Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart and now we'll talk about a grand experiment in media and free speech. In the early 1970s when Time War made a deal to put Cable TV infrastructure in, the city required that some channels be allocated for Public Access. A new documentary called Public Access traces the history of Manhattan Cable television. One such channel which became an eclectic collage of homegrown content. This include niche call in shows, countercultural music coverage, personal soapboxes and community interviews as well as your experiences with the modern Internet might suggest an open forum that invited a lot of pornography. Free speech advocates found themselves in a mix with some characters and there's more connective tissue than that between Public Access TVs open platform and today's social media content creators. Let's get into it with the documentary's Director, David Shadrack Smith. David, welcome to All Of It.

David Shadrack Smith: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: I got mixed up in the intro there, but you know what I'm talking about.

David Shadrack Smith: Yes, I know the story.

Alison Stewart: Why were there Public Access requirements built into the implementation of New York City's Cable television infrastructure?

David Shadrack Smith: Let me take you back to a great time in the world. It really grew out of civil rights movement and anti-Vietnam War protests and the whole sense of maybe the media isn't telling us the whole story and there's a lot more out there maybe we need to be more inclusive. There were a group of pretty, pretty leftist thinkers that came out of the alternative media center in New York and they were activists. They said, "Why don't we treat media like a civil right? Everyone should have access, should be able to tell their story. That's what will make our democracy better."

They went and somehow they advocated for channels on this new thing called Cable to be available to anybody on a first come, first serve basis, totally free. I think that was the very idealistic beginnings. From there the story unfolds.

Alison Stewart: How did the new technologies at the time make it possible for this to become a thing?

David Shadrack Smith: Yes, I love the parallels not only to today, but every time a new technology comes online and it opens up spaces and people rush in. In that time, it was really two technologies. It was coaxial Cable which was being laid down literally digging up the streets of New York and in other places around the country.

New York, they did it because the antennas on your-- the rabbit ears on your TV were very unreliable with all the skyscrapers. They were laying these Cables direct into your homes. Then there was the video camera. This was a true revolution, the idea of a personal, portable video camera. In that case, it was the Sony Portapak was the first one and it was a revolution. You see the way so many artists, so many activists, so many people embrace this new technology. I think that was really a media moment where it became possible for anybody to have the means of production.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, if you remember watching some of New York's Public Access programming in the 70s and 80s, we want to hear from you. Were you loyal to any of their programs like TV Party or Emerald City or Rockers TV, Squirt TV? Call in and share your Public Access memories. The number is 212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC. With one of the people that you interviewed, David, at Manhattan Cable Television. He said that you described them as incorrigible kids and that the Cable company was like the parents. Could you explain how the kids ran this operation?

David Shadrack Smith: Yes, the kids just took over. A lot of them came out of that alternative media center and others just straggled in to be behind the scenes at the studio. Yes, they were punk kids. They were very, very engaged in the idea of the whole thing. They wanted media to be available to all. They were activists very often, but they were also like 20 something in New York in the 70s.

That was the vibe, right? It was very underground, very pirate radio feeling, as far as we've heard. Then it was under this umbrella of the Cable company, who looked down. They were literally on the first floor and the Cable company was somewhere up on the 10th floor, I think. They were like, "What is going on down there? Please don't smoke pot in the building." There was uncomfortable relationship between the corporate parents and this freewheeling space that they had to do. They were mandated as part of their charter, their license to run Cable in New York. Yes, it was very much a generational and also a vibe gap.

Alison Stewart: How did the Suits view Cable television? We know how the alternative kids did, but how did the Suits view it?

David Shadrack Smith: Public Access specifically?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

David Shadrack Smith: Yes, I think they-- Charlotte Schiff Jones was who we interviewed in our documentary. She was a vice president at Time Warner. I think she really believed in it. She was and is a free speech advocate. The whole concept of opening up these channels was very much in line with her ideals. I think she also had been very active in the civil rights movement. She was sitting between the Suits who really did look at this thing like a runaway experiment that they had no control over and they were scared of it in a way, I think. They did try at various points to shut it down or control it or try to put some guardrails around the content. Whenever they did try that, someone would sue them, usually Al Goldstein, a notorious Times Square screw magazine, Midnight Blue. He's a whole story unto himself. They would fight back and they would earn the right to be back on the air. It was this dance of, all right, there are going to be no rules. How do we control it? That is so much, I think, the world we live in now too. I think it's very, very parallel.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about the new documentary Public Access, about the rise of community based Cable TV. My guest is Director David Shadrack Smith. Hey, if you want to get in the conversation, if you remember New York's Public Access programming in the 70s or 80s, we want to hear from you. 212-433-9692, 212-433, WNYC. By the way, your document, it's a really good document.

David Shadrack Smith: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: I did want to say. Let's talk to Karen in Brooklyn Heights. Hi, Karen, thanks for calling All Of It.

Karen: Hey, Alison. I, in the late 80s, called in to the Metro astrologer who was on very late at night. I would say like 11:30 maybe at night. I wanted to know something about my next relationship. I was between relationships at the time. She predicted that it would have a "Domicile Quality", those were the words she used. Lo and behold, I met my husband in the building that we were both living in at the time. She was quite accurate.

