[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. I still do have a cult. On today's show, we have the team behind the new off-Broadway musical, The Connector composer Jason Robert Brown, director Daisy Prince, and Star Ben Levi Ross, Shona Heath and James Price are the Oscar-nominated set designers, production designers behind Poor Things.

They'll join us to discuss how they built that fantastical world for that film, and we'll celebrate the immigrant history of American traditional music with the group American Patchwork Quartet. That is the plan. Let's get this started with The Public Song Project.

[music]

For some Valentine's Day is a moment to stop and appreciate the love in your life. For others, it's a day that brings on the blues. Luckily, there are about 100 years' worth of recorded music to satisfy both sides of that divide. Maybe today is the day that you write a love song for some inspiration. You could join the second edition of The Public Song Project for this year's public song project we're asking you to reimagine works in the public domain from the 1920s. According to copyright law, that's the decade from which most materialists recently entered the public domain. It also just happens that 1924 was the year WNYC started broadcasting.

As the station gears up to celebrate a centennial, we're inviting you to celebrate the music and art that was in the air and on the air around that time. Now for more information on the project, go to wnyc.org/publicsongproject. That's wnyc.org/publicsongproject. Look, you do not have to be a professional to submit to the project. That said, your work could be featured alongside some real pros like Béla Fleck, Rhiannon Giddens, and many, many more, including the person who was supposed to be our guest today, but who literally had to cancel about 10 minutes ago, singer-songwriter Billie Marten.

Apparently, she's had terrible car troubles, and this is quoting from her people, "Is on a ferry right now trying to make it to her show tonight." Billie, we wish you well. We wish you luck. Hope to have you back on the show. We do have the song that Billie reimagined for The Public Song Project. This is Billie Marten with Baby Won't You Please Come Home by Charles Warfield and Clarence Williams, most famously recorded by Bessie Smith.

[MUSIC - Billie Marten: Baby Won't You Please Come Home]

I've got the blues, I feel so lonely

I'll give the world if I could only

Make you understand

It surely would be grand

I'm gonna telephone my baby

Ask him won't you please come home

'Cause when you're gone

I'm worried all day long

Baby won't you please come home

Baby won't you please come home

I have tried in vain

Evermore to call your name

When you left you broke my heart

That will never make us part

Every hour of the day

You can hear me say

Baby won't you please come home, I mean

Baby won't you please come home

Alison Stewart: That was Billie Marten with her cover of Baby Won't You Please Come Home Recorded by Bessie Smith in 1923. Each day this week, we'll premier a new Public Song Project submission from a musician friend of WNYC. So far, we've heard from Arturo O'Farrill, Low Cut Connie, and today Billie Marten. In addition to hearing their choices, we're having conversations to put those songs in context. Given Billie's choice, and since it's Valentine's Day, today, we're going to dive into the history of love songs and songs about heartbreak. I'm joined again by Anna Celenza, professor of Musicology at the Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins University. Anna, thanks for joining us again.

Anna Celenza: Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, while we talk to Anna about the history of love songs and popular music, we want to hear from you. What is your favorite song about love? What is your favorite song about a broken heart? Our phone lines are open, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on the air. Feel free to sing or you can text to us at that number as well. Our social media's available too @allofitwnyc. Your favorite song about love, maybe your favorite song about heartbreak on this Valentine's Day. Anna, we just heard, Baby Won't You Please Come Home, Billie Marten performing it. How much do we know about its writers, Clarence Williams and Charles Warfield?

Anna Celenza: Well, I think Charles Warfield was probably feeling some heartbreak when this song came out because he's really the songwriter. He was African American songwriter and he went to Clarence Williams, who was another African American who had set up a publishing company and by 1920 was the leading Black publisher of music in the United States. What became common practice then was that oftentimes publishers would say, "I'll publish your song if I get to put my name on as a co-writer, and then take a piece of that pie," as the royalties come in. That's what probably happened with this song.

Alison Stewart: Musically, how does that song fit in with what was popular in the 1920s?

Anna Celenza: Well, it's a great example of women singing the blues coming up. In 1920, you have Mamie Smith who recorded a song called Crazy Blues, and it takes off. It's just this national phenomenon and everybody wants to hear it. What you see is right around 1920, '21, '22, you have a lot of publishers who are looking for blues songs to publish, and also a lot of promoters in Vaudeville in various theaters record companies who are wanting to find Black female blues singers. The blues before that were often associated with male voices.

This is a new phenomenon, and these were a lot of heartbreak love songs that these women were singing. Bessie Smith makes this song, Baby Won't You Please Come Home, a huge hit in her recordings in 1923.

