[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In just under five hours, I will see many of you at the New York Public Library. Tonight is our Get Lit with All Of It book club event. I will be in conversation with author Dinaw Mengestu about his novel Someone Like Us. Get this, we will have some live music from Angélique Kidjo. The Fun starts at 6:00 PM tonight. Now, there are a couple of free tickets. Only a couple, though, so get them now at wnyc.org/getlit. Again, that's wnyc.org/getlit. We will see you tonight. Now let's get this hour started with-- [doorbell rings] Well, who could that be? I don't know. [creaky door opens]

Lyrics: Trick or treat, smell my feet. Give me something good to eat. If you don't, I won't be sad. I'll just make you wish you had.

Alison Stewart: All right, you kids are early. Come back tomorrow. Bye. Don't egg my house. That's right, listeners, tomorrow is Halloween, which means we're about to be extorted by children looking for candy. Yes, we have kids in scary costumes of all stripes marauding around neighborhoods, but the spookiest Halloween fact of all is that chocolate prices are on the rise.

[scream]

Alison Stewart: In response, an article claims that manufacturers are putting their faith in other kinds of candies like gummies, for cheaper ways to satisfy our sugary cravings. To join us now to talk about the latest consumer advice in the candy market and other broader economics of Halloween, please welcome Washington Post retail reporter Jaclyn Peiser. Hi, Jaclyn.

Jaclyn Peiser: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners. We are talking about trends in Halloween candy and we need you to weigh in. How do you think about stockpiling your bowls and buckets full of trick-or-treaters to pillage? Are you feeling any sticker shock this year from inflation or the price of chocolate in particular? 212-433-9692. 212-433-WYNC. You can also tell us your favorite candy if you like. 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. We are talking Halloween candy. Let's just lay a little groundwork. How does this year's candy consumption compare to last year's?

Jaclyn Peiser: The National Retail Federation puts out projections every year leading up to holidays. Candy sales are still going to be pretty impressive this year. They're projecting a $3.5 billion spend on candy, but that's actually less than last year just because last year was record highs. We are going to see higher prices on some of these sweets in the grocery stores.

Alison Stewart: How does that compare to even 10 years ago, 20 years ago?

Jaclyn Peiser: We've seen over the last couple of years inflation in grocery stores just skyrocketing. That in itself has caused prices to go up. Chocolate is very dependent on commodity prices, the price of cocoa, so it tends to fluctuate in general. The last couple of years it's just been a lot higher I think, combined with the general inflationary issues we saw during the pandemic.

Alison Stewart: When we're looking at these statistics about candy, where do they come from? How are they compiled? What kind of metrics and methodologies go into tracking the candy economy?

Jaclyn Peiser: There are a lot of different confectionery groups that track this. For me, I think one of the best ways is just to look at these confectionery companies themselves and what they're saying about the cost of the goods that go into making these sweets. Chocolate itself is a little bit more volatile because the cocoa crop is a little bit more susceptible to climate issues. We've seen that over the last couple of years. A lot of these companies are just warning of prices even going up next year as well.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we're talking about trends in Halloween candy and we need you to weigh in. What are you hoping to have left over after the trick-or-treaters have gone through your candy jar? How have your sweet tooth preferences changed over time? Maybe you're one of the people working on switching from gummies because of the price of chocolate. 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. We can also take your calls on trick-or-treating best practices. Whether you're a thieving parent, you decide to go through the candy, you let your kids have as much as they want. How much do you ration of sugar? How much is too much sugar on Halloween night? 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC.

My guest is Jaclyn Peiser. She's from The Washington Post. We're talking about Halloween candy and its sales. All right, we've been talking about chocolate. It is becoming really, really difficult to purchase chocolate on a budget. Tell us first of all, where does it come from and what does the agricultural industry look like for this product?

Jaclyn Peiser: Cocoa trees thrive near the equator. About 75% of what is produced is within the Ivory Coast, Ghana, Cameroon, Nigeria. Those regions of the last couple of years have been susceptible to some climate issues. The crop of 2022-2023 dealt with above-average rainfall, which caused crop disease. Then the most recent crop season, they're dealing with drier conditions that are caused by the El Niño that are bringing in warmer winds that are carrying dust and damaging the crop. That in itself is causing a simple supply and demand issue. There's not enough cocoa, so the cost is skyrocketing and that's being eventually passed down to the consumers.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about the factors that have impacted the growth of cocoa beans. It's cocoa beans? Yes. What have they been in recent years?

Jaclyn Peiser: Over the years before the pandemic, it was pretty steady but commodities prices are just really susceptible to things that aren't under our control. The last couple of years have just caused it to go up just because of these issues. Next year, they're expecting the crop to actually even out and that a lot of these cocoa growers are going to benefit from some of the extra money they've made off of this supply-demand issue and then invest that back into their crops. By Halloween in two years, we'll see chocolate prices probably go down, which is according to some analysts I talked to.

