Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's get ready for an hour of fun. As the members of the series Parks and Rec say, sometimes you have to treat yourself.

Donna: Three words for you, treat yo self.

Tom and Donna: Treat yourself 2011.

Tom: Once a year, Donna and I spend a day treating ourselves. What do we treat ourselves to?

Donna: Clothes.

Tom: Treat yourself.

Donna: Fragrances.

Tom: Treat yourself.

Donna: Massages.

Tom: Treat yourself.

Donna: Mimosas.

Tom: Treat yourself.

Donna: Fine leather goods.

Tom: Treat yourself.

Donna: It's the best day of the year.

Tom and Donna: The best day of the year.

Alison Stewart: It seems that Gen Z agrees. Gen Z loves treats. Little treat culture is a food trend that emerged about buying cheaper, smaller portions of thanks snacks to say, "You did a good job." Turning the page. Turning. There we go. Okay. It could be a slice of cake, a cinnamon bun or a warm beverage. A little treat, or to accompany something, a hit of joy to keep the day going. Nikita Richardson is the editor for The New York Times Food section and a lover of little treats. Nikita and her colleagues have published a list of their favorite little treats in New York, 46 in total, and you can find the list on the New York Times website now. Nikita is in studio now. Welcome back.

Nikita Richardson: Hi. Happy to be here.

Alison Stewart: What is your definition of a little treat?

Nikita Richardson: Well, it's funny, because little treat has an expansive definition. There's a story in the Times by Kailyn Rohne that came out a few months ago, and a little treat was a $500 guitar, but according-

Alison Stewart: That's not a little treat.

Nikita Richardson: That's not a little treat at all, but by my standards, a little treat is usually $20 or under, $20 being the ceiling. A lot of people are very shocked by that, but I think that's a ceiling. A lot of them are lower than that. It is, you can get it on the fly. You don't need a reservation and you're usually going to eat it right there. It's not something that you're taking home or saving for later. You're going to finish it right then and there.

Alison Stewart: When did you first notice the little treats start to emerge on social media?

Nikita Richardson: I think that the term little treat, as we just heard from a segment from 2011 on Parks and Rec, obviously little treat culture has been around for a while, but I think only now is it being identified as such. I think that everyone always is like, "You know what? I deserve that." I always say like 3:00 PM is actually a little treat time, time for a little something sweet.

I think that it's getting to this point because when you mix the fact that it is extremely hard to make it right now, for everyone, regardless of their generation, they don't have to be Gen Z, I think that people are always looking for that small pleasure they could afford for themselves. Especially even right now, I'm thinking about, like, SNAP benefits and all these things. Food insecurity is real. Food is such a source of comfort for all of us, and I think that was at the heart of what we were trying to do with this story, is trying to touch on the comfort of a little treat.

Alison Stewart: My niece calls them sneaky snacks. I'm seeing a little sneaky snack right now. What was your criteria to define what would go under your little treat? You said $20 or less. What else did it have to have?

Nikita Richardson: I think that a lot of little treat chat is about it being sweet, and I love sweet. I actually recently learned, weeks ago, that my mom ate a cinnamon bun every day she was pregnant with me, which explains why I am who I am. I think I have a sweet tooth.

Alison Stewart: Oh my God, that's so [inaudible 00:03:52]

Nikita Richardson: I learned this, like a month ago. It explains everything, but I want to have a more expansive definition because not everyone likes sweets. Some people love savory things, some people want something in between that. We have a cup of broth at Brodo in the East Village, we have tofu pudding from Fong On. We have, I think, what could be a more expansive definition, but the idea being that it's something that you sit down and have for a moment and you really enjoy it, and it's across all the boroughs and it's cheap. That's the real point, it's affordable.

Alison Stewart: Is your mom still alive?

Nikita Richardson: Yes, she is.

Alison Stewart: Okay. She'll be a guest on the show eventually. I need to know more about that.

