Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In 2022, former Super Bowl champion turned pastor Tim Johnson found a new calling ministering to young men incarcerated on Rikers Island. His journey is now the focus of a new documentary, Fatherless No More, named after the initiative he founded. The film follows Tim as he lives in an RV just outside the Rikers gates, spending his days praying, talking, and playing basketball with the teens he mentors. We also hear directly from participants like TJ, Malik, and Corey as they reflect on the choices that brought them there.

The film offers an emotional look at Tim's relationships with the young men, their families, and the staff who work with them. Fatherless No More premiered earlier this year at the Florida Film Festival, winning the audience award for best documentary, and later took home best feature at Urban World. They had a screening in New York last week and have week week-long screenings in California this week.

Joining us from California is the film's director, Kayla Johnson, who happens to be Tim's daughter, Kayla. Welcome to All Of It. Oh, wait, Kayla, can you hear me? Oh, no. You know what, we're having an issue with you, so we're gonna deal with your audio. You can hear me; I can't hear you, so they're going to deal with that.

I'm going to do a little blood drive while they figure this out. As we get to deal with your audio and all stuff, I want to let people know that we come on the air here, and we ask you for money pretty regularly, and you say, "Geez, why not just take a pint of blood?" Well, guess what? WNYC is teaming with New York Blood Center for a one-day blood drive. It's happening on Tuesday, December 9th. That's tomorrow from 9:30 to 2:30 PM.

Do you know one pint of blood can save up to three lives? Sign up now by going to nybc.org/wnyc. That's nybc, it stands for New York Blood Center, .org/wnyc. It's going to be held here at WNYC in the green space at 44 Charlton Street in Lower Manhattan. I signed up, 10:30, I'll be there giving my blood. It's happening tomorrow on Tuesday, December 9th. Sign up at nybc.org/wnyc, and we really appreciate your time and your energy.

We also want to let you know some things that we have on tap for the show this week. We're going to talk about the Netflix and Warner Brothers deal with George Salazar of The Hollywood Reporter. Also, Leslie Jones is going to be stopping by. That one's going to happen in person. She'll be our special guest tomorrow, and we'll have the discussion: Is Gen X the Greatest Generation? We're going to want your calls for that as well.

Also, I just noted on our calendar, we have booked Rian Johnson. He's going to talk about the new Knives Out sequel, Wake Up Dead Man. Then we'll also have a performance in studio by J. Psalm. Kyle Buchanan will be stopping by to talk about the Golden Globe Awards season. That's all happening on the show, All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Kayla Johnson. She is the director of the documentary Fatherless No More. Kayla, can you hear me?

Kayla Johnson: I can hear you. Hi, Allison. Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Sorry about that little mix-up. Now that we have you, I'm so glad to talk to you. Tell us a bit about your dad, Tim Johnson, the athlete.

Kayla Johnson: My dad is a 10-year NFL vet. He played for the Pittsburgh Steelers, and then he went to Washington, and then he finished his career at the Cincinnati Bengals. He also won a national championship at Penn State University way back in the day. Very rare that you see an athlete win a national championship and a Super Bowl, so he's accomplished quite a bit in his NFL career.

Alison Stewart: Why did Tim, this national superstar, feel compelled to travel across the country to mentor young men at Rikers Island?

Kayla Johnson: Great. That's the question of the hour. My dad, after football, actually became a pastor, and he really was transformed by the heavenly father, God. He really is just a man that seeks God's heart and wants to know what's on his heart. When he was praying one day, he asked Father show me the secrets of your heart, and he Rikers Island, which was out of the blue because he's a Florida boy through and through. He doesn't have any incarcerated family in New York. He's not from New York. He was just like, "What is this?" Of course, he submitted it to the family and just some trusted folks, and one thing led to another, and he's in an RV on Rikers Island.

Alison Stewart: What did the correction folks think of him wanting to start this program at Rikers Island?

Kayla Johnson: My dad will get on me if I don't say it's an initiative, not a program. Just because the guys want to have to want to be in the initiative, where programs, you can sign up, do what you need to do, and just get what you need and leave, but this is really, truly a choice for them to be a part of.

I think there was mixed reviews. Obviously, some of the COs are like, "What is this pastor doing here? Just another pastor trying to get his one, two scenes of fame and get the cameras rolling." Then I think the other bit of it was some of the staff were desperate for change. We know Rikers to be hell on earth, essentially. When he arrived on Rikers Island, the violence was at an all-time high.

They describe it as the place was truly on fire, and so the timing of it was of divine timing. I think they just were open doors, like, "Okay, well, if you're genuine about wanting to see change here, come on in." He did something that had never been done before, which is living in an RV on Rikers Island.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about a new documentary. It follows Super Bowl champ turned pastor Tim Johnson after his faith inspired him to minister to young men on Rikers Island. I'm speaking with Kayla Johnson, the film's director. It's called Fatherless No More. It is so moving at the beginning of the film when he's meeting these young men or boys, because some of them are teenagers. Tim touches their face, and he tells each one of them that he loves them. Why is that important to show that kind of affection for these young men in prison?

Kayla Johnson: I think, when you see black men, you don't get to see pure affection in that way. He says it in the film, "We're created to be loved." It's just so interesting that showing affection and showing that type of love can be awkward. Then on top of that, being in a prison, I mean, being in a jail, I wanted to correct myself because Rikers is a jail.

