Alison Stewart: This is All of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. On today's show, we'll learn about the hilarious and gut wrenching new play We Had a World. Artist Rashid Johnson is here to talk about his new exhibit at the Guggenheim, along with its curator, Naomi Beckwith, and former National Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith. We'll read some of our work and help us celebrate Poetry Month. Get ready to call in with your favorite poems. That is our plan, so let's get this started with some legends of Broadway.

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Barbra Streisand, Andre de Shields, Dick Van Dyke, Rita Moreno, Lin Manuel Miranda, Mandy Patinkin, Audra McDonald. These are just some of the names featured in the recent Vulture and New York Magazine feature Legends of Broadway for their annual yesteryear issue. The spread includes 29 different actors speaking about some of their most memorable roles. Those roles span 65 years of Broadway history, from 1960s Bye Bye Birdie to the current revival of Gypsy. It also includes amazing photos taken by renowned portrait photographer Mark Seliger. Joining me now to discuss the feature is Mark Seliger. Hi, Mark.

Mark Seliger: Hi there. How are you, Alison?

Alison Stewart: I am doing well. The editor-in-chief of New York Magazine, David Haskell. Hi, David.

David Haskell: Hi, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Who is your favorite Broadway legend? What is a Broadway character or a performance that has always stuck with you? Who is someone you think deserves to be considered a Broadway legend? Give us a call or text us. Our number is 212-433-WNYC. 212-433-9692. You can call in, you can join us on air, or you can text that number as well. David, why did your team decide to cover Broadway for this annual yesteryear issue?

David Haskell: Well, every April, the magazine celebrates its anniversary by exploring New York City history through a different lens each year. This year, we took on Broadway and the New York stage. In addition to featuring essays by Frank Rich and Mark Harris, we realized we had this incredible opportunity to create a photography portfolio of legends of the American theater. What we realized early on and what made Mark just the absolute perfect photographer to work with on it was the opportunity to capture not just the performers, but actually the performances.

Alison Stewart: Mark, what did you see as your primary goal for this photography assignment?

Mark Seliger: Well, the idea behind, the concept the of the portfolio is really about-- it was a very performative experience. Getting to know the characters the actors played was first and foremost on the front end. Then Daniel Edley, our stylist, was amazing in finding pieces that nodded towards that particular performance and the character and then really bringing the subjects in and letting them play. We sort of created multiple stages in my studio and gave them an opportunity to just be who they were in the particular performance. It was great from that. It was kind of a dream job for me, but I think for a lot of the actors, it was a dream job because they didn't have to be themselves. They could be their favorite role.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting, in the course of taking the picture, the photos not only capture the essence of the actor, but the character they played as well. It looks like some of them are singing during. Was that the case?

Mark Seliger: Yes. There were some real, real high moments where, like, Patti LuPone would sing next to her soundtrack. Everybody just kind of stopped and gawked at the beauty of her voice. The same thing with the way that we had William Daniels, who is in his 90s, and his wife would recite a line and then he would have the return. It was a lot of acting. We had Jeffrey Wright, who in his particular performance of Underdog--

Alison Stewart: Top Dog/Underdog, yes.

Mark Seliger: He insisted on doing his own stunt where he would fall backwards in a chair and we would try to catch him. He would say, "No, no, no, no, no. I don't really want anybody to be back there. Let me just do this." We must have done it about 15 times. Fortunately, he did not hurt himself. That moment of true action, which happens in live theater, was kind of the beauty of it all. I think that that's really what we tried to open up was the idea that there was this real-time experience happening within a single image.

Alison Stewart: David, many of these actors talked about the pressure they felt. Why do you think there was this unique pressure that comes with being a Broadway star?

David Haskell: Well, I'm sure there's a lot of answers to that. I bet both of us would be pretty nervous to be on stage tonight, but I do think one element or one answer that comes through in this project is how much they're really performing for one another, that there's so much mutual respect among the performers who take the stage.

There is a real dialogue, not only in the sort of literal situations where you might be putting on a revival and sort of nodding to previous incarnations of the role, but far beyond that, there were a lot of conversations we had with the actors about the roles that matter to them. You can just feel that even though it has this sort of star wattage, and especially this season on Broadway, you can tell George Clooney and the rest, there's just a kind of global celebrity aspect of it. It's actually an intimate slice of American culture, and the actors who are performing at the very top of their game are motivated by each other in a really moving way.

Alison Stewart: We're getting some texts here. Brian Dennehy in Death of a Salesman, Al Pacino in The Merchant of Venice, Gregory Hines appearing in both Sophisticated Ladies, which was a celebration of Duke Ellington's music, and Jelly's Last Jam, which told the story of Jelly Roll Morton. Both unforgettable. Let's also talk to Peter. Hi, Peter. Thanks for calling All of It. You're on the air.

