Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. We're grateful that you're here. Next week, we have a preview of our September Get Lit With All Of It book club event with the composer of a new opera based on The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay by Michael Chabon. That is our pick this month. Members of the Met will perform. We'll also talk to actor Zosia Mamet about her new essay collection, Does This Make Me Funny?

Plus, musicians Rob Thomas and Wyclef Jean will both be by to talk about their latest projects, separate projects, by the way, and they'll share some music. That's all next week, but first, this Sunday is Grandparents Day.

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Alison Stewart: Grandparents Day. It's this Sunday, and some grandkids may be getting ready to bring their grandparents to school for the day next week. It's a time to celebrate grandma or grandpa, whether they're still here or not with us. Ahead of the weekend, we want to invite you to shout out a grandparent, but within this framework. We want to hear your grandparents' New York story. It could be anything, but ideally it's something that comes to mind about your grandparent and New York.

Maybe a story of how you spent time with them in the city, or their immigration story, or memories you associate with them. Joining us for this conversation is Von Diaz. She's the senior producer for StoryCorps, and she's brought along some of her favorite StoryCorps grandparents' stories. Welcome to WNYC, Von.

Von Diaz: Thanks, Alison. Happy to be here.

Alison Stewart: From your perspective, as someone's recorded and produced hundreds of interviews, what makes a grandparent's story unique?

Von Diaz: I think grandparents hold such a special place in our lives. They're at one point providing wisdom and the kind of guidance that a parent does, but they have this distance and separation. They're older, they've lived a longer life, and somehow, often not always, are just really a little more loving, and I think feel a real obligation to pass information on to their grandkids and often to leave them with the legacy of what came before.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, take a moment now to shout out one of your grandparents, but specifically, we want to hear about your grandparents' New York story. Call or text us at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. It could be the story of how your grandparents emigrated to the city, or small business one of them started. Maybe they shared a special encounter with a celebrity, maybe they were a celebrity. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Thinking about your family history, Von, what is your favorite story that comes to your mind when you think about your grandparents?

Von Diaz: Oh, goodness. I'm from Puerto Rico, and my grandmother was a tremendous part of my life. She was the person that taught me how to cook and ultimately inspired me to write my first cookbook. Her life and her legacy live through my fingers when I'm cooking, and the smells and sounds of her kitchen always really transport me back to my own childhood.

Alison Stewart: You've pulled some stories from StoryCorps about parents and grandparents. We're going to start with a story about one grandson's memory of their Italian grandfather in New York City. Do you want to set this up a little bit?

Von Diaz: Sure. We'll be hearing from Nicholas Petron, and his grandfather came to the US from Italy as a young man to try to make it in New York City. Was here for a while, and then things changed.

Nicholas Petron: My maternal grandfather, Rocco Galasso, was a superintendent in an apartment building for probably 18 years of his life. At some point, he bought the building, and so we grew up there. He would say to me, "Nicol, we're going for a walk," and I always wanted to go with Grandpa. He would get a pastrami sandwich the size of my head, and he would buy me a hot dog, and he would say, "Don't you tell anybody. We just go for a good walk. Right? You want another hot dog?"

In this building, every apartment was filled with an aunt or an uncle, and every Sunday, Rocco cooked. All of his family would show up for dinner, all 30, 40 of us. One Sunday at dinner, Rocco made it clear to us that we were going to all have to move, that the city has condemned all of these buildings to build these brand new apartments. We had, I think, eight months to a year to relocate. Then one day, my mom and dad and my brother Michael, and I went to Rocco's apartment for the Sunday meal.

Now, we no longer lived on the first floor. Everybody else was gone. It was abandoned except for that one apartment. We had our meal, and at some point, Rocco said to me and my brother, "Let's go downstairs and put some coal in the burner." We got down to the coal pile. Instead of grabbing the shovel, he said, "Pick up as much coal as you can and put it in your pocket." We stuffed our overcoat with coal and our jean pockets with coal, and we went to the backyard. There's one light on, and all the other apartments are dark.

He takes a piece of coal out of his pocket and he throws it through one of the windows. Tears are streaming down his face, and he says, "Come on, you break the windows with me." My brother and I just started throwing-- We thought it was fun at the time. We're smashing windows, and my mom and Aunt Lucy stick their heads out and go, "What are you doing, Pop? Stop it. Stop it," but we didn't stop until all the windows were broken except for his apartment.

At first, my reaction was they took his building away. That's what I thought it was about, but I realized much later it was about the destruction of the family, which I think he knew. A month later, he had to leave, and never again were we ever together on a Sunday in that way.

Alison Stewart: That was such a heartbreaking story. What does it show you about the relationship between a grandchild and a grandfather?

Von Diaz: Sure. It's layered because, at first, his grandfather demonstrates this signature grandparent behavior, which is spoiling.

