moore is the host of the relationship podcast, I Thought It Was Just Me, and the creator of Tinder Live comedy show. If you haven't seen it, there'll be a special Valentine's Day edition next Thursday, February 15th at TV Eye in Ridgewood at 8:00 PM. The last time she joined us on the show we had this great conversation about her book, You'll Find Your People: How to Make Meaningful Friendships as an Adult. Lane, welcome back.

Lane Moore: Thanks for having me. Always good to be here.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we would love to hear from you. Are you dating right now? What are some automatic deal breakers for you? How often have you left a first date thinking, "I hope I don't ever see that person again"? Maybe you have a strategy for dating that you would like to share with the class. In real life or via dating apps, which way do you like to meet people? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We're talking dating for the rest of the hour. You can call in and join us on air. You can also text to us at that number, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Social media is available if you'd like to remain anonymous, @AllOfItWNYC. Want to hear about how dating is going for you.

I do want to set the stage for people about you've been in this space for a long time, since 2014, you've been doing Tinder Live, it's a comedy show exploring the world of Tinder. Will you explain the show a little bit to folks?

Lane Moore: Absolutely. I go on my own dating app on a projector screen, so we're all sitting there witnessing my personal dating experience of this. The profiles come up on screen and the audience votes whether I swipe right or left. I always like to mention, if people haven't been to Tinder Live, the show is known for being exceptionally kind. We're only swiping right and talking to the weirdest, wildest profiles that you would never swipe right on, and diving straight into the chaos. It's super interactive and totally improvised and really cathartic for anybody who's ever used a dating app and has been like, "This is exhausting, this is overwhelming, why is this happening?" Making comedy out of that.

Alison Stewart: How has the landscape changed since 2014, the app landscape?

Lane Moore: Honestly, the only way I think it's changed is that more people know about it and have experienced exhaustion from it. I don't think the landscape has changed too much. I just think that there's more people on it. You have people on it now who maybe when the apps first came out, they were married and now they're divorced and now they're entering. I hear from a lot of people after Tinder Live shows that are like, "I just got on the dating apps after being married for 25 years. This is totally new for me." It's an experience that a lot of people who were married for a long time have never had before. Whereas people in their teens and 20s are just experiencing this that are very, very familiar. It's interesting how it's grown in that way, where you just have people who are like, "What even is this?"

Alison Stewart: You have a side hustle where you help people with their dating app profiles. That's your business, so I don't want to give away your business, but if you would share one thing people should not put on their dating profile.

Lane Moore: Absolutely. I love doing that because I genuinely believe, and this is so much of what Tinder Live is also, is that a lot of people don't know how they're being perceived. That's really what it is. I don't think that people are just inherently bad. You don't know how you're being perceived. One of the things that I would really advise people not to do is don't yell in your profile. It might seem like, of course, I'm not going to yell in my profile. The number of profiles I see yelling, specifically for men who are like, "First of all, no single moms. Don't be ugly. You better shave." What is this? How is this good put to start off on? No one's liking that, Jeff. Just stop yelling in your profile.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Lane Moore. The name of her new book is You're Not The Only One F*cking Up: Breaking the Endless Cycle of Dating Mistakes. Listeners, we want to hear from you. Are you dating right now? What are some automatic deal breakers for you? Have you left the first date thinking, "I'd love to see that person again," or, "I never want to see that person again"? Maybe you have a strategy for dating or a strategy for the apps you'd like to share with team All Of It. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC is our phone number. You can call in and join us on air, or you can text to us at that number or hit us up on social media, @AllofItWNYC.

You know what? It's interesting. People have been inside for a while. I think, I can't remember who the comedian said, that people have forgotten how to public, how to be in public. Meeting people in real life was always awkward. It's sometimes even more awkward now. Let's put it this way, when do you know if somebody is actually flirting with you? Sounds winky emoji. We can do it in text because we can wink and eggplant, but in real life, what are some good flirting signals?

Lane Moore: It's so hard to know because everybody's different. I know, for me, sometimes people think I'm flirting with them when I'm really just being nice or I'm anxious. I think that happens for a lot of women where it's like, "Oh, we're just trying to be nice to you and not get murdered." Then some men are like, "This is flirting."

I think if somebody, like a lot of eye contact, because most people don't make a lot of eye contact. I think a lot of eye contact, a lot of times, it's body language or like if someone's directly facing you, if that's really it, if they're saying things that a friend really probably wouldn't say, there's no surefire way, but I think those are good things. Also, you can throw the ball back a little bit and try your own flirting. If they pick up on it, great. If they brush past it or they awkwardly shove it away, okay, I guess they weren't. I think some of it is these nonverbal cues, looking at the verbal cues that we have, and then throwing the ball back and seeing if they kind of take the bait.

Alison Stewart: In your first chapter, you focus on the idea of spotting red flags, the signal that says, "Hey, stop, walk away slowly, do not look back," but there's also conflicting messages about red flags. That some things that are traditionally thought of red flags maybe should be rethought. The one that I thought was interesting, and I've changed my mind on this one, I'm with you, it's a red flag if he's not close to his mom or it's a red flag if they're not close with their family. This doesn't have to be a red flag.

