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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show, we're celebrating 50 years of Big and Little Edie. It's been half a century since the landmark documentary Grey Gardens hit theaters. We'll speak to Rebekah Maysles, daughter of filmmaker Albert Maysles, and Spanish musician Rosalia has been playing on repeat over here in the All OF It studios. We have the team from the podcast Switched On Pop here to help break down the new album from the flamenco-trained pop star. We'll take your calls.

Plus, Flesh is the winner of the 2025 Booker Prize, we'll speak with its author. That's the plan. Speaking of books, let's get this started with the New York Public Library's best books of 2025.

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Alison Stewart: A book can make a great gift during the holidays, but it's hard to know what book is the right fit for the right person. The New York Public Library has you covered with its new list of the best books of 2025. The list features selections for adults, teens, and young kids, as well as Spanish readers. As part of the list this year, the library is offering book giveaways and free, no wait, ebook access for certain titles. Joining me now to talk about some of the selections and how you can get more involved is Brian Bannon, director of branch libraries and education at the New York Public Library. Hi, Brian.

Brian Bannon: Hi. Nice to see you.

Alison Stewart: Nice to see you as well. The library put together this list that includes more than 200 titles. How did you and your team go about deciding what books to include?

Brian Bannon: Yes. We have 225 titles this year. I think what is really fun-- I'm a career librarian, and so this is starting the holiday season early. We have over 80 librarians, from children's librarians to young adult librarians to adult services librarians. They're looking at all the books that came out in 2025. We break it off into a bunch of different teams. In addition to being New Yorkers themselves and big readers in the various different genre categories, these are folks who are also talking to New Yorkers in their branches, in their communities.

This list, for us, it makes up what we see as the best materials for young readers, little kids. If you've got little ones in your life, this is a great list to look at if you're thinking about some holiday gifts. If you've got a teen in your life that is either a reluctant reader or a voracious one, we've got something for them as well. Then what's also really fun about this is so many of the lists of best, they generally focus on one or two genre types. We look at them all, and so what we know is that New Yorkers are reading really broadly. They like horror, they like thriller. New Yorkers love a great biography and a cookbook.

We cover the whole spectrum. We have like-- I think it's like almost 20 individual teams of people who are doing all of these reviews. This is the best of what we find for the year. We've announced it. We announced it yesterday at the Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library. I've read some of them already. Also, this reading list, as I head into the holiday season and the cold season.

Alison Stewart: I'm sure the library has tons and tons of data available to you. How much does the books checking-- of people checking out the book, does that factor into it?

Brian Bannon: Yes, listen, we look at all of those factors, but this is a little bit nuanced. We also, as a preview, later in the year, we're actually going to do our top checkouts. Though this is specifically the data on what people actually read last year and in what volume. It's really fun. We'll do our top 10 New York City-wide. We'll do our top 10 in the Bronx, Manhattan, Staten Island, Queens, Brooklyn. While our librarians do look at some of the data, and again, we're talking to patrons and those kinds of things. This is really intended to have a bit of a curatorial mindset to it.

I like to think of it as we all have our-- for readers, the genres that we tend to gravitate towards. For me, this is always a great one for, if you're wanting to, for example, explore romantasy a little bit or romance, this is going to be the best romance that came out this year if you want to explore that, or if you're not really a thriller reader. I'm not really a thriller reader. They're a little too scary for me. I read one of the thrillers on the books list this year. It's also a great way to help people who are interested in trying a new genre type to take a look at it, or those people who are just dedicated lovers of a particular genre, then we're going to give them the best of those for the year. It's a combo of a little bit of what patrons are saying. Also, the people who are reviewing this, they're generally really experts in these areas and are really tracking it closely and trying to surface the best of the genre categories.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to get you in here. What is your favorite book that you've read this year, and why? We want to hear about a book that really hooked you, a book that was released in 2025. Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. What did you enjoy the most about the book? What is the recommendation you have for someone who wants to give a new book for the holidays? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Brian Bannon, director of branch libraries and education at the New York Public Library. We're discussing the library's lists of best books of 2025. Before we get into the books, I want to talk about the ebooks that you have made available. Tell us more.

Brian Bannon: Yes. We've often done these lists-- this is a long-standing practice of libraries. Here's the thing. As soon as we announce the list, there's a run on the books. It's a little bit of a womp womp, "Hey, you can check out the book, and you can read it next spring," because there's a long wait for it. This year, we're doing something that's actually taking a note from the book club that we do with you. Many of your listeners, I'm sure, are aware of the monthly book club that we do with your show. We've been able to do unlimited licensing for ebooks and audiobooks for a number of years, as well as augmenting our print collection.

