Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Today, the powerhouse musical duo The War and Treaty are releasing their new album, Plus One. We have a special event in the works. Next week. We will be celebrating a listening party live. It's a live concert and conversation with The War and Treaty about their new release. Join us on February 20th at 7:00 PM downstairs in the green space. Get your tickets now at WNYC.org/events.

Now, live from New York, it's almost Saturday night.

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Saturday Night Live is celebrating its 50th anniversary this weekend in a big way. Tonight, there's a concert streaming live from Radio City featuring performers like Bad Bunny, Lady Gaga, David Byrne, Post Malone, Lauryn Hill, and many others. On Sunday, NBC will air a three-hour special featuring former cast members, including some of the show's original ones, former hosts, more musicians. That leaves one spot open, the show's regular time slot Saturday night, which they'll be filling with the very first SNL episode. To join in the celebration with our neighbors over there at 30 Rock, we're taking a trip down SNL memory lane and talking about ours and your favorite sketches. Before we get into it, let's get this one out of the way.

Alec Baldwin: No one can resist my Schweddy Balls.

Alison Stewart: Yes. That came in at number 40 on Esquire's list of the 50 Best Saturday Night Live sketches of all time. Abigail Covington is a contributing editor at Esquire, the author of a bunch of SNL articles, including that list. Abigail, welcome.

Abigail Covington: Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, what's your favorite SNL sketch of all time? Who's your favorite host as well? Call in or text us at 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. In your opinion, what makes a great SNL sketch?

Abigail Covington: Oh, gosh. Well, I think it's important to remember that comedy is subjective-

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Abigail Covington: -so the joy of a variety show like SNL is that there's something for everyone. If you disagree with your parents or you disagree with your children over the best sketch, it's totally natural. No need to fight. In my opinion, though, what makes a really great sketch is its ability to kind of transcend time. Any sketch that we quote or that we reference, that people who didn't see it when it originally aired but still know about it, those are really the legendary sketches. There have been a lot of them over the years.

Alison Stewart: Let's start with your number three sketch of all time. I only need to play a little clip for everyone to know about it.

Gene Frenkle: The last time I checked, we don't have a whole lot of songs that feature the cowbell.

Bruce Dickinson: I gotta have more cowbell, baby.

Gene Frenkle: Be doing myself a disservice and every member of this band if I didn't perform the hell out of this.

Bruce Dickinson: Guess what? I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell.

Gene Frenkle: Thank you, Bruce.

Alison Stewart: Okay, so that's basically one joke. A guy just playing cowbell over and over and over again. Why does it transcend that one noteness?

Abigail Covington: This one is tricky because I think some of my other top picks had a universal quality to them. They had characters that we recognize. More cowbell transcends the moment for reasons I'm not sure I can really explain. I think in retrospect, it seemed destined to work because you had one of SNL's very best cast members paired with one of SNL's very best hosts. You also had Jimmy Fallon cracking up so all of the ingredients were there. I do think that Will Ferrell here is just at his absolute best.

Alison Stewart: He's so funny in this. Like the little shirt.

Abigail Covington: The little shirt.

Alison Stewart: The little shirt, that's the best part.

Abigail Covington: I learned this recently. During dress rehearsal, he was wearing a regular-sized shirt. Then after the cold open, he went back and requested a smaller shirt. I think he finds a lot of power in really tight clothes. It's his comedy secret weapon.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Arthur, who's calling in from Queens. Hi, Arthur, you're on the air.

Arthur: Hey, thank you for taking my call. I wanted to name my favorite sketches. One, early years Richard Pryor and a takeoff on The Exorcist. I remembered that one with one of my favorites, Lorraine Newman. The others were in that. Colonel Angus with Tina Fey wrote it and Amy Poehler performed in it, as well as Christopher Walken. I won't go any further.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Arthur: The New Orleans, they did a whole show back in 1977 live from New Orleans with Randy Newman, and that was probably one of the best shows I've ever seen on Saturday Night Live.