Nikita Richardson: She'd love to do that.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, what's your favorite little treat to get in the city? Not a meal, something cheap. A little snack you like to get when you're out and about. Our phone lines are wide open. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. It could be a slice of cake, a smoothie, a coffee, maybe an egg tart. A little treat for you and yourself when you want a little pick-me-up. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Nikita Richardson, editor for the New York Times Food section and creator of the Where to Eat newsletter. We're discussing a new list she helped to make of the Times editor's 46 favorite little treats in New York City. Let's get into your list.

Nikita Richardson: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Kellogg's icebox pie. This is in Williamsburg at Kellogg's Diner at 518 Metropolitan Avenue. This is a big deal that it's reopened.

Nikita Richardson: Yes. It closed almost about two years ago. It was purchased by another buyer, and they redid the entire menu, but kept it diner-esque. It is actually like it was before the pandemic, open for 24 hours, which is becoming increasingly rare in New York City. They had a pastry chef named Amanda Perdomo, and she created this insane passion fruit Tajin icebox cake. It is a huge cloud of meringue sprinkled with Tajin, which everyone has a little spice that you put on the rim of a michelada. Underneath that is the most delicious passion fruit curd you ever had. Then beneath that is a graham cracker crust. Every time I go there, if I have eaten too much and I don't have a room, I will always take a slice to go. It is one of the best slices of pie in this city. I swear by that.

Alison Stewart: It kind of is a twist on the lemon meringue, you would normally find.

Nikita Richardson: I find passion fruit to be such an interesting flavor. Dare I say, I'm more of a passion fruit person now than a mango person, having grown up being a mango person.

Alison Stewart: Ooh. How did that happen?

Nikita Richardson: I think the scales fell from my eyes.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's say you're working at the Times and you decide that you need a treat. What's an example of a little treat you'll get yourself during the workday? You can't make it out to Williamsburg.

Nikita Richardson: No.

Alison Stewart: What's something you'll get?

Nikita Richardson: Across our office, we are obsessed with Culture Espresso. I think there's three locations of it, and there's coffee shops in the midtown area, and they have the best cookies. They have a really good chocolate chip cookie, but they also have a really good corn cookie. I do not know why they have gone as hard on cookies as they have on coffee, but consistently, people go out and they'll be like, "Hey, can I get you a Culture cookie?" And we're like, "Of course," or they'll bring back an entire box of them because we all love them so much. For the New York Times Food section, if you want to know where we're at, we're at the Culture Espresso.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. Dana is calling in from South Orange, New Jersey. Hey, Dana, thanks for taking the time to call All Of It.

Dana: Hi. Of course. I'm so excited to call in.

Alison Stewart: What do you like to eat?

Dana: My favorite sweet treat is the chocolate cake and a cup of tea from Alice's Tea Cup, which is on the Upper West Side. They have three chapters, and whenever I'm in the area, we'll walk the extra couple blocks and go get me a slice of their chocolate cake. It's the most rich, decadent chocolate cake. Then a cup of tea just washes it down perfectly.

Alison Stewart: I love how she said, "I'm going go get me a slice."

Nikita Richardson: [crosstalk] slice of chocolate cake. There are so many slices of cake on this list, by the way, and especially chocolate cake, which I think it must have something to do with the movie Matilda, because Bruce Bogtrotter. Every time I see a big slice of chocolate cake, I'm like, "That's Bruce Bogtrotter core."

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Emily, who's calling in from Short Hills, New Jersey. Hey, Emily, you're on the air.

Emily: Hey, there. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing okay.

Emily: Good. My favorite sweet treat, I make sure I'm there every day at three o'clock when I'm in the city, is my cappuccino and a fabulous ginger cookie from Clementine's down in Tribeca. If I can't get there for that, I'm down for Daily Provisions' oatmeal raisin cookie with cranberry and white chocolate. I don't go a day without my sweet treat. You guys validated me. I'm so happy because my girlfriends always tease me up. "We got to stop. It's Emily's time." Now I'm real and I'm live, so I'm very happy.

Alison Stewart: Emily, I'm glad that we could endorse you.

Emily: Exactly. Have no shame.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Sheila. She's calling from Harlem. Hey, Sheila, thanks for making the time to call All Of It. What do you like to eat?

