[All Of It theme music]

Kousha Navidar: You're listening to All Of It. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart. If you grew up in New York City or lived here for a while, you've probably noticed some beautiful pieces of art along your commute. A new book features 103 artworks completed between 2015 and 2023 across New York's transit system and offers a behind-the-scenes look at how these pieces were created and installed. It's titled Contemporary Art Underground. The book shows how public art has expanded and flourished. Today, there are more than 350 active programs in the United States, including Underground Art Museum, administered by MTA Arts and Design.

Some of the artists the book spotlights include names like Kiki Smith, Yayoi Kusama, Nick Cave, Derrick Adams, and it's available now for purchase. Joining me now to discuss the book and the history of subway art are the book's co-authors. Please welcome Sandra Bloodworth, the Director of MTA Arts and Design. It's a department within the transit authority. Sandra, welcome back to All Of It.

Sandra Bloodworth: Thank you, Kousha. It's terrific to be here.

Kousha Navidar: It's wonderful to have you. Also joining us is MTA Arts and Design's Deputy Director Cheryl Hageman. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Cheryl Hageman: Thank you, Kousha.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, we also want to hear from you. We're talking about art in subway stations. We want to hear about your favorite subway art. Where is it and what does it look like? How does the presence of subway art change your experience of taking the train? Give us a call or send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-4331-WYNC, or you can hit us up on our socials. We're @Allofitwnyc. Sandra, let's dive into the book. It features a 103 artworks installed within the last nine years. What did you want readers to understand about the process of installing these works behind the scenes?

Sandra Bloodworth: Well, our customers have seen for so many years the work show up to see it there, and we wanted them to know just how it got there. From the selection, through the design process, through the fabrication, and then installation.

Kousha Navidar: You're thinking about all of these beautiful pieces of art. Cheryl, MTA Arts and Design was founded in 1985. In the book's introduction, it states that more than 400 permanent artworks have been commissioned by the MTA over the past four decades. Can you tell us about the application process for the artists? How do you decide which artists to collaborate with for a public art installation?

Sandra Bloodworth: I think I'll take that, if you don't mind.

Kousha Navidar: Sure.

Sandra Bloodworth: Our selection process has been around from the beginning, almost the same process. What we do, the most important thing is that we engage the community, and we get the best art. It's that process of bringing the community represented on the panel with arts professionals, so you have both. Together, we look at a large pool of artists, and then we bring it down to four finalists, and they propose. From there, we select one artist proposal that's for that particular site.

Kousha Navidar: How long would you say it normally takes from concept to execution for all of this? Cheryl, you want to maybe take that?

Cheryl Hageman: Sure. Of the more than 100 works that are featured in the book, I would say we have examples that were completed in under one year, which is very fast for us. Then also, if we're looking at some of the longer planning projects, like 2nd Avenue Subway, those were probably closer to seven years, would you say that's right, Sandra?

Sandra Bloodworth: The entire 2nd Avenue was longer than we were--

Cheryl Hageman: Sure, but the art component.

Sandra Bloodworth: Right, right. About seven years.

Kousha Navidar: When you think about that, how do you keep the vision on track? How many people are a part of selecting and of working with the artist? Is it a very one-on-one situation, or are there many different elements that go into making sure that for a seven-year project, the vision goes all the way through?

Cheryl Hageman: Well, for what I think in MTA speak would be considered a "Megaproject." There are a huge number of people who are involved in that process. Each project does have a project manager, an arts administrator, who is responsible for working with the artist, once the artist has been selected through our process, which involves a number of people. Then, of course, working with the fabricator to make sure that the work, as it's translated, and working with the architects, the engineers to make sure that when it's brought into the station that everything is as it needs to be.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking about subway art installations. Everyone in New York City must have a favorite subway station piece of art that they've seen. I know that I have mine, which we can talk about in a bit. We're here with Sandra Bloodworth, who's the MTA Arts and Design Director, and Cheryl Hageman, who is the MTA Arts and Design Deputy Director. Listeners, we want to get your calls about your favorite pieces of art on the subway. Where is it? What does it look like? How does your presence and the presence of subway art change your experience of taking the train? Give us a call or send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

We just got a text that I want to read, which I think is lovely. It says, "Nancy's Flowers, 28th, 6th train. I love almost all subway art, too. Love visiting Elise Murray at 59th Lexington." Sandra, you had mentioned before about the community that is within the subway station, where we see each subway and rail station has its own aesthetic. We got Prospect Ave. It's different from 2nd Ave., which is different from Times Square. What aspects of the neighborhood do you take into account as you're attempting to forge a unique identity for each station through art?