Alison Stewart: He sounds like an expert on Saturday Night Live. Love it. Let's talk to Mo in Lynbrook, Long Island. Hi, Mo, thanks for calling All Of It.

Mo: Hi, Alison, thanks for taking my call.

Alison Stewart: Yes. You're on the air.

Mo: I was actually cast in a skit about three years ago for the SNL Christmas show.

Alison Stewart: Oh, what did you play?

Mo: I played a stenographer. It was a Please Don't Destroy short and it was about someone cheating on someone. I was cast in it. I had no idea what the skit was until I actually saw it on live television that night. I just could not believe what went down, like how fast it was and how fast it turned around and what I saw on television. It was amazing.

Alison Stewart: That is amazing. Thanks, Mo, for calling. People don't realize how quickly they turn things around.

Abigail Covington: I think one thing I learned putting together a lot of Esquire's SNL coverage is just the impact of it being a live show and how much-- sets are being built, wardrobes are being taken off and changed really, really quickly. It's a lot of activity. It's a very well-oiled machine. It's kind of a miracle that it comes together every week given how much has to happen.

Alison Stewart: Somebody texted us The Killer Bees. That was very funny.

Abigail Covington: I think The Killer Bees. If memory serves, correct, that was with John Belushi.

Alison Stewart: Yes, it was. Buzz, buzz, buzz.

Abigail Covington: It's a great sketch.

Alison Stewart: Come on. When you were putting together this list, how did you not fall dow the recency bias.

Abigail Covington: That's a big one. SNL is a very personal show to everyone. Our favorite sketches tend to be from when we were watching the show the most, so when we were in high school or college. For me, that would be kind of the Cheri Oteri era, the Tina Fey era a little later. I grew up in a family of people that loved SNL. My parents were laughing about Landshark.

Alison Stewart: Landshark. Just got one, Landshark.

Abigail Covington: Oh, I'm sure. A classic. SNL silliness at its best. It was really important to me with this list to make sure that people who have been watching the show in every single decade going back to the '70s felt represented. Felt like their sketches were here too. A lot of them stand up. I've spoken before about the universality of some of the characters. That's how I feel about Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, Matt Foley, some of the Steve Martin, the silliness of King Tut.

Alison Stewart: Some good classics.

Abigail Covington: No bias necessary. I love the old ones.

Alison Stewart: Abigail Covington is Esquire contributing editor. We are talking about the best SNL sketches of all time. We are taking your calls. 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on air or you can text to us as well. All right, let's take another run at your list. James Brown, hot tub. What is the premise?

Abigail Covington: [laughs] I don't know if there is one. There are no jokes in this sketch. What is the premise? It's James Brown vamping, trying to get in the hot tub. It's really just a brilliant impression. Eddie Murphy's charisma was just inescapable. This is, I think, one of the most quotable sketches. Just the, "Too hot. Too hot in the hot tub."

Alison Stewart: Let's play. Let's do it.

Murphy: I said hot tub. The hot, the hot tub gonna get ya hot, gonna make ya sweat. Say hot tub. Rub-a-dub in the hot rub. Rub-a-dub with me. Should I get in the hot tub?

Band: Yeah.

Murphy: Will it make me sweat?

Band: Yeah.

Murphy: Should I get in the hot tub?

Band: Yeah.

Murphy: Will it make me wet?

Band: Yeah.

Murphy: Well, well, well-- Hot tub--

Alison Stewart: You know how it's classic? You don't even have to see it to have the visual of it.

Abigail Covington: Oh, totally.

Alison Stewart: It comes right to your forehead.

Abigail Covington: He's in the little, I guess, bikini. He's so young. It is startling to see a young Eddie Murphy with so much confidence.

Alison Stewart: Oh, yes.

Abigail Covington: I genuinely think this is what James Brown would look like if he were trying to get into a hot tub as well. It's a straight impression that Murphy brings to life with that song and dance talent. No one else could have done it.

