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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. Last week, Taffy Brodesser-Akner joined me before a live audience at the New York Public Library for our Get Lit with All Of It book club event. We talked about her latest novel, Long Island Compromise. She took questions from the audience. We also heard a special live performance from Suzanne Vega. It was a sold-out event, but coming up later on the show, we will hear excerpts from it. It's not too early to start planning for our January Get Lit conversation, we are reading Lazarus Man by author Richard Price. When it came out, the Slate headline read, "The Great New York Novelist Is Back" It's a story of a group of people who find themselves displaced after their tenement building collapses in East Harlem. We will be in conversation with Richard Price at the Stavros Niarchos branch of the New York Public Library, that is happening on Tuesday, January 28th. For more information and tickets, head to wnyc.org/getlit. Now that is in the future. Now let's get to today's show, starting with Broadway superstar, Megan Hilty.

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In the film, and now Broadway show, Death Becomes Her, two-time Oscar-named and 40-something actor Madeline Ashford is about to make a deal. She puts up a ton of money, and in return, she will be graced with the fountain of youth. Madeline quickly drinks down the potion, and then she's given a warning about what she just drank, to which Madeline replies, "Now a warning?!"

It is one of the very funny, smart, campy, and wicked lines that my guest, Megan Hilty, delivers as Madeline Ashton. When we first meet her, she is at the height of her popularity, starring in a musical called Me! Me! Me!, but to cling to that fame, Madeline employs a roster of plastic surgeons and dieticians. Here's Madeline singing a bit about it from the track, For The Gaze.

[musical track plays]

Madeline: Why is a girl like me

Sitting here in this chair, combing her hair

And painting her face in the chase

To stay young and beautiful?

Is it the fact that I'm attracted

To each kernel of external validation

In a world that keeps me insecure

To sell me needless crap?

Or is it something new?

Would you believe it to be true

That I'd do it all for you?

For that glimmer in your eye?

For your gaze?

I'd trade my fortune for the chance to be

Enveloped in that special way you glance at me

I feel like I can have it all the moment that I fall into that gaze

The look of recognition in your eyes...

Alison Stewart: When she learns that her oldest frenemy, an aspiring writer named Helen, is engaged to a reconstructive surgeon, well, she has to have him. After all, it helps to have a plastic surgeon on call, but soon the procedures can only accomplish so much, and Madeline finds herself sidelined by Hollywood and hated by her husband. When a mysterious woman offers her a potion promising eternal youth, Madeline jumps at the chance, but as one of the songs says, don't say I didn't warn you.

Death Becomes Her is getting rave reviews, words like "laugh," "filled," and "musical comedy magic." It's running now at the Lunt-Fontanne Theatre, and I am joined now by Megan Hilty. It is really nice to see you.

Megan Hilty: Oh, my goodness, I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: All right. I'm going to start with sort of the essay question, and then we'll get into the show.

Megan Hilty: Okay.

Alison Stewart: This year there have been all of this media and content about women's bodies and about aging. We have the substance. We have your show. Your show makes reference to Sunset Boulevard about an aging actress. Why do you think this conversation is emerging again and again in the culture?

Megan Hilty: Well, and I would even add that maybe Gypsy's even part of that, too, because, I mean, Mama Rose is dealing with the fact that she'll never be a star. She's trying to-- Because she's kind of "aged out of that." Unfortunately, it's very, very topical. What I love is that it provides-- If you look at what's happening on Broadway this season, it's all women, 40 and above, just like all of these amazing women taking the stage. Yes, a lot of these shows are tackling that very topical issue of fearing losing relevancy after 40.

Alison Stewart: Did you watch the original movie?

Megan Hilty: Oh, I am a huge fan of the movie. It's one of my all-time favorite films. I was asked several years ago, I want to say it was about 10 years ago, if there was one movie that I could change into a Broadway musical, I immediately said Death Becomes Her, and rattled off my laundry list of reasons why I thought it would be a really great candidate for a musical. Here we are talking about it today.

