Alison Stewart: This is All of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you are here. On today's show, actor Noah Wylie joins us to talk about his starring role in the Max drama The Pit, which has its season finale tonight. Author Gina Rippon is here to discuss her new book, which investigates why science has overlooked women with autism. Artist Debbie Taylor Kerman has a new show at the Heath Gallery in Harlem. She will join us. That's the plan. Let's get this started.

[music]

As of this month, Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club has two new stars. Listeners, I give you and don't forget to give them back; Orville Peck, as the emcee and Eva Noblezada as Sally Bowles. One is making his Broadway debut, the other, a two-time Tony nominee. Peck comes to the role from the world of country music. Last year he released the much-lauded album, Stampede, and struck a chord with his stylistic mask on at all times. In Cabaret, he takes on the narrator role, using his voice to welcome the audience and carry them through the story of Berlin around the year 1930 in a bohemian booming time that comes crashing into fascism.

Eva Noblezada plays the magnetic and headstrong Sally Bowles. Noblezada comes most recently from the West End production of Hadestown as Eurydice, a Tony nominated role. She originated on Broadway in 2019. Last year she also originated the role of Daisy Buchanan in the Great Gatsby. They both took over their roles at the beginning of last week and they're here now with me in studio to talk about the show. Welcome to All of It.

Eva Noblezada: Thank you, Alison.

Orville Peck: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: It is wild when you think about it. It was just last week.

Eva Noblezada: I know. I just was like, oh my God.

Orville Peck: It feels like we've been doing it for a year already. It's crazy.

Alison Stewart: What was the appeal of Broadway to you, Orville?

Orville Peck: I mean, listen, it's been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. I grew up before-- long before I ever did country music, I was a theater actor. I did like a lot of musical theater. I was a professional ballet dancer and did a ton of stuff in my early 20s. Then I put it aside for a long time and focused on music. The chance to come back and do that was an easy yes.

Alison Stewart: When I saw it, I said, this guy's a theater kid.

Orville Peck: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: You've done so many different roles, Eva. Before stepping into a role that you have to-- you've originated roles, but then you've also stepped into revivals of roles. Is your process different?

Eva Noblezada: Yes, it's different, I think, because there are other, I guess, blueprints of what has been done. You take that not into your show, but you take it, obviously, with deep respect and deep consideration because they pave the way, other actors who have done Eponine and Kim, and Sally Bowles, of course. It's all about making the world. We have such a collaborative and deeply inspiring director, Rebecca Frecknall, who allows us the opportunity to expand our knowledge of what we know the show to be and put it in our bodies, and use just our own perspective and own experiences to expand the universe of our characters, which has been really awesome.

Alison Stewart: Your version of The Emcee is so present. You're big, you're strong. You invite people in. There's a certain masculinity to it. What do you want the audience to experience as they meet your emcee?

Orville Peck: I think for my take on The Emcee, it was structurally, I think this character can be played a million different ways. There's a metaphoric existence to this character about does he represent a real person? Is he Germany? Is he real? For me, I had to start with it as a real person because I think that it's a very-- All these characters take a really crazy journey in the show, from where we start to where we end. It's like night and day.

For me, I had to, first, set it as a real person and with real goals, fears, ambitions, shortcomings. I think that's where I started with it. Yes, there's definitely, a gruffness and a roughness to my Emcee, but I think that's part of what lives inside of me, so just bringing some of that to the table.

Alison Stewart: Taking on Sally Bowles, what did you want to bring to Sally Bowles?

Eva Noblezada: Well, the realness, too, I guess. Just wanting her to feel human, because when I go to the theater, I'm really inspired and moved by people who just are people. I mean, that's our job, is to literally create humans from the bone marrow out into our aura. I wanted her to jump off the page and slap you in the face, and then French kiss you, and inspire you from afar, but also show you how you can relate to her, but also how you don't want to be as somebody amidst a political background that are you actively against it? Are you apolitical?

I wanted her to jump out in those ways where you go, "I don't want to be that, or I see myself in you, or, holy crap, I don't know what-- I can only imagine what you're going through in that predicament of having a child and then choosing to not have the child." And so, yes, I just wanted to bring a realness to her and a fleshness, and a rawness to her that-- because I had seen the show twice and any iteration, like Orville said, is so different but still so potent and relevant, and inspiring.