Alison Stewart: We've noticed that almost all the songs we've received from friends of WNYC for the project so far about broken hearts and being separate or separated from your love, what was going on in music and in culture in the 1920s that people seem so blue about love?

Anna Celenza: Well, I know it's one of those things. I think we can all enjoy sad songs, even when we're sort of doing well. [chuckles] Granted there were some things to be blue about. One of the biggest would be a lot of folks were separated at least with World War I up to 1919 but with migration, especially among a lot of African American families, there were, as some of the family would travel north and some would stay in the south.

With the blues, there's a lot of linkage there but to be honest there's something about being able to experience sorrow in song that can be relieving. I think especially in New York, this is when New York City is really exploding. The skyscrapers are going up and you've got all these new forms of transportation and businesses taking off, and it was a very energetic, hectic time. A love song that's a sad one, gives you a moment to just sort of settle in and relax and bring in those emotions in a way that an upbeat, happy love song doesn't.

Alison Stewart: We got text Someone That I Used to Love by Natalie Cole, favorite love song from Helen from Bergen County. Let's talk to Scott, calling in from Brooklyn. Hi Scott.

Scott: Hey Alison. How you doing?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. Thank you for calling.

Scott: My favorite sad song is Lush Life by Billie Strayhorn because it's not just about a broken heart, it's really about giving up. If you're going to wallow or immerse yourself into a sad song, let's go all the way that life is gloomy. He's sitting at a bar, and that he sees no hope [coughs] but nevertheless, it's a beautiful song.

Alison Stewart: Why do you like listening to a sad song, Scott?

Scott: It's cathartic. It's almost like if you're down, let's go all the way and just immerse ourselves in it and know that you'll come out the other side, to me, there's something very cathartic about sad songs.

Alison Stewart: Scott, thanks for calling in. We actually have Lush Life.

Scott: Oh, thank you.

Alison Stewart: We actually have Lush Life queued up sung by Sammy Davis Jr this time, let's take a listen.

[MUSIC - Sammy Davis Jr.: Lush Life]

I used to visit all these very gay places

Those come what may places

Where one relaxes on the axis of the wheel of life

To get a feel of life

From jazz and cocktails

The girls I knew had sad and sullen grey faces

With distant gay traces

That used to be there

You could see where they've been washed away

By too many through the day

Twelve o'clock tales

Then you came along

With your siren song

To tempt me to madness

I thought for a while that your--

Alison Stewart: Ah, that's going out to you, Scott in Brooklyn. Let's talk to Charlotte from Larchmont. Hi Charlotte.

Charlotte: Hi Alison. Gosh, I feel so lucky. I get on the show all the time.

[laughter]

Charlotte: I listen during my lunch hour and I love you so much and your whole show and I hope you feel better.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Charlotte: It's hard to pick a favorite love song, but of course, you say 'ove song and I thought of Love Song by Sara Bareilles which I love, and I also love her, and I like to sing that song. I'd love to sing a little bit of it for you, although I'm super nervous now that I agreed to do this.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] All right, we'll give you-- We'll put a time limit just so you feel good about it. How does 20 seconds?

Charlotte: I'll just do the chorus.

Alison Stewart: That sounds good. Great.

Charlotte: 20 seconds sounds splendid. All right.

[Charlotte singing]

"I'm not going to write you a love song

Because you asked for it because you need one.

You see, I'm not going to write you a love song

Because you tell me it's make or break and this

Because you're on your way. I'm not going to write you to say,

Hey, if all you have is leaving, I'm going to need a better reason to write you a love song today."

Alison Stewart: All right. I should have known when you said you were nervous that you were a ringer. What a great voice you have.

[laughter]

Charlotte: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Everybody here wants you to submit to this Public Song Project. I'm passing that along from the producer. Charlotte, thank you for calling in. We are talking about love songs, happy ones, sad ones. My guest is Anna Celenza, professor of Musicology at the Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins University. All right, Anna, you were very kind to curate some songs for us to listen today. You were going to hear a song called, It Had To Be You. I love this song. It Had To Be You made [unintelligible 00:13:20] by Marion Harris in 1924. Why did you want to highlight this one?

Anna Celenza: Well I love the song too. Part of it is, this is a song I want to make sure everyone hears. The earlier versions, they're great. So many people have sung this, but it sticks in my mind and I'm showing my age a little bit When Harry Met Sally. It's such a huge part of that film. It creates the whole emotional glue for that film. In so many ways, I think especially in the 20th century, love songs have done that. They've really played a major part of creating emotion in other genres like film.

