David Furst: This is All Of It. I'm David Furst in for Alison Stewart. Thanks for joining us today. On today's show, we mark Lunar New Year with food writers Eric Kim and Hetty Lui McKinnon, who join us to talk about their favorite dumplings. Kate Brown is here to talk about her new book, Tiny Gardens Everywhere: The Past, Present and Future of the Self-Provisioning City. And we'll speak with intimacy coordinator Ita O'Brien, who has taken what she has learned from choreographing sex scenes in films and television and is applying it to personal relationships in real life. That's the plan, so let's get this started.

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The Winter Olympics wrap up with a closing ceremony on Sunday. The United States currently places third in both the number of gold medals, 7, and the total number of medals, 24 in both categories. It follows Italy at number two and Norway at number one. There has been a lot of drama at this year's games, feel good stories, as well as accusations of cheating and misconduct. Even the curlers are cursing. Joining us now for an Olympics check in is Slate correspondent Justin Peters. Welcome.

Justin Peters: Hey, David, how you doing?

David Furst: So how much Olympics, how much of this are you taking in over the weeks here?

Justin Peters: As much as I can. I'm going to bed late, waking up early, mainlining Nordic combined and curling and all of the weird stuff you forget about in the intervening years, and it's really a blast. I'm having a lot of fun.

David Furst: That's great. Well, let's start with some news today and your latest article. Just today, American skier Mikaela Shiffrin took hold the took home the gold in slalom. Why is this an especially big deal?

Justin Peters: Well, she has been shut out of the Olympic podium since Beijing in 2022. She's the best ski racer of all time, and her best discipline is the slalom. She has more World Cup medal finishes than anyone else who's ever done it, but at the Olympics, she's fallen apart. In 2022, she skied out in both the giant slalom and the slalom. There's this heartbreaking visual in 2022 where she's just sitting by the side of the course like a forlorn kid, just looking at the other skiers zip past her. Then this year was supposed to be her big redemption tour Olympics-wise, and in every race she skied before this morning, the redemption hasn't come.

In the team event, she squandered the lead that her teammate, Breezy Johnson, gave with a downhill by skiing a fairly pedestrian race in the slalom, in the giant slalom, she only finished in 11th, and this was her last chance to get the monkey off her back this morning.

David Furst: Wow, so it's like a Hollywood ending there.

Justin Peters: It really is. She skied great in the first run, and then the second run, immediately before she went up to ski, the penultimate skier went out the gate and immediately stumbled in the first slalom gate.

David Furst: Wow.

Justin Peters: It felt like a premonition of some sort that Shiffrin was going to stumble again, but she did what she's the best in the world at. She picked up speed as she went down the course. She hit every gate. She made her turns and she crossed the finish line and she had her gold. There was this look on her face like, "Thank God."

David Furst: Relief.

Justin Peters: Relief. Extreme relief.

David Furst: Well, congratulations to her. That always seems like such a stressful sport. The slalom looks so hard.

Justin Peters: It's terrifying. I'm a terrible recreational skier. Sometimes you watch a sport like curling on the Olympics and you're like, "I could do that," and you feel like you actually could, but--

David Furst: Badly.

Justin Peters: Badly, but you wouldn't embarrass yourself or kill yourself. These skiers are going down the slopes at 70 miles an hour. It's the scariest thing in the world.

David Furst: Well, listeners, if you want to join this discussion, you can call in and share some of your favorite stories from the 2026 Winter Olympics. What sports are you watching? What have been some of your favorite moments? The number to call is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. You just mentioned curling, so let's go there.

Justin Peters: Let's do it.

David Furst: Another one of your most recent articles is The Argument That's Tearing Apart Olympic Curling. Things got a little crazy this past week. What is going on in the world of curling?

Justin Peters: You don't expect curling to be a hotbed of acrimony. You expect it to be the sort of sport where you're a 55-year-old attorney from Minneapolis and you still somehow make the Olympic team. That actually happened this year in Team USA, but in a match between Sweden and Canada, things got really heated with when the Swedish curlers accused the Canadian curlers of "double-touching" the stone as it crossed the "hog line." If you don't understand what any of those terms are, I didn't either.

David Furst: That's a lot, right?

Justin Peters: It's a lot. The stone, this is the granite rock that you slide along the ice.

David Furst: Once you release it from your hand, you're not supposed to touch it again. Is that right?

Justin Peters: That's right. That's the rules. Curling has very few rules, and that is one of them. Once it's off your hand and crosses the green line, that's 10 meters from where you begin your delivery, then it's the broom's turn to determine where it goes.