You can never really see the same Cabaret twice, even if it's the same cast, I think, because I feel like even today we're still finding new moments where we just live a little bit differently in that.

Alison Stewart: Yes. What's a new moment that you found for yourself in the past week?

Orville Peck: I mean, tons. It's funny, I think once the adrenaline settled from preview and then from our gala night and everything, I've been finding little moments every day, like Eva said. I mean, the beautiful thing about live theater is that it is you are-- Not only is the audience experiencing this maybe for the first time, but we're re-experiencing it each time for the first time. Things go wrong, things go differently, things go whatever. Wo we find stuff all the time.

I mean, I actually think that particularly the relationship between the Emcee and Sally's characters, there's not very much definition of that in this script, just as a story. I think we keep finding new elements to who these people are to one another, what they see in themselves, in each other, what they. I think it's actually my real focus, character-wise, has really been a lot of my resentment and things that I feel as the emcee are projected towards Sally. I find a lot of that in the show.

Alison Stewart: My guests are Orville Peck and Eva Noblezada. They star in Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. When did you guys meet? Because you guys have chemistry beyond belief.

Eva Noblezada: Well, thank you so much. We met--

Alison Stewart: I was watching you guys, I'm like, "Oh, those two."

Orville Peck: We're long lost soulmates.

Eva Noblezada: Yes, we really are. Met for the first time in the elevator at Gilbertos.

Orville Peck: Yes. Going to get fitted for our suits that we all wear at the end of the show? Yes, we met when we had already been cast for a while and I think I was in New York while we were here doing promo and doing some fittings, and things like that. Yeah, not pretty soon into the process, I guess. Yes, not a very long time ago.

Eva Noblezada: Not at all.

Alison Stewart: Eva, what was your first impression? We're going to talk about you later. Not here. What's your first impression of Orville?

Eva Noblezada: Well, first of all, Rockstar, superstar, super-hot, super talented. When I met him in person, I was like, "Oh, he's himself." He's so-- I know down to earth seems such a boring term to describe Orville, but he just knows who he is and he goes through life, I think, just being himself and unapologetically so. I think that's really inspiring to be around. It just calls out your inner child and makes you feel really safe. In terms of work, he's ready to-- He shows up to work and he's working, he's working on--

And he's also leaving. What I love about Orville is that I love when people can leave themselves. Leave your drama at the door so that when you come on stage, you can be free in your character. You're not being hindered down by what you're thinking about yourself or what you're thinking the audience is thinking. That to me is a sign of a self-less present actor. It's really amazing to work with someone like that. I wish we had more things together. I think I look you in the eyes three times during the entire show.

Orville Peck: I know, but they're a powerful three times.

Eva Noblezada: They're very powerful.

Alison Stewart: Orville, what have you learned from this two-time Tony nominee about being on Broadway, about your craft?

Orville Peck: It sounds like a pageant answer, but I genuinely am so honored, and it set the bar so high for me for my Broadway debut to be able to work with Eva because I actually saw Eva in London when she was in Miss Saigon in that first production. Back then, I remember thinking this is a superstar, and then getting to know her, and just see her work. I think the thing about Eva is, it is clear to anybody who has ever heard this woman sing or seen her act, that she is unbelievably talented.

The thing I am loving more and more every day getting to know her, is she has such a open, light, welcoming presence. There's no ego. It is just the easiest thing to come to work and work with her. Yes, incredibly inspiring because also, I think her confidence and just the way she shows up, it's just really inspiring and lovely.

Alison Stewart: Her confidence. Where do you think your confidence comes from?

Eva Noblezada: Insecurity.

Orville Peck: Yes. Period.

Eva Noblezada: It's all about you can't have light without dark. I'm not saying I'm not insecure, but I think that the older I get and the more that the universe or God gives me opportunities to show up in my life. Whether you call those challenges or opportunities, it makes me want to be more present in ways where maybe in the past, I struggled with showing up. Being insecure, I think now I'm like, "You know what? Who cares? Who cares? I know what I want. I know who I am. I know what I love to do. That's what I'm grateful to be able to come to work and work with people like Orville, and this amazing company."

