Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We have to discuss a very important matter before we wrap up today's show, and that is Christmas decorations. Is it too soon to start evoking the holiday spirit, or is it the perfect time to put that star on top of a tree or play Santa's sleigh on top of the roof? This is the topic of today's installment of our ongoing call-in series called Small Stakes, Big Opinions, which we discuss something that is deeply felt and not all that meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

In previous conversations, we've debated topics like the best train line, bagel shops, best seltzer flavors, cruise ships, where upstate New York begins. Joining us today to help us navigate this important question is All Of It producers Luke Green, Jordan Lauf, and L. Malik Anderson. Welcome to the studio.

Luke Green: Hello, hello.

L. Malik Anderson: Hey.

Alison Stewart: Listeners. We want you to join in on this conversation. Do you think it's too soon to put up Christmas decorations, or have you already begun placing ornaments on the tree? What about lights? Did you pull them out of the garage or the closet yet? Give us a call or send us a text at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. All right. This started because Jordan saw a story. Was it on Instagram? TikTok? It was on Instagram. Tell us about the story, Jordan.

Jordan Lauf: I saw something that deeply disturbed me personally, which-

Luke Green: Surprise, surprise.

Jordan Lauf: -is that I was scrolling on Instagram on Halloween, trying to see everyone's fun Halloween costumes, and a person who will remain nameless, but someone I know from my life, posted a story that before she and her kids go out trick-or-treating, they decorate the whole house for Christmas.

There was something that just sat so wrong with me about watching her kids in their Halloween costumes put up a stocking on a mantle and bring the Christmas tree out like it's fall, it's still sunny, it's not even cold or snowing yet, and you've got your kids in like a skeleton costume putting a Christmas tree up. There was something about that that just really did not sit right with me, so I brought it to the team, and it began a whole discussion.

Alison Stewart: Malik, is November 1st way too early to set up our decorations?

L. Malik Anderson: Absolutely not. I say when Mariah Carey Claus says that it's time, and you hear that high note, it is the right time-

Luke Green: It's time, baby.

L. Malik Anderson: -you should be pulling out your decorations. I think that person was probably prepared, as we all should be.

Alison Stewart: I understand that you might have a tree in your house. Is that true?

L. Malik Anderson: I do. It's going to stay up until January. I need everybody who comes to my house between now and January 6th, and maybe even beyond if I get a little lazy, if I'm being honest, to see that tree.

Alison Stewart: Luke, where do you stand on this?

Luke Green: I honestly have no strong opinions. I feel like I'm in between the two of you right now. I love Christmas. Like, I have a feral love of Christmas. I come down on December 1st. December 1st is when I think that lights and decorations should go up, because, to me, that's the month of enthusiasm and lights and things like that. That would be my basic setup, but I'm nowhere near the strong opinions of these two, I would say.

Jordan Lauf: We're forgetting that there's a whole holiday between now and Christmas, and it's called Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is a great holiday. It's a secular holiday with beautiful decorations. Alison, I know you were like, "I'm going to keep my pumpkins out."

Alison Stewart: I do. I kept it simple. I put leaves and lights and gourds, and I figured that would just translate to Thanksgiving.

Jordan Lauf: I just think that winter is so long already.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] It's too long.

Jordan Lauf: Why rush it? Let's take November and get in the autumnal spirit. Keep your gourds out, put your pumpkins out, and let's do some Thanksgiving decorations before we pull out the tree.

L. Malik Anderson: Thanksgiving is just, let's be honest, a Christmas preview.

Luke Green: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Oh, wait, what? [laughs]

L. Malik Anderson: You don't have as many people coming to your house for the actual Christmas day. The way I see it is like, okay, Thanksgiving, when I have family over for dinner and friends, I want them to come and see the holiday spirit, to see the thought and intention I put into my Christmas decorations before Christmas, so they can say, "Wow, Malik, you go all out every year."

Jordan Lauf: Malik just wants praise, I think, is what this is coming down to.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: All right, let's read some text. "Alison, the answer is clear. No Christmas decorations before Thanksgiving. General winter decorations are fine. Frankly, I don't think any holiday-specific decorations should go up more than two weeks before said holidays. It's just tacky."

Luke Green: General winter decorations, is that just lights?

Alison Stewart: Could be lights. We're going to get to that.

Luke Green: Okay.

Alison Stewart: This next text says, "I was at my local Chase branch this morning, and while I was waiting, I realized they were playing Christmas music. I happened to mention it to one assistant VP there and asked if there was any way they could hold off since it's only November 6th? Surprisingly, he said, 'Sure, we can do that.'" Interesting. The next one, "It's way too soon. They put up Christmas decorations on 5th Avenue and Park Slope on October. No." This last text says, "Was in the TJ Maxx on 6th Avenue yesterday. It was wall-to-wall Christmas music and gifting messages. All hell, no."