Sheila: I love this segment. Thank you so much, All Of It. My special sweet treat is definitely handmade, warm rugala. Every chance I get, I get some. It's made by Mr. Lee at Lee Lee's Bakery on West 118th Street. Can't miss it.

Nikita Richardson: Wow.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling.

Nikita Richardson: I'm going to take that recommendation. Run with it.

Alison Stewart: This text says, "Definitely a red velvet cupcake at Magnolia Bakery. I will wait on any line that they have that goes around the corner, because I'm coming all the way from Monmouth County, New Jersey, just to have one." That brings up an interesting subject, lines.

Nikita Richardson: Lines. SNL did a whole thing about it.

Alison Stewart: Big dumb lines.

Nikita Richardson: Big dumb lines. Exactly.

Alison Stewart: How do you feel about lines if you're waiting for a sweet treat?

Nikita Richardson: I think that it's so funny, because if you think about sweet treat culture, it walks hand in hand with hype bakery culture, which was something that was touched on by Anna Hezel for Grub Street last year. We are in boom times for bakeries. I love that, but also, we have so much choice here that I think that it defies the logic of the sweet treat to be in a line sometimes because it's taking away your time. I think it should be immediate. That is not to say that you shouldn't go to a place because it has a line, but I think when we talk about sweet treats being accessible, they're usually not in a line. Like, you can walk in and out. Maybe you're waiting for five minutes.

The more accessible, the better. I like to save the lines for the really special occasions, like your friends coming to visit from out of town, you're like, "I'm taking you to Radio Bakery. We're going to wait in the line. It's going to be worth it."

Alison Stewart: You're going to take us to get some Vietnamese coffee at Larry's Ca Phe. Tell us a little bit about this place. What's the vibe like?

Nikita Richardson: Larry's Ca Phe is actually a-- it's got two locations, one in Park Slope, one in the Bushwick, East Williamsburg area. The owner is a Vietnamese adoptee, and he named it after his adoptive father who passed. Everything on the menu is Vietnamese café. This is not cafe, C-A-F-E. It's Ca Phe, which is very clever. I don't know how many of y'all had had Vietnamese coffee. It's like rocket fuel. I love it. They put condensed milk. This particular one I love there, though, is an egg-custard-like coffee. It's the coffee at the bottom, and on top is a layer of egg custard. It is-- [exhales] [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: Wait, egg custard on the coffee?

Nikita Richardson: Yes, it's just a nice-- you get this really creamy top. It's the ultimate latte. Everyone loves the foam. This is foam on 100. Then underneath that, you get the nice robust coffee coming through. It's a very nice balance. If you don't want that, they have an amazing matcha and coconut water drink that is much lighter and just as delicious, though.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some more calls. Let's talk to Rachel in Brooklyn. Hey, Rachel, thanks for making the time to call All Of It. You're on the air.

Rachel: Hi, thanks for taking my call. This segment is amazing. Definitely also validating my sweet treat needs. I would recommend Anti Co. in Bed Stuy on Malcolm X. They're all vegan, gluten free, which is hard to come by for good treats. I would pretty much recommend anything, but their chocolate chip banana bread fresh out of the oven is something else. Not just like any banana bread, it's really good. Highly recommend. Got to check it out.

Alison Stewart: Rachel, thanks for calling. Dominique is calling from River Edge, New Jersey. Dominique, take the mic. You're on the air.

Dominique: Okay. This is old school, but do you guys remember the cartoon where that the dog would be floating in the air and he'd be wafting to the-

Nikita Richardson: Yes.

Dominique: -pie that would be sitting in the-- That's how I feel right now listening to everybody talking. My mouth is watering. Again, old school, because I'm in a salty mood right now, which I call a snack. I don't call it a treat. When I need a sweet treat in the city, I agree I have to just stop to whatever kiosk, little street stand is there, and I got to grab a KitKat or Snickers, because it hits immediately and I need it then now. For salty snacks, I go for the dirty water dogs, because you get that quick, in three bites, it's done. [unintelligible 00:14:11] because I do my sweet treats at 3:00 AM. [crosstalk]

Nikita Richardson: I love it.