Peter: Oh, hi. I'm just recalling a magnificent performance by Yul Brynner in a revival of The King and I, which I saw at the Gershwin, or it was the Uris at the time, a huge theater where Wicked is playing now. I was in the cheapest seats in the back row and just having this amazing experience that he was doing the show for me and that he knew I was there. I would never say Yul Brynner was the greatest actor in the world, but such charisma, such presence. I found out many years later he was quite not well at the time. His health wasn't great, but it was unforgettable.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. My guests are photographer Mark Seliger and editor-in-chief of New York magazine, David Haskell. We're talking about their new spread of photos and interviews covering 29 Broadway stars. It's called the Legends of Broadway. Listeners, we'd love to have you join our conversation. Who is your favorite Broadway legend? What's a Broadway character or performance that has always stuck with you? Our phone lines are open. 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Mark, which photoshoot proved that was a little difficult to complete?

Mark Seliger: Well, I mean, I have to say that every time we go into a session, every session is going to have its own set of challenges. Probably our biggest cover that we were able to bring together, bring to fruition was Barbra Streisand. Now everybody knows Barbra Streisand. Maybe they don't know sort of the Broadway Barbra, but I had never photographed her. She's 83 years old, kind of shy in terms of the experience of being photographed, but really knows her lighting.

For me, it was setting up the collaboration, which she was very much a part of, and she really wanted to have the right references in order to be able to show her lighting. I pulled what I considered to be the best pictures of Barbra Streisand ever taken. Since I hadn't photographed her, I was using anything I could find. The Avedon images of Barbra back in the '60s were my favorite, and the lighting was very particular.

Barbra came out, and she looked like an older Barbra, but the minute that she put on this beautiful-- we had this beautiful '60s hat that Daniel got, and she came out with kind of a cape coat that she loved black, and we started to take pictures, she turned into Barbra. There was a moment of hesitation, and yet once she became that person, it all of a sudden just worked itself out. I can't say that I was completely uncomfortable at first, but I would say that I had a little bit of anxiety about getting where I needed to go. Once it happened, it happened. It was really, really fun.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about Lin Manuel Miranda. People might be surprised that Lin is in here for In the Heights, not Hamilton. Let's--

Mark Seliger: Do you know why?

Alison Stewart: Tell me why.

Mark Seliger: I had photographed him years ago for Hamilton, and his request was that we don't revisit that, because that image had already been out in the world. In the Heights was obviously a great performance, an early performance for him. We had an opportunity to kind of do him in that role. That was kind of where we went with that. Once we settled on that being the character, he was all in.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a little bit of Lin's performance as Usnavi from the show In the Heights.

[MUSIC - Lin Manuel Miranda: In the Heights]

Yeah, I'm a streetlight, chokin' on the heat

The world spins around while I'm frozen to my seat

The people that I know all keep on rollin' down the street

But every day is different so I'm switchin' up the beat

'Cause my parents came with nothing, they got a little more

And sure, we're poor, but yo, at least we got the store

And it's all about the legacy they left with me, it's destiny

And one day I'll be on a beach with Sonny writing checks to me

In the Heights, I hang my flag up on display

We came to work and to live and we got a lot in common

It reminds me that I came from miles away

D.R., P.R., we are not stoppin'

In the Heights

Every day, paciencia y fe

Until the day we go from poverty to stock options

In the Heights

I've got today!

Today's all we got, so we cannot stop

This is our block!

In the Heights

Alison Stewart: I know Lin Manuel Miranda whenever I hear him. David, Andre de Shields, he seemed like he was on a mission to both promote and protect the legacy of The Wiz. What did he have to say to you about what that project meant to him and to Black audiences?

David Haskell: Yes, I'm glad you singled this one out. I really recommend everyone listening now to spend some time with the interview that we did with him in particular. He feels so-- such a obligation, I think, is the right word to protect the legacy of not just his performance, but that show and that production. He was saying that he felt that the film adaptation, which is probably most people's reference, didn't live up to the show itself. It's really important to him to just stress how great it is.

If you look at that portrait of him that Mark took, and then you can see we published in sort of postage stamp size some references for the reader to have the experience of seeing the performances in their original production. It's just an uncanny sort of return or channeling of the power of the original role. I think that that's true in general.

I really recommend studying these pictures closely because as we were trying to find a way to show history, a history of live performance, that's a really difficult thing to capture. What Mark was able to do is pull out of these subjects a very contemporary picture that's also, of course, referencing 30, 40, 60 years ago, and you can sort of see it all at once. You can see that in Andre's. You can see in Joel Grey's, Liza Minnelli's. It's just an incredible sort of uncanny experience.

Alison Stewart: Let's hear a little bit of Andre de Shields from The Wiz. This is Believe in Yourself.

