[music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart, who's on medical leave. We're going to end today's show with some new music, 31-year-old London-based Soul, Jazz, R&B singer Jordan Rakei has a new album coming out next month titled The Loop. Now, some of you might remember his well-received 2019 album Origin. It explored the impacts of technology on humanity, and it featured songs like Say Something, Speak and Mind's Eye. Let's take a quick listen to Mind's Eye. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Jordan Rakei: Mind's Eye]

Kousha Navidar: Since then Jordan's performed on NPR's Tiny Desk in 2020. In 2021, he released his fourth studio album. It was called What We Call Life, and in a few weeks on Friday, May 10th, his fifth studio album The Loop is coming out. Jordan's a vocalist, a multi-instrumentalist, a songwriter, and a record producer, and he's right here with us to talk about his new album. Hey, Jordan, welcome to All Of It.

Jordan Rakei: Hey, how's it going?

Kousha Navidar: Good. Glad to have you here. Tell us-- [crosstalk]

Jordan Rakei: Thanks for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Tell us about the title a little bit. Where did The Loop come from?

Jordan Rakei: The Loop, it sort of signifies the story for me of parenthood. The whole album was a story about my reflection on my parents and my reflection of becoming a new father, and also the abstract concept of fathering the inner child, and it's like the cycle of life. We're rolling through this life and my child might have a child, that child might have a child, and we're just on this journey and surrendering to that moment. The Loop is symbolizing the cycle of life in the way and surrendering to that parenthood.

Kousha Navidar: Part of your inspiration for the album was when your son was born. Was that the impetus that started the album or was that when the title itself took shape? Tell also about that.

Jordan Rakei: That was definitely the impetus. Yes. When he was born, I took four months off and I was around. Then when I started writing the very first demo and starting the whole process, I always liked to begin the whole album process with a concept. Obviously at a time like that, when he had such a huge impact on me, it just naturally poured into the songwriting and the musical choices, so it was a natural journey to take. After writing the fifth, sixth, seventh song, it became clear that the whole album was going to be about me becoming a father and me learning about all elements of parenthood.

Kousha Navidar: It's funny because I heard in an interview you did with Danny Painter who's a radio host in South Africa, you said that you like to go into a new album with a challenge in mind. Did you have a challenge in mind when you started The Loop? Was it 'Becoming a father' and this is how it will sound in music? Tell us about that.

Jordan Rakei: Yes. I set myself a couple of rules, actually. One of the rules was try to be as most vulnerable and honest as possible in the storytelling side of it with the lyrics and my message I was trying to get across. Then the other rule I set myself was, I really wanted to embrace acoustic instruments again, in big rooms full of musicians playing full takes, embracing live energy again, because I feel like music these days, and definitely even in the past with me, can become very computerized.

I wanted to humanize music for me. I just got in a room full of lots of musicians and we played these songs as a big collective and it was so much fun. Even making those mistakes and seeing the humanity in that recording process.

Kousha Navidar: I love that idea of bringing, preserving humanity in the recording process. Was there something new that you wanted to try either with your vocals or the instrumentation to get at that sense?

Jordan Rakei: Yes, there was. It was on a technical thing, recording a lot of tracks to no clicks and not being regimented and the computer base driving the time, ebbing and flowing with the tempo of the drummer and percussionist, for example. Another thing was replacing synthesizers, which I've used a lot in previous music, with natural orchestras, big horn sections. I was just trying to basically create the most acoustic sound I could, so they were two new challenges I tried to face.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. Let's listen to a song from the album. If you're just joining us, this is All Of It. We're talking to vocalist and multi-instrumentalist and songwriter, producer Jordan Rakei. His new album, The Loop, releases Friday May 10th, so in a few weeks. We're doing a listening party and hearing some of that music. Let's listen to a song. The track is titled Learning and it features what KCRW called a heart-tugging orchestral section, haunting choral backup. Let's take a listen.

[MUSIC - Jordan Rakei: Learning]

Kousha Navidar: We're talking to Jordan Rakei, the multi-instrumentalist and vocalist. His new album The Loop releases on Friday, May 10th. That was the song Learning from the album. Jordan, you talked before about how the impetus of this album was from the birth of your son. First of all, just congratulations. I don't know if I mentioned that before, but just congrats on that.

Jordan Rakei: [chuckles] Thank you.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, absolutely. I'm wondering how has becoming a father informed your music?

Jordan Rakei: That's a good question. It's done it in a few ways. It's made me really be more content and proud of my own expression because when you're a musician, and I have lots of musician friends that go through this, you spend a lot of your career trying to impress your peers or your management or your label or even your friends or whatever. Having a son really calibrated my mindset being, not that I even have to impress my son, but there is only one really person that I really care and trying to be myself to, if you know what I mean. Obviously, other than my wife.

