Alison: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Our Oscar week continues with the first film to be nominated for 16 Academy Awards. Ryan Coogler's box office hit and critically acclaimed vampire thriller, Sinners, is nominated for Best Picture, and recently, Coogler earned a BAFTA for Best Original Screenplay, the first Black winner to do so.

One of the defining relationships of the film is between the characters Delta Slim and Sammie. They represent past and future, unconcerned, redeemed, and tempted. They are played by the Oscar-nominated veteran actor Delroy Lindo and talented newcomer Miles Caton. The character of Delta Slim is seen a lot. On the surface, he's a local, he likes a drink or two, and he plays a mean harmonica, but he has a greater wisdom than a passerby might realize.

Sammie, the preacher's boy, knows his way around a guitar, but his father forbids the blues and the temptation that comes with it. Then his cousins show up from Chicago with plans to open a juke joint. At first, Delta Slim dismisses Sammie as the kid who knows nothing about the blues, but as the film progresses and the characters reckon with faith, desires, and evil, Delta Slim and Sammie realize their connection is deeper than they thought.

Sinners is now streaming on both Prime Video and HBO Max. The film is up for an Oscar for Best Picture, Cinematography, Casting, Costume Design, Directing, and my next guest, Delroy Lindo, is a nominee for Best Supporting Actor. The awards ceremony will air this upcoming Sunday, March 15th, at 7:00 PM on ABC and Hulu. Both Delroy and Miles joined me at the top of the year to discuss the film. I started off by asking about their thoughts on Ryan Coogler's script.

Delroy: I recognized that it was brilliant in as much as it was a much larger story, a much larger narrative, and that Ryan was using the horror or the vampire genre to tell a much, much, much larger story, and I connected with that almost immediately.

Alison: When you first heard that Ryan Coogler was going to do this film, you had an audition tape, and we heard that it was a dark audition tape.

[laughter]

Alison: First of all, tell me about this audition tape.

Miles: It was, I want to say, one of three audition tapes that I had sent in. This one in particular was just a video of me singing a song and playing guitar. Normally coming from the music side, when I do videos, when I do covers or stuff like that, I normally go for a more ambient type of vibey. [laughs] I had never done a self-tape audition before, so I didn't know the parameters or the guidelines. I just did me, and I just sent in the vibey kind of-- I don't think it was that dark.

[laughter

Miles: They saw something. That was what it was.

Alison: Do you remember what you played?

Miles: I played Bring It On Home To Me by Sam Cooke.

Alison: I don't want anybody to listen to that. That's all right. Delroy, I've heard you talk about how collaborative Ryan is as a director with his cast and with his crew. What does that open for you as an actor? How does that help you be creative?

Delroy: It establishes a trust almost immediately. When there is trust, one can relax because one is aware that the lines of communication are open constantly, and there is, and this is another term that I've used to describe Ryan, there's a generosity of spirit. He's open to what everybody has to contribute. Now, he may not use everything, but he's very, very open to hearing what his collaborators have to say to him. That was certainly the case in my case with him.

Alison: What does trust mean to you with a director?

Delroy: That's a great question. That's a great question. I think it means that one can relax inside of whatever one's process is, and one can be assured that one can offer opinions, offer feedback to the material, and that it will be heard. Also, it means that one is more likely to take chances in the work, creative, artistic chances in the work. I think that's what it means to me.

Alison: Miles, Delroy is a veteran of acting. What did you learn from him?

Delroy: Oh, don't ask him that.

Alison: You shush. You shush.

[laughter]

Delroy: Wow, wow, wow. Make it good, brother.

Miles: So, so, so much. More, I think, than what he said or what he told me, but just by watching him and seeing his process and how he approaches his work was extremely inspiring and something I paid extreme detail to. This being my first time really acting and taking on this big challenge, this was definitely like the greatest challenge of my life so far on this journey. Finding my process was definitely something that I knew was going to be really important for this process and for this role.

Once I got to set and I was able to see what everybody was doing, I was able to see Delroy and grew up seeing him in films and just being able to see his process and how he is able to get into character and what he does to get himself to the place that he needs to be was just something that I really wanted to incorporate into my own work. There was a particular scene that he did as well that-- We will probably talk about it later, but he improv'd, and to be in that moment, it kind of took me outside of what I was in.

I feel like we were in the moment, but at the same time, 2024 at the time, it brought me to the present moment, just understanding the work that he was doing when it comes to the blues and when it comes to understanding why those people were making the music that they were making at that time. The choices that Delroy made acting in that scene made it so clear, and I could feel it in my core. Man, just being able to see him working and just having the honor to hear him speak and be around him for that period of time was a blessing.

Alison: We'll talk about that scene in a minute. Delroy, this is Miles' film debut, and as an experienced actor, what did you get out of working with somebody their first time? Because sometimes you can kind of forget when you're working with actors who've done this before, but when you work with somebody for the first time, what was something you were reminded of?