Alison Stewart: True.

Von Diaz: He's always buying extra hot dogs. He's like, "Eat a hot dog whenever you want," but I really think that his grandfather, in what seems like an act of anger and destruction, this breaking of windows, is actually demonstrating standing up for what he believes, which is, to me, clearly what resonates with Nicholas.

Alison Stewart: I love the idea of him putting coal in his pockets.

Von Diaz: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Like, "We're going to do something with this."

Von Diaz: Exactly.

Alison Stewart: You're also allowed to make fun of your grandparents' accent, apparently.

Von Diaz: If you have immigrant grandparents, you have to.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a couple of calls. This is Nemat, who's calling from Mount Vernon. Hi, Nemat, thank you so much for calling, All Of It. We'd love to hear your story.

Nemat: Hi. Love your show. My grandmother, Alberta Taylor, she moved up during a great migration from South Carolina. Her sister, my grand aunt, my two grand uncles, and her moved up, my grand aunt first, and brought everybody else up, and they all lived in one building, which I found out by looking at the census. I didn't know that, but that was very typical at the time. Another story, when my mother didn't take me to church, my grandmother would take me on the subway. That was one of my few experiences because my mother would drive me everywhere, and I'd be on the subway with my grandmother.

Another story that I told your screener was that one time my grandmother had sprained her wrist. Our grocery store, and this is for our old New Yorkers, Hills Grocery Store, was a couple of blocks from our house. Because she had sprained her wrist, she pinned her wallet inside her pocket. When she went to the store, someone did try to pick her pocket, and she wound up beating them up with her purse after they had tried to steal her wallet out of her pocket.

My grandmother was tremendous for spoiling me. My mother told me I could not have a Barbie townhouse, which my mother built me a dollhouse instead, and my grandmother still bought me a Barbie townhouse, so I had a duplex.

Alison Stewart: Sounded like you had a great grandma. Thank you so much for sharing that. Let's talk to Jean from Montclair on line six. Jean, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Jean: Hi. Good afternoon. I wanted to share about my grandfather. His name was Eugene Nolte, and he came to the US in 1920 from Ireland. I was telling your screener that one of his first jobs was he dug the Lincoln Tunnel. He helped to dig the Lincoln Tunnel. He told me that he didn't leave the job site for about two weeks because he was afraid that he was going to lose the job. It was such valuable work that he didn't want to leave. He would just take a 15-minute break, have a cup of tea, a piece of bread, and get back to work.

The other thing of note was that he told me that during that time, five or six men would be taken out per day, that were usually killed on the job doing that line of dangerous work, but I have a lot of fond memories of my grandfather. That's just one of the stories that I remember him telling me. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for sharing that story as well. My guest is Von Diaz. She's a StoryCorps senior producer. We're talking about Grandparents Day. It's this Sunday. We're going to go to another story. This one was recorded by StoryCorps in New York City. It's a woman named Michelle. Do you want to set this up a little bit, Von?

Von Diaz: Yes. This is really a legacy recording. It was recorded, for those StoryCorps fans out there, in the Grand Central booth, which operated for many years. This is a very, very early recording from 2006. Here, you'll hear Michelle Cadwallader talking about her grandmother, Hattie Sordine, with her own partner, Tracy Epp. In it, you'll hear her reflecting on a really unique personality that her grandmother had and how she came to understand that.

Tracy Epp: Tell me about your grandmother.

Michelle Cadwallader: Grammy was my maternal grandmother, and she decided that she didn't want to be a grandmother or Granny or Nana or something like that. She made up her own name for herself, and so she became Gremmich, which was a combination between gremlin and witch. She also had this alter ego that was Mrs. Wiffenpoofle. She wasn't just like this with kids. She was like this with her old friends. She would send letters to them signed Mrs. Wiffenpoofle. She was sometimes in her own little world.

Tracy Epp: What's the earliest memory you have of her?

Michelle Cadwallader: Probably tucking me into bed at night. She would nibble on our ears and try and guess the flavor of the ear. She'd kiss your earlobe and say, "[onomatopoeia] What are you tonight?" and she'd guess chocolate. Of course, you'd say no. "Pistachio?" "No." I'd try and come up with the most complicated flavor I knew to make it so that she would have to keep kissing my ear again and again and again.

She was different than other old people that I knew who didn't like loud noise, or she would sing, and she could play the piano, so we could all sing together. I loved having her around. Then, as I got older, I started realizing that it was a strain on adults to be around her at times, to be around somebody who had so much energy that she couldn't complete one task. When she would drive, she would turn around and look at us in the backseat to talk with us while she's driving. We would go over the curb. When I knew enough about driving, I started feeling unsafe with her in the car. Not because she was old, but because she just was distracted.