That's actually what we did this year for the very first time. We negotiated licensing and we selected 25 titles of the 225 titles across children's, teen, and adults. In announcing this year, there is going to be titles that you can check out right now with zero wait through the end of the calendar year. A number of them-- I could [unintelligible 00:07:17] a few of them, but you go to our website and you can see it. They're available now, and they will be through the end of the year. We're also doing some book giveaways. They're going fast, but those will make some great stocking stuffers and gifts for the season as well.

Alison Stewart: Yes, I understand yesterday, they had a book giveaway. That sounds like so much fun.

Brian Bannon: We did at our central library, Stavros Niarchos. We're also doing-- did it in the Bronx, as well as St. George and Staten Island.

Alison Stewart: All right, let's get into some books. I know you read this one, King of Ashes by SA Cosby. That was our October Get Lit pick. Why do you think it made the list? What was it about this book that really caught your attention?

Brian Bannon: He is, obviously, a really well-known writer in this genre category. I actually had not read any of his books before. This is, again, what's so great about our book club is-- I read it along with New Yorkers, and in fact, I'm in another book club with a group of folks at my gym, and a subset of us actually read this book as a bonus, and then came to the live in-person event. I think the writing is spectacular, and so those who are maybe a little timid about trying out a thriller, it's the storytelling, the writing, the suspense. There is some gore. You got to be-- I generally stray away from that.

I actually thought, for me, as someone who was dipping my toe in, it was a great read. We had a lot of fun with it, and it was a great conversation. For folks, if they-- I think it's available if people want to watch you in conversation with him. Is that right?

Alison Stewart: Yes, definitely. You can watch on our channel and on YouTube. This is interesting. I have a clip from our big event, our Get Lit event with SA Cosby. I asked him about the setting for this book about a family facing off against a gang. It took place in Jefferson Run, Virginia. Let's listen.

SA Cosby: Jefferson Run is actually based on a city in Virginia called Petersburg, Virginia, which is about 40 miles outside of Richmond. A lot of the gentrification and issues that Jefferson Run suffers are issues that Petersburg has suffered. Petersburg used to be the number one manufacturer of house windows in America in the '40s and '50s. Once manufacturing moved out, of course, the shadow industry, that is crime, moved in. I really wanted to talk about that in a way that wasn't heavy-handed in using the Carruthers family as a prism to talk about how the economy of this place can affect not just the way people behave, but the way people feel, the way their spirits are broken, in a way.

For me, the idea of Jefferson Run was to show this place that has the potential to be great, or was once great. Much like a lot of places in the South, the curse of Southern Gothic fiction is that the corruption of the land represents the corruption of the soul. I wanted to talk about that in a way that I hope would bring people into the conversation.

Alison Stewart: Things I love about him, everything with him is so layered in the way he talks about things and writes about things.

Brian Bannon: Yes. I think he really brought us into also a pretty unusual storyline. When I was talking to one of the guys in my book club, we actually both, in some ways, identified with Roman, the protagonist. I don't want to do any spoilers, but those of you who've read it or if you read it, I think it's a question to ask yourself, who are the Romans in your life? This is a young man who's returning back home-- I'm not going to, again, going to give a lot away about the book, but there's aspects, as you said, in terms of the layers that are-- They're about community, they're about space, they're also about family and what it means to go away and come back again.

Again, there's just so much to it. I think oftentimes this genre type people are like, "Oh, it's just a fast read," and as you said, it's great writing and so much layering, and really it takes you on an incredible journey.

Alison Stewart: Let's go to some calls. Julie is calling in from Sea Girt, New Jersey. Hi Julie, thanks for making the time to call All Of It.

Julie: Oh, of course. Good to be here. Thanks for taking my call. The book, this year, called The Scrapbook by Heather Clark, is just a really nice historical fiction romance that I read, and the reason why-- I knew that she had written a book about Sylvia Plath a couple years ago that was really critically acclaimed. Lately, a lot of people have been talking about how Sylvia Plath is being compared to-- What's her name? Taylor Swift.

Alison Stewart: Taylor Swift?

Julie: Yes. I don't know, Heather Clark's book is called Red Comet: The Blazing Art and Short Life, or something like that, of Sylvia Plath.

Alison Stewart: You know what was really great? She was actually one of our full bios, that book on Sylvia Plath. It was an amazing, an amazing book you should read as well. Let's talk to Carrie from Greenwich Village. Hey, Carrie, thanks for calling All Of It.

Carrie: Thank you. I'd like to recommend Kevin Wilson's 2025 book, Run for the Hills, which it's very surprising, very unusual, and deeply humane, but fun. Sometimes, humane is a term that then leads to sorrow. It's about different family members who find out that their father was the same man, and he was a serial leaver of families and the leaver of his then occupation. Each time they come upon a new family member, the father has been, for years, a farmer or a novelist and so on. It's about their journey to find each other and then to find the father all the way across America. It's just unusual and so much fun and so surprising.