Dominique: Thanks. I love it. Thank you.

Nikita Richardson: Dominique, you're so real.

Alison Stewart: You're the best. Thanks, Dominique. Let's talk to Natalie who's calling from California.

Nikita Richardson: Okay. Hey, girl.

Alison Stewart: Natalie, we want to hear what's going on in California.

Natalie: Okay. Not a whole lot. That's why when I come to New York, I always have to get my snacks. You guys just do it right every time. I miss living there, and I will always come back to New York. Best city in the world. My favorite treat is actually pistachio cannoli from Fortunato Brothers in Brooklyn on Manhattan Ave. Best spot ever. My [unintelligible 00:14:54] know what they're doing every time. Wish we had Italian bakeries like that in California, and we don't. Keeps me coming back every time.

Okay, I'm just going to put this out there. If anyone knows, I used to live on the Upper East Side, and Two Little Red Hens was the best cupcakes in the city. Are they coming back? Does anyone know? I just need answers. They keep saying they are, but I don't know.

Nikita Richardson: We'll look into it for the Where to Eat newsletter. [crosstalk] I promise you we will look into it.

Alison Stewart: That was Nikita Richardson making a promise. She's editor for the New York Times Food section. We are discussing their little treats. They have 46 favorites listed in the New York Times. We want to hear from you as well. What's your favorite little treat to get in the city or in your town? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. When we come back, we're going to talk cheese curds.

You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Nikita Richardson, editor for the New York Times Food section and creator of the Where to Eat newsletter. We're discussing a new list she helped make of their 46 favorite little treats in New York. All right, we got a lot of texts. "Short rib or mushroom bacon skewers at Yakitori Totto on West 55th Street. Delicious, and $7. Little Red Kitchen in South Slope, Brooklyn Bakes, an amazing cinnamon roll. NYC sweet treat submission. Anytime I'm in this area in Greenpoint, I love to get the brown sugar and pear latte in Rhythm Zero coffee shop on Kent Street." Finally, "Chocolate mousse cake at Sunrise Marketplace in Hell's Kitchen. Words can't describe, but I'll try. The slice has three different kinds of chocolate." Perfect. Well, all right, before the break, I teased cheese curds. Where do you find cheese curds in New York City?

Nikita Richardson: Brooklyn.

Alison Stewart: In Brooklyn.

Nikita Richardson: It's a lot of Brooklyn. I'm sorry. I live there. Me and 2.6 million of my best friends. In Brooklyn, there's a place called Rose Marie, and it's a bar/restaurant. People treat it more like a restaurant, but you can go sit at the bar. I was there a few months ago and had the best cheese curds I've ever had in my life. Most things, I would say, like with a cheese curds, you hit a wall, you never hit a wall with these.

Alison Stewart: Really?

Nikita Richardson: Because they have a blackened olive ranch that is so tangy that it just cuts through the fat. I housed the plate. It was amazing. Would do it again.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Christina from Staten Island. Oh, Christina's not there. How about Sebastian, then? We'll go to Sebastian in Gowanus.

Sebastian: Hey, am I on?

Alison Stewart: You are.

Sebastian: Yes. I just wanted to give a quick shout out to, when I was in graduate school getting my MBA at Columbia, when I needed something to really lift me up, and I'm not a sweets guy, I would go on 108 in Amsterdam to Super Nice. It's a little hole in the wall, little window, and they'll give you a delicious Iced Americano with some of the best donuts you'll ever have in your life. I specifically like the spicy mango one, but yes, you can't go wrong with anything there.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling. Let's talk to Jenny in Brooklyn. Hi, Jenny, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Jenny: Hey, thanks for taking my call. Alison, love your show. Nikita, love what you write in the Times.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Jenny: I want to talk about Electric Beets in Park Slope. It's a vegan place, but don't worry, the sweets aren't healthy because sugar isn't healthy, so you don't have to feel like you're being above anyone else. They have some great stuff. They have like-- well, if you want non-sweet stuff, they have noodles, chickpea salad. You want sweet stuff? They have coconut date bars, chia pudding, sesame tahini cookies.

