Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. Coming up on the show, actor Wunmi Mosaku is here to talk about her role as Annie, a spiritual healer in the vampire movie Sinners. It's so good. Authors Adrian Miller and Deborah Chang join us to discuss their book about the history of chefs with Asian heritage in the White House. Poet and author Ocean Vuong has a new novel, The Emperor of Gladness. It's about an unlikely friendship between a young man and an elderly woman at the fringes of society. It just came out, and Ocean is here to discuss. That is our plan, but let's get this hour started with Dominique Ansel. [music]

Joining us now is pastry chef Dominique Ansel. Ansel trademarked the Cronut back in 2013, but now he continues his tradition of culinary mashups with a blend of French and Asian baking traditions. His new bakery is called Papa d'Amour, and it opens on May 22nd in the Village. It's a special project for him because this particular mashup is meant to honor his family, his Taiwanese wife and their kids. Joining us now is Dominique Ansel. Dominique, it's nice to meet you.

Dominique Ansel: Nice to meet you. How are you?

Alison Stewart: I'm doing fine. The name of the bakery, Papa d'Amour, it's about fatherhood and love. What does it literally translate to?

Dominique Ansel: It translates to loving dad. It's actually what my kids call me when they want something from me. They call me Papa d'Amour because they want something, so they want to make sure I give it to them.

Alison Stewart: How do they play a role in how you're thinking about developing new recipes for your new bakery, Papa d'Amour?

Dominique Ansel: My family is my life. Like most people, we build a family. We have kids. My wife is from Taiwan, so we've traveled through Taiwan and Asia altogether. I've always love the flavors, the culture, and as part of my kids heritage now, I want to make sure we would keep the roots, the French, all Asians, and that they know where their parents are coming from.

Alison Stewart: The idea of blending French pastry skills and baking traditions from around Asia, how does blending these traditions bring out the best of both worlds?

Dominique Ansel: It's a vision. It's a point of view. It's not common, for sure. French people are pretty traditional where their skills, where their techniques, where their flavors, and Asian pastries. I think a lot of it is all focused on ingredients, but also you'll find a lot like French techniques in Asian baking. It makes sense from my point of view. I think the beauty of it is like embracing both, all the cultures, and bring them together to create something new.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we have pastry chef Dominique Ansel. He is taking your questions. 212-433-9692,212-433-WNYC. Are you looking for a good recipe recommendation, or maybe you have a dessert you're trying to perfect, or maybe have a question about his new bakery, Papa d'Amour? Our phone lines, they are open to you. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or you can hit us up on socials @allofitwnyc.

By the way, how is it going with the bakery? It's right around the corner of the opening.

Dominique Ansel: Yes, it's going well. Obviously, we can start feeling the pressure. We’re like eight days away from opening. The team has been training for quite some time now. I've been working on menu for almost a year. It's finally coming together. It's good to see. I can't wait to peel the paper off the window and let the light through and let people through to show a little bit what we've been working on.

Alison Stewart: You've been working on the menu for a year?

Dominique Ansel: About a year, yes. It takes time, from thinking of the concept to, of course, physically building the shop, to testing the menu, sourcing the right equipment, hiring the staff. It takes some time. Actually, we've been working on this concept for close to two years now, altogether.

Alison Stewart: On one of your websites, there's this pull quote from you that says, "Don't let the creation kill the creativity." What do you mean by that?

Dominique Ansel: Well, that's something that I actually talk about when I created the Cronut. A lot of people were telling me to just to sell out, just to build factories, and ship it all across the world, and I refused. I didn't want my creation to kill my creativity, so I wanted to make sure I could stay relevant and creative because this is who I am. This is what I like to do. I like to create new pastries. I like to create new experiences and share it with the world, and to make sure that I stay true to who I am, to myself as a chef, as a creator.

Alison Stewart: You created the Cronut. You trademarked it in 2013, but your stores still carry different flavors of Cronuts every month. After all these years, do any particular flavors really stand out to you, and you think, oh, that was a good one?

Dominique Ansel: [chuckles] That's a good question. We have, since the beginning, changed the flavor every single month, and we have never, ever repeated the same flavor. Altogether, I think we've created over 800 flavors of Cronut. It's a lot. It's challenging. I think the one that resonates to me the most, it will always be the first one. It will always be, like, a moment in time where, like, that means something to me. It's definitely, like, engraved in my memory. It was rose and vanilla. It was created for Mother's Day, and it was something that we're supposed to do just for the weekend. We put on the menu, and by day three, we had over 150 people waiting outside before we even opened the door. Think about this. It was like 12 years ago--12, 13, I don't count anymore. It was a long time ago, before the era of social media and the way it is now.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting because so many people would say, "I did that. It's over." It's like rock bands won't play their greatest hits, but you haven't walked away from the Cronut. Why not?