Luke Green: I had the same experience where the day after Halloween, I was in a Marshalls in downtown Brooklyn. We were just shopping, but then the music comes on. At first, you're like, "Ah, I don't know about this," but then it comes on and you start singing it under your breath as you're shopping. I think that's kind of just like a pleasurable experience. I am sort of leaning towards Malik a little bit, where it's like, when it's Mariah season, it's Mariah season. When that comes on, I'm never going to be upset about it, no.

Jordan Lauf: No, that's completely incorrect. Because if you start listening to Christmas music now, there are only so many songs. How many times can you listen to Jingle Bells between now and the end of December?

Luke Green: I'm only listening to it when I'm in a place of shopping, and that's not very often.

Jordan Lauf: I think two months of Christmas carols is too long. I think we can all wait. Then it makes December much more special, and you appreciate it, rather than getting to December 5th and thinking, "Oh, my God, I can't wait-

Luke Green: "Three more weeks of this."

Jordan Lauf: -to never hear Jingle Bells ever again." That's a shame.

L. Malik Anderson: Hey, wait. Maybe you need to just build up your Christmas endurance so you can handle two months of Christmas music.

Luke Green: Yes, maybe you actually just hate Christmas, and that's why.

Jordan Lauf: No, I will not be the Scrooge. I love Christmas in its time and place.

Alison Stewart: We're debating whether it's the right time to put up Christmas decorations as part of our call-in series, Small Stakes, Big Opinions. Let's talk to Elizabeth in Yonkers. Elizabeth, you're on the air.

Elizabeth: Hello, Alison. Hi. Can you hear me okay?

Alison Stewart: I hear you great.

Elizabeth: Okay. I'm here to settle this dispute.

[laughter]

Luke Green: Oh, boy.

Elizabeth: There is only one reason. There is only one reason people are dragging their lights and everything out this early. That is, we have learned from stores, they want our money. They're the culprits who started all this early stuff. The one way to stick it to the man is to not put up anything until after December 1st. It's because they want our money that we're in this crazed decorating thing.

Alison Stewart: Elizabeth, thank you. We've got Eric and Katie, who I think are on the phone together.

L. Malik Anderson: A duo.

Eriv: Yes, hi. Good afternoon. This is Eric, and my wife, Katie, is with me. We're listening. Yes, we agree. We think Christmas decoration, right now, it's too early. It's way too early. We haven't gotten through Thanksgiving yet. There's a lot of fall events that we still need to get through. I think after Thanksgiving, they can come on. You have the whole month of December. Right now, it's too soon. I used to work retail, and we would start with Christmas music in September, which would drive me crazy. I think we got [crosstalk]--

[laughter]

L. Malik Anderson: Oh, boy.

Luke Green: That's too far.

Jordan Lauf: That's ridiculous.

Alison Stewart: That's rough. That's rough.

Eric: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Adrian from the Lower East Side. Hi, Adrian. Where do you fall in on this? What's your big opinion?

Adrian: I believe it shouldn't be put up till December 15th and taken down January 6th, the Feast of the Epiphany. Christmas is worldwide, no matter what the overlay is, is the Feast of Light. We trivialize it and dilute it by extending it for this long period, and it loses some of its magic. You have to keep the magic. Now, I will admit I keep Christmas lights above my picture railing all year round, but I don't keep them lit. If I have a party, I'll light them up. That'll give a little zoom to the place-

Luke Green: Of course.

Alison Stewart: Of course.

Adrian: -but it should be as short as possible.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. We appreciate it. I want to throw one thing out of here to you. This year, though, were the Halloween decorations particularly scary, especially in the West Village or in West 69th Street?

Jordan Lauf: I wonder how much of that is like social media, also. I think people want to post their most goriest, craziest--

Luke Green: They're trying to outdo their neighbors, too.

Jordan Lauf: Right?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Luke Green: Yes.

Jordan Lauf: I think that's true. I think people really-- You know what? I don't mind it because that is in the spirit of the holiday and it's in its appropriate time and place. I think if you're a really little kid, there are definitely some places you could go trick-or-treating and end up really, really scared this year.

Alison Stewart: Yes, they were a little scary. I was kind of psyched to see November come, just the gourds, just gourds and hay rides and haystacks.

Luke Green: No, there were some houses in my neighborhood that I had to walk quickly by at dark because, all of a sudden, this DJ starts moving as a skeleton, "I'm like, "Whoa."

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Jordan Lauf: Yes, there are a couple that jump out at you. I really don't like those that drop out of nowhere or make a noise. No, thank you.

L. Malik Anderson: I enjoy that. I like to be a little scared.

Alison Stewart: Malik the contrarian today. Let's talk to Kyle in Soho. Kyle, what's your big opinion?