Alison Stewart: Karen, thank you so much.

David Shadrack Smith: Astrologers, I love sitting here with phone calls coming in and thinking about that was another revolutionary part of Public Access was the call in show, the live call in show. When could you talk to your TV? That was not a thing prior to radio space, but it was on TV. There are just so many great stories of, first of all, kids like myself and many others I've talked to would. It was entertainment to call in these shows and prank them.

Alison Stewart: [Laughs] Don't do that. No pranking.

David Shadrack Smith: No, no, no, no pranking, times have changed. There's a story we tell in the film about Groove Tube, which was a great, great call in show, one of my favorites. He put out a, "Call me if you're single and you're looking for a match." Sure enough, Adrian, later, Adrian Grünberg called in and they were married for the rest of his life.

Alison Stewart: We're getting a lot of calls about Robin Byrd.

David Shadrack Smith: Yes.

Alison Stewart: We got. "I was a brand New Yorker when one of my roommates who had grown up in Manhattan introduced me to the one and only Robin Byrd. Her show became regular viewing in our apartment." Let's talk to Jane and Carol Gardens. Hi, Jane. Thanks for calling, All Of It.

Jane: Hey, there. Thanks for having me on. Yes, I'm a native New Yorker and our sex ed education was definitely all about having one hand on the remote control, watching Robin Byrd, and just hoping that our parents didn't walk in the room. If they did, that's why we were holding the remote. I think, Baby Let Me Bang Your Box was the jingle that we all came to school singing for years to come.

Alison Stewart: [Laughs] Thanks for calling. Let's talk about Robin Byrd while we're here.

David Shadrack Smith: Sure.

Alison Stewart: First of all, what was Channel J? She was on Channel J. Let's start there.

David Shadrack Smith: Like your caller, I grew up in Brooklyn as well, actually. Probably not far away. Interestingly, we didn't have Cable, I would have to watch it at my grandmother's, who was on the Upper west side. I would get sent there on Friday nights. I would sneak when they were asleep into the library and watch all of the shows. There were tons of the, 1-800, Call Me Escort Ads and Midnight Blue, which is, we feature a lot in our film and of course, Robin Byrd, who I think is probably the best known personality to emerge from Public Access. Yes, it was to go take you back to that time.

You couldn't see that stuff anywhere else. It just was not on your phone, or maybe it was under someone's mattress, or you had to go to Times Square, which was pretty scary and dangerous. As a kid, so many kids, that first shock of stumbling on Channel J, which you asked about. Channel J was an offshoot of Channel C, which was the original Public Access channel. It was their effort to-- it was hard to make Public Access. You had to be really committed. That wasn't everybody's cup of tea and there were some costs involved. Either you had to rent the studio or by videotapes and things like that.

They wanted to try to make it more sustainable for producers and they opened Channel J, which could be ad supported. You could sell ads against your show. That really is where the sex shows went wild. The advertising revenue was substantial. I think people made a lot of money. Robin Byrd, Al Goldstein certainly did pretty, pretty well. Yes, it was an uncomfortable fit again, or an evolution of this medium, which was supposed to be open and free but so many things, money comes in and takes over and changes it just a little bit. The sex shows really figured out this advertising model.

They would buy blocks and blocks of TV and they would just re air things and run lots of ads. For a kid growing up, it was like, "Okay, this is a really window into another world." It was definitely an education.

Alison Stewart: The name of the documentary is Public Access. I'm speaking to its Director, David Shadrack Smith. We'll take more of your calls and we'll have more with David after a quick break. This is All Of It. You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Director David Shadrack Smith. He is talking about his new documentary, Public Access, about the rise of community based Cable TV. Let's talk to Norma on line five calling in from Manhattan. Hey, Norma, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Norma: Hi. I was a Public Access producer with QPTV in Queens. I got involved because as an artist, I was really interested in the technology and they offered to train us free. Just come in and learn how to use the equipment. I thought, wow, this is a real opportunity, and so I did. I learned it, I became a producer, I got my certification, and I made a documentary called Round and Round the Muller Carousel. It was so interesting to do that because I learned so much about the history of old carousels. Actually, it's a carousel that I believe is still in operation in Forest Park, Queens and the documentary was about the restoration of the horses.

Alison Stewart: Norma, thank you so much for calling in. That's interesting that she learned about television by just showing up.

David Shadrack Smith: Totally. That was part of the mission was to make cameras available to train people, to teach them about this new technology. I really think it's beautiful. When you think back on it that people rushed in, they found that they wanted to express themselves, make documentaries about things that were of local community interest for their communities.

That birth of accessibility and returning that gift by doing something that meant something to your community, I think was the beauty of it. We talk a lot about the sex, we talk a lot about the crazy stuff but there were so many great people, artists, musicians, just true believers in just community, local community interfacing communication that had shows. I really do think it lived up to that promise along with all the other stuff that happened. Thank you, Norma. I never dared have a show myself.

