Title: Nini Nguyen's New Vietnamese Cookbook (Food For Thought) [music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for sharing part of your day with me. Vietnamese food, like many other cuisines, is a product of geography, culture, and global history. For centuries, China controlled Vietnam, bringing their spices and marinades to Vietnamese cuisine. Then Vietnam became a French colony, and the French techniques became involved in dishes like pho.

Chef Nini Nguyen is a product of this cultural melting pot with another layer on top. She is a descendant of Vietnamese immigrants in New Orleans, a rich community of fishermen and shrimpers. The community has embraced Cajun-Creole flavors, creating bolder versions of traditional Vietnamese cuisine. Nini captures these global influences in her cookbook, Dac Biet: An Extra-Special Vietnamese Cookbook. Dac Biet means special.

Nini became a fan favorite on her two seasons on Top Chef. Tomorrow night, she'll be speaking and signing books at Yu and Me Books, and she has two more events in the city this week. You can find all that info on our website. Amidst that very busy week, we're glad that Chef Nini Nguyen found some time to stop by the studio for our installment of Food for Thought. Welcome, Nini.

Nini Nguyen: Hi. Thank you for having me. It's so exciting.

Alison Stewart: Good. I'm so glad you're here. Hey, listeners, since Nini is an accomplished cooking instructor, we thought we'd open the phones to you. What questions do you have about mastering Vietnamese cuisine? Do you have a recipe you've always wanted to try? Maybe you really wanted some tips on how to make great bánh mì or really nail your jasmine rice. Chef Nini Nguyen is here to take your calls. 212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC. You can call or text to that number. Also, our social media is available, @allofitwnyc. Where does the title of this cookbook come from?

Nini Nguyen: When thinking about the title of this book, I really wanted to find a word or a name that really captures the essence of, I feel like me. Not saying that I'm special, but to be dac biet is to elevate or make more distinguished. It could be with everything. In Vietnamese-American slang, it's like you're being extra, you're being dac biet. From the way I dress to the way I cook to just my personality, I feel like I am dac biet.

I think this was the only word that was fitting because I wanted every dish to be-- even though it could be very ordinary like a normal Vietnamese mom would cook, I wanted something like an element to make it dac biet, a little more special.

Alison Stewart: It's cool. In each recipe, there's a little dac biet, you can a little dac biet it?

Nini Nguyen: Yes. I have little burl herbs, and it's like, make it duck be it, and it's switching a spice or maybe cooking it a different way or using a different cut of meat because you don't always have to have luxury ingredients to make something special. Sometimes it's just a little more time and thought.

Alison Stewart: In the beginning of the book, you go into your history a little bit. You're from a Vietnamese family, a community in New Orleans. Why did so many Vietnamese people choose New Orleans as their new home?

Nini Nguyen: For me, I think it's because it reminded them of home. You come to a different country and-- my dad's family was in Minnesota, and somehow before the Internet happened, his family figured out how to come to New Orleans. I think it's because Vietnamese people just stayed connected. Let's take it back. When I went to Vietnam, I understood--

Alison Stewart: You were 28.

Nini Nguyen: I was 28.

Alison Stewart: You were 28 before you went.

Nini Nguyen: I never left the country. My mom was pissed. I decided to book a ticket, went to Vietnam for five weeks by myself, never having left the country. When I stepped foot in Hanoi, I understood why my family came to New Orleans. They have a French Quarter there, and I could have thought that I was in the middle of the French Quarter in New Orleans because it was hot, it was humid, and architecture looked the same.

Some of the smells and the noises were the same.

Alison Stewart: Oh, interesting.

Nini Nguyen: I think that there was something very comforting being in a new country, being in New Orleans, because there were so many similar things and people spoke French. My paternal grandmother also speaks French. There were just so many different connections and similarities.

Alison Stewart: When you think about the French influence as well as the Chinese influence, how do we see that in Vietnamese cooking?

Nini Nguyen: I think celebratory things. When I think of a Vietnamese wedding, you have whole roasted pig, whole roasted ducks, and that's really the Chinese char siu, their style of cooking, but it was something that's luxurious. You have whole pigs, and it's the gift you give to the bride's family for the celebration, but on the other hand, you also have champagne and cognac.