Kyle: Hi, Alison. Longtime listener. You get me through my work day every day, so thank you.

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Kyle: My opinion is that Santa arrives at the end of the Macy's Day Thanksgiving Parade for a reason. That's the start of Christmas season. That's when the decorations can come out. Any earlier is Thanksgiving erasure. I was also born on Thanksgiving, so I take it as a personal thing.

[laughter]

Jordan Lauf: Oh, yes, that's personal.

Alison Stewart: That's true. Thank you for calling in. How about Fred in Newark? Fred in Newark, what say you?

Fred: Long time, first time. Let me say, I'm a Christian pastor who also has a wife who loves Christmas from a secular perspective, and so I look at it in both ways. It's most likely that Jesus was not born in December anyway. I am very open to people celebrating love, peace, joy whenever they wish. I say, if you want to put up your Christmas decorations now, go do it. Seek love, joy, peace, and share it everywhere you go.

Luke Green: Right on. [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in.

Jordan Lauf: Well, how am I supposed to argue with that now? Come on.

Luke Green: We got a pastor again, so you're good. I don't know.

Jordan Lauf: I know. That just ended it right there.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about inside the house versus the outside. Jordan, does your opinion differ if the decorations are in someone's home, a tree in the living room like Malik has, versus outside their home?

Jordan Lauf: No. That's probably a wrong opinion because whatever you do inside your own home should be your business. What does it bother me if you have a tree in your own home? I just think, why rush? For me, again, it's all about everything having its time and its place. If you really, really want to put up a tree in your own home, obviously, you should do whatever you want in your house. I really, extra, don't like when people put up the Christmas decorations outside super early because, again, it's rushing things along, and I don't want to rush the end of the year. This is a great time of the year.

Luke Green: "You're inflicting your enthusiasm on me. Save it."

Jordan Lauf: Yes, that's sort of how I feel.

Alison Stewart: This says, "Give Thanksgiving respect. It's not costumes, it's not gifts, just grateful deliciousness with people you care about. We need that break. Especially if it's cold and dark, I'm totally in favor of decorating for Christmas the day after Thanksgiving. That is festive. That is the rule in our house."

Luke Green: It is true that Thanksgiving is perhaps a less commercialized holiday, too. In between to hyper mall lights, music, it's a nice relief from that.

Alison Stewart: What's going to happen to your tree that's in your house, Malik, right now? Is it going to go through a Thanksgiving decoration and then turn into Christmas, or what's going to happen to it?

L. Malik Anderson: Right now, my tree, it's very bare. It's going through a metamorphosis. It takes some time to grow. It's actually not growing. It's very much a fake tree.

[laughter]

L. Malik Anderson: I thought out this year because I had a bunch of decorations from previous years, and I had the same decorations, and I really wanted to start anew this year. The plan is to start with some neutral lights, go with a base color, and over time, add things to it throughout the month. I see it fitting for both holidays. Right now, it could be a Thanksgiving tree. Who's going to tell me I can't? That's how I see it.

Jordan Lauf: Me, apparently.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Luke Green: Only Jordan.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Richard in Rockland County. Hi, Richard. Thanks for calling All Of It. What is your big opinion about our small story?

Richard: Hi. I was listening to your show, and I told my girlfriend, we just dropped off a car at the Enterprise here, and I said, "Listen, you got to listen to this show. It's exactly what we're going through." She goes, "Okay, fine." We sit in the car, and it starts the biggest fight ever.

[laughter]

L. Malik Anderson: Oh, no.

Jordan Lauf: Oh, no.

Luke Green: Oh, no.

Richard: She's like, "There's no way," because it's just like she just stormed out of the car. We just moved up here to Rockland County from the Bronx with transplants. We got a new home. It's just one of these things where she wants to decorate the house, which I understand, but now the argument has become, "Do we have two trees or one?" Like, "No, we brought one Christmas tree. It's enough." She wants one for the den, she wants one for the living room, and she wants to start decorating. "Listen, we just had this argument over Halloween. You did the same thing. It was summer. People were wearing shorts and short-sleeve shirts, and you're worried about pumpkins on the steps. It's crazy, just crazy."

I don't know. I wasn't raised that way. I'm Roman Catholic. I always waited till about two weeks right before Christmas, and that was it. It's really causing up strife in our relationship.

Luke Green: You see what we've done here?

Jordan Lauf: [laughs] Oh, no.

Alison Stewart: I want you to go to your home, go in your house. I want you to hug your wife. Just say, "I'm sorry, and whatever you want, dear." Happy wife, happy life. When is it too late to start decorating, Luke?

Luke Green: When is it too late for Christmas decorating?

Alison Stewart: For Christmas.