Alison Stewart: I love hearing you say that it's fun. That reading is a fun thing to do. Let's go back to your list, Brian. The Buffalo Hunter by Stephen Graham Jones. NPR has called this book a masterpiece. Tell us about the premise of the book. Brian, can you hear me?

Brian Bannon: Yes, I'm back. I don't know what happened there.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Tell us about the premise of Stephen Graham Jones' The Buffalo Hunter.

Brian Bannon: Sorry. You can hear me okay? Yes. Buffalo Hunter, I'm about midway through. This is one of our top picks on the list. This is-- It actually is in the horror category. Again, I don't typically read horror, but a number of my friends who love horror, but also just particularly love his writing, had recommended it. This is an indigenous storytelling. It takes place around-- well, across time and place. 1910, Montana to present. It's, again, really beautifully written. There's some scary aspects of someone who's on the loose.

I don't really want to give too much more away, but it feels like a strange, immersive storytelling that it opens with a young woman who's reading the journals of her grandfather. The grandfather's in conversation with a Blackfeet tribe member who is recounting his experience and telling the story of the buffalo hunter, which is again, it's creepy, it's scary, and it's also beautiful.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. Robert from White Plains. Hey, Robert, thanks for calling All Of It.

Robert: Thanks for taking my call.

Alison Stewart: What did you read?

Robert: I read The Fate of the Day by Rick Atkinson. It's the second volume of his trilogy and the American Revolution. It's deeply researched, wonderfully written, and not just military history. It examines the impact of the war on ordinary citizens, and it also gives you the perspective of the British as well. I would note that Rick Atkinson is one of the talking heads in Ken Burns' new documentary. I had read the first volume, and when we were driving to the city, I think it was in April. On All Things Considered, they had an interview with Rick Atkinson about the upcoming second volume. As far as books go, I couldn't have been more excited.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for giving us this call. This text says, "I want to recommend The Boy from the North Country by Samantha Sussman. Beautiful story of the love between a boy and his mother, and the outlook on life that she shows him through the choices she made as she grows up." Our phone number-- We want to know what you read this year. What book did you enjoy that was released in 2025? The number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. After the break, Brian is going to talk to us about birds. That's next.

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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We're discussing the New York Public Library's new list of the best books of 2025. My guest is Brian Bannon, director of branch libraries and education at the NYPL, to walk us through this list. Before the break, I said you were going to talk to us about birds. Specifically, Turning to Birds by Lili Taylor. Tell us a little bit about this book.

Brian Bannon: Yes, Lili Taylor, you may be familiar with her name. She's an actor and she has written this fantastic book. I think it's a great book for people who are interested in birding. I am not a birder, but I have a lot of birders in my life. She really takes you on her own journey as someone who's fallen in love with birding. She's actually on the board of the Audubon Society and has quite a life around birding. What makes it particularly special for New Yorkers is much of the book takes place in New York City.

I was thrilled to find out that one of the favorite birding spots is actually in our backyard in Bryant Park, where my office is, New York Public Library. People come to find the Gray catbird, but she takes you on this incredible adventure around New York City and beyond. In many ways, this book is about attention. It's about patience, and it's about noticing the world around us. It really actually made me want to get into birding. On its own, it's just a fantastic read by a New Yorker. Again, a lot of it takes place in our own city.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Lili Taylor was on our show to talk about the book earlier this year. Here's what she had to say when I asked her how she fits her birding in with her day job.

Lili Taylor: Oh, easy peasy. It's like I-- Because they're everywhere and I'm not fussy. I love just what's happening around. Even just the other day, I was on set and there was some cool bird stuff happening. A mockingbird was going through the night while we were trying to shoot. People were like, "What's that? Why does that keep going? What's happening?" I'm like, "I know, it's a mockingbird." Anyway, the thing is, you can just stand and a bird's anywhere. In fact, it gives me moments of peace.

Alison Stewart: She speaks with such joy about birding every time we talk to her. Let's talk to Ellen in Greenwich Village. Ellen, thank you so much for calling All Of It. What are you reading, or what have you read, I should say?

Ellen: I read Doris Kearns Goodwin's memoir about her husband. He had been a speech writer for Kennedy and Johnson, and she had worked for Johnson. She wrote a wonderful book, which I love her writing because it's clear and straightforward, and simple, but elegant. The information, if you've been-- I lived through both the Kennedy and the Johnson administration, and it's wonderful to see a comparison between the two.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. Brian, I want to get to the teen book section. First, you've chosen Hello Sunshine by Keezy Young, and it's a graphic novel. Why are graphic novels a really good choice for teen readers?