It's like the two things that we use to really celebrate special events are from other cultures, and there's just so much sprinkled through our cuisine. My favorite game to play with other Chinese chefs is, "What do you call this?" We would say, "We call this this in Vietnamese," and it would be so similar, even in language. We might tweak a few ingredients, but the techniques are all very similar.

Alison Stewart: Our phone lines are lighting up. Let's talk to Taylor from Brooklyn. Hi, Taylor. You're on with Nini Nguyen.

Taylor: Hi, Nini. It's so nice to talk to you.

Nini Nguyen: Hi.

Taylor: My question is, what is a Vietnamese dish that you could find that's home-cooked that would never appear on a restaurant's menu?

Alison Stewart: Good question.

Nini Nguyen: That is a really good question. I think something that's thinking in my brain is someone who cooked this and posted it this morning, Gà kho gừng. It's ginger braised chicken with fish sauce. It's something that's really homey. It's the thing that my mom makes that when I lived here in New York, when I would come home to New Orleans, I would be like, "Can you make that dish?" She would make it.

She's since perfected it. The recipe that she makes is in the book, but it's cooked with ginger. It takes about 30 minutes to make, and it's a flavor bomb, and very quick. Normally, we used to cook it with chicken wings that were broken down, but we use chicken thighs because that's the dac biet way. I would start there.

Alison Stewart: It's on page 191 of your new book, by the way. Taylor, why did you want to know that?

Taylor: I wanted to know because I'm Vietnamese American. I also have family in Minnesota and New Orleans.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wow.

Taylor: I've never been to Vietnam, so I've been trying to connect with my own culture through the food. That's the Vietnamese language that I'm learning how to speak, so I'm always curious about things that I haven't tried yet.

Nini Nguyen: Oh, my God. You're like me.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling in, Taylor. We do appreciate it.

Nini Nguyen: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Tony from Bergenfield, New Jersey, has a question. Hi, Tony. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Tony: Hi. Welcome back, Allison. It's great to hear your voice.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Tony: My question is, what are the top five ingredients I need to have in my kitchen to prepare Vietnamese food? The things that are in the spice cabinet, not the stuff in the fridge. I can go buy the vegetables and the meat, but the stuff that you always need that you don't have. Also, I live right outside of New York City. If you have a specific place you can recommend to buy provisions for Vietnamese cuisine, I would appreciate knowing that as well.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for the question, Tony.

Nini Nguyen: All right. If I'm thinking pantry, I'm thinking things that I keep in my cupboard and also freezer because a lot of things about Vietnamese food is we like fresh herbs and lettuce, but you definitely need fish sauce. That's number one. That's basically our salt. We put it in everything. I know it sounds weird to put fish sauce with chicken. Trust me, it is delicious. I would say Thai chilies. You could buy fresh and keep them whole in the freezer. That's my pantry staple.

Jasmine rice. Nothing beats jasmine rice with Vietnamese food. That's three. Let's see. I guess I like soy sauce, but we call it seasoning sauce, and we have Maggi or-- I really liked Golden Mountain seasoning sauce. I say it like the names in my books so that y'all know which one I'm talking about because there are so many. A soy sauce is always good. We don't use it all the time, but it's important. Honestly, I think that's all you really need. There are so many different things. I'm trying to think.

Alison Stewart: Where would be a good place to get them in the city?

Nini Nguyen: If you're in the city, there's a place called Tan Hung on Bowery and Grand, and that's a really good Vietnamese grocery store, but Hong Kong Market also has it. A lot of the Asian grocery stores will carry most of the things. Oh, I would say Bí Ngòi, which is a vermicelli-pressed noodle that takes two minutes to cook. All you need to do is have boiling water, and that's a great-- If you need a fast something, that's also really good. Tan Hung or Hong Kong Market. If you're in New Jersey, there's a really big-- It's a Korean-Japanese store. It's Mitsuwa. That one's really-- I spend the day there.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for the advice. We're speaking with Nini Nguyen, author of the new cookbook Dac Biet: An Extra-Special Vietnamese Cookbook. Tomorrow, she'll be signing books at U & Me Books. Thursday, she'll be at Big Night, and Friday, she'll be at the Union Square Market. You can find all the information on our website. We're also taking your calls. What questions do you have about Vietnamese cooking? Might happen for Nini, maybe she's got the answer.

