Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I am really grateful you are here. Coming up on today's show, we'll continue our coverage of the Tony Awards with a conversation about Sunset Boulevard. The Broadway revival has earned seven Tony nominations, including one for lead actor Tom Francis, who will join us to discuss. Plus, we have another installment of our full bio series about Mark Twain.

Today, biographer Ron Chernow will share a bit about how Twain thought about issues of his time, from politics to racism. Then we'll talk about the outrageous Mitford sisters, a group of siblings whose lives intertwined with some significant political moments across Europe. That is our plan. Let's get this started with an investigation into the world of SoulCycle. Music, please.

[music]

Alison Stewart: Okay, riders, get ready to turn it up. Feel the spirit, feel the energy. Okay, let's ride. In 2006, inside an unassuming building on West 72nd Street, a new company was slowly beginning to change fitness culture in New York. The company was SoulCycle, founded by three women. Word got out that SoulCycle had curated an intense and euphoric spin class experience. It was led by charismatic instructors whose priority was to lift people up and help riders leave, feeling almost spiritually renewed.

The music-driven workouts developed what some say was a cult-level following. A new podcast dives into the history and culture of SoulCycle, including interviews with instructors and writers. The podcast is named Cult of Body and Soul. It's hosted by our guest. It is Jess Rothschild. Nice to meet you.

Jess Rothschild: Hi. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: All right, I'm going to get into your SoulCycle experience before we talk about the podcast. You started spinning there in about 2011, right?

Jess Rothschild: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What do you remember about your first SoulCycle class?

Jess Rothschild: It's funny because my first class was pretty uneventful. I had been going for a while and didn't have a spiritual bond to an instructor, but I was still obsessed with it. Something was definitely pulling me through. I used to scroll the SoulCycle website at work to kill time and just stare at the schedule-

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Jess Rothschild: -and the instructors. One day, a new instructor photo popped up and it was this woman, Stevie Santangelo. I think, instinctually, I felt a connection to her, and I sought out her class. That is the class that truly transformed the course of my life, if you track it over the past decade.

Alison Stewart: What did it offer you? What did SoulCycle offer you that spin classes hadn't at first?

Jess Rothschild: Theater, performance art. They took a typical, like spin class, which if you imagine crunch jam, just a typical class where the lights are on. The music is not connected in any way to what you're doing, like not riding to the rhythm. The music is almost in the background. The instructor is almost in the background. SoulCycle transformed this into a theatrical spiritual experience, and that was the unique identifier.

Alison Stewart: What interested you about the history of SoulCycle and the culture that you wanted to make a podcast about it?

Jess Rothschild: Because I noticed the instructors were truly artists. They were creating theater. The lights are going on and off, they're moving candles around. It's like a 360 experience. I was totally obsessed with the instructor training program. I knew that it was very gate-capped and no one would ever talk about it, because I became friends with Stevie and it was just so vague. I knew it was a certain period of time, like six to eight weeks, but there were no details about it.

To me back then, I was at the brunch table saying, "What the hell are they saying to these people behind closed doors?" I would threaten that I was good to my friends as a joke. I knew I didn't want to become an instructor. Even though I was very into fitness, I knew my journey was not to become a SoulCycle instructor or a fitness instructor, but I would say I think I should audition and go through the training program because it was this itch that I truly couldn't scratch. [laughs] That's a large part of what I was so curious about.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to get you in on this conversation. Do you go to SoulCycle? When did you first start spinning? What do you get out of the workout? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Did you go to the original location on 72nd Street back in the day? Who's your favorite instructor and why? Maybe you want to work out as a SoulCycle instructor, you want to tell us a little bit of the tea. Spill it. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Maybe you go to a competitor. Tell us why. 212-433-WNYC.

First of all, the women who started SoulCycle, they didn't invent spinning. It goes all the way back.

Jess Rothschild: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Tell us a little bit about the person who invented spinning, what its original purpose was.

Jess Rothschild: The person who invented spinning is a man named Johnny G, Johnny Goldberg. He was a South African cyclist. The spin bike was originally invented to help athletes recover from injuries. He built the very first spin bikes by hand, and they would be in his backyard. This is Johnny Goldberg. The spin craze really took off in Los Angeles in the '90s. One of those original spin instructors who really caught fire was this woman, Janet Fitzgerald. She was the guru of one of the women who eventually co-founded SoulCycle. She had her own studio called Body and Soul. That's why the series is called Cult of Body and Soul. It's a play on words.

Body and Soul was Janet Fitzgerald's studio. Tons of celebrities would take her class. Alanis Morissette, Jodie Foster, everybody was spinning there and the other places that Janet taught. Janet would go on to-- they would recruit her to New York to develop that instructor training program. She built and created over 400 SoulCycle instructors through her training program.