Alison Stewart: What kind of climate issues are you talking about? Is it rain? Is it too dry? Is it both?

Jaclyn Peiser: It's both. Last year it was about rain, this year it's about dry weather. We see this outside of chocolate too. Commodities that are even grown in the US are really susceptible to climate issues. You have to just be flexible. Sometimes it's out of the control of these confectionery companies.

Alison Stewart: You make chocolate, it's not selling as well, perhaps because it costs too much. What are some of the supply chain's concerns for non-chocolate-based candies?

Jaclyn Peiser: This has kind of forced these companies to diversify what they're offering. It's interesting because it's kind of reacting to a demand from consumers. Some analysts I talked to said that they've seen that Gen Z and millennial consumers are more interested in gummy and sour and chewy candy than chocolate. To meet that demand, these companies are off being innovating and they're offering new, different flavors, variety packs, and specialty seasonal items. It's also beneficial for them because they're able to stretch out a little bit beyond the chocolate to be able to cover themselves with cocoa prices going up.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a few calls. Let's speak to Lori in Maplewood, New Jersey. Hi, Lori, thanks for calling All Of It.

Lori: Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. We get about 350 to 400 kids every year.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Lori: I can't afford the chocolate. We've gone from giving out individually wrapped cookies to now we found a trust for the example of giving out fortune cookies because they're cheap and the kids love it.

Alison Stewart: That's an excellent workaround. Thank you so much for calling. Listeners, we're talking about trends in Halloween candy. We need you to weigh in. How do you think about stocking your bowls or buckets for trick-or-treaters? 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. What are you hoping to have left over after trick-or-treaters have fallen into a sugar coma? How has your sweet tooth preference changed over time? 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC.

Parents, we want your feedback as well. How do you decide how much to plunder of your kids' haul? How much is too much candy on Halloween night? 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Jaclyn Peiser. She's Washington Post's retail reporter. We're talking about the consumer and the candy industry as we are talking. You mentioned gummies, that gummies are huge with Gen Z. Tell me a little more about that.

Jaclyn Peiser: I think it's kind of a combination of the fact that the price of chocolate has ticked up in the last couple of years. I also just think there's just this renewed interest in these different kinds of sweets. These companies are really catering to that. Look at Nerds Gummy Clusters, I feel like, is a really good example of this because people love them. They came out a couple of years ago and they're just one of the most popular sweets and they're majority of sales for Nerds company. They're the company that manufactures the nerds.

They have all these different flavors. They have special ones for Halloween. They have special varieties for Christmas. They introduced this new innovation, this new kind of suite that maybe we hadn't seen before, or a variety of what people already like with Nerds or Nerd Ropes and then innovating and offering new options to bring consumers in and to keep them interested and attracted. Retailers love it too because it's bringing people into the candy aisle year-round.

Alison Stewart: There's been all these articles about Gummy Clusters, the next generation. They keep quoting Candy Scientists in the articles. Can you tell us a little bit how they go about researching and figuring out what candy people want to buy?

Jaclyn Peiser: I haven't done a lot of reporting on these people who do the innovation themselves, but I know that it's a big discussion among every consumer-backed packaged goods company. It's just essential for them to come up with new creative options to bring people in. We have short attention spans and people can get sick of things and they want the new fun thing to try. Coming from the higher perspective of it, which I have a little bit more insight on, is that it's really emphasized on these companies that they have to be making changes to keep people interested.

Alison Stewart: You talked with our producer about how candy manufacturers are innovating around higher chocolate prices. What do those innovations look like?

Jaclyn Peiser: One analyst that I talked to said just to pay attention to the different kinds of ways that they're using chocolate through this year and next year. She said any product that requires less cocoa. Milk chocolate requires less cocoa than say dark chocolate. Also more chocolate-coated items. You may also see more filling-in items, maybe more almonds or walnuts in your candy, candy bar than you had seen before. Just little ways to make these subtle adjustments to lower the amount that they'll spend on cocoa without having to pass that cost on to consumers.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some calls. Elaine is calling in from Queens. Hi, Elaine, thanks for calling All Of It.

Elaine: Hi. Thanks for so much. I cannot in good conscience give out any more sugary stuff to kids for their health and for the sugar high it puts them on with their poor parents so we have toys and trinkets in the attic and we just put them in a little bowl and leave them out there. Whatever they want, they can take.

Alison Stewart: What kinds of toys and trinkets?

Elaine: I have little dolls and toy brooms. Just all kinds of strange things that I've been collecting over the years. I thought, "I got to throw this out. Wait a minute, some kids would love this," so that's what I'm doing.