Tracy Epp: Was there ever a conversation when your mother or any adult sat you down and told you officially about your grandmother's illness?

Michelle Cadwallader: I don't remember any specific conversation. I just remember somehow catching on finally that when they say highs and lows and "Oh, mother's in such a nice spot right now, she's really balanced," I realized this is a lot of why she was so fantastic, because she was manic depressive. She had more energy, probably, than the kids did. When we went to bed tired at night, she would still be wired and be cleaning until 3:00 in the morning. I wondered, "Is this person who's this fantastic playmate, is that really my grandmother, or is that an illness that wires her brain to go for days without sleep?"

I learned the other side of her, like when she couldn't get out of bed, or somebody else had to buy groceries for her because otherwise she just would have not eaten.

Tracy Epp: What regrets, if any, do you have?

Michelle Cadwallader: I was traveling across country the summer she died, and I had planned to visit her. On my way, my mom called and told me that she had died. We had had this visit planned where I was going to spend three days with her, and I never got to do that.

Tracy Epp: If there's one thing that you could have said to her before she died, what would you have said to her?

Michelle Cadwallader: I would have said, "I love you," one more time, but I told her that a lot. She knew that. I also wished that she had met you. She'd heard a lot about you, and she knew that you were incredibly special to me. I think that you would have fallen in love with her, and I wanted to share you with her.

Alison Stewart: That was a beautiful story. It was very interesting. Maybe this is the journalist in me. I heard ways that you can talk to your grandparents to get them to speak to you, because a lot of grandparents won't tell you stuff. They'll tell you, "Oh, that's none of your business." That's something when you-- especially a lot of Black grandparents won't tell you stuff that's happening because some of it's really difficult for them to recall. Could you give people a few recommendations for how to talk to grandparents?

Von Diaz: Sure. I think something that's so lovely about that particular conversation is, kids are so smart. They're so intuitive. They really get it. The things that adults might perceive about someone, I think, a lot of times for kids, they don't matter because they're really on the same level as the person. They can feel them and be grounded with them. I think that kindness, genuine curiosity, is probably the biggest tip that I can give, because there may be for some elders, some reticence to disclose, but I think that once they seem, and I've heard this in dozens of StoryCorps interviews, once they can actually tell that their grandchild is genuinely curious about their life and what they think, they snap to.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Charles from Merrick, Long Island. Hi, Charles. Thank you for making the time to call All Of It. You're on the air.

Charles Murray: Yes, sure. Hi. My name is Charles Murray, and I wanted to tell you guys that I never knew my grandfather. There was a huge generation gap between my mom and my dad, but through the use of Ancestry.com, I learned that he was a New York City fireman. When I learned that, I got on the phone to New York City Fire and made inquiries. I have his date of immigration from Northern Ireland is late 1870s, like 1877.

They said, "Well, he would have been a fireman as a young man, and that was before New York City Fire was consolidated. We no longer have records of the personnel that were there, but I have a photograph of him at a New York City Fire Department awards ceremony." This was interesting information for me to learn because before I ever knew that, I became a New York City paramedic, and among many neighborhoods that I worked in, worked in the same neighborhood where my grandparents lived down in Greenwich Village, and ended up working as a medic for New York Presbyterian for 23 years. I just thought it so ironic.

Alison Stewart: It sounded like history repeated itself in your family's story. Charles, thank you for calling. Did you find that with people that history repeats itself?

Von Diaz: Definitely.

Alison Stewart: Definitely. We'll have more of our Grandparents Day celebration. I'm speaking with Von Diaz, a StoryCorps senior producer, and we are also hearing from you. We'll take more of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Grandparents Day is this Sunday, and we are talking to Von Diaz, a StoryCorps senior producer, about how to speak to your grandparents and get their story down for generations to come. We are also hearing from you. Let's talk to Betsy in Rye. Hi, Betsy.

Betsy: Hi. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. Let's hear your story.

Betsy: Mine is about an annual pilgrimage we would take. I'm the eighth out of nine children, and my grandparents were born in the city but then moved, one to Mount Vernon, one to Harrison. We would, every year at Christmas, head into the city, first starting with R9 and my parents in the back of a big station wagon, and somehow fit my grandparents in as well. When we were driving in to see the Christmas tree, which we always did at Rockefeller Center, in those days, beggars would knock on windows and hope to get some change or money.

My grandfather, who always felt like you always had to help anybody who needed help, pulled out probably his only dollar bill and rolled down the window and went to hand it to the person, and they looked inside the station wagon, and they said, "Forget it. You need it more than I do," and wouldn't take the money from him.

Alison Stewart: That's a good story.