I'm a person mostly I make it myself. I don't really go out a lot. The fact that I want to take out some there means they're really great. Honestly, there aren't enough people in this place for how good it is. I don't know anyone there, I don't work there, I don't know the owner, but it's really a treasure right in the Slope on 7th Avenue.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for giving it a shout out. Let's talk to Basil, who is calling in from Williamsburg. Hi, Basil. Thanks for calling in.

Basil: Hey, it's Basil from Williamsburg. Thanks so much. You know what? I was going to call in to give Ube cake up at Buttercup bakery at 52nd and 2nd the major shout. It's a beautiful, decadent purple cake that's like your grandma cooked. Three layers high. What I really have to say is Make My Cake. You think you've had red velvet cake. I know you do, you haven't. You have to find the Make My Cake where the mother bakes it. It is amazing. One last thing is that she occasionally does a red velvet cake, where the top layer is red velvet, the bottom layer is a fluffy cheesecake.

Alison Stewart: Aww.

Nikita Richardson: Oh my God. Say less.

Alison Stewart: I love that he went, "Oh my God."

Nikita Richardson: Yes, I feel like everyone is, it's all mm, yes. Oh my God.

Alison Stewart: One more call. Let's go to Hunan in Manhattan. Hi, Hunan. Thanks for calling all of it.

Hanun: Hi, my name is actually Hanun.

Alison Stewart: Hanun.

Hanun: Actually, I'm not a sweet treat person at all. My daughter and I, we have a little tradition when I pick up from the school bus. There's an amazing little Japanese supermarket close by, and we go and pick up onigiri, which are Japanese rice balls, or very large sushi. Usually we get the shrimp tempura. It's just our favorite thing to do once she gets off the school bus.

Nikita Richardson: That was one of our little treats too. Yes, we had an onigiri on there. It's. Yeah, it's. The definition does not always have to be sweet. I think that's like so important, because everyone has a different definition of what's a treat to them. That sounds really lovely. It's nice that you and your daughter have that tradition.

Alison Stewart: One of the things I thought was so amazing in reading the comments, it talked about how diverse the list was and how this made you-

Nikita Richardson: Greatest city in the world.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Literally, it made you think like, "I live in the greatest city in the world that there are this many options.

Nikita Richardson: Somebody left a comment, "Eat your heart out, rest of America."

Alison Stewart: Let's go to Ridgewood, Queens. This place is salty, lunch ladies, little luncheonette.

Nikita Richardson: Yes, it's a mouthful.

Alison Stewart: We're getting cake there, though.

Nikita Richardson: We are. That's what's crazy, is they're an amazing sandwich shop, but the owner, Drea, I always tell her she can't keep getting away with this because she is an amazing baker as well. The cake slices change all the time. This one was written up by Priya Krishna, actually, because she's a huge fan of the place as well, but it changes. It could be like a hazelnut chocolatey type thing one day, it could be a peanut butter cake one day. It's always changing, but it is always good. When you go there, the sandwiches take a long time to make, for some reason, so I always end up just eating my dessert first, but that works for me.

Alison Stewart: All right, we've got some more text coming in. "The Turks Inn in Brooklyn has delicious cheese curds, Wisconsin style." The next one says, "The best little midday treat is an espresso tonic over ice from Prima Café in Clinton Hill. Bubbly, slightly bitter, and so refreshing." This says Brazilian chocolate truffles or cheese bread at, I hope I say this right, Brigaderio Bakery on Sullivan Street. Familiar with any of those?

Nikita Richardson: I have heard of it, but haven't been in-- I could never get to all these places, and that's the real tragedy.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Alex, who's calling in from Queens. Hi, Alex, you're on the air.

Alex: Hi. Can you hear me?

Alison Stewart: Hear you? Great. Okay.

Alex: Awesome. Yes, my go-to snack, I've been living in New York for 17 years since college, has always been the roast pork bun at Mei Lai Wa in Chinatown. I just want to shout out to people that TikTok has blown up that spot. Everyone goes for the pineapple bun, but you got to go for the OG baked char siu bao, roast pork bun, because the is just not my style. If you're in college, it's a great spot. Load up on a dozen, put them in your freezer, and you'll be fed for quite a long time.