Delroy: What I'm reminded of specifically with Miles, and I'm thinking about this right now in this moment as I'm listening to him, and Miles has something in common with a young lady that I worked with many years ago, Aaliyah, who also came from the music world, and they both have an openness. Miles has an openness. There was no artifice. He was there to contribute to bring himself naturally and very, very open. That made working with him that much--

I mentioned the word "trust." I trusted unequivocally that whenever I communicated, and I've not said this thing, I'm saying it right now on air, but I trusted that whenever I communicated with Miles in the work, he would be open to receive what I was communicating. That came with a certain responsibility, but he was always very present, period, the end, he was present. I think that we see that in his work in the film, and it was functioning on a number of levels. As you say, young actor, his first film, but as Sammie, he's infusing all of those qualities into what he's doing inside the work, and it made the work that much richer.

Alison: Do you think having your background in music set you up for this film in a different way?

Miles: 100%.

Alison: How?

Miles: Essentially, that's what got me there. Just growing up in a musical family and understanding artistry and understanding music and the power that it has from young, I think, is something that was extremely important for this film. Even with my knowledge of music, being on this project, I've learned, and I understand it now on a much, much deeper level, understanding how important blues has been for the genres that we listen to today.

The music was definitely like a life raft for me, a safety for me, being on this project, being that acting was so new for me, and I'm in a new environment, and it's different circumstances that I haven't really seen before. I had music to carry me through that, listening to the essential blues playlist that Ryan sent me when we first started working on the project, listening to Charlie Patton, Muddy Waters, Buddy Guys, all these blues musicians that I would be able to draw inspiration from for my character, for the sound, and just for understanding what they were going through during that time.

Alison: I'm speaking with actors Delroy Lindo and Miles Caton. You know them from the movie Sinners. This movie has so many levels to it. It's a love story. It's a story about the ancestors, a story about having your own, about the relationship between Irish and Blacks at the time. Then there are the vampires, which come into the film. Delroy, what do the vampires mean to you in this movie?

Delroy: The vampires represent any evil force, any outside force that would come into a community, try to infiltrate that community, and figuratively and literally try to possess that community. It's all about our community being infiltrated and destroyed, which we fight back against. That, for me, makes it a very, very, very contemporary story.

Alison: We're listening to part of my conversation with actors Delroy Lindo and Miles Caton about the Oscar-nominated film Sinners. There's more after the break.

[music]

Alison: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Sinners is up for 16 Oscar awards this Sunday. We're back with more of my conversation with actors Miles Caton and Delroy Lindo, who is up for Best Supporting Actor. In this part of the interview, I asked Delroy about a monologue his character, Delta Slim, gives during a key scene in the film after the characters pass a chain gang, and Delta Slim shares more about his past.

Delroy: In the case of that particular monologue, I had to start with committing the words to memory, which is not the way that I would like to work, but I had to, because it was a three-page monologue. Very, very similarly to the monologue in 5 Bloods a few years ago-- Thank you.

Alison: [laughs] You just caught me going, "So good."

[laughter]

Delroy: I had to commit the words to memory, and then you start to work on it in more depth as we started to rehearse the scene in context. That's where it started for me. Now, obviously, as I am committing the words to memory, I'm having responses, and I'm having thoughts and ideas about how to approach the work, but it really takes off, it really starts to unfold and evolve when one is actually in the context of working with my colleagues.

Alison: It's like learning the notes of the music.

Delroy: Then you start to learn how to play the music.

Alison: Right?

Delroy: Yes, that's right.

Alison: You talked about a moment in this scene where Delroy improvises.

Miles: Yes.

Alison: Tell us a little bit more about that moment.

Miles: After he tells that heartbreaking story. Another thing I also noticed is that throughout the film, you see Sammie, he's definitely in a position where he's learning a lot. He's receiving a lot of information and interpreting it in his own way, but when it comes to Delta Slim, it's always a different look that he gives and understanding. On a musician level, you just understand things differently, you connect on a different level, and I think that's also the dynamic and relationship between Sammie and Delta Slim.

That scene in particular, we get to the end of the monologue, and he transitions into song. It was maybe a couple takes to the last take in, and he just went there. Obviously, I stayed in it as an actor, but just looking back at it, it really hit me in a different way, because that right there was the epitome of the blues. It was turning that pain and that hurt and that trauma into song, and into something that people can relate to, and that people can feel. Realizing that and watching that back in the scene, I was just blown away that he made that choice.

Alison: In doing your homework, Miles, what did you learn about the blues? What did you learn about the blues that you could use in this film?

Miles: I really leaned into the storytelling. That's a really important part of the blues, aside from the live performance and actually conveying the message in person. The storytelling back then, it had a simplicity to it, but also such a heartfelt and heart-wrenching take on what they were going through. Even Buddy Guy, who we had the pleasure of working with on this project, if you hear some of his records and you hear what he's talking about and the way he conveys it, that's something that I really leaned into now that I can now take and add to my own music.

Alison: Same for you, Delroy. When you were researching the blues, and you're getting into the blues.

Delroy: It's not a music of victims. There's no victimization.

Miles: That part.