Sandra Bloodworth: The people, the people, the people. It's the people who live there, and then everything else reflects that in some way. Now, we may have historical elements too that become important, but it's the artist that has the vision. Our role is to be sure they are grounded in that community, and then that gives them the basis to speak to the people who are using it. We do a great deal of research when we're doing our selection process, and we share as much as we can find out about the community. Then we have the community representatives that also share. Then we have the arts professionals, and they pull it all together to get the best art. That's the trick. The best art, but that speaks to those who use this place.

Kousha Navidar: Can you think of a specific example where the community and the art professionals and the MTA really came together to create something that you thought was well reflective and additive and beautiful to the subway station where it appeared?

Sandra Bloodworth: I think that's true with almost every one. I'm glad you didn't ask me which one that didn't happen, but--

Kousha Navidar: Yes, sure.

Sandra Bloodworth: If you look at 167th in the Bronx with Rico Gatson, he created these icons that were basically from his work, but icons of artists or all sorts of notable people who had ties to the Bronx. He had made the station a destination and the community is just in love with the station. I probably got as many comments from people to write me or track me down on that project as any.

Kousha Navidar: Wow. We have another text that I love to read. It says, "The in-station displays have made me ignore my arriving train. One of favorites, the AMNH station, American Museum of Natural History, which is beautiful." Cheryl, in the book, you talk about durability being a requirement of the work and that mosaic glass and metal continue to be the most durable. What are some uncommon materials that artists have used in the installations?

Sandra Bloodworth: Well, that's the trick. Cheryl works very closely with the artist's own materials. That's one of her areas, but we really limit that. We really stay away from those untried materials, because when we're commissioning, it has to last forever, doesn't it, Cheryl?

Cheryl Hageman: Yes. Well, that's the idea for the life of the station, but I am thinking of a twist that we have. For example, at Grand Central, we have a project that was originally conceived to be a mosaic project. The artist is Jim Hodges. It was ultimately realized in mirrored glass. We did have to do a lot of research on the material to be sure that the mirror would hold up in that environment, but I think as a result, it looks different from anything else that we've been able to fabricate.

Kousha Navidar: Wow.

Sandra Bloodworth: It's fantastic, isn't it, Cheryl?

Cheryl Hageman: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful. Hey, we got to take a quick break, but we see some calls coming in, so what we're going to do is out of the break, take some more calls, hear some more from you listeners about what your favorite subway art installations are. We're here with Sandra Bloodworth and Cheryl Hageman. They are from the MTA Arts and Design Department within the MTA. We're talking about their new book, Contemporary Art Underground. It's about the subway art that makes us fall in love with either getting to work, getting to the grocery store, wherever you're going. If you have a piece of subway art that you want to call out, give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC, and we'll be right back after a quick break.

[All Of It theme music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, and we are talking about subway art. The new book, Contemporary Art Underground, goes into many of the installations and subway pieces of art that you see every single time you're riding the 1, 2, A, B, whatever it is. Art fills this city in the transit system, and this book goes into that. We're talking to Sandra Bloodworth, who's the MTA Arts and Design Director, and Cheryl Hageman, who's the MTA Arts and Design Deputy Director. Listeners, we're taking your calls. Is there a piece of art that you see whenever you ride the subway or when you're waiting for the subway that really speaks to you?

Give us a call or send us a text. We want to hear about it. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. We've got a couple of callers that I'd love to get to. First, let's hear from Hal in Crown Heights. Hi Hal, welcome to the show.

