Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Summer is here, which means it's time for our second Summer Reading Challenge. We're asking you to read at least one book in all five of the following categories. They are: a classic you've been meaning to get to, a book about or set in New York City, a memoir or biography, a recent debut novel, and a book published in 2025. Head to wnyc.org/summerreading to sign up and to download the Summer Reading Challenge PDF. Again, that's wnyc.org/summerreading.

You can share your selections with us and keep us up to date on your summer reading progress by tagging us on posts on Instagram. We will repost you. Tag us @allofitwnyc and use the hashtag #aysummerreadingchallenge. Susan Choi will be with us shortly to share her choices, as well as discussing her new book, Flashlight. Happy reading. Now, let's get this hour started with some cheap date suggestions. In fact, one of them involves a bookstore.

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Alison Stewart: Depending on your point of view or personal experience, dating can be fun, or it might be a dumpster fire, or it might be something in between. No matter what you think about the dating scene, especially in New York, it can be very spendy. Dinner plus drinks plus a movie can easily land you in the territory of three figures. If you're going out on a couple of dates a week, that adds up, but it doesn't have to be that way. Joining me now is writer and editor Danielle Kam. She recently authored an article for The Cut titled 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren’t Cringe. She joins us now to discuss. Hi, Danielle.

Danielle Kam: Hi, Alison. How are you?

Alison Stewart: I'm doing great. Listeners, we want to hear your suggestions. Let's crowdsource this. What's a low-cost date that you've been on that was really great? Call or text us at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. What made it work? How did the day go? Call us and text us with your cheap dates. Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. As we wait for calls to come in, Danielle, I want to start with the title of your article, 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren’t Cringe. Why is it not cringe?

Danielle Kam: I think sometimes people have ideas about first dates or whatnot with spending money. Some people don't like when someone doesn't spend the money on the date. I just wanted to find some really fun things that were free by design, so it didn't seem like, "Oh, I'm cheap and I don't want to take you out." That was kind of the idea behind it.

Alison Stewart: All right. Just want to make that clear. You quote a therapist in this article who says, "Cheap just means low cost, not low effort or low vibe." First of all, what made you want to interview a therapist for this piece?

Danielle Kam: I write a lot of pieces about dating, and I always rely on therapists for sources. Especially the ones that I use are-- their practices are very focused around dating and relationships and stuff, and I just feel like they have just a different perspective than a dating coach would have. They take a more emotional avenue, and I think it's interesting.

Alison Stewart: Low cost, not low effort or low vibe. Why is this important?

Danielle Kam: Again, you don't want the person you're going out with to think that you don't care, that you didn't have intention. At the end of the day, it's like drinks and dinner, fun, expensive, as we said, but putting yourself out there and just trying something out of your comfort zone, something you both haven't tried in the city, that's so much better. It will show the person that you actually took the time to care enough to plan something fun and different. Honestly, it'll probably be a better date than they've ever been on.

Alison Stewart: How do you encourage someone to break out of the dinner and a movie rut? That's the first thing. "Oh, dinner and a movie? Do you want to go to a dinner and a movie?" How do you break out of that rut?

Danielle Kam: It's so hard. It's also because New York has amazing restaurants, so of course, you're going to think dinner and that's the perfect thing to do. That's also the thing about New York. There is so much more to do than dinner and a movie, so why waste it? I feel like just a part of being a New Yorker and living in New York is being out of your comfort zone in so many situations. I think my advice is just like, you have so much to experience, and the city has so much to offer. Even if it makes you uncomfortable, take advantage of it.

Alison Stewart: Here's a couple of texts we're getting. "Happy hours with good food." Another text says, "Great cheap date, if you're in New York, is to do a date night at the Met Museum on Friday nights. The museum is open till 9:00 PM. Obviously, you donate what you like for admission and you could spend the entire evening just perusing amazing art or grab a drink or bite and eat at the new lounge. Great idea."

Listeners, call in. We want to hear your date suggestions. What's a good low-cost date that you've been on, and what was really great about it? Give us a call. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Tell us what made it work and also you can tell us how the date went. The number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. I'm speaking with Danielle Kam. She wrote an article for The Cut, 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren’t Cringe. All right, first of all, do you try these out yourself?