Delroy: Even when a cat is talking about, my woman done left me and she took up another man, there's an artistry that transforms those sentiments into storytelling, into song, into something that's beautiful. It does not take away from the sentiment of the lyric, but what it does is that it elevates the lyric to a place of artistry. That, I believe, is what we are all connecting to and responding to in the work. These were some very, very, very complicated human beings.

I listened to Son House. I listened to quite a bit of Son House, and then you listen to his story, and the classic, the classic relationship between, what do you call it, the sanctified and the sinful, which you can also, and I hope I'm not getting out of my depth right now, you can see that in contemporary musicians. I'm thinking about Prince, the "Sanctified and the Sinful," that--

Alison: Oh, that is Prince.

Delroy: All day long, all day long. I'm thinking of him. There are many, many, many musicians that one can categorize in those kinds of terms. When you think about Son House, when you think about Muddy Waters, thinking about Howlin' Wolf, and you get the sense of how they live their lives and how they use their artistry to articulate their lives through music. To your question, I learned in exposing myself to these artists, I was learning about who they are as human beings, learning about their lifestyles. Hopefully, I was interpreting that through my own process as I was pursuing creating Delta Slim. Can I just say one thing?

Alison: Of course.

Delroy: That is what this young man represents, the continuum, the continuing of that legacy, of that tradition, and that's what needs to be protected in the film, ultimately. That's what I understand and realize needs to be protected at all costs.

Alison: You're from a musical family. When did you first decide to take on music? Was there a decision you had to do it?

Miles: I didn't. I was drawn to it. I was drawn to it. I grew up around it, and it's always been a part of my life. It's always been something that I wanted to do. I started singing when I was three years old, and I remember performing and just always knowing this is what I want to do with it. I didn't know where exactly I was going to end up or where it could go, but I knew that this is what I wanted to do.

Alison: Can we play a little bit from Sinners?

Miles: Yes.

Alison: Can we play Travelin'?

Miles: Let's do it.

Alison: Let's do it.

[MUSIC - Miles Caton: Travelin']

Travelin'

I don't know why in the world I'm here

Travelin'

I don't know why in the world I'm here

Woo hoo, boy!

Alison: That's Michael B, by the way.

[MUSIC - Miles Caton: Travelin']

'Cause the woman that I'm lovin'

She sure don't feel my care

We gon' make some money. We gon' make some money!

Saddlin'

I don't know which way to go

Alison: What does the guitar mean to Sammie in that moment?

Miles: Everything.

Alison: Everything, right?

Miles: Everything. Everything. That's like when you get around the people that you're trying to impress and you got a moment to really show what you got, it's like, "Oh yes, now I got to show off." I think that was just freedom for him. He finally got to get out and be around his cousins and do something different that he never gets to do in his daily life, and that was just the start of it.

Alison: Y'all are on your press tour. We all know that.

Miles: Yes.

Alison: So many people you have to talk to, so many voices that you have to hear. Delroy, what has this press tour been like? Because you've been on other ones. What's been unique about it?

Delroy: Doing a press tour with one's colleagues, you always learn a little bit more about them. On this project, I've learned a lot about my colleagues in terms of the way that they've articulated how they approach their work, for instance. I would say I have learned a tremendous amount about my colleagues and from my colleagues as they have in responding to the various questions they've been asked by the press or whomever the interviewer might be. I've really learned a lot.

Mike B, you mentioned Mike, Michael B. Jordan, who plays the twins, Stack and Smoke, in this, and learning about how he approached the work, listening to Miles, how Miles approached the work, Wunmi, who plays Annie in the film, Jayme. As each of the actors on the press tour have expressed how they've approached this work, I'm learning a lot. Jayme, who plays-

Miles: Pearline.

Delroy: -Pearline, thank you. Who plays Pearline, talks about, as a young student, having stopped singing. For various reasons, she stopped. In this process, she was given the license, you used the word "agency," to reconnect with her musical talent, and how Ryan and the process of working on this film allowed her to open up, reconnect with her music, and give it expression. Your question, I've learned so much about my colleagues and from my colleagues in the process of doing these various press tours.

Alison: Has there been anything that you wanted to say that you haven't gotten to say about the film?

Delroy: How much I revere my colleagues. I revere, and I hope this doesn't come across as being obsequious, but I love these guys, man, I do. I love the depth of respect and love that we've all shared as a company of co-workers. It happens rarely, frankly, but we had it on Sinners. I think that's part of what's conveyed as you watch the film. I've loved this experience. I love my colleagues, and I've really appreciated and enjoyed learning more about them.

Alison: You had a special first film.

Delroy: Oh my God.

Miles: Oh, man.

Delroy: Oh my God. Big time.

Alison: You're from New York, right?

Miles: Yes, from Brooklyn.

Alison: Still in the Yankees, no?

Miles: I'm not big into baseball.

Alison: Just thought I'd check.

[laughter]

Alison: That was part of my conversation with actors Delroy Lindo and Miles Caton about the 16-time Oscar-nominated film, Sinners. It's streaming now on both Prime Video and HBO Max.