I could be doing a job where I'm unhappy and I'm not. I'm doing a job where I-- I love what I do, and it tires me out and it. I'm so grateful for that because I'm doing something that fulfills me and fulfills my spirit. That's where it comes from.

Alison Stewart: It's so interesting, talking about Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club with my guests; Orville Peck and Eva Noblezada is. It's in the round. It's a super in the round. The stage goes up. You guys are in and out of the audience. Orville, tell me what that's like for you as a newcomer to Broadway, to be in this unique stage.

Orville Peck: Yes, no, it is quite the challenge, but it's quite a beautiful challenge, I think. as performers typically in a very traditional stage where there's the one side is us and the other side is the audience. You can find ways to cheat your energy, if that makes sense. There's no doing that in this show, especially it being a musical. People are looking at you literally 360 degrees. You have to be shooting that energy out in all directions at all times. You can't really hide or cheat anything.

That's been a beautiful challenge, but I think it speaks to kind of that what Eva was saying a little bit about showing up and being present every night. I mean, it forces you to just immerse yourself and lose yourself in the story because you can't be performative. It doesn't work. You have to just be present and be locked into the story you're telling because it'll show if you're not.

Alison Stewart: We first see you in the audience.

Eva Noblezada: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Tell us about starting the show in the audience.

Eva Noblezada: I love it. I love just messing with people because I have to walk over everybody.

Alison Stewart: You do.

Eva Noblezada: I have to. I say, "I'm going this way."

Orville Peck: It's very Sally.

Eva Noblezada: It's very Sally. My first show ever, someone stood up too fast and spilled their drink. I said something. I don't even know if I could say it on the air. They're shaking their head. They know. They know. They're like, "It's the Kit Kat Club." It's fun because I think the breaking of the fourth wall with our characters and the audience, I think it gives such a level of realism that it puts them in a position of like, "Oh, my God. We're in a club and like it's right in her face." Then, boom, you're hit with the storyline.

I think the audience. That's one of the coolest impacts of the show, is being like, "Ha, ha, ha. It's all fun and games until it's not, so buckle your seatbelts," which I think is really nice.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club with Orville Peck and Eva Noblezada. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All of It.

You're listening to All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking with Orval Peck and Eva Noblezada, who star in Broadway's Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. Orville plays the Emcee. Eva plays Sally Bowles. They took over the roles just last week. Let's talk about The Emcee. He's almost mechanical in the beginning, a little bit like a toy soldier type doll. What inspired the physicality?

Orville Peck: I think for me, The Emcee journey is a tricky one because without giving away too much about the show, because I think everyone should come and experience it, and experience the surprises of it. Where The Emcee comes into play in the start is to obviously welcome, very famously Vilkom in, welcome everyone into the show and make everyone feel at ease and playful, and that physicality for me is very much about a chaotic physicality and more like loose and open to bring that freedom.

Then by the end of the show, it's a very different story. Physicality in general for the show plays a big part for me. I spend a lot of time thinking about, as the show progresses, I change that a lot so that by the end, it feels very much like a different person than you see at the beginning.

Alison Stewart: If you had to describe where Sally Bowles is in her life when we meet her, how would you describe where she is? What's going on with her?

Eva Noblezada: I would say glamorous rock bottom. I would say-- I mean, I love her confidence in whatever, wherever she is, because if you look closely, you can see that she's a hot mess. She's living paycheck to paycheck, probably spending it on gin and glitter, and probably just wanting to-- I mean, but also in that time, it's not like women were exactly treated as equally as men were. She's doing the best she can, but also enjoying the fact that she is the star of that club, and she is eating that up. It's the house of bowls, for God's sake. Yes, I think that she is glamorous rock bottom would be my answer for you.

Alison Stewart: This is the part of the conversation where I'm going to veer into country music. Obviously, Ovo's a country singer, but you starred in a movie. This is the last time you were on the show. In that movie, you did.

Eva Noblezada: Yellow Rose.

Alison Stewart: There you go.

Eva Noblezada: I was a country singer in Yellow Rose, baby. I was.

Alison Stewart: Did you know this?

Orville Peck: I did not. I need to see this. What are we talking about here?

Eva Noblezada: One day, I'll show up with my guitar, and I'll play you a song.

Orville Peck: Girl.

