Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Happy Friday. Thanks for joining us. I want to preview some of the conversations we're going to be having on the show next week. We will speak with artist Lorna Simpson. She first came to prominence as a photographer. Now the Metropolitan Museum of Art is exhibiting her paintings. She'll join us in studio on Tuesday to discuss. We'll recap Eurovision 2025, and we will preview the exhibit at the New York Botanical Garden that brings to life some of the flowers painted by Vincent van Gogh. That is in the future, but now let's get this hour started with the Irish Repertory Company.

[music]

Alison Stewart: A new one-man show at the Irish Rep is called The Black Wolfe Tone. Wolfe Tone was an 18th-century Irish rebel. In this play, the main character is named Kevin. He's a modern-day mixed-race guy, who likes rap music and smokes. He's also in a psychiatric hospital. He wonders, should he be there talking about his feelings to strange doctors getting dosed with clozapine. Written and performed by Kwaku Fortune. He plays Kevin, his doctors, his parents, and various people who have made up the world he lives in or is escaping from.

The New York Times describes the show, "The son of a West African mother and an Irish father, Kevin speaks Irish, sings Irish rebel songs when he’s feeling boisterous, channels Irish heroes in the midst of a manic episode: 'I’m Fionn MacCumhaill, I’m Michael Collins, I’m Theobald Wolfe Tone,' he tells himself." This is a play about mental illness and profoundly about identity. The Black Wolfe Tone is playing at the Irish Rep on West 22nd Street in Chelsea until June 1st. Kwaku Fortune joins us. It is nice to meet you.

Kwaku Fortune: Nice to meet you, too. Thanks so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Where is Kevin when we meet him?

Kwaku Fortune: He's right outside a mental hospital in Wicklow, and he's about to go in and talk to his doctors, and he thinks he's getting out. The whole question, the whole play is, is he well enough, and where did it come from? What are the origins? Yes, he's just about to go in and plead his case, as it will, and try to convince them that he's well, even though I think deep down he knows he isn't.

Alison Stewart: I was going to say, does Kevin think he should be in the hospital?

Kwaku Fortune: No, he doesn't. He's like, "I'm ready, I've done my time, I'm fine, let me out." Throughout the thing, it oscillates back and forward with whether he is well. I think, hopefully, at times the audience are going, "Ah, look, it's not that bad, let him out," but yes, I don't know. [laughs] I probably gave away the whole play there.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Well, the show isn't linear. It's told back and forth throughout time. At one point, Kevin talks about breaking out of the hospital. Why does he think that's a good idea when he breaks out?

Kwaku Fortune: I think he just got so fed up. I mean, you're in this place where there's not a lot to do. In terms of therapy or healing, you're just sitting around watching TV, smoking cigarettes. There's a little gym. He's not even allowed to be a part of that because of his behavior and stuff. He just has had enough of seeing these ghosts roam the halls at night, heavily medicated. They're on sleeping tablets, but they can't even sleep. They're in a pretty dark place. He's just like, "I need to get out of here," and he breaks out. That, again, is told backwards. That has happened before we meet him, where we meet him. I don't know, it's like a fever dream at times.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. In writing it, did you ever choose to use the linear way this happened, this happened, this happened, or did it all just come like a collage?

Kwaku Fortune: Yes, it's funny in terms of-- I don't know if I was ever fully in control of it. We had to put shape on it because it went in mad places. To answer your point, it was never linear. It was always like, "He's here, he's here." It was actually quicker and more frantic, the original version.

We had to make it a bit more accessible and not just heavy-handed and kind of manic. You had to believe at points that he was well or better or sane. You had to see his seduction as well, how he can manipulate his doctors into thinking as well. If you have just everything being raw, it just wouldn't work. Yes, raw is a great word to use.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Kwaku Fortune: It was never really linear, to answer that question.

Alison Stewart: He's smart, he's charming, but sometimes he doesn't realize that his behavior might be manic. I was curious, what kind of research did you do into people who have this sort of mental illness?