Alison Stewart: Thanks, Alex. Kit is calling in from Bloomingdale. Kit, you're on the air.

Kit: Thanks. This is really funny, because I'm in a waiting room about to be seen by a doctor, but I just wanted to say that, and it's not from eating too many sweet treats, I love Lady M. I don't know if they still make a matcha cake, but they do make a matcha meal today, that is absolutely delicious. The matcha cream is not too sweet. It's just really, really perfect.

My other favorite is a meringue treat that comes in different sizes, so you can get a really nice small one. It's different flavors of cream on top of a meringue. It's just amazing. At Aux Merveilleux de Fred, the marbles of Fred, or the marvelous treats of Fred, and they have about three branches in Manhattan that they're all fabulous. They make everything in their bakery that you walk in and all you smell is butter. It's heaven. Their coffee is good, too.

Nikita Richardson: We had them on our list of the best croissants in the city.

Alison Stewart: Well, there you go. You talk about cinnamon rolls, Nikita, as well. Where's your cinnamon roll go-to for sweet treats?

Nikita Richardson: Well, as you know, I'm made of cinnamon rolls since birth.

Alison Stewart: You are made of cinnamon rolls.

Nikita Richardson: It's so funny, because one of our callers was talking about vegan and gluten free, and it can be very, very obviously to make really good vegan, gluten free, allergen-free baked goods, but it's being done at Bub's Bakery, which is in the city right near the Broadway Lafayette stop. They have an amazing big cinnamon roll. It's called Big Cinnamon Roll. You would never know that it did not have gluten in it, or it did not have all those things that make baked goods so delicious. They're doing true magic there. That's Melissa Weller, who is a really beloved pastry chef in the city, and she's doing the Lord's work with that cinnamon roll.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Karen in Weehawken. Hi, Karen, you're on the air.

Karen: Hi, Alison. I would feel terrible if I didn't call in and tell the world about Dulce de Leche Bakery. There's one in Jersey City Heights, West New York, and Englewood. Their cakes are just, oh my God, they're so good. My go-to would be like their tres leches or their chocolate cake with Dulce de Leche filling. Oh, and the coffee's outrageous. They're beautiful places, so I highly recommend them.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for your call. There have been critics of little treats. One Cosmo headline said, "Little treat culture proves we've forgotten how to live simply without turning everything into content." How would you respond to that?

Nikita Richardson: I think it's arguing two things, one, that-- it's not arguing against little treat culture, it's arguing against recording it.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Nikita Richardson: Okay. For me, I just think that it's anything small businesses need that, they're going to share it. I think that if this segment is anything, it's a testament to the sharing of it all. I think that we're all looking to share these small pleasures that we have, and we want to share them with one another, and these things that didn't cost us a million dollars and that we could actually share with our friends, if we wanted to, whether they're people we know or complete strangers on the Internet. I think that is more of an indictment of Gen Z than it is an indictment of little tree culture.

Alison Stewart: There are so many we could pick from. Which one do you want to pick? I was going to pick Petee's apple pie, but you could pick another one if you want to wrap up the segment.

Nikita Richardson: With Thanksgiving coming up, I will shout them out, because Petee's pie has two locations, one in the Lower East, I believe, and then the other one's in Brooklyn. I think that everyone should be able to walk into a shop, sit down for a slice of pie and a coffee, and just let the day wash away. They make a really good pie and they serve it until nine o'clock at night, starting at eleven o'clock in the morning. It's a true little treat. You can get it any time of day.

Alison Stewart: First thing, this entire segment will be available via transcript, so you can get all of our little treat recommendations. Of course, you should check out the little treats in the New York Times. The New York Times editor who has joined us has been Nikita Richardson. She's editor for the New York Times Food section and creator of the Where to Eat newsletter. We were discussing a new list she helped to make of their 46 favorite little treats in New York. Thanks for coming in.

Nikita Richardson: Thank you so much for having me.