Danielle Kam: Of course. Not all of them. [laughs] I'm actually engaged, so my fiancé and I try to do a lot of inexpensive stuff. We've tried out a bunch. Not all of them. I'm making my way through it. We love just trying random things. There's all these night markets that we love. There's a few locations like in the Bronx and Queens. They have all these night markets in the city that are super fun and cool. We try to do it as much as we can, but when it's this hot out, it's a little bit hard to get outside to do it.

Alison Stewart: Let's get to your list. Your first idea is to research the city's Easter eggs and explore. What do you mean by an Easter egg?

Danielle Kam: Basically, the city, and I think some people know this, some people don't. There's all these little things that are just kind of cool around the city. For example, Astor Place, that cube, it spins. A lot of people know that, but that's one of the Easter eggs of New York City. Another one is the IFC Center. They actually have like a peephole right outside their building so you can watch a movie for free. You can't hear the audio, but you can watch a movie for free through the peephole, which is pretty cool. Actually, Herald Square has a hidden musical instrument at their uptown and downtown. I think it's like the NR Subway platforms. Do you know that one?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Danielle Kam: I just found out about this one. I think that's super cool. The stuff like Grand Central has that whispering gallery there. I highly recommend just going on Reddit and doing a search because people have amazing ideas on just stuff that you would never ever know about or come up upon just by chance.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Charles who's calling from the Upper West Side. Hi, Charles, thanks for taking the time to call All Of It.

Charles: Thank you so much. By the way, thanks for your guest. I just wanted to say that I love bicycle riding. When I did the marathon, there's so many great neighborhoods throughout the five boroughs and places that you might want to come back and visit and beautiful structures. I think that's a nice way to just spend, maybe buy a bottle of wine on the way someplace or just find a place that you don't even know about that looks good. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you so much for that.

Alison Stewart: Thanks, Charles. We appreciate it. I think Rose is a bike rider as well. Hey, Rose, thanks for calling in.

Rose: Hi, thank you for taking my call. Yes, it's another bike day. It's super simple. Done it before. Basically, I have ridden on the West Side Highway from Battery Park all the way to the Cloisters up in Inwood. It's a full day. It is really fun. Then eventually, wherever you choose to get off, just going for lunch or dinner and refueling from the long day of activity.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling in. Andrea's calling from Brooklyn. Hey, Andrea, you're on All Of It.

Andrea: Yes, hi. I have one that is an active one, but it's great for a really hot day like today. There are various different free kayaking options and I volunteer at one called Brooklyn Bridge Park Boathouse in Brooklyn Bridge Park. It's totally free. You get about 20 minutes on the water with the beautiful Manhattan skyline. You can take pictures, talk about seeing the Statue of Liberty, all kinds of things like that. It's really just a great, fun date option.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for the recommendation. Listeners, call in with your favorite cheap date ideas. Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can also tell us how was the date. I'm speaking with Danielle Kam. She recently wrote an article for The Cut titled 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren't Cringe. There's one on your list here that says free karaoke. Where do I get free karaoke?

Danielle Kam: There's a great place in the East Village called Planet Rose. Have you heard of it?

Alison Stewart: I haven't.

Danielle Kam: Oh, it's the best. It's super cool. It's like pink with zebra. It's just like a great fun bar. They do free. Then there's a place in Brooklyn called Banks Tavern that does karaoke on Monday nights. Those are two places that I highly recommend.

Alison Stewart: You have on here building a Lego set together. Where do I go to do that?

Danielle Kam: Your apartment or you could bring it to the park. I mean, depending. I'm not saying everyone should go to someone's apartment on a first date, but bring it to a park or, honestly, a coffee shop if it's little enough.

Alison Stewart: I was thinking about this. Could you give us a couple examples what are good first date ideas that would be good? Because, like you said, bringing a Lego to someone's house, first date, I'm not so sure. What are some clearly good first date options?

Danielle Kam: Absolutely. I have always been a fan of grab something, whether that's coffee or pastries or drinks even, and just taking a walk, because I feel like it's just so much less low pressure. You really get to see how the person interacts with the environment around them, what they like, what they don't like. I think, this is going to sound silly, but it's the easiest getaway. You can just be like, "Okay, I got to go," and you can just head out. It's great. You don't have to spend more time with someone that you don't want to.

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Alison Stewart: I've got a bunch of really good texts here. I'm going to get through them. "Going to the NYPL at Bryant Park and reading together at the Rose Room, and if you really want to feel academic, writing a short story or poem and then reading it to each other. It's one of my favorite things to do with my partner as a born and raised New Yorker." That's a great suggestion.

Danielle Kam: I love that. That's super sweet. I love that.