Alison Stewart: She played a country singer.

Orville Peck: Are you kidding?

Eva Noblezada: Yes, from Austin, Texas.

Orville Peck: Wait, not our kismet continuum.

Eva Noblezada: Yes, we're literally connected. I also wear a mask.

Alison Stewart: You didn't discuss that?

Eva Noblezada: No, I'm just kidding.

Orville Peck: Coming for my gig, girl.

Eva Noblezada: Oh, my God, never.

Alison Stewart: Was that hard for you to go from being a show about you, about your character, to being playing a different character?

Orville Peck: It wasn't. I mean, I think the funny distinction for me is that, like my regular show, it's not really a character for me. It's very much me. All my songs are very, very deeply personal. I think the different challenge there is that in my regular show, I have to carry the whole thing for two hours, which is tiring. There's a weight off because I just go up and I'm just myself. I get to share my stories and feel like if I screw something up, I can laugh at it. I'm in full control because the pressure's off because I'm just myself.

This, of course, is a different thing. I'm playing a character, and there's a lot of preparation that goes into that, but I don't know, I didn't find it a challenge. I was just so excited to do it. I think the challenging parts have been just the actual upkeep and preparation. As far as mentally or anything, I was really excited to just come and do it.

Alison Stewart: We've already gotten a call from a listener who wants to know why you wear the mask and why you didn't wear it in Cabaret.

Orville Peck: Well, I wear the mask because when I knew I wanted to be a country singer, I wanted to bring a theatricality and an artistic expression to the genre, which I felt like had been missing for many, many years. I wanted to just take my spin on the Lone Ranger, if you will. That's why I wear it. I didn't wear it in Cabaret because it's not about me. I wanted to come and play this part with integrity, and it's a very important show, and I'm just not the type of person that would want to make it the Orville Peck Show.

Alison Stewart: You played an up and coming country singer in Yellow Rose. Were you a fan of country music?

Eva Noblezada: I was a fan of Carrie Underwood. As in, I love Carrie Underwood, her Some Hearts album, I know back to front. That was a great introduction to country music for me. Willie Nelson and John Van Zandt-- Oh, my God.

Orville Peck: Townes Van Zandt.

Eva Noblezada: Van Zandt.Sorry. Thank you. Loretta Lynn, and of course, Dolly. I love-- I knew Dolly before that, but it was such a great introduction to that. I got to work with Dale Watson, who I love and adore, and that was really cool that there was a moment where our director, Diane Paragas, wanted us to write a song together. I remember pulling her sign being like, "I know three chords in the guitar. Don't make me do this." [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: It was three chords in the truth, right?

Eva Noblezada: Three chords of the truth. I'm going to get that tattooed.

Orville Peck: I can't wait to see this film. I'm dying.

Eva Noblezada: Oh, my God. I'm scared. It's a great film, and it's a very deep, really deep and just personal part of my life, but just a beautiful movie about a girl with the dream. She's also undocumented and so living in Austin, Texas, and she's 17, so. It's a really poignant movie.

Alison Stewart: It's a really good movie, too.

Orville Peck: I can't wait.

Eva Noblezada: Thank you. It's very nice of you.

Alison Stewart: I did want to ask you, though, you have some relatability to rock and roll? Your fiancé?

Eva Noblezada: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Reeve Carney.

Eva Noblezada: Reeve Carney.

Alison Stewart: Congratulations.

Eva Noblezada: Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: He's like a real rock star. That's what he's about.

Eva Noblezada: Yes, ma'am.

Alison Stewart: What did working with him and living with him help you understand about someone like Orville Peck?

Eva Noblezada: Ooh. Well, Reeves started performing in blues clubs when he was about 13 years old, and he's been playing guitar longer than I've been in love. He is a genius when it comes to music. He has such a impressive catalog of artists and musicians that he admires, and that goes into how inspired he is to do music. Even his own album that I was listening to on the way, Youth is Wasted. You can stream it wherever music is streaming. Reeve Carney.

I would say, the work ethic of a musician, especially one that's on the road a lot, because he toured with Johnny Lang and also did his own tour. He's been to every single state except for Alaska.

Orville Peck: Me too.

Eva Noblezada: Oh, my God.