Alison Stewart: What were one or two of your reasons?

Megan Hilty: Well, the biggest reason is that it is so over the top and campy that, of course, we break out into song. It's one of those the few stories where you don't even question that we break out into these huge musical numbers because it drives the storyline even further.

Alison Stewart: It's set in current times, not in the '90s.

Megan Hilty: Ish, ish, ish.

Alison Stewart: Yes, that's true.

Megan Hilty: It's a nebulous time. Even though we--

Alison Stewart: Because there are many cell phones.

Megan Hilty: Yes, and we do make very current references to like Venmo and things like that. Overall, it wants to live in a timeless zone.

Alison Stewart: When we first meet Madeline, where is she in her career, in her life?

Megan Hilty: Oh, she's in the prime of her career, and--

Alison Stewart: She thinks so anyway. [laughs]

Megan Hilty: If you ask her, she's in her-- If you ask Madeline, what this show is about, everything's going great until her old friend, Helen, shows up and ruins everything.

Alison Stewart: She has this wild, campy voice. First of all, how did you decide on that voice?

Megan Hilty: I don't know that I ever, like decided on her voice. I will say that I draw on three pre-existing characters to make this Madeline, that is Valerie Cherish from The Comeback.

Alison Stewart: Ahh, so good.

Megan Hilty: Lucille Bluth, from the matriarch of Arrested Development, and Miss Piggy. I thought my Madeleine draws on those three fabulous women, with a little bit of myself sprinkled in there. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: How would Madeleine Ashton say, "It's nice to meet you. It's nice to be on WNYC"?

Megan Hilty: "Oh, you're so lucky to meet me today, and how wonderful that you got me on my day off to be with you." That's what Madeline would say. [laughs]

Yes. I don't know. I think what I really want-- The choice that I did make is that I wanted her to have two very distinctive sounds from when she's confident and comfortable and feeling fabulous, and when she's at her low point and not feeling herself.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Megan Hilty: I did want there to be two distinct sounds to those parts of her life.

Alison Stewart: In the show, when she's in the blue outfit, and she's got sort of the mom hair, that's the low point.

Megan Hilty: It sits a little lower. It's a little sharper. There isn't a grandness to her voice. She isn't like floating on top of everything. It's more defeated, and a little more biting.

Alison Stewart: Yes, the show has so many one-liners and zingers in the show. Do you have a couple of favorites?

Megan Hilty: Oh, there's one. It's so unfortunate because all of my favorites are things I would never say in my real life. There's One right in the beginning where I say to Helen, "I have an idea," and she says, "I'm all ears," and I say, "and I begged you to have them pinned back years ago." I just think those are so-- It's so rude.

Alison Stewart: So rude. [laughs]

Megan Hilty: It's so delightfully rude that. I have so many of them. Marco Pennette wrote this incredible script. I cannot believe I get to play this character. I don't even know how many jokes. If you were to sit down and, like, tally all the laugh lines, you just couldn't. There's too many.

Alison Stewart: Well, we were talking before we started saying, like, you might need to go see this two or three times if you can figure out how to, but it's sold out.

Megan Hilty: People are-- People are coming back and over and over again, and dressing up as Madeline and Helen.

Alison Stewart: No.

Megan Hilty: Oh, it's fabulous. Yes, no, it's great. It is one of those shows, as you said, like, you can come back because I guarantee, while you were laughing at something, you missed another joke.

Alison Stewart: Totally.

Megan Hilty: There will be another-- That's the magic of live theater, too, like, you're not going to see the same performance twice.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Megan Hilty. She's starring as Madeline Ashton, the fading star who makes a deal to retain her beauty at a cost, in the new Broadway adaptation of Death Becomes Her. Your co-star is Jennifer Simard.

Megan Hilty: Yes.

Alison Stewart: She plays Helen, who's sort of uptight and sort of normal. Sort of normal in the first half of the film, undergoes a major transformation. How would you describe the Act 1 relationship between Madeline and Helen?