Kwaku Fortune: Well, I suffered from manic depression myself, so there's that. I read Sarah Kane's play, 48 Psychosis. I think that's the name of it. There's a book called Electroboy that I read that deals with diaries of specifically someone with bipolar disorder, and two other books. One I got as a gift years ago. I can't remember the name. Actually, sorry, apologies. I did a lot of research into kind of-- and more the medical side of it as well, because I think most of it I could pull from my own experience. Did that answer the question?

Alison Stewart: Yes, it did. How autobiographical is this?

Kwaku Fortune: It's pretty bang on. Again, autobiography sometimes can be very-- I tend to steer away from that, especially as an actor. When you see that on stage, sometimes it can be, I don't know, indulgent or self-indulgent or whatever. I wanted to make it a theatrical piece. It is definitely dramatized. My dad, for instance, is the most lovable kind man. His role is definitely heightened. We did have a lot of clashes when I was a young man, but it's definitely heightened. He plays the stereotypical Irish father rather than-- I never speak in my dad's voice. It's a different voice that is put on because I find it hard to even get in there.

It's my story, but it's also Kevin's story, and it's also dramatized to make it accessible on stage and make it hopefully fun and like an event that you're entertained because, I don't know, sometimes I feel with some of these pieces that are all about a certain issue where the issue becomes the story. For me, I feel like I'm getting hit in the head with a hammer. I'm like, "I can't engage anymore. I haven't come to the theater to be educated or I've come to feel something and to leave with questions and explore my own humanity and what I'm going through and what the world is going through and share that with people breathing the same air."

I don't know. I loathe to say it's autobiographical, but it is.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: We're joined by actor and playwright Kwaku Fortune. His show, The Black Wolfe Tone, is a piece about identity. It's playing at the Irish Rep until June 1st. His mom's West African, his dad is Irish. There may be some bits of generational trauma thrown in there. What are some of the issues that Kevin has had to deal with?

Kwaku Fortune: Definitely the mixed race element, I think, is a big one, because me and my brothers, and I can actually only speak for myself, actually, because, I don't know, it's funny how it changes even three years. People can have a different experience than what you've experienced. For me, anyway, I was in Ireland. I never felt fully Irish. I was always told I wasn't Irish, or you're too Black, or you're not Black enough. There was this kind of thing. My identity was foisted upon me.

Then going to Ghana for the first time when I was 12, I was like, "Oh, my God, this is it. I'm going back to the motherland. This is amazing. Can't wait to get off the plane, meet everyone." Me and my brother, I was 12, he was 10. We get to the villa and the gardener starts going, "Hey, obroni koko, obroni koko." I'm like, "No, no, my name's Kwaku." He goes, "Well, Kwaku, you're obroni." I went into my granny and I was like, "Granny, what does obroni mean?" She just starts laughing. She's like, "Ah, it means white boy. You are white. You are white." That Christmas, I'd been racially abused at McDonald's by a blonde lady and called all sorts things.

Alison Stewart: Oh, no.

Kwaku Fortune: Then I go to Ghana and it's, "You're white." I was just like, "What is going on?" I was like, "We can't fit in anywhere." I don't know, I've said this story too many times.

Alison Stewart: No, please.

Kwaku Fortune: I'm repeating myself. I just said to my brother, I was like, "Look, we are the race of Kwaku. You're joining my race. That's it. We're going to be our own race." He goes, "No, I want my own race. I want to be Phelan." "No, we have to keep just one. It'll be too much." That's how it came about.

Alison Stewart: Kevin is dealing with all of this.

Kwaku Fortune: Yes, 100%. He'd taken a lot of drugs to get away from that as well.

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Kwaku Fortune: I suppose the play asks the question of, where does it come from? Is it simply genetics? I mean, that's the medical model. I don't know if it can be just that. Society shapes us as well. We don't like to admit that we have a society, especially here in New York, that lets so many people mental health just fall through the cracks. I think it explores the origins and why. He always asks, "Why me?" Like, "What did I do?" Me as well. I explored the drugs at a very young age. A lot of my friends did, too, and they're fine. It's just, "Why did it affect me that way?" I don't know if that question gets answered, but it's asked and explored vigorously.

Alison Stewart: The director for this play is Nicola Murphy--

Kwaku Fortune: Nicola Murphy Dubey.