Hal: Hi. Hi. Hi. Great. I love mosaics generally throughout the system, and historically. There's a great context for them historically and the ceramic work that decorates the stations. I just love the fact that new contemporary artists are doing mosaics in stations. Among my favorites are the Lincoln Center Station. The gold tiles, gold glittery tiles, I just think that the durability of mosaics and the persistence of the colors is just one of the real blessings of some of the best artwork we have in the subways.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, Hal, thank you so much for calling that out. Lincoln Center Station. If you haven't been there yet, check it out. Let's go to Brian in Hastings. Hi Brian, welcome to the show.

Brian Hi, how are you doing?

Kousha Navidar: Good, thanks.

Brian: I just wanted to talk about Rory Mulligan's current installation at the Grand Central dining vestibule called Auguries, in which he photographs mostly native birds in the Metropolitan area and uses them as an omen or arbiter for climate change, while also talking about a sublime type of beauty.

Kousha Navidar: Brian, thank you so much for calling that out. Cheryl, I saw you nodding your head to that one. Does that one speak to you specifically at Grand Central?

Cheryl Hageman: I'm glad that the caller has raised the issue of the fact that besides our permanent projects, of which we have 400, we also have a number of temporary programs. The caller's referring to one of our photo light box exhibitions that we have at Grand Central in the dining concourse.

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful. Sandra, go ahead.

Sandra Bloodworth: Music. We have music, photography, poetry.

Cheryl Hageman: Digital arts.

Sandra Bloodworth: There you go.

Kousha Navidar: One of my favorites. I ride the Q, and this one I think is old. I think it was reinstalled in 2012, but there's actually an animation that I see. The Transiscope, I think it's called.

Cheryl Hageman: Masstransiscope, yes.

Kousha Navidar: Masstransiscope. I'll admit I found it out last week, but it was so delightful to get to see it as you're going by.

Sandra Bloodworth: Bill Brand. Sorry.

Kousha Navidar: Bill Brand, yes. There's one other that I wanted to be sure that I brought up. In the first chapter, you focus on the Cortland Street station below the World Trade Center on the 1 line. The process of selecting an artist for this station post 9/11 was described as an emotionally charged process. The committee selected Anne Hamilton as a finalist. Sandra, can you tell us about the installation she proposed and what stuck out to the committee about her proposal?

Sandra Bloodworth: Yes. Anne has an ability to really speak to a place in an ephemeral way. Here we were at the World Trade Center and what an enormous responsibility to create work that was in this location. Anne brought chorus there by weaving words, words from two very important documents, the preamble to the Declaration of Independence and the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights. She took the words that were similar and she wove them together. She said it created a chorus where the voices, these solitary voices, become a chorus. Her ability to make a statement there that resonates with all of us, I think, and resonates in a powerful way. I thought it was just beyond what anyone could have imagined.

Kousha Navidar: Our understanding is that Hamilton has a background in textiles.

Sandra Bloodworth: That's right.

Kousha Navidar: Sandra, I heard you use the word wove or weave, which seems pretty close to textiles. Cheryl, when Anne was making this art, was there discussion about applying fundamentals of textiles to what we would see at the subway station? Did that play a role at all?

Cheryl Hageman: I'll let Sandra, who was directly involved in that process, speak to that.

Kousha Navidar: Sure. Sandra, tell us about it.

Sandra Bloodworth: That project, I worked extremely closely with Anne along with our other deputy, Yaling Chen. We worked closely with her. The way Anne works, it's not solitary, but it's within her studio. She had a collaborator, Hans Cohen, who was a typographer that she worked with. I think the way Anne works, it's almost her thoughts weave in through and out a project. This really happened in a more solitary way. Then she brought that, the weaving part is, you see it in the way the text sits on the wall. It says if it's woven through. That's where the magic is.