She's a cooking instructor. She really knows how to help you nail that broth that you've been talking about. The perfect spring roll. Give us a call. 212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC. You can call in and ask your question on the air. You can text to us as well. It seemed to me that your grandmothers were really inspirational to you. Your love of shopping comes from your grandma. What food lessons did you learn from them?

Nini Nguyen: There are so many. I think my grandmother, my mom's mom is the pickiest grocery store shopper. I don't know why they let her go to-- They'll let her go behind the meat counter at our local grocery store, and I'm like, "Grandma, you can't do that." Then they'll just say, "Just let her do whatever she wants." She knows the days that the meat gets delivered. She's just very particular, and she has really instilled quality with me lke making sure we pick the nicest greens.

My job was always to pick the greens that we were going to eat for dinner, and she's like, "You don't want the bugs' leftovers so if there's holes, we don't eat that, or if it's yellow." She taught me tips on how to make it fresh. Ice water perks everything up. That's every chef's trick is ice water to make anything refreshed and crispy and just always using as fresh and high-quality ingredients.

Alison Stewart: You dedicate the book to your brother, who died in his 20s of stomach cancer. You call him your sous-chef. How did the two of you share a love of cooking?

Nini Nguyen: I think growing up, watching Food Network. We watched Iron Chef, I feel like most kids, and food was just such a big part of our family. We would cook and experiment and make the weirdest things. My poor parents, they had to eat some weird, gross stuff. Trust me, I might be a chef now, but I made some nasty things before I made really good things. He was also a chef.

I think in a way, he followed my footsteps because I finished college and I was like, "I'm going to do what I want to do, and I'm going to be a chef." Then it almost gave him the permission to do the same. He was cooking in New Orleans, I was cooking in New York. I think it was my dad's dream for us to open a restaurant together. We didn't get to do it, but he has always been my biggest cheerleader. I miss him.

Alison Stewart: Speaking of when you used to work in New York, you worked at Eleven Madison Park. Excuse me. How did your time there help shape you as a chef?

Nini Nguyen: It was tough, but rightfully so. They are Three Michelin Stars, not for any reason. It really helped me become the chef that I am because the way that they work, it was such high standards, but also accountability and being able to run a team in a way that made people want to follow. Anybody can run a restaurant, but to become a leader that people will follow continuously was something that I really learned there.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Nini Nguyen. Her book is an extra special Vietnamese cookbook. Dac Biet is the name of it. After the break, we'll answer more of your questions and we'll get into some recipes. That's next.

[music]

Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Nini Nguyen. The name of her cookbook is Dac Biet: An Extra-Special Vietnamese Cookbook. We have a call for you. Adam is calling from Washington Heights. Hi, Adam.

Adam: Hey, Allison.

Alison Stewart: Hey.

Adam: Hi, Nini.

Nini Nguyen: Hi.

Adam: Hi. Here's my question. I love to cook and I love Vietnamese food, but I've never cooked any of it. Your book sounds phenomenal. I'm eating up this whole segment. How should I start? I have some ingredients in my house. I love Vietnamese fish sauce. I have jasmine rice. What should I do? Where should I begin? What steps should I take to just start learning some basic techniques, getting some essential ingredients and equipment, and how should I learn?

Alison Stewart: First of all, I love his enthusiasm.

Nini Nguyen: I know.

Alison Stewart: Love his enthusiasm. Go for it.

Nini Nguyen: I think you're already halfway there. I would say maybe start with sauces, because the chapter in sauces that I have, you can put it on everything, but really, you could get most of the things-- If you have jasmine rice and you have fish sauce, you could go to any American grocery store and buy things to make Vietnamese food. I would say maybe get the book, my shameless plug. I would start in sauces or even just in the braised meats. That chicken dish that I was just talking about with ginger, that is the perfect intro. Then you'll really get what the basis of Vietnamese food is because that one recipe teaches you a really hardcore technique, which is char, which is to braise.

Alison Stewart: Good luck, Adam. I want to dive into one of these layered dishes because you have in here southeastern Asian jambalaya.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How did the Vietnamese and the Creole flavors combine for this dish?

Nini Nguyen: This is one of the few dishes that doesn't have a Vietnamese name because it doesn't exist. It was just something that inspired me. We have rice in common in Louisiana and in Vietnamese food, and I wanted to be playful with this. Instead of having the celery in Trinity, I switched it for lemongrass. It just has a lot of different aromatics from Vietnamese cuisine, but it also has Cajun seasoning or Creole seasoning, which is in the jambalaya.