It's like being more true and honest was a big thing, so the whole writing process was a huge experience for me to tap into that subconscious way of thinking. Another thing, even on a logistical level, obviously having a son is tricky because I'm trying to be present as a father, but at the same time I'm trying to be really efficient as a songwriter and producer. It's like I was learning how to allocate times in between naps to write my chorus [unintelligible 00:08:26] [chuckles].

I was juggling the childcare mixed with a songwriter, which is really fun. At the same time it was challenging, but it made me really efficient in the songwriting process, if you know what I mean. There's lots of challenges, but lots of growth for sure as a songwriter.

Kousha Navidar: I'm sure that every parent right now that has had a job while they were also doing childcare, or just doing childcare, is probably nodding their heads right now with you being like, "Yes, you've got to [chuckles] learn how to juggle, for sure." What did you learn from that process? How did you approach it? What did you find made you efficient as a songwriter and present as a parent?

Jordan Rakei: That's a good question, and it's something I'm still trying to push myself to do today. I think the main things that were really helpful as a musician was setting boundaries of when I would start a day and when I would end the day. When the day had ended on the music side of things, I wasn't allowed to think about it or do any emails or consider going to the studio in my garden.

It was very much like, from this time onwards, I'm here, I'm present, I'm going to be cleaning up all the mucky food on the highchair. [chuckles] I'm going to be changing his nappy and all that sort of thing. I really just wanted to try and live that hybrid lifestyle, because like I said at the start of this conversation, I had spent that first four months completely no working and was there all the time during the days and I loved it.

Getting back into writing, I missed spending that time with him. In a way, creating those boundaries and routines really helped me get that sense of more life experience with my son and my family and my wife, versus feeling too engulfed in the creative process, which is very easy, especially when you're making an album. I found a good balance, for sure.

Kousha Navidar: You talked at the beginning about how one of your goals with this album was to be as vulnerable as possible. I'm sure that music allows you to explore themes within your personal life. It's a form of expression. Were there subjects or are there subjects that felt too intimate for you to share, or did it actually enable you to access all of those intimate experiences' feelings?

Jordan Rakei: That's a really good question.There was, actually. There was a song I was writing, and it started off about my childhood and then the growth of me as a person meeting my wife, changing countries. Then things happened in our marriage, and the song ends the full circle moment with having a son and the amazing journey to look forward to. I remember writing that song feeling really vulnerable. I was even struggling to write the lyrics on the page. When I was singing them, I was getting emotional and thinking I'd never really had that experience before, writing so openly and feeling so naked, if you know what I mean. When I wrote it, I felt so connected to the song, not like I had really felt like that before.

Then I had this epiphany like, oh, [unintelligible 00:11:20] this has to be released and now shared with the public. I have to pour my heart out to all these people. In a way, I'm more proud of that. I'm more excited for people to hear that side of me, the really inner workings of my crazy mind. I'm really just proud of diving deep into that whole vulnerability world. My growth in that element has been massive since having a child.

Kousha Navidar: If you're just joining us, we're talking to Jordan Rakei, who's a multi-instrumentalist and vocalist. The Loop is his new album. It releases Friday, May 10th. Jordan, you released a song for your new album titled Freedom. I'd love to listen to a bit of it, but tell us about the song first. What did you want listeners to feel when they were listening to it?

Jordan Rakei: When I was making this song, I was thinking about the sense of freedom for me, especially thinking about this whole parenthood concept, was having that childlike energy. I remembered all the times I felt most free in my life, was running around my garden with my brothers or playing with my friends.

In a way, I wanted to tell that story of the optimistic sense of freedom through the lyrics, but also, I want you to try and capture it sonically with more of an upbeat feel and a euphoric energy with the choir, and the clapping, and the party nature. Just like a good vibe was the idea around it and trying to embrace that childlike nature in all of us, because I feel like we all have it, but we get sometimes pressured down by the world and you lose sight of it. It is talking about embracing that inner freedom in a sense of child.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to it. Here is Freedom.

[MUSIC- Jordan Rakei: Freedom]

Kousha Navidar: That was Freedom from the multi-instrumentalist and vocalist Jordan Rakei. Jordan, last month you tweeted something I really appreciated. You said, "If you're struggling for new music, go and research your idol's influences." When I read that, I was just wondering who is that for you? Do any names come to mind?