Alison Stewart: Let's hear. It Had To Be You.

[MUSIC - Marion Harris: It Had To Be You]

Why do I do just as you say

Why must I just give you your way?

Why do I sigh? Why don't I try to forget

It must have been, that something lovers call fate

Kept on saying, 'I have to wait'

I saw them all, just couldn't fall 'till we met

It had to be you, it had to be you

I wandered around and finally found--

Alison Stewart: Anna, since you mentioned Harry Met Sally, we have the cover that Harry Connick Jr. did for that film. Let's listen to a little bit of his version of It Had To Be You.

[MUSIC - Harry Connick Jr.: It Had To Be You]

It had to be you

It had to be you

I wandered around and finally found the somebody who--

Alison Stewart: Anna, what's interesting to you about the way a singer like Harry Connick Jr. takes on a classic old-timey song like that?

Anna Celenza: Well, I think the thing that speaks to you the most is the way he works with the microphone. There's an intimacy to his sound, the way he sings it, which is very different from the first version you played with Marion Harris because recording technology was different. You really had to shout into a [chuckles] tube versus being able to really use the microphone as an instrument, as a musician. I think there's an intimacy that you can add to these older songs.

The other thing too that I think is amazing about this song, and one of the reasons it became so popular early on, it was the number one billboard for five weeks, and it was the number four song for the whole year of 1924, was because it's about a real love, right? It had to be you and it it mentions also the flaws. This is when you are truly, deeply in love with someone. It's beyond the first blush of love, and it's real realizing that it's also those flaws that make a person so lovable.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a listen to another song you wanted us to highlight. Love Me or Leave Me from 1928. Why did you pick this song?

Anna Celenza: Again, it's a song that I really love. To talk about a little difference here, which is interesting. This song was by Walter Donaldson and Gus Kahn, and in fact, Gus Kuhn wrote the lyrics for this one, and he also wrote the lyrics for It Had to Be You. He was a great lyrics writer. What's interesting about this one is this one, Love Me or Leave Me, was part of a Broadway musical called Whoopee!

It became a big hit on Broadway and then it spread. It Had To Be You, didn't it? It really just launched as a song, and there was such a power to the song that it took off. One thing just to relate to these songs as far as when they were originally written in 1924 and in 1928, is that if you look at the original sheet music, they come with a ukulele fretting. You can imagine people getting out the ukulele and singing it. They're really aimed at an amateur audience of a true song-loving audience versus virtuoso performers.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to the 1928. An older version, I should say, from Ruth Etting Love Me or Leave Me and then we'll listen to one from Nina Simone.

[MUSIC - Ruth Etting: Love Me or Leave Me]

This suspense is killing me

I can't stand uncertainty

Tell me now, I've got to know

Whether you want me to stay or go

Love me or leave me and let me be lonely

You won't believe me, that--

Alison Stewart: We're going to play a version that you've highlighted of Nina Simone covering this song in 1960 on The Ed Sullivan Show. What should we listen for in this?

Anna Celenza: Well, right off the opening, you're going to notice that her piano playing is very classical. She was a classically trained piano player, and then she will even incorporate a little bit of JS Bach after she sings some verse. This mix of the classical world she came from, and then the jazz were that many people wanted to see her be a part of.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a listen to Nina Simone.

[MUSIC - Nina Simone: Love Me or Leave Me]

Say, love me or leave me and let me be lonely

You won't believe me but I love you only

I'd rather be lonely than happy with somebody else

You might find the nighttime the right time for kissing

Nighttime is my time for just reminiscing

Regretting instead of forgetting with somebody else

There'll be no one unless that someone is you

I intend to be independently blue

I want your love and I don't want to borrow

Have it today to give back tomorrow

Your love is my love

There's no love for nobody else

Alison Stewart: Oh, that is so playful and fun. I love that you pointed that out for us, Anna. We are talking about love songs, old and new. We'll take some of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Anna Celenza, professor of musicology at the Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins University. We are talking about love songs, old and new. We've been asking you to call in with your favorite love song, your favorite heartache song. Let's take a few calls. Anna, let's talk to Ralph from the Bronx. Hi, Ralph.

Ralph: How're you doing? Happy Valentine's Day.

Alison Stewart: Same to you.

Ralph: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Let's hear it. You're on the air. Tell us about your favorite song.

Ralph: Okay. One of my favorite love songs is Tryin' to Love Two Sure Ain't Easy to Do by a singer named William Bell. It's a story about him being in love with two women. One's at home and one's out somewhere else, and he's just trying to just handle it. The lyrics are just incredible. [laughs] I've always loved that song. [sings] Trying to love two sure ain't easy to do. Oh, love it.