Brian Bannon: Yes, reading for joy and pleasure is probably the most important part of long-term persistence. I think there's a lot of hand-wringing these days about the decline in reading for pleasure. So much of the focus, though, especially in schools, is around teaching reading for the purposes of decoding. We often take out of that the fun part. Graphic novels are just-- it's just a fantastic way of engaging readers of all ages, really. We found with teens, they really gravitate towards this genre type. It's reading, it's engaging, it's immersive. They can share it.

We have put a real effort to make sure that we're profiling great graphic novels. This particular one, it's about a troubled teen who has run away, or at least that's what people think. Yes, it's a great opportunity for teens to engage. It's a very popular book among teens, and that's why we're using it.

Alison Stewart: Another book you have on your list, Loudmouth: Emma Goldman vs. America (A Love Story). This is such an interesting approach to history. How does this book approach history for the teenage reading brain?

Brian Bannon: Really, this is a biography of an activist who was born in the late 1800s and lived till the 1940s, and to a Jewish Lithuanian family and immigrated to the United States, but really was seen as a fierce anarchist and advocate. In a time where there's book banning that's happening nationally and youth voices, I think, and sometimes we're listening less to. This book is really about a young person who, despite controversy and pushback, was finding her own voice. That's really what this book is about. It's written for young people, about a young person, at least in that time of her life.

Alison Stewart: One text says, "I'd like to recommend That's How They Get You: An Unruly Anthology of Black American Humor edited by Damon Young. So many inside jokes truly lifted my spirits." This said, "My favorite book, Harlem Rhapsody by Victoria Christopher Murray. Buckeye by Patrick Ryan. Loved, and it was so beautifully written." Let's also talk to Gina. Gina's calling from Hell's Kitchen. Thanks for holding, Gina, you're on the air.

Gina: Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Alison Stewart: What have you been reading?

Gina: I wanted to give a shout out to one of my favorite nonfiction books this year, and it was The Parrot and the Igloo by David Lipsky. I mean, he won my heart when he did that book on David Foster Wallace many years ago. Picking this up wasn't a stretch, but this one was on climate change, and it was a little daunting. Then I started reading it, and I was hooked. It's written so beautiful with all those horrible facts, truthful facts, mixing with humor. It was just beautifully written.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for the call. I want to get to books for little kids, Brian. By the way, my guest is Brian Bannon from the New York Public Library. We're going through their best books of 2025. You selected, out of all of your books for us to talk about, The Interpreter. In this book, a girl acts like an interpreter in real life. What did you enjoy about the premise of this book by Olivia-- I hope I pronounce your last name right, Abtahi?

Brian Bannon: Yes, this is a beautiful book, and I think it's one that many New York families can relate to. Often, young children end up being fluent in the English as their second language and become the interpreter for their adult parents. This is something I know as a librarian, working with a young child, interpreting for their parent, even in a branch library, trying to get help with health information or taxes, really adult sorts of kinds of responsibilities. A book like this really gets at the heart of what it's like for a young person to be a young person while also serving in this really important role, and the challenges and the experience around that for a young person.

Alison Stewart: In the final category, you released your favorite Spanish books of 2025. You chose Ochún y Yo: Una Historia de Amor y Trenzas. It's about a girl who loves-- It's about braids in her hair, I believe, from the title. Why was it important to you in the New York Public Library to include Spanish-language books as part of this list?

Brian Bannon: Yes, we have, obviously, a large Spanish-speaking population here in New York City. This book is actually in Spanish and in English. One of the other things that I really loved about this book, I had a chance also to meet the author-

Alison Stewart: Oh, nice.

Brian Bannon: -at our event yesterday, is so much of what we hear about representation in books is that kids need to see themselves in books. What's so beautiful about this one is the young woman whose hair is being braided is also in a wheelchair. Often, books that young people-- particularly around disability is that finding books that are about just a child enjoying the world that just happens to have a disability. The book is not specifically about that. I think she's done a beautiful job of really building out this important area of young adult children's books. She's got a number of books that take this question on in a variety of ways, where the book has a child with a very visible physical disability, but it's just not about that, specifically.

Alison Stewart: Before I let you go, did I see that Bruce Springsteen played at the New York Public Library gala a few weeks ago?

Brian Bannon: He was one of our honorees as a lion this year, and he did, impromptu, take out his guitar, and gave us quite a show at the event. It was a pretty special night overall.

Alison Stewart: Brian Bannon is the director of branch libraries and education at the New York Public Library. We're discussing the library's new list of the best books of 2025. You can find them on the website, the library's website. Thank you so much for joining us, Brian. We'll see you at Get Lit on December 4th.

Brian Bannon: All right. Thank you.