David Furst: Well, let's hear a clip. This is a clip from the moment that we're talking about. This is the Canadian and the Swedish men's curling teams when the Swedish player accused the Canadian player of touching the stone twice.

Oskar Eriksson: Apparently, it's okay touching the rock after the hog line. I don't know. Or touching the rock.

Marc Kennedy: Who's doing it?

Oskar Eriksson: You don't know it.

Marc Kennedy: Who?

Oskar Eriksson: It's a couple. It's a couple.

Marc Kennedy: Who? I haven't done it once. You can [bleep] off.

Oskar Eriksson: You haven't done it once?

Marc Kennedy: I haven't done it once.

Oskar Eriksson: Okay.

Marc Kennedy: Don't you--

Oskar Eriksson: I'll show you a video after the game.

Marc Kennedy: How about you walking around on my peel on the last day and dancing around the house here? How about that? Come on Oskar, just [bleep].

Oskar Eriksson: Showed you the video?

Marc Kennedy: I don't give a [bleep]. They were standing here and they didn't call it.

Speaker 5: Your teammate already watched it.

David Furst: I mean, wow.

Justin Peters: Pretty spicy for the Olympics.

David Furst: This is curling. This is the sport that I watch almost as my moment of Zen, sliding the boulder down the ice, sweeping with those swiffer-like brooms, good sportsmanship, grabbing a pint with your opponents after the game.

Justin Peters: It's the white noise of Olympic sports, right, and so to have this blow up on ice is sort of torn the curling event asunder.

David Furst: What is likely to come out of this debate and this moment that is tearing curling apart?

Justin Peters: I assume that once the Olympics conclude, World Curling will issue some amendment to the rules that makes especially clear that you are not allowed to tap the stone with your index finger once you let go of it. I feel like there's no malice intended here on Marc Kennedy's part from Canada. This feels to me more like some--

David Furst: Some malice intended during that post incident fight there.

Justin Peters: They're athletes. Stuff gets heated, even if it doesn't feel like they're exerting themselves, but I think after the Olympics are done, he'll adjust his delivery and he won't do it that way again.

David Furst: Do you think we're going to see any rules change?

Justin Peters: I think there'll be a clarification. I think there'll definitely be some clarifications issued.

David Furst: I'm seeing some texts coming through right now. "I can't wait for SNLs to spoof this," someone says. Another one says, "I have loved watching pair figure skating."

Justin Peters: Oh, it's so much fun. Pair figure skating, it's like the X Games on ice. They're skating around, they're executing these incredibly difficult throws, all with effectively razor blades strapped to their feet. It looks beautiful and poetic, but it is one of the more extreme events in the Olympic program.

David Furst: If you would like to join this discussion, you can send us a text or call 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-9692. If you want to share what some of your favorite Olympic moments have been. Just coming back to curling for a second, can you give us an update on the US curling team? Because there was an incredible day on Sunday for the men's team, but then things sort of fell apart yesterday. Right?

Justin Peters: Yes, I think they're out of it, the men's team is. They lost--

David Furst: Like New Yorker, Danny Casper.

Justin Peters: Yes, New Yorker Danny Casper, who's bringing that New York energy to the Minnesota nice sport of curling, but they lost nine to two to Great Britain today. They conceded after the sixth and their journey at the Olympics is done. Women's squad still has a chance though, so we'll be pulling for them.

David Furst: That's great. And if you did catch the curling bug while watching the Olympics, there's good news. You can try it for yourself right in Brooklyn. Reporter Jamie McClellan wrote all about the Brooklyn Lakeside Curling Club in Prospect Park for Gothamist last week. Just to get you in the mood, here's a little bit of sound of him in action during a curling lesson with one of the club's coaches encouraging him.

Speaker 6: Steve, hard. Come on. Step out. Hard. All the way, hard.

David Furst: It's a pretty chill sport, but there's a lot of screaming involved.

Justin Peters: Apparently. There's a lot of screaming. That was very stressful, David. That cut was very stressful to me.

David Furst: Well, when you have to sweep, you better sweep.

Justin Peters: You got to sweep. Got to sweep.

David Furst: For a decade now, you have been writing Slate's Olympics Jerk Watch.

Justin Peters: That's right. I am the foremost expert in world Olympic jerkdom. It's a heck of a burden, but I'm willing to carry it.

David Furst: Justin Peters, I didn't realize that was part of your title, but that is the actual name of the column.