Alison Stewart: I'm curious, and if you don't know the answer, it's fine, but Kenan has a sketch called What Up with That? Which is another one where the soundtrack of the show comes up. It's just repeated over and over again. SNL, do they have certain rhythms that they repeat over and over again?

Abigail Covington: Well, there's definitely a connection between Too Hot in the Hot Tub and-

Both: What Up with That?

Abigail Covington: Yes. If SNL knows something works, they will do it again. I think there are different types of connections across SNL. Ones that recurring characters, but then the looser connection, like Too Hot in the Hot Tub and What Up with That, they sound almost the exact same.

Alison Stewart: You had made a list of the 25 best. Not really the best. Great cast members, we'll call them. How about that?

Abigail Covington: Yes.

Alison Stewart: You had Eddie Murphy at number three. You had Will Ferrell at number one. What makes a good cast member?

Abigail Covington: I reserve the right to edit this list in real time if I need to.

Alison Stewart: Sure, sure. It's okay. It's live radio.

Abigail Covington: I think there's a case. You could easily argue that Eddie Murphy was number one based on just sheer impact.

Alison Stewart: It's not like the best cast members. They were just great cast members.

Abigail Covington: Right. I needed 25 more slots. What makes a great cast member? I think the very best cast members can do a lot of different things. I think someone like Phil Hartman, who could play so many different roles and also made everyone else better, he was great. Will Ferrell could do anything except play a straight man. It was hard to keep your eyes off him. He was having so much fun all the time. He was really, I think, one of the first or one of the only people on SNL who was bigger than the sketches he appeared in sometimes. Those two were great in different ways.

I don't think I had Jane Curtin on my list. That's an edit that I would make because she was essential in her era. They needed a straight man. These were all guys with big egos. Big stars, very funny. The show wouldn't have worked if they weren't playing off Jane Curtin. She was just as essential and fantastic as well.

Alison Stewart: One of the people from the top of your SNL list is Chris Farley. Let's listen to a clip.

Chris Farley: Now, as your father probably told you, my name is Matt Foley and I am a motivational speaker. Now, let's get started by letting me give you a little bit of a scenario of what my life is all about. First off, I am 35 years old, I am divorced, and I live in a van down by the river.

Alison Stewart: Okay, that's funny. First of all, Bob Odenkirk created that character.

Abigail Covington: That's right.

Alison Stewart: You quote him in your article saying, "It may be one of the strangest sketches I ever wrote because it's not really funny." Do you think it's not funny?

Abigail Covington: I think in different hands, it might not have been. Matt Foley is a down-and-out guy. He's using his own tragic circumstances as a source of motivation for kids, "Don't end up like me." There's no punchline there. That's why I love Matt Foley. There's a lot of heart in this character. I really hope for him that he's upgraded to a house on a farm instead of a van by the river. I think he deserves that.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to read a bunch of these texts. Please excuse my accent, I'm gonna do the best I can. "Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger. Chips. No. Coke, Pepsi."

We also got Dan Aykroyd as Julia Child bleeding profusely after accidentally cutting herself during her cooking show.

This one says, "I'm Gumby Dammit."

This one says Ryan Gosling as Host with Kate McKinnon. The Alien Abduction. You say nobody does weird like Kate McKinnon.

Abigail Covington: Maybe Kristen Wiig. This sketch sets a high bar. I'm not even sure if I can summarize the premise on NPR.

Alison Stewart: It's three people. They all have allegedly gone up in an alien abduction. They're being debriefed, and her character is the one having an extraordinary experience, shall we say? Let's listen.

?Speaker: Now, after the blue light pulled you into the spacecraft, what is your next memory?

?Speaker: I came to and saw a beautiful being made of, like, a beautiful calming light.

?Speaker: Yeah, same here. That being touched my head. I felt every emotion in its purest form. It was amazing. I cried, sir.

?Speaker: Okay. And you, Miss Rafferty?

Miss Rafferty: Wow. What floor were you guys on? I woke up in a dirty metal dome and 40 little gray aliens watched me pee in a steel bowl. Then they took the bowl, walked out.

Alison Stewart: What do you love about that sketch?