Alison Stewart: Thank you, thank you. She's also the director of the play Irishtown that was playing upstairs. What was something that she did in your direction, which I know was only two weeks or so?

Kwaku Fortune: Yes, she found that out. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: What was something she did with the direction or she explored in the writing that you really hadn't noticed before, or it started to look a little different to you?

Kwaku Fortune: To be honest, there's actually just so many things, and especially because this was a like a three-year process that we'd been working on this. She was with me through its inception. I don't know, the one main thing is I'm an actor mainly by trade. I've only recently got into playwriting. I find it hard to even call myself a playwright. I never found it hard to call myself an actor, actually, but I'm finding it hard to wear that jacket or whatever.

She would just be like going through the plane and be like, "Okay, this beat relates to this and this means that. That's so well structured. This is a callback to that." I was like--

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Kwaku Fortune: I didn't do it on purpose, but great. It just obviously was innately in there. I think as well, she just had such a light touch. The most important thing I think we did in our mad two weeks was to find some kind of separation because, obviously, it's my story, it's heightened. The things you think are real may not be real, and the things you think are not real are probably real. It's that kind of thing. She was like, "You're doing this for two months, so you need some separation. You need to substitute Kevin's story not with yours, and to protect yourself, just even from all the emotional stuff he goes through." I think that was so important.

As an actor, you always know these things, but coming from someone who's written my own piece, I was kind of-- It was good to be reminded of that substitution, I think, and protection.

Alison Stewart: It's very funny, but there's some really raw parts of the show. How do you prepare yourself for those moments?

Kwaku Fortune: I just do a vigorous warm-up. My partner is probably listening now and is like, "God, were you going in this early?" It's like, I have to go to the sauna. I have to stretch. I keep pulling things. I'm like an old man. I have scoliosis. I've had surgery on my left knee, my right ankle from football. Loads of injuries from motorbikes and stuff as well.

It's just have to do a lot to get there physically. Actually, it's usually when I take care of the physical that everything comes out. Because if you're open in the body, actually, you don't need to be focused in the mind. I don't have to think, "Oh, I want to cry now." It's like it's already there. You think about the thought, the situation, and the body just expresses. Getting the body right is the main thing.

Alison Stewart: We're joined by actor, I'll say it, and playwright Kwaku Fortune. His new show, The Black Wolfe Tone, is a piece about identity. It's paying at the Irish Rep until June 1st. The night I went, it was so interesting because half the audience was Black and the other half were people who look Irish. Don't know if they are, but I'm guessing so. I'm curious what the response has been.

Kwaku Fortune: It's been really good, actually. I'm probably the wrong person to ask. Everyone's like, "Oh, are you having a good time? Are you excited?" I'm just like, "I think now I am starting to appreciate what a great opportunity being in New York. It's amazing." The actual response from people. Because sometimes when I'm up there-- Oh, God, there's been times in the theater where people have had really intense responses and they're right up the front and it's a small space, so I can feel that.

I'm like, "Oh, what did I do wrong? Did I mess up a line?" Nicola's like, "No, look, relax. It means they connected with the piece. Just let that go. Just keep going. You're doing it for everyone else." Oh, sorry, I hit the mic. "You're doing it for everyone else." I think for the most part, it's been really, really good responses. You talk about Black audiences. Alana Raquel Bowers is our associate producer. She's incredible. Just a producer if I got the title wrong. She's amazing.

Anyway, she's been getting a lot more Black people in, which I actually think is most important because I would like to see as many Black people see it. Not that everyone should see it, but you know what I mean? Just because I think as well to see the lived experience of a half-Black person in Ireland because some of them are like, "Oh, my God, I didn't even know there were Black people in Ireland," even though Frederick Douglass was there years ago, centuries ago. I'm rambling, but I hope I answered your question. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: What have you noticed about New York audiences? It's like you sort of break the fourth wall, kind of, but I think New York audiences think, "Oh, you're breaking the fourth wall."

Kwaku Fortune: It's brilliant.

Alison Stewart: I'm here.

Kwaku Fortune: It's so good. It's so good. I ask a lot of questions and sometimes I actually respond. To be honest, they're the nights where it's more alive. I love that actually. Because that kind of etiquette, that kind of, "We are in a space together. Yes, I've asked you, so answer," and it's magic. I actually love that.