Alison Stewart: Would you sing another line, please, with that voice?

Ralph: [sings] Trying to love two sure ain't easy to do.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for that, Ralph. You left me speechless. Let's talk to Mike from Larchmont. Hi, Mike.

Mike: Yes, hi. I hope I don't have to sing. I was telling your screener that my mother was the first one to record My Funny Valentine. She was a big band singer in the '30s and early '40s. She recorded it with a bandleader whose name is Teddy Powell. I actually have the '78. I bought it on eBay so that I thought was the ultimate Valentine's Day song. I just thought I'd add that to the show.

Alison Stewart: Mike, let's shout out-

Anna Celenza: What's her name?

Alison Stewart: -her name, please?

Mike: Her name? Her stage name was Ruth Gaylord. Her actual name was Ruth Bernstein, but in those days, she didn't go by Bernstein. Someone said she had a voice like a Gaylord, which is a bird. She started singing professionally at 16. She's from Brooklyn. She was supporting her family, actually. She sang with Teddy Powell. She sang with Bunny Berigan. These are names that most of your listeners probably don't know. She was the first.

Alison Stewart: Mike, thank you for calling. You never know who's listening to WNYC. Let's go through a couple of texts. Amelia in the East Village, "Best heartbreak song, Nothing Compares 2 U by Sinéad O'Connor, written by Prince." "Best love song, When My Boy Walks Me Down the Street by The Magnetic Fields, or My Funny Valentine by anyone," especially Ruth Gaylord. "I Can't Make You Love Me, sung by Bonnie Raitt, written by Shamblin and Reid." "If I Should Fall Behind by Springsteen." "Heartache song tie between Stormy Weather by Lena Horne and Grace Is Gone by Dave Matthews."

Anna, let's get back into your selection. You've picked one song and three different versions that we can roll through. The 1924 song, What'll I Do by Irving Berlin. The same year, Berlin wrote a song called All Alone. Why is this a good song for a heartbreaking feeling on Valentine's Day?

Anna Celenza: Both of these songs are great because they are autobiographical. He was very much in love with a young woman who was from high society, and her father did not approve. The father sent her off to Europe for an extended visit, and that was when Irving Berlin wrote What'll I Do. He's imagining, as many of us have, if we've been in a long-distance relationship, imagining that person full of love but also away, and what's happening when they're away from you. Then two years later, they did get married. He wrote the song, Always as a wedding gift and gave her not only the song but all the royalties as a wedding gift.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a listen to What'll I Do. This is Marcia Freer and Henry Burr.

[MUSIC - Marcia Freer and Henry Burr: What'll I Do]

Gone is the romance that was so divine.

It's broken and cannot be mended.

You must go your way,

And I must go mine.

But now that our love dreams have ended

What'll I do

When you are far away

And I am blue--

Alison Stewart: What'll I Do has been covered by Nat King Cole, Linda Ronstadt, the Wainwrights. You have two versions of it you've highlighted, Willie Nelson and Chet Baker. We're going to hear Chet Baker first. Why Chet Baker?

Anna Celenza: I love Chet Baker's voice. I love his trumpet playing. I think he is a great singer of romantic songs, including My Funny Valentine. If the listeners didn't notice, in that first version, so the earliest recording is what we just heard, you can really hear that it was written originally as a waltz. One of the reasons I drew out Chet Baker and then what we'll hear later is this song by Irving Berlin, it shows the brilliance of his songwriting in that any artist can make it their own, and it's one of these songs that can cross genres and feel like an early Broadway tune, or it can feel like a 1950s love song or even a country song.

Alison Stewart: Let's hear What'll I Do from Chet Baker.

[MUSIC - Chet Baker: What'll I Do]

What'll I do when you are far away

And I am blue, what'll I do?

What'll I do when I am wondering who is kissing--

Alison Stewart: That's Chet Baker, What'll I Do. Thanks to everybody who called in with their love songs and texted in as well, and thanks to Anna Celenza, professor of musicology at the Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins University. We will talk to you again at the end of the week. Thanks, Anna.

Anna Celenza: That sounds great. Thank you so much. Happy Valentine's Day.

Alison Stewart: Happy Valentine's Day. We'll go out on Willie Nelson's version of What'll I Do.

[MUSIC - Willie Nelson: What'll I Do]

Gone is the romance

That was so divine, which broken and cannot be mended.

You must go your way and I must go mine

Now that our love dreams have ended.

What'll I do when you are far--

 

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