Abigail Covington: This is a masterclass in character work. I think for people who have seen it, they probably remember Kate McKinnon, the way she puffed on her cigarette, her man-spread stance. Again, this is another down-and-out character. Colleen Rafferty already seems like she's been through quite a lot. Now, of course, she's the one who had the weird, perverted experience. I think the other thing about this one is the writing. I hope I don't get bleeped if I quote some of these.

Alison Stewart: I'll show you the list during the break.

Abigail Covington: Sometimes we remember SNL writing because it launches great catchphrases. Then sometimes we remember it like in this sketch because it's just so specific and bizarre. That's really why I love it. There's just some really memorable phrasing in here.

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking to Esquire contributing editor Abigail Covington about the best SNL sketches of all time. We're taking your calls. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of I on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Esquire contributing editor Abigail Covington. We are talking about the best SNL sketches of all time. They're about to have their 50th anniversary. Let's take a couple of calls. Let's talk to Jane from Croton-on-Hudson. Hi, Jane. Thanks for calling. All Of it.

Jane: Wow. I can't believe I'm on. My favorite sketch was a long time ago. I believe it was Bill Murray, Jane Curtin, maybe Dan Aykroyd. They had a shop that sold Scotch tape, and they wore kilts. They had a Scottish accent. Then people would come in and say, "Do you have video tape?" They said, "No, just Scotch tape." It was very, very funny. I don't know if anybody remembers it.

Alison Stewart: I don't but I can picture it.

Abigail Covington: I can picture it. I know it because of the catchphrase. Why is it your favorite? What is it about it that you love?

Jane: Just because it just caught me off guard, and the kilts just killed me. It was just a really, really funny sketch.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling. Let's talk to Mihaly in Manhattan. Hi, Mihaly.

Mihaly: Hi. Glad to be on. My favorite, it's not really a sketch. It was an advertisement where I think Chevy Chase was saying, "Hire the incompetent because the competent, they have no problem getting a job, but the poor incompetent, we have to help them."

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. Is Shelly still available? Hey, Shelly, thanks for calling.

Shelly: Yes. Thank you for taking my call. My favorite is from a long, long time ago. The guest host was Diane Keaton. I forget which company member she was doing this with. There was a very popular song back then called Dueling Banjos, and they did a skit called Dueling Brandos. They would take turns bouncing Marlon Brando lines off each other. Like, one would go, "Stella," and the other one would go, "I could have been a contender." It was just marvelous the way they blended these forms of comedy.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. I want to ask you about Mary Katherine Gallagher played by Molly Shannon. [chuckles] I don't know how to describe her. She's a Catholic school girl who has a certain-- Oh, gosh. What's the best thing to say? Bodily functions, we'll say, about her armpits. Let's just talk about that. She's a great character versus a great sketch. What's the difference?

Abigail Covington: It's a great question. I think a great sketch has to have a lot more going for it than just a great character. You have potentially the great writing, the great catchphrase. I also think great sketches involve more than one cast member, although, I don't know. Pete Davidson's Weekend Update segments are all-- I've taken some heat for that opinion, but I stand by it. I have a lot of characters that I really, really love. The Spartan cheerleaders, Mary Katherine Gallagher, about five other Molly Shannon ones, Ana Gasteyer characters.

Again, a great sketch, it's the ability to transcend time. I was listening to some of the callers who were talking about their favorite sketches. Some of my favorite sketches are not on this list because they don't have that kind of legacy quality.

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Abigail Covington: I had to sacrifice a few personal favorites, including a few personal favorite characters at the altar of popular opinion.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about number 28. You include a pretty recent sketch from Bowen Yang. It's from Weekend Update, and it's called Iceberg Who Sank the Titanic.

Abigail Covington: It's already funny.

Alison Stewart: Exactly. He literally plays the iceberg.

Abigail Covington: Right.

Alison Stewart: The iceberg has an opinion about a few things. Could you share?

Abigail Covington: The iceberg really wants to speak about its new EDM album. Maybe it's Colin Jost. I can't remember which one.