[MUSIC - Andre de Shields: Believe in Yourself]

Believe there's a reason to be

Believe you can make time stand still

And the know from the moment you try

If you believe, I know you will

Believe in yourself

Alison Stewart: That's from a 2013 performance by Andre de Shields. Let's talk to Martin in the Bronx. Hey, Martin.

Martin: Oh, hi, Alison. Well, I've been fortunate enough. I've been going to Broadway for 65 years, starting when my parents took me. It was either 1960, '61, where I got to see Richard Burton, Julie Andrews, and Robert Goulet, I'm going to start to cry, in Camelot. What a show that stands out in my mind as the most wonderful show I think I ever got to see. It was in the Majestic Theater that I happened to go to this week to see Audra in Gypsy, but another iconic performance. It should have been around 1965, where I got to see Richard Kiley in Man of La Mancha. He was incredible. Anyway, thank you.

Alison Stewart: You should be on a legend of people who have seen Broadway shows. That's what you should be on, Martin. Thanks for calling in. We'll have more with our Legends of Broadway, David Haskell and Mark Seliger after a quick break. This is All of It.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests, photographer Mark Seliger, and editor-in-chief of New York Magazine, David Haskell. We're talking about their new spread of photos and interviews covering 29 Broadway stars. It's called the Legends of Broadway. Mark, Dick Van Dyke is included in this spread. He's set to turn 100 this December. You get how lively he is in this photo, but he did take some convincing to be a part of it. Would you share that story with us?

Mark Seliger: Sure. We were working on Dick for a couple of weeks, and fortunately, I had bumped into Judd Apatow, who's very good friends with him, and he texted Arlene, Dick's wife, and got her to agree to the shoot. We met them. He was doing a little cabaret performance at a local Malibu store coffee shop. We set up and got ready and he came in and he was just delightful, telling us that Bye Bye Birdie was his favorite role in theater and that they had messed up once again, they'd messed up in the movie, but he was really proud of that role.

Went in for a shave, went in for a little grooming, and he was falling asleep. She said, "Hey, it's possible we could do this a different day." I was like, "Oh my gosh, we cannot. We have to do it now." Got Dick up. He did his sound check for his little cabaret performance, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Then came in front of the camera and just turned it on. He's a song and dance man. It was just an absolute delight. I wish I could show you my little video on my phone of him dancing around, because to see him in action was just incredible. 99 years old and just a lot of chutzpah, a lot of spunk.

Alison Stewart: Let's get to some text. Philip Seymour Hoffman, Death of a Salesman. Mark Rylance in Jerusalem, Nicole Scherzinger in Sunset Boulevard. Shana Taub and the whole cast of Suffs. In the 1960s, John Raitt as Billy Bigelow in Carousel at Lincoln Center. All these years, the most unforgettable of all, of course, the dad to Bonnie Raitt. Let's talk about revivals, David. You have Nathan Lane in Guys and Dolls. Audra McDonald in Gypsy. How did you decide when a performer in revival deserved the spotlight, considering all their other performances they've had?

David Haskell: Well, the whole project was a puzzle. At the heart of it was finding a way to celebrate a sort of enormous but also manageable number of Broadway legends. To do so with performances that really resonated with audiences in the sense of making a career moment for them, but then also resonated with the actors themselves and then also trying to space things out.

Of course, Patti LuPone, for instance, there are many different options we could go. She has delivered a wide number of incredible performances. There was a lot of just playing back and forth. I think that revivals, in some cases, you mentioned too, Bebe Neuwirth, also in Chicago. Her revival was 30 years ago this year, I think. That, of course, was, I think, 20 years after the original. Bebe's was just a great example of one that is indelible in the minds of so many theater lovers alive today and mattered so much to her personally. It's sort of a no-brainer to work with her on that. Mark, you had such a beautiful-- that you captured there.

Mark Seliger: Yes, we had a moment where we were working out the posing and she was all in, in terms of playing the character. Then at the very last shot that we did, which was pretty physical, she came over and she looked at the monitor and she started to cry. She was like, "You captured the essence of the character, and yet me at this point in my life," and it was very moving. Everybody on set was brought to tears by just seeing the emotional experience that she was having from seeing the image. It was pretty wonderful.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a few more calls. Steven is calling in from Chelsea. Hi, Steven. Thanks for taking the time to call all of it today.

Steven: Hey, Alison, it's Steven at the Protein Bakery. Remember me? I love listening to you.

Alison Stewart: Oh, hi, Steven.

Steven: I'm your cookie guy.

Alison Stewart: I remember, yes.