Alison Stewart: This one says, "Roosevelt Island. Take the tram and visit Four Freedoms Park. Classical Theatre of Harlem, New York Classical Theatre, and Smith Street Stage all do incredible free theater that doesn't involve standing in line forever for a ticket like the public does." This one says, "My first date with my now girlfriend was to Wonderville in Brooklyn. Technically a bar, but also a DIY arcade with live shows that are often free. Second date was the Rockaway Boardwalk in the summer. I think what made our first date successful was asking her to join me on outings that I was already interested in rather than trying to guess what would impress her." That's a really interesting point, I think, Danielle.

Danielle Kam: Absolutely. That person has just solved dating right there.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Danielle Kam: That's what we mean, and that's what we're talking about, too, with the intention.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Dan, who's calling in from Sleepy Hollow. Hi, Dan, thanks for calling All Of It.

Dan: Oh, hey, great. You can picnic in Central Park or Prospect Park. Not necessarily you want to do this on the first date, but on a subsequent date and things are going well, you can serenade them in the underpasses that go under the roadways. There are really good acoustics in there.

Alison Stewart: Dan, thanks for the tip. Let's talk to Paul, calling in from New Jersey. Hey, Paul, thanks for calling All Of It. What do you got?

Paul: Oh, thank you. Two organizations, Play By Play and Theater Extras, that you pay $100 a year for membership and then you have a list of a couple dozen shows every day that are either off-Broadway or off-off-Broadway. Sometimes even Broadway shows come up. You don't know where you're sitting, but it's just $5 per ticket under those clubs. There also is a club Free Time that has a lot of concerts, free movies, and some off-Broadway and even Broadway shows. I find that that is very good for budgets and not feeling you spent a lot of money on a first date.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for the tip. Let's talk to Cliff, who's calling in from Greenwich, Connecticut. Hi, Cliff, thanks for calling All Of It.

Cliff: Yes, it's kind of fun. Here's a thought. Get a nice picnic basket, the old-fashioned kind, bottle of wine, go to Central Park, have your dinner, walk over, get on the subway, take it down to Bowling Green, take the Staten Island ferry, it's free, see the Statue of Liberty, the most beautiful thing at sunset in New York, turn around and come back and you've got yourself a great day.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for the tip. We appreciate it. Hey, we've heard a lot of people, Danielle, talk about what to bring on their picnics. Are there certain things you should or shouldn't bring on a date?

Danielle Kam: I'm a big believer in do what you want, eat what you want. You want to show this person who you are. I always joke that I would never eat sushi because it's just hard for me to do. [laughs] Like, it's messy. I feel like there's really no do and don't. It's just whatever you like, whatever you bonded over, bring that. I think that, obviously, fruit, stuff like that. but you can jazz it up. Bring whatever you want.

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking with Danielle Kam. She recently wrote a piece for The Cut titled 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren't Cringe. She's joining us to discuss. We want to crowdsource this. We want to know your favorite cheap date ideas. Call or text us at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Danielle Kam. She recently wrote a piece for The Cut titled 40 Cheap Date-Night Ideas That Aren't Cringe. She joins us now to discuss. We got the idea that we wanted to crowdsource this with you. We want to know your favorite cheap date ideas. Give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Let's take Robert from Queens. Robert, you're on the air.

Robert: Hello. How are you? Glad to be a contributor and having fun listening to your program.

Alison Stewart: Love it.

Robert: My recommendation, I have two. I'm in Queens. Queens College Kupferberg Performing Arts Center is running a summer program at the Gantries in Long Island City, but they also have events at Astoria Park. I believe there are two other sites, one in the Bronx and one in Brooklyn. My favorite is Jamaica Arts Learning Center. It's in downtown Jamaica. They run a program all year long and it's indoors and air-conditioned. I've seen some excellent acts: jazz, predominantly Latin, R&B, international performers. It's $10 and $15. They have a caterer, so they serve light meals and wine and beer and so on and so forth. Those are my recommendations in Queens.

Alison Stewart: Thanks a lot. We appreciate it. I love this text. This is funny, Danielle. It says, "This says a lot about me specifically, but cemeteries are great places for having conversations and doing a scavenger hunt. Greenwood even has tours and events and a beautiful view of the city. I went there. It was a pretty great place, I have to say." What are your recommendations for people who maybe have known each other a little longer? They would understand, I'm taking you to a cemetery. [laughs]

Danielle Kam: Oh, absolutely. Honestly, it's so funny that that person said that, too, because I almost included it on my list in the article, but I was like, "Maybe it's a little too macabre for some people," so I took it off, but I love that. Just going from personal experience, like with my fiancé and I, we love-- There's this place called Sweet Pickle Books and that is in the East Village. You can bring a used book and they give you a pickle jar in return and [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: With pickles in it?