Alison Stewart: All right, Elaine, thanks for weighing in. Cindy's calling in from Bayshore. Hi, Cindy, thanks for calling All Of It.

Cindy: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hey, what's up?

Cindy: Well, I have decided I don't buy candy anymore. I was just telling your caller that I'm 65 and I still love candy, any kind of candy. It's pathetic, I know. I will eat anything, whatever comes my way that has sugar in it. This year I decided instead, and the prices, I've been buying the little individually wrapped cupcakes, the Yodels and Ding Dongs, and whatever, they were on sale. I bought a few boxes. Then I bought one of those jumbo boxes of chips. I figure, look, the kids get all the candy, and now this time they're getting little cakes and some potato chips or cheesy things. I think they'll like it.

Alison Stewart: You sound like a woman with a plan. Thank you so much for calling, Cindy. Let's talk to Ann from Staten Island. Hi, Ann. Thank you so much for calling in.

Ann: Oh, you're welcome. I was calling in more about the chocolate, the increase in price because I use cacao powder and it's unsweetened. It's made from the bean. I've noticed the price has doubled in the past few months in terms of this. I'm famous for my chocolate brownies, which I give to trick-or-treaters who know me. They know it's safe. Also, it's my secret in chili, but everybody knows it now. I put cacao powder and I balance it with a double amount of sugar. If it's two tablespoons of cacao, it's four of sugar. Just recently I won first prize at my church for my vegetarian chili. Anyway, that's my suggestion.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for the tips. We appreciate it. Ann. Did you want to respond to anything that you heard there, Jacklyn?

Jaclyn Peiser: Yes. The point about the cacao powder is directly related to what we're talking about. Tthey're all coming from the same place, so it makes sense that it's doubled. I'm sorry that this is hurting your chili recipe, but I'm really intrigued now. I want to try this.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we're asking you to weigh in about Halloween candy. What are you hoping to have leftover after the trick-or-treaters leave? Maybe you're one of the people working on switching to gummies because of the price of chocolate, or maybe inflation can pry your chocolate away from your cold dead hands. Our number is 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. You can text us or you can call in and join us. My guest is Jaclyn Peiser from The Washington Post.

In your article, you report on how consumers' priorities have changed, including bigger investments in holidays like Halloween. As people deal with inflation, why do you think people are still willing to spend on the holidays?

Jaclyn Peiser: For a lot of folks, the holidays are considered an essential. Throughout the year we could say that essentials that we will spend on is groceries, gas, other household items like say toilet paper. During the holidays, people who really care save and they want to be able to spend. We see that very much so during Christmas time and Thanksgiving and leading into Black Friday, people still want to spend during that time of year. Some people really love Halloween and they're willing to spend.

Even one analyst that I talked to said, "People that love chocolate are still going to buy the chocolate." We're still going to make a concession for the sweet treats, the little things that we want. We saw that during the pandemic with higher prices of chips. People were still generally, until recently, were really still buying those items because they wanted them. That's similarly during Halloween time people will splurge on something that they love.

Alison Stewart: I also think Halloween, there's no drama.

Jaclyn Peiser: Yes. Well, hopefully.

Alison Stewart: Well, sort of. You know what I mean, there's no family drama. There's nothing I have to deal with. There's not a present I have to get anybody. It's just I have to dress up a little bit. That's why I think actually a lot of people like adults like Halloween.

Jaclyn Peiser: Yes, unless it's those trick-or-treaters that were at the top of the show.

[laughter]

Jaclyn Peiser: During these times-- It's a very tumultuous time right now. Consumers are just trying to grapple onto something that's going to make them feel good. We see that from everything from spending on experiences to buying candy. These times of year can bring in a little bit of an excuse to be able to splurge and Halloween is no exception to that.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Andrea calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Andrea.

Andrea: Oh, hi. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. I live in a building that has trick-or-treaters come door to door and I want to participate because I think it's fun. I went to buy some candy. I, like some of your other callers, felt hesitation to buy the typical bars of chocolate with lots of sugar and processed ingredients.

I found online something called Lärabar Minis. It's not perfect, it's not an apple, but it includes mostly natural ingredients like dates and peanuts, applesauce, and sea salt. I just thought it would be a great alternative. I ordered them, they come in a mini size. They're bite-sized pieces. They've got low carbohydrates, low sugar, and each even a little bit of protein. I'm happy to be handing those out this year.

Alison Stewart: Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for calling. This text says, "I still buy chocolate! I love Halloween and I love how much kids love it and it's worth it to me." That's a really nice text. You noted that you have started to see Halloween candy and other accouterments in retail placements as early as July of this year. You often get the complaint, "It gets earlier and earlier every year," whether it's pumpkin spice or Halloween. What are the economic factors driving that earlier and earlier phenomenon?