Alison Stewart: Back to Johnny G. When did it go from being something that he used for people who biked, who needed inside training, to becoming just part of a routine, something you might see at the gym?

Jess Rothschild: Just over time. Stage stationary bike became a new form of cardio, aside from running and boxing.

Alison Stewart: How did Janet beat into this idea, "There's a stationary bike, but I can do something with it"?

Jess Rothschild: Janet was all about creating a spiritual experience. To her, it was creating a musical experience, an emotional and spiritual experience.

Alison Stewart: Got you.

Jess Rothschild: She is a master at syncing what your body is doing to the music. She always said that her goal was that your body should just know what to be able to do to the music. That's what she really tries to impart onto instructors in training.

Alison Stewart: The original SoulCycle was in New York, founded in New York in 2006. Who was it founded by?

Jess Rothschild: Julie Rice, Elizabeth Cutler, and their third co-founder, who not many people know about, this woman, Ruth Zukerman. She was the person who introduced the two of them. She was their mutual spin instructor at another studio. The very first episode is a lot about uncovering who is Ruth Zukerman and the story behind the founding. Because everyone knows Julia Rice and Elizabeth Cutler. These are the women on the cover of Forbes. Everybody knows these two founders, but the true story of how it's founded has never been told as it is in this series in the very first episode.

Alison Stewart: How would you describe Ruth Zukerman's role in SoulCycle?

Jess Rothschild: She was the face of it originally. She was the face, and she was the original person who they each went to with dreams of opening their spin studio. She brought her riders. She brought the following initially at that 72nd Street location. There wouldn't be SoulCycle without Ruth.

Alison Stewart: What was her start? How did she start out?

Jess Rothschild: She was a fitness instructor, period.

Alison Stewart: More than just a fitness instructor, she had this many followers.

Jess Rothschild: She had a dedicated following. Do you remember Reebok?

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Jess Rothschild: She taught at Reebok and she taught out in the Hamptons. Julie Rice, one of the founders, she was spinning with her at Reebok, and the other one was spinning with Ruth out in the Hamptons. Separately, they had these dreams, and she's like, "Oh, maybe we should all go to lunch." They go to lunch at the Soho House. Four months later, SoulCycle opens. It happened really fast.

Alison Stewart: Wow, that's really interesting. How did it happen so fast?

Jess Rothschild: Because the other two women were sharks in business.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Jess Rothschild: Truly. Truly. Julie Rice was a talent agent in LA. That's where she discovered Janet riding at Body and Soul. She was a talent agent. She worked for Benny Medina, who was-- Benny Medina developed J.Lo, Tyra Banks, even Sean P. Diddy Combs, not to bring him into the conversation. She understood how to turn celebrities into brands. That was what she saw we could do with SoulCycle, is turn these instructors into superstars, and they did.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. This is Roland calling from Westport, Connecticut. Hey, Roland. Thank you so much for making the time to call All Of It.

Roland: Hi. It's so bizarre that I'm calling in about SoulCycle. Anyway, I was the original skeptic. My boyfriend was totally into it, doing it five days a week, and he was talking about how great it was, how spiritual. I was like, "Oh, please, come on." Then I went to a class with Stevie, and, oh, my God, it was like church. Stevie was unbelievable. I was completely--

Alison Stewart: Do I know you?

Roland: I don't know.

Alison Stewart: Okay.

Jess Rothschild: [laughs]

Roland: I don't know. My boyfriend Chris was always in the front row, and of course, I was in the back. Anyway.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Roland: Stevie was just-- she was so amazing. When she stopped, I stopped. Now I'm fat. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Wow. See?

Roland: Anyway, I just wanted to mention that because Stevie is just like a one-of-a-kind thing, I think.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. We appreciate that.

Jess Rothschild: She got me hooked. I'm telling you, this is proof positive.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jess Rothschild. She is the writer and producer of the new podcast Cult of Body and Soul, which looks at how SoulCycle transformed fitness culture in New York. Are you someone who goes to SoulCycle? What do you get out of the workout? Did you go to the original location on 72nd Street back in the day, or maybe you worked as a SoulCycle instructor? What's it like to lead a class? Give us a call or text us now at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC.

Okay, we talked about Julie Rice. She was the agent. We talked about Ruth Zukerman. Explain Elizabeth Cutler, the third woman.

Jess Rothschild: Elizabeth Cutler, she really brought a lot of the spiritual language of SoulCycle. She really imparted where Julie Rice from LA, the talent agent, was all about the marketing, the branding. That's why we know the SoulCycle logo the way we would know the Nike Swoosh. Elizabeth Cutler really said this has to be a spiritual experience. A lot of that language that's used throughout the SoulCycle branding and the smell of it, different elements.