Luke Green: Christmas Day, that's pretty late. I feel like you've got to get it done by then. Yes, I would say December 1st, I think, is like-- I'm on the December 1st. I like the routine. December 1st. Anything after, you've missed the deadline. You got to launch the month in a good way. Blame it on my upbringing, but I think it's such a great time of year, my favorite time of year, such a special time of year. Why? The more you shrink it, the more special it feels. Blame it on my upbringing. It's like, the more you punish yourself and make it as short as possible-

Alison Stewart: Learn a lot about Luke. [laughs]

Luke Green: -the more you will appreciate it, and for its timeline.

Alison Stewart: When is too late to start decorating?

Jordan Lauf: I think the callers who are saying two weeks before, that's a little short. That's a shrunken schedule to me. I agree with Luke that around the 1st of December is a good time. I would make the argument now. People are going to get upset because I said, "Don't start too early." My flip side of this take is you can leave your decorations up as long as you want in January.

Alison Stewart: What?

L. Malik Anderson: What?

Luke Green: No, that's nuts. We got problems here.

Alison Stewart: We got problems.

Jordan Lauf: There's no holiday in January, so it's not like you're giving January a holiday short shrift.

Luke Green: New Year's.

Jordan Lauf: Sure, but there aren't really New Year's decorations. It's festive and it's cold. January is cold and sad. Sometimes having a nice tree with some lights really can improve your winter. I say don't start too early, but you can keep it up as long as you want.

Alison Stewart: Melanie from Loch Arbour, New Jersey. What do you say?

Melanie: I say hello, and I don't start outside even until the week of Christmas, like about five days before, maybe six. I don't decorate inside the house until Christmas week, sometimes even Christmas Eve if I'm busy. I leave it up until, usually, Valentine's Day.

Jordan Lauf: Wow.

L. Malik Anderson: [laughs] Wow.

Luke Green: Wow.

Alison Stewart: Right? She's got a whole different schedule.

Luke Green: Wow.

L. Malik Anderson: A new tree.

Alison Stewart: Appreciate that. Let's talk to Dave in Seaford. Dave, what's your big opinion?

Dave: When I was growing up, my dad wouldn't let us put up the tree till Christmas Eve.

Alison Stewart: Me, too.

Dave: As an adult now, because I love this holiday and I work 40 hours a week or more, I want it up as soon as possible so I can have as much joy as possible.

Luke Green: There we go.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Kim in Brooklyn. Kim, what's your big opinion?

Kim: Hi. First and foremost, Halloween is 365 days a year.

[laughter]

Kim: Second, October's for Halloween, November's for Thanksgiving, December's for Christmas and Hanukkah, and January is a free-for-all. That's my feeling.

Luke Green: Mix it all together.

Alison Stewart: All right, we've got a last minute or so. Does anybody want to make a final case for anything we've discussed, whether up too early, too late? Do you leave your lights up longer? What do you think?

L. Malik Anderson: Listen, I'm of the opinion you should be able to celebrate whatever holiday you want whenever you want. Life is short. I mean, times, sometimes, can be tough. If you need that little boost or that joy, go ahead. Who am I to stop you?

Alison Stewart: What do you say, Luke?

Luke Green: I would say that my favorite part of the lights tradition and decorations is that it makes people all feel connected to each other, and you get to walk down your block, and people are working together to make it beautiful together. I think, as Malik said, that is a tradition to be valued and appreciated. Do it whenever you want. I've come down that way.

Alison Stewart: Do you keep your lights up throughout the holiday?

Luke Green: Yes, keep them up. I think January 6th is a good cutoff date.

Alison Stewart: Jordan, you have strong opinions.

Luke Green: Here we go.

Jordan Lauf: I have been the Scrooge this whole time, but I know that everyone is talking about having joy and comfort and celebration in their life, and I think that's lovely. Really, you should do whatever the heck you want inside your own home, but I reserve the right to judge you.

[laughter]

Luke Green: You know what? I agree with that, yes.

Alison Stewart: This last text says, "Lights, whites only can be strong during daylight savings. Xmas-specific decorations are better in early December, and the tree is nicest one week before Christmas and left up until Valentine's Day."

Luke Green: We have a lot to look forward to, everyone.

Jordan Lauf: We may have dissolved one marriage, but maybe we've solved some other problems.

Alison Stewart: That does it for this edition of-

Luke Green: Sorry, Richard.

Alison Stewart: -Small Stakes, Big Opinions. Seriously, go give your wife a kiss. [laughs] Malik, Jordan, and Luke, thanks for joining us.

Jordan Lauf: Thanks.

Luke Green: Thank you.

L. Malik Anderson: It's been fun.

Alison Stewart: I'm Alison Stewart. This is All Of It. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.