Danielle Kam: An actual jar of pickles. You can just go pick up a book, pick up some pickles, take it to Tompkins Square Park. That's a little kooky, but like fun if you know the person.

Alison Stewart: I'm wondering if there were any ideas that were a little bit too chaotic or a little bit too much that didn't make it to the list.

Danielle Kam: Oh, God, that's a great question.

Alison Stewart: Or ones that were on the edge that you said, "Okay, we'll put this on."

Danielle Kam: Okay, interesting. Let me think about it for a second.

Alison Stewart: You think about that. I'll take another call.

Danielle Kam: Great, okay.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Ryan calling from Farmingdale, New Jersey. Hey, Ryan, thanks for calling All Of It.

Ryan: How's it going?

Alison Stewart: Going okay. How about you?

Ryan: Doing great. My now wife I met at work. I was a tree climber and I was about 100 feet up in a tulip tree and I saw her on the other side of the house in the backyard and I was like, "You know what? I'm going to talk to that lady" I did. Then we went on our first date. What I would want to tell people is that even though it worked for me, the medical bills and everything were still pretty brutal. I would say don't try to do anything stupid to impress a nice lady by doing a backflip off of a high dock into shallow water after you've had a couple drinks.

Alison Stewart: I think that's good advice. Thank you for calling. Let's talk to Josh, who's calling from the Bronx. Hey, Josh, thanks for calling All Of It.

Josh: Hi, thanks for taking the call.

Alison Stewart: What do you suggest?

Josh: There's lots of late-night shows that film in New York City in Times Square. You can sign up to any of the shows. The tickets are free. The date is not so certain, but once you have the tickets, if you happen to find a date, it's a lot of time standing in line to getting to know someone, and then you got a show, and dinner in Times Square, if you choose.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much. Let's talk to Sally, who's calling us from the Upper West Side. Hey, Sally, what's your cheap date idea?

Sally: Well, it's in addition to the Staten Island Ferry suggester. Find out when the moon is going to be full. You can do that online. Then time a Staten Island Ferry ride. You'll be leaving at twilight or daylight, depending on the month. You get an incredible view of the city. When you see the moon rise from the Staten Island Ferry, it's just phenomenal, and it works if you don't know the person or if you've known the person for a while. You can get off the ferry and have a bite over there or just turn around and come back, but you really see the city skyline differently when you go before the moon rises and then when you come back. I think it's worth it.

Alison Stewart: That was so poetic. Thank you for calling in. Okay, Danielle, have you thought of something that was on your list that you were worried it was a little bit too much, but you decided to go for it?

Danielle Kam: I wouldn't say too much, but I don't know if it's for everyone. I love looking at houses and open houses. My fiancé does as well. Sometimes we go and pretend we're in the market for a brownstone, and they have--

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Danielle Kam: Sometimes they have free food and drinks. It's kind of fun, a little like-

Alison Stewart: Oh, that's funny.

Danielle Kam: -innocent role play. [laughs] No, it's super fun. That was one that I was like, "I don't know if this is for everyone, but it's definitely for me."

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Raya in Bed-Stuy. Hey, Raya, thank you for calling All Of It.

Raya: Hello. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing great. What do you suggest?

Raya: I would suggest for up in Ridgewood, closer to Ocean Hill. Nowadays, it's really good. That's where I met my partner. They have a really good trans list. If you're trans, you say a certain thing, or you can just be like, "Hey, I'm trans. Could I have a pass for today?" and they'll give you a free entry. They have a lovely outdoor and nightlife as well. During the day, it's open. It's super cute and safe, and it makes you feel very comfortable.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. Let's talk to John from Inglewood. Hey, John.

John: Hi, how are you? Thanks for taking the call. I would recommend taking a rowboat out at Central Park. Actually, it's a pretty cheap fare. Take an hour and bring a picnic with you out there and row around on the lake and you got the beautiful surroundings of Central Park. It's just a real nice atmosphere. Then, following that, you still got the whole park to explore. Perhaps Shakespeare in the park for the evening. The other is a trip over to Governors Island. Again, real, good, low-key, inexpensive ways to spend an afternoon. Actually, I don't date, but my wife and I enjoy both of those often.