Betsy: That's been a really good memory. I felt that was a story of two people being generous on different ends of the spectrum.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for sharing that story. This said, "My Irish grandmother grew up in Hell's Kitchen. On a hot summer night, they would move the mattress out onto the fire escape to catch a cool breeze." Von, earlier before the break, this gentleman had said that he didn't know his grandparents, and he had learned the story through ancestry and through a little bit of research. If a grandparent dies when we're young or before we were born, how would you suggest we learn more about them?

Von Diaz: We have so many tools at our disposal, so much more, it feels like, every year. Research libraries still have information, and then talking to the rest of your family members, your parents, your aunts and uncles, your cousins, their siblings, if they're still alive. A plug for StoryCorps, each year, we do a big push to get people to have conversations with their elders. It's called The Great Thanksgiving Listen. It's an incredible endeavor. We've recorded thousands of interviews.

Sometimes, that prompt of bringing another family member in to talk about and describe someone who's passed can really reveal a lot about that person. I think so often, StoryCorps interviews are typically recorded with people looking at each other face-to-face, and there is something special about looking someone in the eye and asking, "Tell me about my grandmother. What was she like?" Sometimes just that simple question, "What did she look like? What did she eat? What did she smell like?" can really elicit strong memories that are really powerful.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Barbara in Jamesport. Hi, Barbara. Thank you so much for calling All Of It. Tell us about your grandparent.

Barbara: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. My grandfather was a very quiet man, but his story was anything but. He was a little guy, 5'4, and 128 pounds. Before college was over, he joined General Pershing to fight back Pancho Villa down in New Mexico. Then he finished school and entered World War I. He was in the trenches. I have photo albums of those battlefields. I have records from the State Department and his maps. He was gassed, he came home, and he became the first Jewish man or Jew to be accepted to Yale Medical School, from which he established a very, very popular and beloved pediatric practice.

He was really quite an extraordinary human being. I never asked my father how it was to try to fill his shoes. I missed that question, but I think about my grandfather a lot and his heroism and his patriotism and his courage.

Alison Stewart: Barbara, thank you for sharing that story. This text says, "My grandparents went to the New York City World Fair in 1936 for their honeymoon. They kept the program. I have it, and their pictures." So cool. What makes you think that New York is a ripe setting for grandparents' stories?

Von Diaz: Oh, goodness. There are so many different communities that live right next to and on top of each other in New York City and across the boroughs. I think that there's also, particularly for grandparents of my generation, getting to New York and making it to New York decades ago was different than it is today. I think you're going to find a lot of stories of deep resilience and powerful stories, and also stories that demonstrate a real dedication to family and legacy and making a good life for your family.

Alison Stewart: If people want to hear more voices from StoryCorps, where can they go?

Von Diaz: StoryCorps.org is our website. You have our entire collection of stories dating back to 2006. We also have an incredible podcast, which you can find on npr.org. You can find our stories also on NPR, and I also want to plug that we make some really beautiful animations with some of these stories. Sundays at Rocco's was one of the interviews that we listened to today. It's a beautiful animation. It really brings these voices to life. Any of those places. We are also on Instagram, TikTok, X, Facebook, and all of the other places.

Alison Stewart: Von Diaz has been my guest, a StoryCorps senior producer. Thanks to everybody who called in. We're going to one more story from StoryCorps. This is Kay Wang. Anything you wanted to say about this?

Von Diaz: This is a classic and an absolute favorite that leaves us in stitches. You'll be hearing Kay Wang, who's feeling questions from her son Chang and her granddaughter Chen. At the time, she was 87 years old.

Kay Wang: I wasn't very nice. If I make a mistake, my mother, she make me apologize. In our custom, when you apologize to your mother, you have to bring a cup of tea and say, "I'm sorry," but I purposely dropped that hot cup of tea on my mother's lap. I wasn't a good student. I always lied to get out of school, because a lot of boyfriend after me. That time I was too young. I was not bad-looking then. What else? Hurry, hurry. I want to go home.

Chen: How'd you meet grandpa?

Kay Wang: I was a training nurse in a hospital. He was there for hemorrhoids operation. When your grandpa see me, your grandpa keep on asking me to get married. I said, "I don't like you. You have bald headed." I didn't like him because he's ugly, but one thing about your grandpa, he's very smart. That's it, no more question?

Chen: No.

Chang: Just a couple more questions?

Kay Wang: Short one.

Chang: Short ones.

Chen: Short ones. Tell me about working at Bloomingdale's. What did you do?

Kay Wang: You know what I do. I'm not going to tell you.

Chen: No, you have to talk about it.

Kay Wang: I am a detective. I got the very famous designer. I better not mention her name. She stole a dress $3,000-some. I walk out the store, I said, "Would you like to pay me that dress?" She said, "Do you know who I am?" I said, "Yes, you are a thief." That's my life.

Chen: Do you have any regrets?

Kay Wang: No. Why should I regret? No. I think I'm old enough to do whatever I would like, and that's it.