Alison Stewart: Early on, MCTV aired footage that photographer Bob Gruen took of his child's birth. Let's listen to him talk a little bit about why he was excited to share this deeply intimate moment on this is from Public Access.

Bob Gruen: A funny thing about the video machine is that it's somehow sensitive to emotions. When things get exciting, the machine gets excited. As the baby came out, the doctor holds the baby up and then the video glitched. To me, it was the most amazing thing I had ever seen. I had no problem putting that on the Cable TV, because this was the meaning of life. People were shocked. "Oh, my God, that's horrible. Is this guy, all his blood and everything." Some people thought that was obscene or wrong, and I'm like, "Why not? That's where you come from."

Alison Stewart: How do the ideas about what's personal and private versus what's shareable and human factor into what Public Access was?

David Shadrack Smith: Yes, I love that story so much and it was one that we didn't look for it. We were talking to Bob Gruen, interviewing Bob Gruen, mostly about his rock and roll photography and the show that he had on Public Access that was really just filming bands and putting them on TV. We'd heard rumors that someone had filmed a live birth on Public Access. That's interesting.

That's new territory and sure enough, it was Bob Gruen. He generously shared the story and the footage, which he'd kept, thank goodness. It was one of those moments where you stumble on things when you're doing primary archival research and talking to the producers that we hadn't expected. Yes, thinking back on your last call or two, it's hard to imagine now we all have a camera in our pocket and we're all sharing ourselves constantly, or some of us are. Some of the more bold of us are. That was very new. I think this combination of a technology that felt more intimate and closer to you and this idea that you could express yourself, it did start to turn toward the self in an interesting way, which I think artists embraced. I think lots of people just wanted to see themselves on TV.

This was very new that you could see yourself and you had that technology. I do think it was that missing link between Mainstream TV and the world we live in now, the selfie world we live in now. People just wanted to express themselves and show their lives.

Alison Stewart: Gay TV, LGBTQ TV, took huge leaps with Public Access. You had Emerald City was for the gay community. Also, it really, when the AIDS crisis hit, people were able to get information. Let's listen to another bit from the documentary Public Access. This is Richard Berkowitz. Let's listen to him talk about how he got involved with Public Access and we can talk about it on the other side.

Richard Berkowitz: At the dawn of age, Michael Callen and I wrote the landmark pamphlet, How to Have Sex in an Epidemic. We had to get the word out to the community about safe sex. I said to myself, call them a letter. I bet this big slut like to talk about safe sex.

Dr. Joseph Sonnabend: Tonight, Berkowitz and Callen's new book.

Richard Berkowitz: Lou, was the perfect outlet to try to wake gay man up.

Lou Maletta: You go into several avenues and areas of sex here. You talk about fist and all the rest of these wonderful things that we all hold near and dear to our heart. Tell us how you would engage in these things differently now to how you did it before.

Alison Stewart: It's really interesting. What did Berkowitz's work demonstrate about the value of Public Access?

David Shadrack Smith: To me, this is the heart of the story. To me, the proof of the experiment, why it was so valuable at its time and on from there. Gay TV was brand new thing. Emerald City was the first gay show in the world that could speak from gays to gays and that was amazing and growing out of that, Lou Maletta took it. He was a leather daddy who had an advertising business and he took it a little further and got more into the porny territory. He had a vision of what gay television could be and really wanted to build a network. That's all going along and then AIDS comes into the world.

To his credit, he really recognizes the platform he has to speak directly to the community that needed to hear this information. Richard Berkowitz was a young activist and they'd written a book about a pamphlet that was very important at the time, How to Have Sex in an Epidemic. It was a great marriage of, I have the platform and you have the information and this is a life and death story. The power of that medium, I think, really comes out in that story. That you could save lives and they did.

Alison Stewart: We got a text here that says, "Glenn O'Brien's TV Party." What was special about TV Party?

David Shadrack Smith: Oh, man, TV Party, that's one of my favorite shows. TV Party and I was a little too young to see it live. For me, I'm living it through the archives. That was the underground, that was downtown New York comes into your living room in the best possible way. It's like that cool New York that we all, if you were lucky enough to live through it, great. Otherwise, it lives in our epic imaginations. Glenn O'Brien was a downtown impresario and a writer, and he teamed up with Chris Stein from Blondie, and they were co-hosts on a show called TV Party and they had everybody cool came through there. Debbie Harry bouncing on a pogo stick. You have Jean-Michel Basquiat working the Chiron machine in the back room typing poetry live on TV. It's just like, "What was going on?"

It was directed by a just recently deceased Amos Poe, who was a no-wave Director, downtown Director. It was all the cool kids in one place and they just let it fly. It was chaos. Watching a whole show was hard, but we've chosen some moments for you so you get the feeling. It was truly, I think, one of that perfect archives of the New York in our imagination.

Alison Stewart: There's so much more to discuss. You should go see the documentary Public Access about the rise of community based Cable TV. My guest has been Director David Shadrack Smith. Thank you so much for making this film.

David Shadrack Smith: Oh, it's amazing to be here. Hometown local radio. This is just great. Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: That's All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

Copyright © 2026 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of programming is the audio record.