Jaclyn Peiser: I would say it's twofold. I spoke to a very high-up executive at one of the biggest retailers in the country. I asked him about this. He said some of it is simply just because of the space in the store. They have a designated area. You probably noticed this in your local grocery store where they have seasonal items. When one event ends, when 4th of July was over, they've got to fill it up with something, and what's next? Halloween, so they start filling it in.

I think also, it brings people into that newness thing we talked about earlier. It's fun, it's exciting to kind of be reminded, "Oh, fall's around the corner." They're already getting ready for Christmas. I was at my local Safeway store the other day and they had Christmas stuff, more Christmas stuff than Halloween. They're really inching it up. It's partially spaced, but I guess it works, consumers are buying it, and they're excited to see it there.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Mary Kay, who's calling in from Long Branch, New Jersey. Hi, Mary Kay, thanks for calling All Of It.

Mary Kay: Hi, thanks for. Thanks for taking the call. I just. I wanted to add something to the Halloween treat.

Alison Stewart: Okay, go for it.

Mary Kay: I did it last year and I hope to do it again tomorrow. I generally work on Halloween, so I make a little display and I leave water bottles out for the kids. They liked it last year. They were grateful.

Alison Stewart: You know what, I bet their parents are pretty happy to have some water along to down the gummies with.

Jaclyn Peiser: Yes, that's smart.

Alison Stewart: Mary Kay, thanks a lot. I'm sort of curious and this might throw you a little bit for a loop, but I've been wondering about Instagram and candy shops, which are big in New York. There's a couple of candy shops that have recently opened up that have the gummies. Every time I walk by one, there's one on their way near WNYC, there's a line. A line out the wazoo for this candy.

Jaclyn Peiser: Is it BonBon?

Alison Stewart: It's not BonBon. BonBon is really good. I got a lot of gifts from those when I was out. Love it. I think [unintelligible 00:20:57] Lil Sweet Treat. It's delicious. I went in. It's small. I'm wondering if there's something about the gummy world and Instagram, some sort of engagement, some sort of-- I don't know. I'm wondering what you think.

Jaclyn Peiser: I love that question. In my head, I'm also thinking of TikTok too, because it's so easy for things to go viral. We mentioned BonBon, the Swedish candy.

Alison Stewart: It's so good.

Jaclyn Peiser: I was just deluged with that on TikTok about that candy. Then I think there was another person going viral on TikTok and this is maybe that store who was opening her own candy shop and people were going to support her. It's kind of like any other item. You see someone talk about an item authentically. If it starts out as something that maybe wasn't sponsored, it's just an authentic influencer or just any random person talking about something they love. We like to get recommendations for things and then it just explodes.

Candy is not any different in that kind of sense to, say, a popular handbag or a song that goes viral. We see people that we respect talking about it, and then we want to be part of it.

Alison Stewart: We got a text that says, "I spent about $200 on chocolate gummies and hard candy and I was surprised how excited the kids were about what they told me was Grandma Candy." Grandma Candy?

Jaclyn Peiser: Is that like Werther's Original or something? Interesting.

Alison Stewart: I'm a little upset by that. You cite statistics from the National Retail Federation that suggest that the average person spends a little over $100 on Halloween, including decorations and candy. Do you have a sense of how much variation there is in that average and what that suggests about our collective Halloween spending habits?

Jaclyn Peiser: Consumers, from what I can see from the National Retail Federation, the splitting up of how much they're spending, it seems like costumes and decorations are a bit more than the candy spend, but they're all pretty equal. I think that just goes to show that maybe consumers who are really into Halloween are going all-in in all aspects, or maybe some people are more into costumes and not decorations. It kind of just shows that people are willing to spend on something that they enjoy.

Alison Stewart: Jan from Middletown, you're going to have the last word. Go for it, Jan. Jan from Middletown.

Jan: Yes. Hi. I love Halloween. It was a fun time for us, and I believe in giving all that [unintelligible 00:23:30] crap and candy, like [unintelligible 00:23:32], bottle pops, and ring pops, and the kids really like it, so for one day, they can have a sugar high.

Alison Stewart: All right, Jan, we appreciate your call. Jaclyn, what's your favorite candy?

Jaclyn Peiser: I love a sour gummy candy. That's my advice. This whole trend is really working for me, unfortunately. I love a sour punch straw or sour punch bite. Something that's chewy and a little tart. What about you?

Alison Stewart: I'm same. with you. I'm with you. Jaclyn Peiser is from The Washington Post. Thanks so much.

Jaclyn Peiser: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: I want candy.

[MUSIC - Bow Wow Wow: I Want Candy]

Lyrics: I want candy. I want candy. I want candy.