Justin Peters: Yes. Olympics Jerk Watch is a long running feature we do that subjectively assesses whether various people at the Olympics are or are not jerks. It's a stupid idea, but it exists to provide a counterweight to the feel good human interest stories that are basically the only thing you'll see on NBC and the Primetime Broadcast. Those are parts of the Olympic story as well, but also bad sportsmanship is part of the Olympics, and people saying odd things after they cross the finish line is part of the Olympics, and we try to capture that.

David Furst: Okay, so let's get into some of that. Who are some of the potential jerks? I'm using your language, not mine-

Justin Peters: That's fair.

David Furst: -on your radar this year?

Justin Peters: I wrote a piece last week and the listeners may have heard about this because it's the confession heard around the world. A Norwegian biathlete named Sturla Holm Laegreid crossed the finish line for his first race, won bronze, and immediately upon being interviewed by Norwegian television because oddly enough, biathlon is the most popular winter sport in Europe. They love it, and they especially love it in Norway.

David Furst: This is a pretty obscure sport. Explain what this is. This is like two sports crammed together.

Justin Peters: Yes, it's cross-country skiing and riflery. You've got to ski around a track and then you stop, and while your heart is still racing, you've got to drop into a prone position, and hit a target the size of a golf ball from 60 yards away. Then you get up, ski some more, shoot from a standing position. It's weird. It's objectively weird, but they love it in Europe.

David Furst: He gets up on the medal stand and what's his go to?

Justin Peters: Well, he gets up in the post-race interview because, of course, they have post-race interviews with third-place biathlon finishers in--

David Furst: That's how big a deal it is, yes.

Justin Peters: It is a huge, huge deal. Immediately, he starts talking about how he was so sad this week because he had found the love of his life six months ago, and then three months ago, he had cheated on her, and he was so sorry about it. He was desperate to tell the world how much he loved this woman, and hopefully, by making a jerk of himself, he might win her heart back in the manner of romantic comedy manic protagonists from time immemorial.

David Furst: How did that go?

Justin Peters: It didn't work. It didn't work. Turns out there's a reason why you only do this sort of stuff in the movies and not in real life. The girlfriend, now ex-girlfriend, was like, "Thank you very much, that was incredibly embarrassing, and I want no part of you."

David Furst: Okay, so not a good plan. The world of figure skating had a few surprises in the last week, the main one being the rise and fall of Quad God.

Justin Peters: You got a feel for the Quad God, Ilia Malinin. Now I have to--

David Furst: Can you explain what this is all about?

Justin Peters: Sure. I've got to set this up a little bit, because a casual viewer doesn't understand why it's so impressive what Malinin does. Until Ilia Malinin came on the figure skating scene around four years ago when he was 17 years old, no one had successfully landed a jump called the quadruple Axel in competition. Only one person had ever attempted it, Yuzuru Hanyu, the Japanese figure skater who tried it and didn't land it in 2022 in Beijing. Now here comes this kid from the suburbs of D.C. and he's landing quad axles like nobody's business. He's landed 12 of them in competition, and in the process, he has remade the sport of male figure skating in his image. People are saying he's invincible.

David Furst: That's incredible.

Justin Peters: It is. He comes to the Olympics, and it was the surest bet in Milan that Melanin would bring home the gold in the men's event. Then, as Icarus and other prideful people have known for a millennia, pride sometimes go-eth before a fall, and I feel, David, like his-- the end of his story was written when he began his free skate routine with an audio clip of himself speaking. He was intoning some very portentous phrase as he began his escape, and you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to skate to Abba or something like that.

He went for the quad axle, he pulled out of it in the middle of the jump. The NBC commentators were surprised. He messed up a few other jumps, and when all was said and done, he ended in eighth place, breaking down in tears, and some kid from Kazakhstan, whom no one other than true figure skating fans had ever heard of, came away with the gold.

David Furst: A huge surprise.

Justin Peters: Huge surprise, but also one of the cool things about the Olympics that some kid who grew up skating in a shopping mall in Almaty who had to travel around the country finding ice around the world walks away with a gold medal at a point where nobody, nobody, not even him, expecting him to do it.

David Furst: This is athletic competition, right? You have that one moment to take your shot.

Justin Peters: Even the best in the world can buckle under the pressure of the Olympics.

David Furst: We are talking about the Winter Olympics with Slate correspondent Justin Peters. If you would like to join this conversation, we have to take a quick break and we'll get to some of your calls and texts. The number, 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. This is All Of It.