It's cooked the same way a jambalaya would be cooked, but there's Thai basil, there's lime leaves that's been shredded and lemongrass. Then you have all of these very almost citrusy, bright notes to something hearty and warm as a jambalaya.

Alison Stewart: You want to try, perhaps rice salad with clams. You had this recipe in Vietnam for the first time. What goes into making that dish?

Nini Nguyen: That one is so fun. It's clams that you can get any kind of clam that you want. They have some at the Vietnamese grocery store that's from Vietnam, but you could get whatever clams you want. Leftover rice. This is a great way to use your leftover rice if you ordered takeout or something, and then a bunch of different greens. This one has this taro root stem or elephant ear stem, which is called bac ha, but you could use lettuce.

That one's a harder ingredient to find, but if you can find it, it's the coolest thing. Lettuce also works, and it's just two different sauces, and it's all tossed together with peanuts and fried shallot, and it's just a textural adventure.

Alison Stewart: You earlier said jasmine rice. You got to have jasmine rice. What is the key to jasmine rice?

Nini Nguyen: The key to jasmine rice is steam. I think a lot of times people who-- if you cook it on the stove, they're like, "Oh, it's not done." Sometimes it's almost done, and all you have to do is just don't touch it. I walk you through how to cook things on the stove because I live by myself and I don't always want to cook a whole pot of rice from the rice cooker. Just being able to see if your rice is too wet or too dry right when you're done cooking it and then just letting it steam. That's really it, time.

Alison Stewart: A texter wanted to know, what brand of fish sauce do you recommend?

Nini Nguyen: There's two different kinds that I like. I like Mega Chef. The blue bottle. That's the Vietnamese recipe. I use that for most of my cooking because it's mild, delicate, and it just is so delicious. Then I like Red Boat Fish Sauce, which is a more premium fish sauce. I use that in my raw preparations. If I'm making a dressing or if I'm just eating it with chilies, that's the fish sauce to go with.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned that you should start with a traditional sauce to start with, and you have a traditional dipping sauce. First of all, what goes into the traditional dipping sauce? Let's start there.

Nini Nguyen: It's five ingredients. It's sugar, garlic, chilies, fish sauce, and lime juice. This is my dad's mom's version, the more southern version because they use a lot of limes. It's the easiest sauce to make everything taste good. People always say, "I want to drink this sauce." It's a lot of sodium, but you can, if you want.

Alison Stewart: If you want something a little extra, so to speak, you can make the lemongrass chili oil.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How does that work?

Alison Stewart: Ớt sa tế is a combination of a lot of different layers, from fried shallots to fried garlic to chilies to lemongrass. It's a really delicious condiment. I feel like we are in our chili oil era, and this is the Vietnamese chili oil that reigns supreme.

Alison Stewart: I want you to make the argument that certain noodles are better than other noodles.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: You have a very, very distinct argument. Go for it. I'm not even going to get into it. [laughs]

Nini Nguyen: I talked to my editor, and I was like, "I don't know if I want to put pho in the recipe." That's the most common Vietnamese dish. It is your gateway drug to Vietnamese cuisine. I didn't want to put it in because everyone has a pho recipe in their book. I think that pho, though it's my healing soup, there are so many other different noodle dishes that are so delicious and needs a time to shine. I still put it in, so don't worry, guys.

I have three different versions of pho and I did it right. Then I also included, and I really encourage you guys to try, Bún bò Huế or bún mọc, which is a pork meatball soup that's really delicate. I like wax poetic about pork broth because I think it's something that's so underrated that no one knows, and it's so delicious.

Alison Stewart: Bánh mì. There's been such a rush of bánh mì in the United States. If you go to Chelsea Market, there's a great place on the lower fathom in the corner. They make a great bánh mì, but you suggest that we should be able to make this at home. Make the bread at home.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: First of all, is it tough to make the bread for bánh mì at home?

Nini Nguyen: It's not.

Alison Stewart: Really?

Nini Nguyen: It's actually really easy. I started in pastry, but I am not a bread baker. I don't have the patience for bread, but this one is really, really simple. Especially if you're in a place where you can't find bánh mì bread, it's not that hard to make at home. The secret ingredient is lime juice.