Alison Stewart: It is, yes.

Abigail Covington: They keep on bringing up the Titanic, which Bowen Yang, as the iceberg, is very offended by. I think perhaps his best line. He makes the really good point. He says, "You ran into me," which is a really good argument.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a little bit.

Abigail Covington: Yes.

Bowen Yang: Okay, fine. You wanna do this? Let's do this. First of all, you came to where I live and you hit me. It was midnight. I was chilling. Then I hear this Irish cacophony behind me. Not to be offensive, but like [sound effect]. I'm sorry, that's what it sounded like. Like, full river dance. Before I turn around and go, like, what, half my ass is gone, which was my best feature. I'm literally injured but all anybody cares about is that 40 or 50 people died or whatever.

?Speaker: Well, it was 1,500 people.

Bowen Yang: Why are you attacking me?

Alison Stewart: That really helped put Bowen Yang on the map. Totally.

Abigail Covington: It also changed the Weekend Update segments. We had a lot more guests who were-- usually they were people. They were characters. Now we're getting owls. Now we're getting Moo Deng, now we're getting hurricanes. I also think shout out to the SNL props, like the makeup team.

Alison Stewart: Amazing.

Abigail Covington: That's a huge source of comedy for SNL. Credit where credit is due. I think the iceberg was fantastically dressed and just shocked people that the SNL team was able to create this image.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some more calls. Jennifer from Hoboken is on Line 6. Hey, Jennifer, thanks for calling.

Jennifer: Hi. Thanks so much for taking my call. You were asking about some favorite sketches. I would like to talk about Debbie Downer. I think the sketch itself is just hilarious. Just the other layer to it is how all the actors are just cracking up the whole time, that it's like a joyous thing to watch.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling. Yes, Breaking.

Abigail Covington: Breaking, controversial.

Alison Stewart: What do you think?

Abigail Covington: I've gone back and forth, but today I'm for it.

Alison Stewart: I'm kind of for it a little bit.

Abigail Covington: I'm for it. Why not? It always makes things better. It reminds you that this show is live, that it's spontaneous. Most people aren't breaking on purpose. Lindsay Lohan was really trying to keep it together in that one. I think Breaking, ultimately it's a joyful thing.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Jim from Brick Township. Hey, Jim, thanks so much for calling All Of It.

Jim: Hi. Great show. I have to give an extra plug. It's not the one I mentioned to the screener, but King Tut that Steve Martin did. If anybody's depressed, that is on YouTube. They've cleaned it up, and it's a two-minute, solidly shot thing with music. It's excellent. What I called in about was Kevin Nealon delivering the editorials or a successive series of topics. He would get very animated and then after literally about 25 or 30 seconds, seize upon another item. Then he would dismiss what he said, "Forget what I said before. This is what's really important." Then he would repeat that. He'd go through five or six of them. It was very clever.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for the call, Jim. Let's talk to Dave from the Lower East Side. Hey, Dave.

Dave: Hey. Thanks for having me. While not really a skit, the Phil Hartman commercials specifically for Colon Blow is some of the best visual comedy they've had. When he's sitting at the breakfast table and the narrator says, "You'd have to have 1,000 bowls of your normal breakfast cereal," and they just appear under his chair and lift him into the air is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling. How did you differentiate between the sketches and the pre-recorded bits?

Abigail Covington: Who knows?

Alison Stewart: Okay. That's a fine answer.

Abigail Covington: I really treated them equally. The pre-recorded bits, they've been around now for so long in various forms from digital shorts, now to Pease Don't Destroy's micro-moments. The commercial parodies started a long time ago. They used to do a series of sketches during the Eddie Murphy era that were pre-taped white, like me. I treated them equally because I think they've been equally meaningful to the show.

Alison Stewart: We've got Stefan, John Mulaney, Cha Cha Slide with Ego Nwodim. Church lady. Roseanne Roseannadanna, Gilda Radner, definitely one of the iconic funniests. Let's talk about women on SNL. Tina Fey as Sarah Palin.