Lane Moore: No, it really doesn't. I totally understand why we think this probably is a red flag, particularly because this example is often used for men. We want to know, really, it's not really about his relationship with his mom. We want to know that they have good relationships with women. We want to know that they respect women.

We're trying to figure out if this person is safe, if this person is good, if this will be a good partner, but the thing we have to remember is that not everybody is lucky enough to be blessed with a really close, wonderful family. Maybe his mom was not the best mom. Maybe him and his mom are estranged, and there's a possibility that he actually might be a better partner because he was able to sever contact with somebody who was hurtful to him. Maybe that experience gave him more empathy. I don't think we can write someone off because they didn't get lucky enough to get the world's best parents.

Alison Stewart: You give an example of what could have been a red flag that could have tanked a relationship, but then the couple actually ended up getting married, had been married for more than a decade. Brian was waiting for his date to show up and he was on his phone. What happened?

Lane Moore: Yes. He was on his phone and she was like, "All right, what is this? You keep looking at your phone. Obviously, you don't want to be here." He was just kind of anxious and was just kind of kept checking his phone nervously and realized, "You know what, you're right, I'll put it away." Now they're married, it worked out, but if she had instead been like, "Forget it," hadn't said anything, hadn't spoken up, and like a lot of us would have, and gone home and been like, "Oh, he was on his phone the whole time. What a jerk, these men are trash."

If she had done that which, would have been fair, there wouldn't have been this moment to-- I think it is fair to call people out. However, when you see stuff like that, just to see because maybe they're just nervous, maybe they didn't even think about it, maybe they're not even aware of it, and this could be a really great person, or you call them out, they get defensive and weird, great. Bye.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some calls. Amy calling in from White Plains. Hi, Amy.

Amy: Hi, how are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing great.

Amy: Good. My one comment is I've been separated for a divorce for 13 years. Very happy by myself, great group of friends, but my kids were like, "Mom you got to date." I did go on to a dating site for a while. My question is this, how--

Alison Stewart: Oh wait we lost.

Lane Moore: Oh, it cut out. The question.

Amy: I'm 54 years old, but they're all shirtless and they're taking pictures of themselves without shirt in the mirror, and I'm like, "Their boobs are bigger than mine?" I'm like, "Why do they think this is attractive?" Anyway, well, I was not very successful on dating sites, and I'm okay being by myself, being single. Anyway, that was my comment. We just would crack up with these guys that thought that was somehow, "Hey," like I was going to be turned on by that. Not happening.

Alison Stewart: The shirt off in the mirror selfie. I'm guessing, Lane, when you tell people about their dating app profiles, that's not on the list.

Lane Moore: That's not on the list. I have to tell you, that is so much of what Tinder Live is, is that I think a lot of people who have not been on dating apps, they don't know what men's profiles are like. It really is. I'm sure you've seen this as well, it's not only the shirtless photo. They're like, head is cut out, you can't even see their head. It's just a topless man and then the camera flash is in the mirror. It looks like a crime scene photo. Of course, you're not turned on by that. This is not someone's ideal self. This is not what we're looking to see.

Alison Stewart: Got a text, "I hate online dating but I'd rather pull out my own eyeballs and approach someone and ask for a date. There's a vibe you can't pick up from an online profile. I go on lots of dates with perfectly fine people, but the vibe just isn't right." Someone else texted, "My favorite line from personal profile, I love fine dining like Olive Garden." Then someone else wrote, "Women who are dating should join the Are We Dating the Same Guy NYC Facebook group." I think that one's a public service. Let's talk to Herschel from Morristown. Hi, Herschel. Thank you for calling in.

Herschel: Hi. I'm older, I'm dating, and I've met some wonderful women online, but I do have an observation. Everyone has a list, but when you're dating a widower, they have a good list, a widow. They have a good list. If you don't check all the boxes on the very first date, that's okay. You've got more dates to check all the boxes. When you date a divorcee, they've got a list, but it's a bad list. It's a list of things that remind them of their ex. You check one of those boxes on the first date and you are out. It's done. Everybody's got a list but they process it completely different.

Alison Stewart: Herschel, thank you for calling in. What are the pitfalls of a list, Lane?

Lane Moore: It's so tough because this is the thing. A lot of times, we think we know exactly what we want in a person, but sometimes the person you fall for is completely different. That's not saying that you should throw all of your wants and needs out the window. Absolutely not. Sometimes we're like, "I want someone to look like this, act like this. I want them to love this genre of movies."

Sometimes you meet someone and you're like, "I want someone who loves horror movies." They don't like horror movies. They think they're scary, but maybe they watch them with you to be supportive. Look at what really matters on that list because sometimes a lot of things we put on that list, our person's not going to have and it's not going to matter. We want a good person. Remember that more than anything, really.