Megan Hilty: Oh, goodness. It drives the whole show. These two women and their constant need to one up each other for some reason. I believe, underneath it, it's because there's something about the other person that they love and admire so much that they want to impress each other. That's where the one upping, there has to be that love underneath, as funny and as broad, and there has to be some element of truth at the bottom of it. I truly believe that there's something about the other character that they wish that they had, which is why they feel like they need to dominate the other one constantly. Does that make sense?

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Megan Hilty: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Sure. I hope it does. To me, I'm holding onto something.

Megan Hilty: How wonderful that I get to play opposite the brilliant Jennifer Simard. Her performance in the show is iconic. I'm just so thrilled that I get to like play this comedic volleyball with her every single day. It's thrilling.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's hear a little bit of a duet of the two of you that you share. This is Alive Forever.

[musical track plays]

Helen: Mad, I forgive you, can we forget it?

'Cause I don't have the core strength

To hold on to grudges anymore

You make me crazy

Madeline: Thanks for the praise

Helen: You're a narcissist

Madeline: Well, more sadistic

Helen: But here's my cold heart, on display

Madeline: Oh, I've got something to say

Helen: I know we're toxic

Madeline: Yes, we're toxic

Helen: But as the clocks tick, I realize

Madeline: As time goes by

Madeline & Helen: I'd rather be miserable with you and I won't go away

I'll pinch your ass

I'll help you stay alive forever

Alive even after the world of regard is gone

When you need your face redrawn

You don't have to fear

I'll be here, now until forever

It would be healthier to leave you

And no longer be friends

'Cause our hatred escalated into murder

But I don't have the heart to grieve you

So can we start again?

Helen: Look at you

Madeline: Look at you

Helen: No, look at you

Madeline: Okay, let's look at me

Madeline & Helen: We can face eternity

Just you and me, both damned to be

Alive, forever...

Alison Stewart: So interesting these two big voices. Tell me a little bit about actually the rehearsal process, how you would decide who would take the lead, who wouldn't take the lead, how you would mesh your voices?

Megan Hilty: Right. It's something that I love tracking throughout the course of a show because, like, when I did Wicked, it really made sense for me that she started as a high soprano and got more grounded as the show went along. What I love about this is that sometimes you can't tell who's on top and who's bottom. It's not like one's on top and one's on bottom the whole time. We weave in and out. I feel like that's a really excellent symbol of where they are in their relationship. They're like, sometimes one is on top and one's on the bottom, and then we switch it up. It's a pretty even balance throughout.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Megan Hilty. She's starring as Madeline Ashton in Death Becomes Her. We'll have more with Megan after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Megan Hilty. She's starring as Madeline Ashton, the fading star who makes a deal to retain her beauty at a cost. It's in the new Broadway musical called Death Becomes Her. Okay, I saw that Meryl Streep sent you flowers.

Megan Hilty: I know.

Alison Stewart: It said, "Break a leg or I'll break it for you."

Megan Hilty: Yes. It's so perfect. It's so perfect. I almost hit the floor when I got them in my dressing room. She didn't just send me flowers. She sent me dried flowers. Just like Madeline Ashton, just like the show, they're dead, but they're alive forever, and I will keep them forever, along with this lovely little note from her.

Alison Stewart: Well, we were joking before that everybody gets a little something different out of the show, and the people behind me were like, oh, I didn't know she was in The Devil Wears Prada. [laughs] It happened to Jordan, who went to see the show in the same thing. Your bio in the Playbill, it's Meryl Streep's bio.

Megan Hilty: It's Meryl Streep's Wikipedia page. If you go to her Wikipedia page, it's all just pulled from that page. That's why I put at the end, because I knew some people wouldn't get it. I put at the end, well, it's not a fake Instagram handle because I created the account, and it's just pictures of Meryl Streep with her iconic lines from all of her many, many iconic films. There's literally no way I could have done any of those things. People keep calling Playbill and saying, oh, you messed up. You put Meryl Streep's bio in Megan's place, and they're like, no, that's the joke. They're like, oh, oh, that's funny. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: I like that you committed to the joke.