Abigail Covington: Oh, game changer.

Alison Stewart: Game, explain?

Abigail Covington: Talk about impact.

Alison Stewart: Yes. She did have an impact on that election.

Abigail Covington: Yes, I think she really did. Her impression of Sarah Palin I think has become synonymous with Sarah Palin. I don't know if it changed the way people saw Palin, but it maybe cemented some of their feelings about her or it highlighted some of the things that she was catching heat for during that election. I think the brilliance of those sketches was how little they changed from the source material. Restraint isn't something we talk about a lot in sketch comedy. Everything has to be fast and loud. Those sketches, "I can see Russia from my house," which was a line. Seth Meyers was the head writer at the time. I can't remember who wrote it, but that was only a very, very slight variation of what Sarah Palin actually said. If the joke already works,-

Alison Stewart: -stay with it.

Abigail Covington: Yes.

Alison Stewart: This is from a scene where Fey as Palin and Amy Poehler as Hillary Clinton, they are giving a speech together. Let's listen.

Fey as Palin: While our politics may differ, my friend and I are both very tough ladies. You know, it reminds me of a joke we tell in Alaska.

Poehler as Clinton: Oh, boy.

Fey as Palin: What's the difference-

Poehler as Clinton: Lipstick.

Fey as Palin: -between a hockey mom--

Poehler as Clinton: Lipstick and a pit bull. Lipstick. Lipstick.

Fey as Palin: There you go.

Poehler as Clinton: Just look at how far we've come. Hillary Clinton, who came so close to the White House, and me, Sarah Palin, who is even closer. Can you believe it, Hillary?

Fey as Palin: I can not.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about hosts. You named Steve Martin as the number one SNL host of all time. What earned him this distinction?

Abigail Covington: Oh, gosh. I mean, he just established what an SNL host could be, because I don't think the show really knew what it could be. He really built a template that then people like Tom Hanks, Christopher Walken-- Well, I don't know exactly what template Christopher Walken is following. His own. Steve Martin just sort of built the mold. I think he did recurring characters. He invented the idea that a host could come back, that a host could really also be part of the show. He was the first kind of extended family member. It's hard when the obvious choice is the right choice because sometimes you're tempted to make a surprising argument for a different number one. Steve Martin is just brilliant and versatile and has meant a lot to the show over the years and just really explored the entire range of what a host could be.

Alison Stewart: Were there any other sketches that you really struggle with? Like, "Ah, this could be 51, this could be 52," that you really had a hard time?

Abigail Covington: Oh, only about 200.

[laughter]

Abigail Covington: I think the list does capture-- all of the ones that you think should be on there are probably on there. I had to make some hard cuts, some Will Forte sketches that are just some real dark horses, some deep cuts. Like Amy Poehler in I'm No Angel when she's a pregnant woman trying to hit on. I think it's Josh Brolin in a bar, to the song I'm No Angel.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my God, that's so funny.

Abigail Covington: Yes. I chose Melissa McCarthy sketches that are-- Her Sean Spicer impression was memorable. It had huge impact. Trump responded to it. My personal favorite, when she plays a women's basketball coach in the NCAA with major anger issues.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my God.

Abigail Covington: Outside the line. A deep cut. Watch it. Please watch it. I couldn't put that one on the list. Now I've shouted it out so I'm satisfied.

Alison Stewart: My favorite was Black Jeopardy with Tom Hanks.

Abigail Covington: Oh, totally.

Alison Stewart: Straight down the line.

Abigail Covington: Just smart subvert. Unexpected.

Alison Stewart: Exactly. I've been speaking with Esquire contributing editor Abigail Covington about the best SNL sketches of all time in anticipation of their 50th anniversary. It's a big weekend this weekend.

Abigail Covington: They have maxed out the programming. Lots going on, lots to watch, I'm sure there will be shenanigans.

Alison Stewart: Shenanigans is the perfect word. Thanks, Abigail.

Abigail Covington: Thank you.