Dominique Ansel: No, I mean, the Cronut is still here. We still sell out every single day, and then we've kept quality, creativity within the product. We kept the consistency. That's the most important for me. It's not about, like, how many more you can sell, but, like, how much more exciting can you make it, how much more different can you present it? Keeping the quality is also a challenge every single day, to make sure that we serve a high quality product.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Dominique Ansel. He is a pastry chef. He's the inventor of the Cronut. He's a restaurateur, and he is our guest. He's also willing to take your calls. You looking for a recipe recommendation? Maybe you have a dessert you're just trying to perfect? You can ask Dominique Ansel. The lines are open, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We have Andrew, who is calling in from Syracuse, New York. Hi, Andrew. You're on air with Dominique Ansel.

Andrew: Hi. Hello. How are you today?

Alison Stewart: Good, thank you.

Andrew: Good. I just wanted to ask Mr. Ansel. What kind of advice would he give young people that are using baking as a self-care technique. I work with a lot of young people in high school as a mental health clinician, and I try to emphasize the need for that, and some of them do speak about baking and their use of it to take care of themselves. Just in general, though, I would like to, to know what Mr. Ansel's thoughts are on the subject.

Dominique Ansel: That's a great question. Actually never been asked this question. Thank you, Andrew. I think a lot of people, when I see, like, baking at home--like beginners or even people that do it at home for the weekend, they all like bring back the same fact. The fact that baking is actually very soothing, very relaxing, something that calms them down, something that like recenters them. I believe baking has this kind of power, and I think it's great to use it in that sense.

Sometimes people are afraid of baking. They think it's like scary or they don't know what they're going to do, what are they going to get, but so long you follow the recipes and you have someone to like guide you through the steps, I think it's a great way of engaging with people, recentering people, and sometimes relaxing, too.

Alison Stewart: What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?

Dominique Ansel: I'm sorry?

Alison Stewart: What drew you to becoming a pastry chef?

Dominique Ansel: Oh, me. It was, like, I think my mom, she was a terrible cook. She was really bad.

[laughter]

She was really, really bad. Many, many times, I ended up in the kitchen, trying to serve dinner with my dad. The thing I will do, I will pull a recipe book, look through the recipe and see how to prepare food. At the time, I was very young. I was probably like 12 to 15. I was like, okay. I guess I like being in kitchen. I like cooking. While I left school at age of 15, I decided I want to be a chef. I didn't know much what I want to do. I didn't know that cooking was going to be something I want to do. I found a school. I went to culinary school while working. I did the apprenticeship, and I like it. The first year was tough. It was really tough.

Alison Stewart: What was tough?

Dominique Ansel: Everything. I was a chef in a restaurant. I was not treated well. I was not careful, I was not shown or taught anything. It was 30 years ago in France. It was rough actually, like, hated the first year. I didn't like it at all. Then, little by little, I met people who taught me, who showed me the right people to care for me, and I started appreciating what I was doing. Having people around that show you and teach you, I think, is important.

Alison Stewart: That first year of being a chef where you didn't like it, it must have taught you how to treat other people.

Dominique Ansel: Absolutely. I promised myself this is exactly what I never want to do in the kitchen. When that comes to our kitchen, it's truly, like, fairly—very carefully done. If they have any question, there's no silly question. Even if it's something very simple that I tell my chef, you have done and you have repeated like 100,000 times, do it one more time. Do it one more time for this person. It can make a difference for the life of their career.

Alison Stewart: Dominique, we have a question for you. This is coming in via text. The question is, "How will you integrate traditional Taiwanese pastry, like mochi and pineapple cake, in your creations? That is from Jen.

Dominique Ansel: It's a good question. I obviously, like, fell in love with Taiwan, with the food there. For me, it's not about replicating the traditional Taiwanese flavors or Asian flavors. It's about being inspired by it. I'm creating pastries that are somehow like French techniques, French ingredients sometimes mixed with some Asian or Taiwanese flavors or inspiration. They're all, like, unique creations. They're not like a replicate of what already exists. Yes, pineapple. I'm working on something to be inspired by the pineapple cake, and some of the flavors as well. Mochi is definitely something I'm working with as well. I'm really excited about.

I'm working on this, actually, this taro puff donut. It's inspired by the dim sum, the taro puff dim sum. It's like a very thin, delicate, beautiful lace batter that's usually served with, like, pork and a stew inside. We're going to do differently. We're doing a mochi, but with that less butter. We're doing a vanilla mochi with strawberry and guava jam. This is, like, wrapped around that lace batter and fried to order. It's going to be crispy, like chewy. It's going to be like a nice, creamy, a jam inside. A little bit of acidity, a little bit of chewiness. A very exciting one.