Being in that environment, that is a sign of you're trying to hurt somebody or you're trying to cause harm. The fact that he flipped that on its head and used love as a way to disarm these young men is really how he was able to open the door to build trust. I think it was important to showcase that because that was the first step to even getting as far as he did and seeing the transformation that happens throughout the film.

Alison Stewart: How did the gentlemen respond in prison when this man comes up and touches their face?

[laughter]

Kayla Johnson: Initially, it was very much, "What are you doing? I'm putting my guard up. I don't know this man. What's going on?" It quickly turned into, "When is he coming back? I can't wait." They wait in a line now for him to grab their face and just speak life into them. Yes, that initial meeting of him sitting with 12, 13 guys that were not supposed to be in a room together, it was definitely uncomfortable, to say the least.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting, they really responded to him because he's truthful with them about his own history. Would you share a little bit of that?

Kayla Johnson: Yes. My dad grew up not knowing who his father was. I remember him telling stories about just not even remembering a picture of what the man looked like. I think he comes from a real, genuine place. Not some big-time Super Bowl champion coming in and trying to tell you how to live your life, but speaking from experience. I think that really resonates with the young men in these situations, because they don't want to be talked at.

They want to be related to, and so when he was able to relate to them, I think they were like, "Okay, well, if he is able to trust God and build a relationship with the Heavenly Father in this way and feel fulfilled without even knowing his earthly dad, then what does that look like for me?" I think that also opened the door for him to really speak into their lives.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about a new documentary. It follows Pastor Tim Johnson and how his faith inspired him to minister to young men on Rikers Island. I'm speaking with Kayla Johnson. Her film is called Fatherless No More. Let's talk about you as a filmmaker. I know you from ESPN, and you know your way around a camera, but you had to film in jail. That can be daunting. The young men don't necessarily want to talk to you initially. Tell me a little bit about how you went about earning their trust, deciding what you were going to talk about, deciding how much you were going to talk to them about what they'd done versus the initiative.

Kayla Johnson: You hit the nail on the head. They did not trust myself. I actually filmed with two other friends, Victoria Martinez and Ashley Robinson. Initially, they did not want to speak to us. I think because I did not go to film school or didn't have any formal training, I probably break a few filmmaking rules, if you will. I always say care more about the person and the story. That's just my motto going into filmmaking.

When we initially started filming, it was really hard to interview them. We would get one-word answers, or we would be like, "I don't want to do that." It was really just learning patience, getting to know them off-camera, and building that trust with them, like, not everything has to be punchy. When I gave them space to really share who they were off-camera, they were more inclined to want to share this story on-camera. Then also get to know me, too. Like, "Hey, I'm not trying to do anything other than tell your story correctly and accurately."

I think once they saw the work that we were doing, because being in Rikers and hearing all the stories about Rikers, it can be easy to assume that we want to do a hit piece or something that is sexy, I guess, in the headlines. I really wanted to be honest and true to the story. When they understood that, I think that's when the trust started to build with each of the young men that we followed.

Alison Stewart: You said you wanted to display their stories accurately. What is something that is accurate that you think hasn't been covered about people who are at Rikers Island?

Kayla Johnson: I want to say this gently because I don't dismiss anything that has been told about Rikers and how horrible it is and how horrible people are treated there, but I will say a story that's missed is that there are people that care. I would have to say Officer Cummings and Officer White are two COs at that place that love those guys deeply and want to see them succeed.

Honestly, without them, this initiative wouldn't have gone as far as it did because their hearts to want to see these guys flourish not only behind bars, but when they get out and continue to grow as young men, is just something that's hardly covered that I've seen. There are people at Rikers that care about the well-being of these young men. You'll see in the film that that is displayed as well.

There's some young men that have gotten out, and we've been able to break bread with them together. COs and formerly incarcerated young men. It's amazing to be able to be on that side of filmmaking where I'm able to share the story honestly and accurately.

Alison Stewart: You also got in touch with some of the families of the young men who were incarcerated. Why was it important to feature families in this?

Kayla Johnson: Because I think it's important to share the wholeness of the person. You can know these guys by maybe their number, but I really wanted them to be described beyond just like the people that they were in close proximity to. We really were able to get more in-depth in their stories when we interviewed the moms and aunts of the young men. They know them beyond just the mistake they made, but from young kids growing up, and their personalities and their family dynamic and all that. That was really important for me to capture because I wanted to get the wholeness of a person, not just one side of them.

Alison Stewart: What does Pastor Tim, aside from playing basketball and getting some good pizza, [chuckles] what does he give them and what does he leave them with?

Kayla Johnson: I think the biggest thing is love. I think that you can be like, "Oh, that's cliche," but you don't really understand how disarming love can be until you experience the father's love, the heavenly Father's love. I think that God sent him there to express that to those young men. I really believe that he wanted to show them how much they're loved and how much they belong. When you know that you belong, then you start to think differently.

We were just at Rikers, I think, last week, and one of the young men said, "Being in this initiative, it gives me something to live for." That really struck me, because some of these guys make these decisions because they don't think they have anything to lose. He said that he has something to live for and he has something to lose, and so I think that is what he brings to them.

Alison Stewart: The name of the documentary is Fatherless No More. It follows Super Bowl champion turned pastor Tim Johnson as his faith inspired him to minister to young men on Rikers Island. I've been speaking with Kayla Johnson, the film's director. Congratulations on the film, Kayla.

Kayla Johnson: Thank you so much.