Alison Stewart: Well, you go on dates with your wife. It's good. Thanks for calling in. This says, "Lincoln Center summer in the city includes dancing, dance, spoken word in theater." There was another thing here that said BRIC in-- Oh. "Go to a Celebrate Brooklyn! in Prospect Park. I rarely know the musicians, who they are, but I'm always blown away. Such a magical experience on a summer evening." Danielle, you write about summer dating ideas as well. What makes summer especially fertile season for dating?

Danielle Kam: I feel like it's just when everyone's inhibitions are a little bit lower. Everyone's just excited. I feel like they've been inside and just ready to get out. I also feel like there's something really cool about New York in the summer. I just feel like there's always so much going on, like you just stumble into things. Just this summer, because it's warm and everyone's outside, it lends itself to that. I just feel like people are out and about and wanting to do things and wanting to meet people.

Alison Stewart: What's an example of a perfect summer date?

Danielle Kam: Ooh, there's many. I like an ice cream crawl. That's me. I love an ice cream roll. Highly recommend bringing a lactate pill. I just love any kind of food crawl, honestly. I think that's super fun because it's a great way to just try all the great places in the city that you might not usually be able to get to. It can be cheap. You're just kind of buying a slice of pizza or buying a little kid's ice cream and sharing it, and you just get to walk around and enjoy and it's super fun. That's my perfect summer date personally.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Patty who's calling in from the Jersey Shore. Hi, Patty, thanks for calling All Of It.

Patty: Hi, thanks for taking my call. My perfect date would be, and I'm married, but my perfect date would be driving to Asbury Park Dog Beach. After 6:30 at night, every day in the summer, dogs are allowed on the beach. You could go walk around and look at all the crazy fun dogs swimming and playing with balls. Get to see if the person you're with likes dogs because why would you want to be with someone who doesn't like dogs? Then afterwards, you can walk on the boardwalk, get an ice cream, get something to drink, get a light dinner. You have a lot of choices. It's just sort of a fun outing with built-in entertainment.

Alison Stewart: Love it. Patty, thanks for calling in. Steve from Manhattan. Steve, what are you doing on a less-than-expensive date?

Steve: Well, one is if you remember a moment, you just go there and see whatever movie is playing without knowing what it is. It's always good and everyone likes it. The second thing is, Shirley Chisholm State Park, which, I think, has only been open three years. They give you a free bicycle and there's amazing natural terrain and you see wonderful parts of Jamaica Bay. They teach you how to fish. There's all sorts of things. I don't know why more people don't know about it.

Alison Stewart: It's great. Shirley Chisholm Park is great indeed. Thank you so much for calling in. All right, Danielle, I'm going to ask you a little bit. You helped launch Tinder's content site way back in the day.

Danielle Kam: I did.

Alison Stewart: What do you think the state of dating in New York is at this moment?

Danielle Kam: Oh, goodness. Not great, unfortunately. Not great. I am on the other side of the dating game, which is a relief. It was hard when I was going through it, too. There's just this excess of choice I feel. Everyone's kind of always looking for the next thing. They want the options. It's weird because I feel like people find dating apps a little inauthentic, which I completely understand. At the same time, our social skills, when we're at a bar, this and that, it's not the same. It's not the same. I think people are afraid to approach people. I think they don't know what to say. I think it just feels really awkward because we all know that this dumpster fire--

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Danielle Kam: Truly, it is. We all know how much it sucks, yet we continue to put ourselves through it. Honestly, I feel for everyone dating right now it's hard.

Alison Stewart: What is the one piece of a dating advice that you still give?

Danielle Kam: If you don't want to be on a date anymore, leave. That is something I wish I did more often. When I was on a date and I was uncomfortable for whatever reason, didn't jive with the person, whatever, I wish I had said, "You know what? Have a good night. I'm going to head home." Because that's your precious time. That's your time, that's your energy. You don't need to waste it with someone who's not making you feel comfortable. It's not rude. It's. It's self-care.

Alison Stewart: Daniel Kam wrote a piece called 40 Cheap Date-Nights Ideas That Aren't Cringe. Thanks to everybody who called in. For the record, all of this will be in a transcript that'll be up on our website later on at wnyc.org. Just search All Of It. Hey, Danielle, thanks for your advice.

Danielle Kam: Thank you so much.