Alison Stewart: Lime juice?

Nini Nguyen: Yes. The citric acid helps the gluten develop, so then you don't have to sit and build so much. The acid helps the gluten develop and it gives it that fluffy, light texture. Then the moisture of the dough really gives it the crust.

Alison Stewart: You may have convinced me. I have it marked in my book. The book is called Dac Biet: An Extra-Special Vietnamese Cookbook. It's by Nini Nguyen. Let's take another call. Nancy from Asbury Park, New Jersey. Hi, Nancy.

Nini Nguyen: Hi.

Nancy: Hello, Allison. Hello, Chef. First I want to say, Allison, I love your show. I think it's one of the best shows on air anywhere.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Nancy: Welcome back. Chef, I think it's Mini or Nini, I love Vietnamese food. It is the most elegant and sophisticated food, I think, that I've ever tasted. I'm a pretty good cook but have never attempted Vietnamese cooking because I think it's so sophisticated that I just don't see how a normal good cook could master it. Your thoughts on that, and also, if you have a moment, name some of your favorite Vietnamese restaurants in the New York City area, including New Jersey, if you know any.

Alison Stewart: That's good.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Thanks, Nancy.

Nini Nguyen: I love this question because I think even with my friends, they're like, "Oh, I'll buy your book, but I don't know if I'll cook from it because I'm so scared." If you could throw things in a bowl, you can make Vietnamese food. I have recipes where you can just buy a rotisserie chicken and make the most delicious cabbage salad. If you can just shred cabbage and throw things in a bowl, you can make this cabbage salad and it's so good.

I think that the most scary part of Vietnamese cooking is not quite the technique, because I think a lot of people can grasp it. It's the ingredients. Luckily, we measured everything, so then as long as you follow the recipe, it should work, because it's been heavily tested. Then for my favorite restaurants, I used to live in the East Village in New York, and Sao Mai is a neighborhood spot that I go to all the time. I just heard all my friends who've gone there recently is like, they've kicked it up a notch.

There are so many different restaurants. There's Madame Vo, there's Di An Di. There's another place called Mam, I think. It's in the Lower East Side. They have plastic chairs, and it really feels like Vietnam. It's a fermented shrimp paste with tofu. That one might be more adventurous for the more adventurous folks, but Sao Mai, Madame Vo, and Di An Di are the really delicious ones.

Alison Stewart: You've got recipes in here for spring rolls, coconut crispy rice crepes, but I do want to talk about desserts. You have a three-color dessert that you eat and drink at the same time. There's green in there. What goes into that dessert?

Nini Nguyen: Chè ba màu, or the three-color dessert, is a very, very popular Vietnamese dessert. It comes in a cup and it has crushed ice, but the layers are like pandan jello. It's made with agar. It's the jello consistency. We have mung bean paste, which is yellow, and then we have red bean paste, which is a red-brown. Those are the three colors, but then it gets topped with coconut milk. I know beans in dessert sounds really, really weird, but this is very typical. If you've ever had red bean paste in Japanese desserts, this is the same vibe, except everything gets mixed together and it's ice.

I like to describe it as eating a cold cereal. There's the milk, there's the different textures, and you enjoy it all in your mouth. Every bite is different.

Alison Stewart: You have one New Orleans-inspired dessert or breakfast, beignet, but it has a Vietnamese flair.

Nini Nguyen: Yes. There's two versions of beignets. Of course, being from New Orleans, I had to include the classic. I also think that I make a mean beignet, but Bánh Tiêu is the Vietnamese counterpart. It's crusted with sesame seeds, and when you fry them, they puff up into a pillow, and they're already sweetened. The dough's sweet, and so you don't need to dust it with powdered sugar, though I always do.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is Dac Biet: An Extra-Special Vietnamese Cookbook. It's by Nini Nguyen. By the way, you can see the spelling. Somebody called in, "Can you tell us the spelling?" It's on our website. You can definitely see the book. You can definitely get Nini Nguyen's spelling of her name. By the way, she will be signing books tomorrow at U $ Me. Thursday night, she'll be at Big Night, and Friday you will be at the Union Square cafe.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Excuse me. Green Market. That's exciting.

Nini Nguyen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Nini, thank you for coming in.

Nini Nguyen: Thank you so much. This was fun.

[00:27:23] [END OF AUDIO]

 

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