Steven: I just wanted to hear more about the Idina Menzel shoot. I just saw her for the fifth time last night in Redwood with the staff of the Protein Bakery, and we love the show so much, and we love her so much. We think she's so unique on Broadway, and Redwood is such a heartfelt feelings musical. To see her recreate Maureen for the shoot was so exciting to me.

Alison Stewart: Mark, you want to take that?

Mark Seliger: Yes, it was fantastic. For her performance in Rent, she came with her original shirt, which was fantastic. So did Andre. He came with his original costume, which was a blessing, I think, for our costume designer, but she just jumped right in into performance. I think probably with Idina, it was the shortest shoot we had of the entire sessions. She just started to belt it out and play the character, found the moment, and it was pretty much over right as it started. It's perfect. I'd worked with her before for a piece for New York Magazine, so we had a relationship, and it was great.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Rosalynn, who's also calling in from Manhattan. Hi, Rosalynn. Thank you so much for calling.

Rosalynn: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hi.

Rosalynn: Thanks for taking my call. You cannot do this without mentioning Zero Mostel, and it's too bad he's not around to be in your project, but his presence on Broadway filled the space. He was beyond human. He was amazing. I think he got his start in Rhinoceros in the early '60s, and then, of course, he did the Sondheim A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, where he played a slave trying to win his freedom by helping his master get a girl. The classic that everyone thinks of but I don't think is necessarily his best was Tevye and Fiddler. The man was beyond a human. He was a star. He does belong in your story.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling, Rosalynn. I want to talk about Joel Grey, David. Joel Grey is featured in the piece, of course, legendary for his role as the Emcee in Cabaret. We actually just had Orville Peck on the show last week, who took over as the role of the Emcee in Cabaret, which is on Broadway right now. What did Joel share with you about his process for creating what is now an overused word, but it is actually true in this case, an iconic character?

David Haskell: Well, I think what he gets into in his conversation with us is he had to cross a threshold of taste. We have a quote from him saying, "I was disgusting." He had to get disgusting and go very vulgar. It was after a few different iterations of trying out the role that. He was working with Hal Prince, the director, and he just talks about, at a certain point, he tried a version that was just so filthy, and that Hal said was, "That's it." It's kind of incredible that it's now become so iconic that it's sort of, as you say, it's like canon, but I think what he gets at is just how uncomfortable and what a risk he took in order to develop in the first place.

We have 29 actors in this portfolio. We were able to create eight different covers. In those cases, you can see a picture of Marx in the inside in the portfolio. It's really quite a pleasure to see both of the Joel Grey pictures because they just together give you such energy.

Alison Stewart: Here's a bit of Joel from his performance as the Emcee in the 1972 film starring Liza Minnelli. This is Wilkommen.

[MUSIC - Joel Grey: Wilkommen

Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome

Fremde, étranger, stranger

Glücklich zu sehen, je suis enchanté

Happy to see you

Bleibe, reste, stay

Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome

Alison Stewart: Mark, have you heard from any of the actors that you took pictures of?

Mark Seliger: I've heard from several. Yes, I heard from Joel. I heard from Patti. I heard from Andre. I heard from Barbra. I heard from Liza. I've heard from a lot of people that they were very happy not only from the end results, but they really enjoyed the sessions. I think, to me, that's the greatest compliment is that if they can come in and they can enjoy the moment of the session and the outcome is to their liking, then we've done a pretty good job. I also think Broadway is one of those experience that everybody in the world gravitates towards in New York, and it's just kind of a shared affinity that we all have in terms of the city. It was a celebration of history. It was a celebration of craft and of fantasy.

Alison Stewart: David, what do you understand about Broadway that you didn't at the beginning of this project?

David Haskell: I think it relates to time. I think it's just that probably not all, but if you're lucky as an actor, you have, over the course of your career, performances that stay inside you. They don't ever leave. They have the technical skill to conjure it again, but they also just have it in the first place. I think that sense of past in the present is something that I'll always appreciate.

Alison Stewart: We're going to get one more call in. This is Yasmin calling in from Port Washington. Yasmin, you're on the air.

Yasmin: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hi.

Yasmin: Thank you for taking my call. I love what, I think, Mark just said about New York being the center of this. I'm a born and bred New Yorker. I'm in my 50s, and I remember my parents taking me to when A Chorus Line opened and Chita Rivera in Kiss of the Spider Woman. You guys mentioned Patti LuPone. We saw her in Evita and Anything Goes. I saw Dustin Hoffman in Death of a Salesman. I just remember growing up seeing these tremendous stars. I think that's sort of one of the beauties of being in New York. We all have that in common, that this is just the center of this art form. I feel really lucky to be able to be part of it.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling, Yasmin, and thanks to David Haskell and Mark Seliger. Legends of Broadway and New York Magazine, you can pick it up now. Thank you so for joining us and sharing the process.

Mark Seliger: Thank you.