Megan Hilty: It was a big swing. It was a big swing. I hope, oh, goodness, I hope she knows that this is just done with respect. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: She's a big fan. She's a big fan of WNYC, so she'll get it. She definitely gets it. A big thing about the film is obviously there were all of the incredible special effects, and you have to re-gauge them on stage, and I don't want give too much away, but what was the most difficult trick or effect that you wanted to nail that you really knew you had to get right?

Megan Hilty: Oh, man. Well, I know that everybody's coming to see how we twist Madeline's neck and how we do the fall down the stairs and how we get the hole in the lady, in Helen. I think what they've done is pretty remarkable. What we learned in our Chicago run, our out-of-town run, is that audiences really loved it when we really leaned into the campy versions. Anything that was too slick did not go over very well. That's just not the tone of our show. We are big and we are broad, and we're doing silly in the smartest way. I also don't want to give anything away, but the fall down the stairs is iconic, like how Christopher Gattelli imagined that. It's just perfect.

What I will say is that we did try it with a stunt person where you watch someone actually fall down the stairs. I have to tell you, when you're in the room, like live, in-person, it's one thing to see it on film, and you can figure out which view you want people to absorb that, like how you want people to see that. When you are in person watching someone fall down the stairs, it is horrific, and with pretty quickly they're like that is not our show. That's not it. I'm really, really thrilled with what they landed on, pun intended.

Alison Stewart: I was thinking about you before the show starts, and I thought to myself, I bet she's having such a good time, and she knows that the people in the audience are about to laugh their butts off.

Megan Hilty: Oh, yes, and what a privilege, right, to be a part of something that, to be a part of a show where our only requirement of the audience is to check your door or check your day and your troubles at the door, and just laugh for two and a half hours. We've created a safe space for people to laugh every day. I feel like it is such a privilege to be a part of that in any capacity.

Alison Stewart: What were you worried about when you were doing your out-of-town shows? You mentioned falling down the stairs. I was like, uh-uh, not going to do that. What other things were challenging that you had to work around?

Megan Hilty: Ultimately, because it's really dangerous what we're doing. If anybody saw what's happening backstage, we're literally making magic. I was a little concerned about everyone's safety, myself included. We are in just the best hands. Our stage management-- My goodness, Rachel Sterner, our incredible stage manager. I'm not really joking when I say I started out joking, but now it's true. I'm not doing another show without her. She put up Harry Potter. I feel like we are in such good hands with her and her stage management team, that I went into it concerned, but like quickly that went away because of how amazing she and her team--[crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: What do the stage managers do so people understand?

Megan Hilty: Oh, gosh. Our stage manager controls everything. They're the ones that everything is kind of filtered through, and they literally manage it.

Alison Stewart: From the costumes to the--

Megan Hilty: Rachel Sterner is calling the show every night. She's calling all of the cues. She's literally keeping us safe every performance. There are some performances where we do have to stop, and I trust. There are some times where something goes wrong but were not cued to stop the show. I told her this the other day. I was like, I know that I'm safe to keep going because I trust that she wouldn't let me stay out there if it wasn't safe.

Alison Stewart: That's interesting.

Megan Hilty: That's the thing is that, like, we have a pretty strong cue to exit the stage because there are so many huge elements that could--

Alison Stewart: Go wrong.

Megan Hilty: Yes. I don't feel unsafe at all because she's in control.

Alison Stewart: I want to read you something that Ryan Reynolds posted online. This is interesting because it's a response that he shouldn't have been paired with Andrew Garfield on the Actors on Actors series. He wrote, "Dramatic work is difficult. And we're also meant to see it's difficult, which is one of the reasons it feels visceral and effective. Comedy is also very difficult, but it has an added dimension in that it's meant to look and feel effortless. You intentionally hide the stitching and unstitching." What do you think of that statement?