There's a crystal at the back of every SoulCycle bike, and they bless the opening of every studio with an opening of the studio, like a ritual blessing. That crystal is still at the back of every single SoulCycle bike. It's because a lot of energy gets left in the room. The crystal is meant to absorb that energy so that it's a fresh experience for the instructor and the riders every single time.

Alison Stewart: That was?

Jess Rothschild: That was Elizabeth.

Alison Stewart: That was Elizabeth?

Jess Rothschild: Yes.

Alison Stewart: We have the branding. We have the spiritual element. We have Ruth, who's about recruiting the riders.

Jess Rothschild: Initially.

Alison Stewart: Initially.

Jess Rothschild: Initially, yes.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Then they have to find a location, and they find a sort of-- it's an unassuming location. You kind of had to know where it was on 72nd Street. Was that purposeful?

Jess Rothschild: No, no. They found it on Craigslist. They found it on Craigslist.

Alison Stewart: Amazing.

Jess Rothschild: It was an old dance studio, so they had a license. It was already a previous fitness location, so maybe that's why it was easy to get the hookup initially through Craigslist. Because it was in the rear lobby of a building, and according to the lease, they could not use any outside signage. Now, when you pass by a SoulCycle location, there's a huge yellow wheel on the side of every building that is the home of a SoulCycle. None of that existed at first.

In the second episode, I have some of the very first employees describing, like, you make a sharp left, that you make a sharp right the way you would walk through a New York City office building, like a dentist's office, to find the room. I find out to be hilarious the way they describe it. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Betsy, who's calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Betsy. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Betsy: Hey, Alison. Hey, Jess. I wasn't a SoulCycler, but I have some friends who were, and I kind of was abandoned by them since I wasn't part of the cult. One of my friends turned me onto the podcast. I'm really digging it, and it's really cool to listen to all the backstory because anybody that wasn't in was definitely out. I kind of feel like I missed out on something, and now I get to get the whole story. I also really am digging the music, too.

Jess Rothschild: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: That was a big part of it. The music was a big part of it, right?

Jess Rothschild: The music was everything. SoulCycle itself is all about the instructor and the music. I really wanted to imbue the series with that, this series Cult of Body and Soul with that. The entire series is sound design. I have original music composed for the series by Elizabeth Ziff. She was the composer on The L Word. Her band, BETTY, they sang the theme song to The L Word, and every single episode of the series ends with one of their songs.

Alison Stewart: That's pretty cool. It was interesting because they were talking about-- in the series, I listened to the first three episodes. They were talking about how important the music was for the instructor. People used to play a song here and there, but they really learned that the music was a way to get people engaged with spinning.

Jess Rothschild: Well, yes. Part of what Janet really taught in the instructor training program was how to build the playlist. It's all designed based on the beats per minute of each song. When you start a class, it's not like you're immediately sprinting. Maybe the beats per minute are like 120. It's like a slower song where it feels more like a jog rather than a run or a sprint, and you slowly build to a climactic moment where you are essentially sprinting in the class, and then they bring it back down, which is like the 11 o'clock number, which is called the soulful moment. That's when they really say very little.

Somebody says, there was an expression, "Wait, why am I talking? Wait, why am I talking?" This was something that they imparted onto instructors in training. "Don't say anything unless you have something brilliant to say during this moment." That is a moment where they turn off all the lights. They'll move candles around sometimes, at least when I was going really regularly. I haven't seen this in a while, but sometimes they would put the candle on your handlebars and allow you to blow it out. I'm telling you, it was a moment.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Jess Rothschild: I haven't seen that in a while. It was a moment. That is also how they hooked people, by seeking people out and giving people a moment and making you feel like they're special and seen.

Alison Stewart: We're discussing the podcast Cult of Body and Soul with Jess. I keep screwing up your name, Jess Rothschild.

Jess Rothschild: I know. That's why I have friends call me Jesse sometimes because of the--

Alison Stewart: All right, Jesse Rothschild. We'll have more with Jesse after a quick break. This is All Of It

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is rider and host and producer of the podcast Cult of Body and Soul, which looks at how SoulCycle transformed fitness culture. It's Jess Rothschild. If you'd like to get in on the conversation, we'd like to know, did you go to SoulCycle? Do you go to SoulCycle? What do you get out of the class? Our number is 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692.

All right, so we talked about the three founders, yet we really only know a lot about two of them. Why is that?

Jess Rothschild: Because after the first year, they-- I think we're having a lot of internal complications just running a business. Ultimately, Ruth exited, which we really explore in the first episode. She eventually went on to co-found their main competitor, Flywheel.

Alison Stewart: How do we describe it when people leave amicably? Did Ruth leave amicably or no?