Jordan Rakei: Well, that's a good one. Definitely. I grew up listening to DeAngelo, for example. I had rinsed DeAngelo too much in my life, to the point where I knew every lyric of every song, every chord. I thought, you know what, I'm going to go back and read interviews where he talks about his idols. Basically, I went and listened to Prince and Sly and the Family Stone, and George and Parliament Funkadelic. It's so abstract hearing weirdly myself through those artists who I'd never really dived that deeply into.

Obviously, I listened to quite a lot of Prince in my life, and then I did that with every single artist that I would call some of my pillar influences. Then I discovered so much. You realize there's so much music backwards. Sometimes you're looking for new music a lot, but there's so much old music to discover, especially for new generations, as I keep coming. That was me passing the torch to anyone now being like, "Go and listen to some old stuff because it's just amazing what was written back in the '60s, '70s and '80s."

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. In another song, Friend or Foe, you build up brass instruments, and it's wonderful to listen to that juxtaposed to Freedom where you're talking about a choral choir because you're talking about '60s, '70s music. You can definitely hear that brass influence come through. Let's take a listen to that song right now.

[MUSIC: Jordan Rakei: Friend or Foe]

Kousha Navidar: That was Friend or Foe from the new album The Loop, from multi-instrumentalist and vocalist Jordan Rakei. It gets released Friday, May 10th. Jordan, I'm just curious, what was the first instrument you learned to play?

Jordan Rakei: It was piano. It was because my neighbor was going to get rid of it and my dad just asked if we could have it back when I was about five years old. They gave us a piano, and that was the start of it all.

Kousha Navidar: That's funny. That's how I ended up learning piano, too. I ran into a random piano that no one else wanted. That's wonderful. How many instruments do you play now?

Jordan Rakei: I play piano, I would say, as a main instrument. I can play maybe bass guitar, drums, a couple of other instruments just to get by on a production and songwriting level, but I would never really session and play those instruments live. I can dabble in a few things, for sure.

Kousha Navidar: How helpful is it for you to play all of those instruments when you're self-producing an album, which is quite a feat?

Jordan Rakei: It's actually really important, because when I used to self-produce everything and play all the parts, especially when you're an upcoming artist, when you have low budget, having the ability to fulfill the idea that was in your head on every instrument is really helpful, because then you can paint your whole world of your sound because sometimes obviously people are limited by what instrument they can play or who they're connected with as collaborators. Even when now I work with other musicians, I'm able to articulate specific things for each instrument that I'd like or that might work better for the song. I would say, yes, it's a huge asset for me, for sure.

Kousha Navidar: Your career has gone international over the course of your life as well. You were born in New Zealand, you grew up in Australia, and moved to the United Kingdom to put yourself out there as a musician in 2015. What are some of the biggest lessons you've learned while working in the music industry this last decade?

Jordan Rakei: Wow. Good question. I would say, for sure, I think what I've really learned from myself and also people that I really look up to is the London attitude of really grinding away, constantly writing, constantly collaborating, constantly working with other musicians and building your own portfolio.

I think I've worked with a lot of people here that are so driven to just release an album every year, and just work and release and never be too attached to that perfectionistic culture, and especially as the world has become even more fast-paced in terms of consuming things. Not to encourage artists to just jump on that trend and just release anything, but I think it gives us a nice challenge to be able to keep up with the speed of the modern world. That's what London, I feel, has really given me, is the drive and motivation to just work hard, and work fast and constantly collaborate, and get as much music out as possible.

Kousha Navidar: You're starting a tour in Europe right now, is that right?

Jordan Rakei: That's right.

Kousha Navidar: Do you have any plans to come to New York by any chance?

Jordan Rakei: Definitely, we're hoping to come, for sure, at some stage this year. It's all getting wrapped up, but I'm really excited to finally be coming back to the States for the first time in about five years now, so super excited.

Kousha Navidar: Question on air, not to put pressure on you, but when you do come to New York, would you be willing to come to WNYC Studio Five, maybe do a live performance, we can hang out a little bit together, talk about your music. What do you think?

Jordan Rakei: Absolutely. Yes. Any track you want me to play, any setup, we'll do it, for sure. Yes, be grateful to.

Kousha Navidar: Well, game set and match. I'm excited to see you when you come in. We've been talking to Jordan Rakei. His new album, The Loop, is released Friday, May 10th. Let's go out on a little bit of music, but before we do that, Jordan, thank you so much for joining us.

Jordan Rakei: Thank you so much for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to a track, Flowers. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Jordan Rakei: Flowers]

Kousha Navidar: Passover is coming up, and tomorrow we'll talk about how the lessons of the Passover story resonate with some of today's most pressing issues. This was All Of It. Thanks so much. Have a great day. See you here again tomorrow.

[MUSIC - Jordan Rakei: Flowers]

[00:21:20] [END OF AUDIO]

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