Megan Hilty: I couldn't agree more. I would actually double down on the fact that comedy is way harder than the dramatic stuff. I truly do. Because comedy, there's an element of science and math and magic. It's the same thing with direction. If it's directed really well, you're not even thinking about the director. Same thing with comedy. If it works really well, you should think that it's effortless, when in actuality, there is so much work, meticulous work that goes into crafting each moment. It has to stay fresh in eight shows a week.

You can't get stale. You have to do the same thing. It's the same script every night, but you can't turn into a robot. You cannot do it the same every night, and that's where the science comes in. There's different elements that you have to weigh in the moment, and you're receiving lines differently every night, so your response is different every night. You need to land the laugh, and it has to look like just as easy as breathing. It is incredibly difficult to do comedy, but you should never, ever feel that.

Alison Stewart: What happens with the laugh doesn't land.

Megan Hilty: We got to keep going.

Alison Stewart: Keep going?

Megan Hilty: We got to keep going. Luckily, we have another show where we can figure it out.

Alison Stewart: Yes. That's interesting. Your costumes are wild in this show. How does a costume help an actor?

Megan Hilty: It's everything. Not everything, but it's so much of Madeline. It tells you exactly where she is in her life. I go from wearing every sequin and feather known that you can find on the planet.

Alison Stewart: Leopard print-out thing.

Megan Hilty: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Oh, it's so good.

Megan Hilty: Yes, to a blue suit. It says everything, which blue suits are fabulous.

Alison Stewart: No, I hear what you're saying.

Megan Hilty: Sequins and feathers, it is not. It tells so much of where that character is in their life, and then she gets back to her sequins and rhinestones. Paul Tazewell, who did the Wicked movie, also did our costumes.

Alison Stewart: Oh, I didn't know that was.

Megan Hilty: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Megan Hilty: He is well-versed in how to do grand and fabulous, and telling these beautiful stories and showing these characters through what they're wearing.

Alison Stewart: There's a hilarious joke about Wicked in your show.

Megan Hilty: Oh, it's not in the script. I add that every night.

Alison Stewart: You just add that?

Megan Hilty: Yes. The wedding is sponsored by whatever company I want to make up every night, and you just happen to be there. I've been doing the Wicked movie just while it is open, like it has just opened.

Alison Stewart: Oh, gosh. It's so funny.

Megan Hilty: Yes. No, so it's every night. Sometimes it's Skittles "Taste The Rainbow" or Charmin "Enjoy the Go". It's anything I want to do. What can you imagine a wedding being sponsored by Charmin toilet paper. That was another one of Chris Gattelli's, like, yummy little moments. He was like, I don't want the stage management to know what you're going say. I don't want anybody on stage to know what you're going to say. You come up with something new every night.

I have been doing Wicked for the past. I retired it on Sunday. I'm going to move on.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Megan Hilty: Yes. I might go back just because it gets such a great. We're both Universal. It's our parent company.

Alison Stewart: Of course, you played Glinda.

Megan Hilty: I played Glinda. There's a whole lot of layers here.

Alison Stewart: Have you seen the movie yet?

Megan Hilty: I haven't yet. They've been so-- I know. Don't judge me.

Alison Stewart: No. That's just a—oh, I'm so excited for you to get to see it.

Megan Hilty: I know, and Universal has been so lovely in offering all of these special screenings for anybody who's been a part of building the Wicked empire. I've been working every day off, and I have two small children. When I'm not working, and when they're not at school, my time is real, real precious with them. My personal time has not-- I happily don't have much right now, but I will, and I cannot wait to see it. I've heard nothing but incredible things.

Alison Stewart: Well, I'm going to get you out of here because it's your day off, by the way. I really appreciate you coming to the Studios.

Megan Hilty: I'm so thrilled to be here. I am. I love your show. I think you're just incredible, so thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: Megan Hilty. She's starring as Madeline Ashton, the fading star who makes a deal to become something different. The new Broadway adaptation of Death Becomes Her at Lunt-Fontanne Theatre. Thank you so much.

Megan Hilty: Thank you.