Jess Rothschild: Believe it or not, she stayed on as an instructor for two more years after she was no longer an owner-

Alison Stewart: Oh, interesting.

Jess Rothschild: -due to legal-- It had to do with contracts being written. She was no longer an owner. She walked out the door. She was like, "Goodbye." They were like, "Wait, where are you going?" She was like, "I'm out of here." They said, "No, we thought you would at least stay on and teach." After time, she realized she couldn't go back to Reebok meeting $40 a class. All of her riders and her clients were now at SoulCycle, so she stayed on as an instructor for another two years at the place she co-founded and yet was no longer an owner.

Then one day, somebody in her class, a finance guy, came up to her and said, "Hey, I've got an idea, something we can do, which is to add technology to this and add metrics." That is what Flywheel became.

Alison Stewart: You spoke to many instructors for this podcast. What did they tell you about how they were trained? What did they tell you about the lifestyle of a SoulCycle instructor?

Jess Rothschild: The lifestyle is grueling. The training program is grueling. They had to work, Stevie says they had to really work to get into training and to stay in training. They had to ride, I think, several classes a day. They went through lectures and drills and all of these different elements, part of the training program. It's extremely difficult. They are teaching upwards of 16 classes a week, at least in the heyday, the schedule, either a full-time instructor, would be 12 to 16 classes.

However, one instructor became a full-blown phenomenon even outside of the existing frenzy that was SoulCycle. He's a Turkish tennis prodigy named Akin Ackman. Any fitness junkie in New York City knows about Akin. He became a legitimate phenomenon. He eventually left and he opened his own thing called Akin's AARMY. When he was at SoulCycle, because he was a true athlete, he was teaching more than 30 classes a week because he's a robot. This guy is AI-generated. He never needed a day off. He was teaching seven days a week, six or seven classes a day.

Alison Stewart: Wow. It's interesting because SoulCycle has this reputation for having a cult-like following. Even SNL parried it. It was very funny. How much do you agree or disagree with the cultist association around SoulCycle?

Jess Rothschild: I think that cult of personality definitely forms between the riders and the instructors. Cult of personality, I think, is where it's most expressed. Cult, I mean, yes, we're all-- especially between 2011 and 2016, at its height, everyone in the class is wearing SoulCycle branded clothing. There is a ritual to it. The third episode is titled Noon on Monday, because this was a frenzy going on. Servers would crash. My friend was the assistant to a very high-level CEO, and part of his job was to book her bikes noon on Monday because this woman is busy running a company. She didn't have time. Part of his job, he's like, "Oh, that was my whole life was getting my boss into classes."

Noon on Monday is a phrase. There were expressions that this is a language that we use. I mean, it is.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: How about the cost of it? It costs a lot of money to go to one class. Was that an issue ever?

Jess Rothschild: No.

Alison Stewart: Were they doing that on purpose to keep the kink at a certain level?

Jess Rothschild: SoulCycle invented the pay-per-class model. Previously, you sign up for a gym, it's a monthly membership. What SoulCycle did was they thought, "No, we're not going to do a membership. You're going to plunk down the $34 every single time you take a class."

Alison Stewart: It's a lot of money.

Jess Rothschild: Now it's $40.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Jess Rothschild: They invented the pay-per-class model, and that revolutionized the entire boutique fitness industry. Every Barry's Bootcamp, every competitor, they're all pay-per-class.

Alison Stewart: In 2011, the original SoulCycle owner sold the company to Equinox, which was just in the news recently for having to pay out a certain amount because it was difficult to make up classes. Read Gothamist.com to find out more. What changed about SoulCycle once they sold, once the original owners departed?

Jess Rothschild: Everything. The entire culture changed. There was a real culture war between SoulCycle and Equinox, how SoulCycle was running its company under Julie and Elizabeth. It went from being like a small homegrown mom-and-pop business where the instructors were taken care of, they were given health insurance, they were paid more than any other instructors, they were being compensated for their talent and really taken care of to, "Now you're under a corporation, a behemoth."

Equinox is a subsidiary of related companies, which owns nearly every single apartment building in New York and Los Angeles. You feel that corporate trickle down. They started paying instructors less. They started slowly hiring younger and younger instructors so they could pay them less, people with less experience. Those older, more soulful, more life-experienced instructors started to get faded out because they were making so much money and they just wanted younger influencers teaching the class. That is really what changed, so the soul started to leave.

Alison Stewart: To learn more about it, you should listen to the podcast Cult of Body and Soul. It is hosted and produced by Jess Rothschild.

Jess Rothschild: By the way, all the episodes are on YouTube. You can watch the whole thing as well. If you're not a podcast listener, we got you on YouTube.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Thanks, Jess.

Jess Rothschild: Thank you.