Artists bring from their studio that which is unique, that which is about their work, and they bring it into this public context, the community, and everyone becomes involved in how those things marry.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking about subway art, the new book, Contemporary Art Underground. It's from the MTA Arts and Design in New York. We've got Sandra Bloodworth and Cheryl Hageman with us, and we're talking to you about your favorite pieces of subway art in the stations while you're in the train. Give us a call or send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. I got a text that I want to read out here. "When my daughter was little, we took her to preschool on the 1 Train. Loved the mother-baby sea life art canal, which is lovely." We've also got Elizabeth on the phone from Manhattan. Hi Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Elizabeth: Hello. Thank you very much. I'm very happy to hear about this because I love the subway art. I was talking about the tunnel that goes from 42nd and 8th over to the 7 train, so that's from the 8 train to the 7. That one has figures on both sides, and you feel like you're being welcomed and helped along on your voyage by looking at those folks. Then by chance going to Coney Island on the train, and I saw some stained glass work, which I think was art from Felipe Lindo or maybe from Andrea Arroyo, and it was gorgeous. I love the art.

Now that the person who's you've talked about who you use the word weaving, and I'm a weaver, and I thought, "Hmm, now, of course you can't put wool on the wall, but how to weave it all in." This is a lovely program. Thank you.

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful. Elizabeth, thank you so much. So happy to have a weaver on to be able to talk about it. Cheryl, I wanted to make sure that we brought up 145th Street as well. At the 145th Street Station, there's this piece titled Parade by Derek Fordjou, which depicts Black performers or majorettes. He often works in collage, video, film, sculpture, and painting. What was the process like of having his work translated into this texture wall-sized painting?

Cheryl Hageman: That's a great question. I think one of the things that we were really aiming to do through the book, Contemporary Art Underground is share that process that the fabricators actually go, once they've been selected by an artist, they oftentimes spend time in the artist's studio really getting an understanding of their process. What is translated into whatever the durable material is, in this case, it was Stephen Miotto from Miotto Mosaics, who was translating Derek's artwork into Mosaic for 145th Street. He spent time in Derek's studio watching the way that he layers his work because his process is really a buildup of different materials from newsprint and paints.

I think that really comes through in the finished mosaic, which of course is solid pieces of glass, but you get a layered sense. You get the glittering tones.

Kousha Navidar: When you're working with artists, what do you want to make sure they understand about working in this medium, especially when you're talking about complicated visions of using glass and all these other different materials?

Cheryl Hageman: I'm sorry. What do the artists think?

Kousha Navidar: When you're working with the artists, what do you want to make sure they understand about working in this medium? Maybe something that you want to make sure they hold in mind as they're trying these new things out.

Cheryl Hageman: Well, it is important for them to realize that it is going to be a little bit of a departure from their normal process, which is often very, as Sandra used the word, solitary, before to describe Anne's process, working in a studio and in mediums that they're very familiar with. This is a bit more experimental.

Sandra Bloodworth: The thing that's really important is the fabricator. That the fabricator understands it's their job to capture what's on that proposal, what's on that work of art. It's our job at Arts & Design to be sure the fabricator we approve that work and at a sample level, and to be sure that they are capturing the artist. More than that is, the responsibility is not on the artist, it's on the fabricator though, it becomes a collaboration when it's ideal.

Kousha Navidar: What are some elements that you think help produce that good working relationship with the fabricator? Is it open communication? Do you draw on what you've learned in the past about what works or what doesn't?

Sandra Bloodworth: Absolutely. It's multiple things, but the ultimate is, does the work that's created become the work of the artist, and spotting that. We can all get in a hurry or we can all have lots of things happening, but it's our job to be sure that is always happening. That the artist's work is up on the wall, not the fabricators.

Kousha Navidar: Very quickly, maybe in the last 15 seconds or so, is there a specific artist that is working on something right now that you're quite excited about?

Sandra Bloodworth: I'm excited about them all.

Kousha Navidar: [laughs]

Sandra Bloodworth: I can't-- We haven't announced who we're working on yet, so I'm not going to spill that bean.

Kousha Navidar: All right. Well keep out for it. Fair enough maybe we'll see a sign for it on the subway.

Sandra Bloodworth: Okay.

[music]

Kousha Navidar: We've been talking about contemporary art underground from MTA Arts & Design, New York. We've been joined by Sandra Bloodworth, the MTA Arts & Design Director, and Cheryl Hageman, the Deputy MTA Arts & Design Director. Thank you both so much for joining us.

[00:22:50] [END OF AUDIO]

 

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