Alison Stewart: We have another question. This one is via text. It says, "I've been trying to perfect a cream cheese Italian meringue, buttercream. The emulsion tends to break even if there's enough cream cheese to impart flavor. Any tips to prevent that, that the emulsion tends to break?

Dominique Ansel: That's a very specific question. Obviously, I will have to see the recipe to determine what will work. I can tell you that if you add too much cream cheese to Italian meringue, it will split because you have a fat and water content that is mixed together. Most likely, put less cream cheese anytime. It will work.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Brent. Hi, Brent. Thanks for calling All Of It. You are on the air with Dominique Ansel.

Brent: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I live right in the neighborhood, 11th in University, and I've just been watching over the past 25 years, new restaurants and coffee shops and cafes coming in and revitalizing the neighborhood. I just wanted to officially welcome you to the neighborhood. It looks like it's going to be a beautiful shop and a beautiful building, and you're a wonderful operator. Welcome. We wish you all the best.

Dominique Ansel: Thank you. Thank you so much, friend. I'm really excited. I know University Street up to Union Square has changed a lot between Union Square and Washington Park. It's definitely moving a lot. There's a lot of food businesses. We come very humble. We're very excited, super happy to meet all the neighborhood. Hopefully, we have long lines in the beginning, but I wish to welcome everyone and personally greet everyone. I think that before anything, a bakery is a neighborhood business, and we have to cater to our neighbors and make sure that we're part of the community. Thank you for your warm welcome and looking forward to meeting you.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. Bakeries are having a moment right now. Long lines, people walking away. People wouldn't touch carbs four years ago. Now they're walking away with bags full. Why do you think bakeries are having this moment?

Dominique Ansel: It's true. I think probably the last 5 to 10 years, I will say, there's more and more bakeries in the city, and I am super excited about it. When people think like, oh, it's competition, like, I think we're all different different types of bakery, different type of businesses. Obviously, there's room for everyone. It's still like competition. You still have to mark yourself from the competition, but it's a healthy one, I think.

I think bakeries are more accessible than restaurants. After COVID, probably a lot of people don't want to sit down for a full meal or have changed. A lot of people have changed their lifestyle to eat dinner earlier, to wake up earlier, and work out a little bit more, or working from home. A lot of habits have changed, for sure. You can feel it. I can see it. A lot less people go to restaurants sadly. I wish it was the other way, but the bakeries is still a quick, accessible type of business where you can grab something and go home with it. I think a lot of talented chefs have come up with cool concepts, comfortable places, good food, and that makes a difference.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Vicki, who's calling in from Tudor City. Hi, Vicki. Thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air with Dominique Ansel.

Vicki: Oh, good morning. Thank you for taking my call. I just wondered if the chef could share any time that he may have laughed at himself for a spectacular baking failure. I've had a couple of those, and baking is such a science, and it actually caused me to give up baking, and I could cook almost anything else. Does he have anything like that that he could share.

Dominique Ansel: Vicki, it's a great question here, too. Of course, about my failures. Of course, we all had it, especially in the beginning of my career. My failures are smaller, so they're more like calculated. They're more like anticipated when they happen. We all have had some. I remember, like, being a young chef in Paris in my 20s, and working at Fauchon. Fauchon was one of the best at the time, best bakery in Paris. As was my first year, I was doing a recipe with another chef where I was mixing probably about 80 pounds of chocolate mousse, or building cakes. It's a lot.

Alison Stewart: It's a lot.

Dominique Ansel: You have your arm, like, deep inside the mixing bowl, like mixing that creamy chocolate ganache with the whipped cream. While I was mixing and mixing, and my chef comes, he looks at the chocolate mousse, he looks at me, and he asked me the question, you put the gelatin right? I had this, like, split second of, like, oh, my God. I had this dish because I work with someone else on it and didn't bring all ingredients. That bowl of gelatin was sitting on the counter, and I realized that it was left out.

The whole time, I was like, I think I turned all white and pale, like, I have never done a mistake like this. Trust me, I panicked. I freaked out. I did it once, only once. I remember to this day to make sure before you mix and combine everything together that you have all ingredients in front of you. I said, That's a mistake that taught me a lot for sure. I use it to train my team. Make sure you have all ingredients in front of you before you start mixing, so you know you're not missing anything.

Alison Stewart: All right. To help out Vicki, in your book, you have this new book, Life's Sweetest Moments: Simple, Stunning Recipes and Their Heartwarming Stories, what is the simplest recipe in this book that maybe will get her back into baking?

Dominique Ansel: There's a lot of simple recipes also, like, the cookie is definitely one of them. It's a simple recipe that doesn't really fail. Yes, I think also the cookie will be a good step to begin.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in, Vicki, and thank you so much for Dominique Ansel. We look forward to your new bakery, Papa d'Amour. It's opening on May 22nd. Thanks for your time.

Dominique Ansel: Thank you so much. It's exciting to be on the show.