Alison Stewart: My guess is Lane Moore, she's the author of You're Not the Only One F*cking Up: Breaking the Endless Cycle of Dating Mistakes. Of course, you can catch her Tinder Live performance. That is next Thursday, February 15th at TV Eye in Ridgewood at 8:00 PM. You also write about falling in love with potential. One of the people that you profile in your book is a 43-year-old woman from Brooklyn named Sabrina, who was about to move to Ireland to be with someone who she'd never met. She fell in love online. When did the fantasy romance, not romance fantasy, she was really feeling it, start to fall apart, and what can we learn from Sabrina?

Lane Moore: I think what happened with Sabrina is something that happens with so many of us, even if they're not international, even if they live in a different borough than us. We are taking these little conversations that we have, and so many of us fill in the blanks in our own mind. Oh, they did this. I'm going to assume that they're this wonderful person. We start to build up because we get so excited about a new relationship that we're like, "Oh, I bet he'll do this. I bet this will happen and our relationship will go like this."

We don't stop to look at what they're actually giving us because we've created this person who is maybe 10% who they actually are and 90% our own hopes and dreams. So many of us are so conditioned to like, "You better find somebody soon," that we want this person who is in front of us right now to be the one, even if they're not. Really look at what they're actually giving you.

I think also for so many of us, particularly women, we spend so much time wanting to be chosen, wanting to be really good that we're not actually looking at what the other person's giving us because we just want them to choose us, and we need to remember that we need to choose them back and choose the real them that they're giving us, not the one that we're hoping for in our head who might not exist.

Alison Stewart: Suzanne has a success story she'd like to share. Hi, Suzanne. Thank you for calling in.

Suzanne: Hey, Alison, big, huge fan of your show. Thank you so much for taking my call. Two things I just want to say, don't give up to your fellow listeners who are on dating profiles and think they're never going to meet their person because that person is definitely out there. I never ever thought that I would meet anyone on a dating profile, and I met my wife, and she is the most amazing thing that has ever happened to me.

That leads to my second point. Let someone else take the driver's seat of your dating profile. I also never wanted to go on a first date with my wife, but my coworker took over my OkCupid profile and said, "I think she's going to be really cool." I said, "Okay, I'll do it." We've been married-- well, actually we just celebrated our nine-year anniversary of our first date. Good things happen. Keep going.

Alison Stewart: Suzanne, thank you for calling in. Love that story. Glad you're so very happy. There are some very funny, you give some really good advice in the book. We can learn from some of the people that you profile in the book. There was this one thing that cracked me up and freaked me out a little bit about someone going on a date with somebody who had three names, his real name, his Brooklyn name, and his sex name.

Lane Moore: Yes. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: How did that work? What was the point of that?

Lane Moore: If I remember correctly, this was a person who was on some of the more adults matching sites where they'll put some more kink stuff on there, but he wasn't forthright about it, which is the problem. You could do whatever you want. I really believe you could be as weird as you want but you have to be upfront with a potential partner about it. It shouldn't be like a Law and Order episode where they're just uncovering clues every time they hang out with you. That's not going to build trust.

Really, I think maybe a lot of people don't want to show their true self because they're worried they're going to be judged. Look, if it's the right person for you, they're going to be like, "Ooh, you've got aliases and you were honest about it and you explained why you have aliases." I think almost as long as it's not really harmful or violent, any amount of weird, you're allowed to be, and the right person will be cool with it as long as you're open and honest.

Alison Stewart: Someone has a text and we have about a minute and a half left who says, "I really want to meet someone in real life in middle age. Ideas welcome. Anonymous in Brooklyn." Any thoughts based on the work you've been doing for the past eight years?

Lane Moore: Really just being more open because a lot of people want to give you like, "Oh, go do these specific things." Really, so much of dating and things like that is luck and timing. I would say two things. Just being more open where you are. Being more open to talking to people when you're out. I know so often, and especially for New Yorkers, we don't really want to talk to anybody when we're out, but there's so many people around us and when you see an attractive stranger or whatever, instead of thinking, "Oh, maybe I'll match with them on an app," what if you actually talk to them? Just give it a shot because you never know. What if it works out great? That's really the path we have to go through.

Then the other thing that's so much of what I want to enforce in this book is that if you're tired and you're like, "I don't really want to go out," or, "I'm too nervous, or whatever, sometimes it's okay to rest and not put this pressure on ourselves that if we're not out there trying and hustling and going and talking to every single person, we're never going to meet our person. I don't believe in that. I really believe whoever is meant for you will find you, even if you need to sit at home for the next six weeks when you're ready to emerge, so will they be, and then you'll meet them at the exact perfect moment.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is You're Not the Only One F*ckin Up: Breaking the Endless Cycle of Dating Mistakes. Lane Moore will be at TV Eye in Ridgewood at 8:00 PM for her Tinder Live special the day after Valentine's Day. Lane, thank you so much for joining us and taking our listeners' calls and texts.

Lane Moore: Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: There's more All Of It on the way. We'll talk about the play Between Two Knees now playing at the Perelman Performing Arts Center. That's happening right after the news.

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