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David Furst: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm David Furst in for Alison Stewart. We're speaking with Slate correspondent, Justin Peters, about the Winter Olympics. We're going to get to some of your calls and texts. If you want to join the conversation, the number is 212-433-9692. Someone writing in to say, "I want to see Team USA take on Team Canada in men's hockey. Last time those two teams played, back in February 2025 at the nationals, we all witnessed four fights in the first nine seconds of the game."

Justin Peters: I want to see that, too. That would be incredibly fun. The grudge match to end all grudge matches. I'd love to see it.

David Furst: That's going to make curling seem like curling.

Justin Peters: Exactly.

David Furst: Okay, so let's get to-- we got to get to. The bobsled.

Justin Peters: Yes, it's a great story. Elana Meyers Taylor has been bobsledding at an extremely high level for parts of the last three decades.

David Furst: 41-year-old.

Justin Peters: 41 years old. She's been to five consecutive Winter Olympics, has medaled in all of them, but has never won a gold. Bobsled's one of those sports where, unlike skiing or skating, there's not, not that much opportunity to profit from your public profile because you don't have much of a public profile. It's bobsled. In order to sustain excellence over parts of three decades at bobsleds, you've got to sacrifice a lot for not that much reward. The US men's bobsled team had to run a GoFundMe this year to try to get their full team to qualify for the Olympics.

David Furst: Wow.

Justin Peters: They did not meet the goal, so they don't have a full team in Milan, but Elana Meyers Taylor, she has two kids, both of whom are deaf, one of whom has Down Syndrome. They travel with her on the road in the World Cup circuit. She's taking care of them while also trying to compete at a high level. The other day in the women's monobob event, and this was incredibly exciting, I'd encourage listeners to go back and look at the tape of this. By 0.4 seconds, she beat out her next closest competitor and finally won gold at 41, at an age where most other people, it's all they can do to stand up straight without their back cracking.

David Furst: Okay, come on now. Now you recently are picking up on that thread. You recently wrote an article with a tongue-in-cheek headline, The Old-Guy Olympics.

Justin Peters: That's right.

David Furst: What is going on with the age demographics at the Olympics this year?

Justin Peters: Simple word, science. It's a lot easier these days for athletes to maintain peak performance into their 40s than it was in generations past, but you've seen an oddly high number of athletes who are categorically too old to be doing this. Not just competing, but competing at the highest level. Obviously, Lindsey Vonn crashed out in that scary downhill moment, but her return to Olympic competition was hardly a vanity project. She was the fastest woman on the World Cup circuit this year. She was a true metal contender.

The snowboarder, Nick Baumgartner is 44 years old and he's still bringing it. He did not medal, but he came close. 42-year-old Deanna Stellato-Dudek, a pair skater for Canada, she took a 16-year layoff from figure skating. She won the junior title in the year 2000. She's a contemporary of Tara Lipinski who's a commentator now and has been for the last three Olympics.

David Furst: Amazing.

Justin Peters: Something clicked in her mind a few years ago. She's like, "I want to get back into this," and she became the oldest female competitor in almost a century to skate at the Olympics the other day.

David Furst: Maybe you can talk about this, comment on this, Justin. We just got a text. Someone's saying, "Many people cannot afford regular cable, so we don't get to see the Olympics. This is so sad for all of the kids who don't get exposed for weeks to these incredible athletes who could be inspirations to underprivileged kids."

Justin Peters: Yes, no, that's a shame. The Olympics should belong to everybody. It's just a function of the way that the media works these days that you have to pay money to be able to see it. I would just say that a one-month subscription to NBC's streaming service, that one can easily cancel as soon as the games conclude if need be. It's a decent way to spend $14.

David Furst: Okay, well, there you go. Now, there was a major upset for America in the ice dance last week, right, when the French team took home gold over American skaters Evan Bates and Madison Chock. Why has this been subject of controversy?

Justin Peters: Well, everyone wants to see conspiracy when their favorites don't win a medal. Unfortunately, in the long history of figure skating judging, there have been a lot of documented instances of judges showing nationalistic bias or trading votes with other judges in order to unfairly elevate certain skaters over others. A lot of people said that's what happened in the ice dancing final when the French judge scored the French team higher than anyone else had and scored the American team, Chock and Bates, lower than anyone else had. I personally think it's they were so closely matched, Chock and Bates, and the French duo that it's hard to impute malice or conspiracy to the outcome, but people see what they want to see, and there's certainly a case for it.

David Furst: And US Skating announced it would not appeal the results.