Alison Stewart: This production was with Fishamble. Is that right?

Kwaku Fortune: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Would you explain to people what Fishamble is?

Kwaku Fortune: Yes. Fishamble is the new play company in Dublin. They're an incredible company that support new work and have since the get-go. Jim Culleton is the head and Gavin Kostick is his partner in crime. Gavin's a dramaturge and Jim's an artistic director. The whole crew, they're an amazing company. I studied in the Lir Academy. They used to teach a lot out of there. I was just always enamored by Gavin and his mind and everything, and could never dream of-- I'd love to work with them, but I never could dream of I would write something that they would support. They're amazing.

Alison Stewart: How do they work with the Irish Rep?

Kwaku Fortune: I'm probably the wrong person to ask about that. This came about with Nicola and Jim and Ciarán and Charlotte, I think, and they were trying to get more Black voices in Irish theater, so they came up with the Transatlantic Commission. Jim called me when I was moving house. I've said this. It was the wrong time to call. I was like, "No, I don't have a play. I don't want to write a play." He's like, "Come on, please." I said, "Okay."

It was me, CN Smith, Felicia Olusanya, and Jade Jordan were the playwrights and actors. We did four short pieces, and we had a residency over here and stuff. They probably have a longer relationship and history, but for me, that was when I came on board, is the joint effort between Fishamble and the Irish Rep for this.

Alison Stewart: When you think about this show, why do you think theater is a good vehicle to explore issues around mental health?

Kwaku Fortune: That's a good question. How do you know a good vehicle? No, I think it is a good vehicle. I think it's, again, like the we're in the room together, we're breathing together. Film is incredible. It can take you to many places. You're alone in the dark. There's no one there, no one watching you. On stage or in a theater, there's someone living in front of you, sweating, hopefully. I've tried not to sweat, but I've been sweating a lot. Sweating in front of you, giving their all. That kind of shared experience or community, I think can't be replicated.

Sometimes to feel that with a whole audience, even if you don't have mental health or any problems, I don't know, that shared consciousness is very palpable and special and hopefully will raise awareness and lead people to-- Heal is the wrong word, but, I don't know, see the world in a different light and come together and just-- Oh, God, I'm talking in really airy terms, but breathe together. There's nothing like it, and I think for any issue.

Again, I don't like issue plays, but I've seen physically what people are going through when I'm doing this. At the start, it was really off-putting and I was like, "Oh, God, what am I doing wrong?" kind of thing. Actually, it's not about me. It's about our shared experience and our shared humanity we come to the theater to feel. Yes, that's what you should be doing.

Alison Stewart: I walked by the theater, I saw The Black Wolfe Tone. I said, "Okay, I'll go see the show. I'll see what it's about. This is really interesting." Tell me, what is The Black Wolfe Tone? What does the title mean?

Kwaku Fortune: It's funny. Theobald Wolfe Tone was an Irish rebel. I suppose he was Protestant and he was very-- What's the word? He was very empathetic to the Catholic cause. Him and Robert Emmet-- Well, he formed the United Irishmen and they rebelled. The first rising in, God, I hope get this date right, 1749, I think is the first rising, trying to get rid of British rule. He was then killed in France and stuff.

It doesn't sound like it, but I did a whole project on him in school. I was just enamored. I don't know, I was just drawn. Especially the fact that he was Protestant kind of really rung a bell with me. It's weird because then the ruling class was the Brits. The Catholics were the outsiders. The fact that he was Protestant and he tried to liberate Ireland, it was a thin line, but I felt that he was an outsider and not Irish, even though he was completely Irish. He was born in Dublin. He was just Protestant.

I don't know, they were in power at the time. I just latched onto that. I was like, "I feel like a kinship with that of being an outsider but wanting to be Irish, wanting a better Ireland, wanting to fight for a better Ireland." It's pretty thin, but it worked and it sounded nice. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: The Black Wolfe Tone is playing at the Irish Rep until June 1st. My guest has been Kwaku Fortune. Thank you so much for coming to the studio.

Kwaku Fortune: Thank you, Alison. So good for you to have me. Thank you.