Orville Peck: Wait. Reeve and I have to go do a show in Alaska. That's the only one I have left as well.

Eva Noblezada: Yes, you have to. Wait, can I come?

Orville Peck: Yes. Duh.

Eva Noblezada: I just think the work ethic of that and also watching him write music is-- I mean, he has his dictionary. His thesaurus is stacked up on our piano. It's really amazing because I feel like our worlds are so similar, yet so different. He's also a theater person as well. I mean, he's a renowned Broadway actor. I just think that the work ethicness of it all is so impressive to me because it's not something that I would feel like I would do, go home and immediately pick up my guitar.

I mean, I would sound like Kaka playing guitar, but he sounds like he's one of the greats. It's amazing. I think, I can't wait to see you perform as Orville Peck. I want us come see yours.

Orville Peck: Sometime soon.

Alison Stewart: That's interesting for you, though, the difference in the work ethic. How is it different for Broadway versus when you're on tour?

Orville Peck: There's hard and easy things about both. I think then the nice thing is that I know where I am at all times here and I wake up in the same city every day, which is a treat. It's definitely more physically demanding. The show, of course, and it's like a marathon. I feel like I've never been as fit as I am right now. Then I think the difference with touring is like I said before, it's me going up and telling my stories. There's just a freeness that I think takes a lot of pressure off in a lot of ways.

Alison Stewart: When we're talking about Cabaret, it's hard not to think about the current moment. About there are themes of homophobia, of antisemitism, fascism. What is really resonating with the story of Cabaret for you, Eva, right now?

Eva Noblezada: Well, we get to go to work in a beautiful building full of queer people who are beautiful people, who I feel like how can you-- I just don't understand. I don't understand waking up and choosing to want to have somebody not be themselves. It's like queer people are the most expansive. They shed light in the dimmest parts of the corners because of who they are. It's like if someone, AKA government, wants to take rights away from people like that, it's like, well, who do you think is next?

It's really eye opening and it's really horrible because it's like, don't you see this community, don't you see the family aspect and how powerful the connective tissue is within the queer community, and how it's always supportive of each other? It's encouraging and it's looking out for each other. I just feel like that's been one of the most beautiful things. Just as Eva walking into the building and being with these people who are just a million percent themselves despite all the other caca out there.

Alison Stewart: What are you thinking about in terms of the current moment and the show?

Orville Peck: I mean, I think it is-- I think it's really astonishing that this show was written, what, almost 60 years ago, and it's still relevant. I think it is-- We don't even have to try and make it relevant. There are lines in the show that every night hit differently just poignantly. I think it's really-- it should serve as a warning or hopefully something that can help educate people. Sadly, I think at the moment, it's more serving as a mirror of just what time we're in.

I think it's definitely not lost on any of us. We know how impactful it is, and you see the reactions in the audience every night. I mean, people are sobbing in the audience. I'm sure we're all doing a great performance, and that might be part of it, but I think it's also because everyone can feel that this is the reality that we're slipping into, and it's very heavy.

Alison Stewart: How do you unwind after such an intense show? How do you take care of yourself?

Eva Noblezada: That's hard. The taking care is the hardest part because I think we give everything out there. Anything we have in our tank is dedicated to doing the show. At least that's how I feel. I like to go home, and I like to color, or I love to do a Pilates. I know that's really weird, but I like to just exhaust my body. I love to eat food and maybe have a glass or three of wine. Just kidding. Just a glass. I never have more than one. I'm a liar. Just cuddle with my dog and my fiancé, and watch something that is so not serious, like The Bachelor. It's just a reminder of just my humanity. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: How do you get in touch with your humanity, Orville?

Orville Peck: Yes, a lot of mindless TV, reality TV, for sure. Definitely can handle. Everyone's talking about White Lotus and Severance. I'm like, "Y'all, I cannot-- You don't know what I'm doing at work. I can't be watching Severance. I'm sorry. I'm sure it's fabulous, but yes." I'm watching nonsense, but that, for sure. I actually like to draw and paint as well. Yes, just find ways to be quiet and not use my voice because it's also very tiring. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: My guests have been Orville Peck and Eva Noblezada. You can see them in Broadway's Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club. Thanks for spending some time with us. We really appreciate it.

Eva Noblezada: Thank you for having us. It was lovely.