Justin Peters: Yes, that wasn't going to go anywhere. I really feel like the French team won on their own merits.

David Furst: Well, let's see here. Olympics history. Oh, talking about history. Olympics history was made on Saturday when a Brazilian downhill skier took home the gold in the men's giant slalom. Why was this a big deal?

Justin Peters: The longest shutout streak in the history of the Winter Olympics. South America has been sending teams to the Winter Games since 1928. Until this weekend, no athlete from South America had ever medaled in any sport.

David Furst: Really?

Justin Peters: Never. You don't necessarily think of snow when you think of South America, but Patagonia's got a lot of mountains and the Andes are a more imposing mountain range than the Alps are. It seems statistically odd that no one had ever even eked out a bronze.

David Furst: That does seem almost impossible, but now it's been rectified.

Justin Peters: Granted they had to have a guy basically defect from the Norwegian team over to Brazil to win for them, but you take it where you can get it.

David Furst: Norway wins a lot. Incredible.

Justin Peters: They're great. They're great at the Winter Olympics. They are the all-time medal leader. They've got enough. They could stand to send one good guy to Brazil.

David Furst: Okay, fair. Now, some other countries have had surprising results so far this year. What really stands out to you?

Justin Peters: Italy and France are doing super well. You always expect to see a home country bump for the country that hosts the Olympics. I think you might see another bump for Italy this weekend with the debut, the Olympic debut, of the sport of ski mountaineering, otherwise known as skimo. It's pretty evident that the reason skimo is in the Olympics is because Italy is very good at ski mountaineering.

David Furst: Okay.

Justin Peters: I think the IOC just wanted to throw the host country a bone, but it's a sport where you ski uphill, then you take off your skis and walk uphill, then you ski uphill some more, and then you ski downhill.

David Furst: Okay, sure. Well, I can really get into the walking uphill part. Maybe that's where I can feel like I can participate. We have another text here. "Just a quick heads up." Someone says, "Don't forget the Paralympics that start March 6th."

Justin Peters: Well, that's right. You've got to also talk about the Paralympics that always happen like after the regular Olympics conclude. They're fantastic athletes in their own right and it's absolutely worth watching and paying attention to.

David Furst: We've been talking about a lot of the athletes, rightly so, but how have the fans been during this Olympics? I always find it amazing to see those huge crowds of supporters lining the those ski jump slopes, standing out there in a windy snowstorm.

Justin Peters: Oh, it's nuts. They packed 19,000 people into the biathlon stadium the other day. Outside. This is not indoors and these races last for two hours. I think the joie de vivre of the people on hand at the Olympics this year has really elevated it. It's been really fun to watch everyone having so much fun.

David Furst: I always get sad on the last day of the Winter Olympics when this has to be put back into the box for another four years, but there are five left for the Winter Olympics. Those days include more hockey, figure skating, of course, more curling, more skiing, snowboarding. What events are you excited about before this wraps up?

Justin Peters: Watch the 50-kilometer mass start cross-country event, the women's event that kicks off on the final day of the Olympics. It's Jessie Diggins' final Olympic race. She is the greatest American cross-country skier of all time. She is arguably the best female cross-country skier in the world and she's going to want to take gold in her last rodeo. I think that's going to be something to really enjoy.

David Furst: We just got a text. Someone's saying, "I've been watching Jessie Diggins continue to compete after suffering seriously bruised ribs in a crash at her first event, that she managed a bronze medal in the 10K skiing so hurt was amazing."

Justin Peters: She's got the guts of a lion. Honestly, if the Olympic spirit is encapsulated in any one athlete, she's got a case to say that she is the Olympic spirit.

David Furst: Okay, Tom in Montgomery, New York. Thanks for that text. Tom's saying, "Wrapping up her Olympic career in style."

Justin Peters: That's absolutely right. With ribs that might be broken and skiing 50 kilometers across flat terrain in the cold.

David Furst: Don't forget USA women's hockey. When is that happening?

Justin Peters: I don't have it at the top of my tongue right now, but--

David Furst? Tomorrow?

Justin Peters: I think it's tomorrow. Yes.

David Furst: Tomorrow okay.

Justin Peters: Watch that tomorrow. That's going to be good.

David Furst: Slate correspondent Justin Peters, thank you for joining us. Hey, we're keeping you from the Olympics. You better get back.

Justin Peters: Yes, I got to get back and watch some more sports, David.

David Furst: Thanks for joining us.

Justin Peters: Thanks for having me.