Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Here are some of the ice cream flavors you can expect to try at Malai in Brooklyn Gardens, excuse me, in Carroll Gardens. Masala Chai , Orange Fennel, Coffee Cardamom, and of course their most popular ice cream Rose with Cinnamon Roasted Almonds. You can thank Malai founder and CEO Pooja Bavishi.

In 2015, she switched careers. Pooja went from an MBA to the ice cream business. Pooja is a first generation Indian American and she wanted to create ice cream reminiscent of the South Asian flavors that she grew up with like her parents' Chai. Pooja later opened a brick and mortar store in Carroll Gardens at 269 Smith Street. If you've been, you've seen how popular it is and the business is growing with a second location in DC and a third opening in Philly this spring.

Pooja has written a new cookbook with ice cream recipes as well as other sweet desserts. It's called Malai: Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. I'm happy that she joins us in studio. By the way, Pooja is hosting a ticketed make your own Sundae party and book signing at Malai tomorrow at 6:00 PM, but we're happy to have her here now. Nice to meet you.

Pooja Bavishi: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here.

Alison Stewart: Before we even get into the recipes in the cookbook, I want to talk about your story. You started in 2015. Where were you in your life?

Pooja Bavishi: Honestly, I've always wanted to have my own dessert business my entire life. Because I loved making desserts, I loved the hospitality behind it, I love how happy desserts make people, so I just knew that I wanted my own dessert business. In my second to last semester of business school, it was just like this aha moment that I had when I made ice cream for the very first time. Ice cream obviously has dairy and butter fat and all of those things carry spice really beautifully.

I very naturally flavored these ice creams with Indian spices. It wasn't like this is separation of this is Indian versus not or anything like that. It was just these flavors that I knew and love and I realized that there was an opportunity there.

Alison Stewart: How much did you know about the ice cream business before starting Malai?

Pooja Bavishi: Zero. I didn't know anything about the ice cream business. I'm not culinarily trained. What I did almost immediately after making this decision is I tried to gain as much knowledge as possible, so I went to this Penn State ice cream course. It's this renowned ice cream course at Penn State where you learn the commercial process of ice cream making. There I turned my recipe into a formula, really developed the FDA standard of what ice cream is, learned about milk solids, milk fat, and then started the journey. I finished out business school that last semester and then sold my first scoop three weeks after graduation.

Alison Stewart: Nice. Listeners, have you ever gotten ice cream at Malai in Carroll Gardens? Do you have a favorite flavor? Call or text us now, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Do you have any questions about making ice cream or are you part of Asian diaspora like Pooja, who wants to shout out your favorite South Asian dessert? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or you can hit us up on Instagram @allofitwnyc. What does Malai mean?

Pooja Bavishi: Malai literally means cream. Then, figuratively, can mean the best of something, the cream of the crop. I just also always love the way that the word sounded. It's like very soft and feels like ice cream. That's why I wanted to name it Malai.

Alison Stewart: What was really difficult about getting Malai the store off the ground?

Pooja Bavishi: I think the most difficult thing about having an ice cream business in general is something really obvious, but often overlooked, which is that it's frozen. It's really hard to keep things at temperature and to-- Ice cream can go from being super rock hard solid, unscoopable, too hard for anything to melting in a matter of minutes. It's that balance that we always have to make sure that the customers are getting the best possible experience and getting it at that right temperature where the flavor is going to melt into your mouth and you get all of the good stuff of ice cream.

Alison Stewart: Now, you grew up in North Carolina, right?

Pooja Bavishi: I did, yes.

Alison Stewart: Your parents are first generation?

Pooja Bavishi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: You're first generation, I'd say. Why did your parents first come to the country?

Pooja Bavishi: My dad came for schooling. Actually, he came for grad school. Then my mom came over after they got married.

Alison Stewart: When you were growing up, how did South Asian flavors-- What meaning did they have in your life?

Pooja Bavishi: It wasn't anything that was separated or distinct. It's just the way that I grew up. I grew up South Asian with Indian cultural heritage. It was just always present in really obvious ways and not so obvious ways. When I thought of Malai, and when I thought of the concept of Malai, it wasn't that I wanted to create this Indian ice cream brand, it was really that I wanted to mainstream these flavors.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Pooja Bavishi: I grew up in suburban North Carolina, and these flavors, they were as common to me as anything else. Why aren't they as common to everyone else? I'm as American as anyone else.

Alison Stewart: It's a real bridge, kind of.

Pooja Bavishi: Exactly. I don't want people to think that this is the best Indian ice cream that they've ever had. I want it to be the best ice cream that they've ever had. It's really that like, "If we are becoming these neighborhood local ice cream shops, how do we become a part of people's stories? How do we become a part of people's lives?" It's through mainstreaming these flavors.

Alison Stewart: It's so interesting. I heard about Malai last year when a listener to the show, Nick, whoever you are, thank you so much, when I was out with my illness, he sent me a gift card to Malai.

Pooja Bavishi: No way.

Alison Stewart: I was like, "This is really interesting."

Pooja Bavishi: I love that.

Alison Stewart: I went on over. I was excited. I got on the subway, I went to Brooklyn, and I was blown away by the different flavors.

Pooja Bavishi: I'm so happy to hear that.

Alison Stewart: It was so great.

Pooja Bavishi: Do you remember what you got?

Alison Stewart: I think I got the Rose Cinnamon.

Pooja Bavishi: Yes, that's our most popular.

Alison Stewart: I still have money left on that card, by the way, so I'm headed back out to you. I want to read a line from your book, your cookbook, which is Malai: Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. It says, "A stereotype recognized among Indian subcultures is that of Gujaratis."

Pooja Bavishi: Gujaratis, yes.

Alison Stewart: Thank you, Gujaratis. "They tend to like their food sweet. Indeed, we Gujaratis add sweetness to our lentils and other savory dishes as if there isn't any sweetness in the main meal. We have a piece of--" Goes on and on about how much you like sweetness.

Pooja Bavishi: Sweet.

Alison Stewart: First of all, is that true?

Pooja Bavishi: 100%. It's so funny because my parents and I were having a meal. My mom made this very traditional Gujarati meal just a couple of weeks ago. It was a more savory meal. There wasn't sweetness in the dal. We all just took a piece of jaggery, which is like a South Asian sugar. It comes in block form. It's a little soft. It's a really interesting texture.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Pooja Bavishi: We just put it on our plates. It's just something that we needed because we needed that sweetness to be there. Yes, my sweet tooth is pretty bold.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, have you ever gotten ice cream at Malai in Carroll Gardens? Do you have a favorite flavor? Do you have any questions about making ice cream at home? You can call or text us now at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Pooja Bavishi. She's the founder and CEO of Malai, an ice cream shop. We're talking about her new cookbook, Malai: Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. You write that your gateway into Malai was your memories of Chai as a kid. You really identify with Chai. Why is that so foundational for you?

Pooja Bavishi: I think for me it was the ritual aspect of it. I don't remember a single morning of my childhood without Chai. It was always there, but it wasn't even just the flavor of it. I grew up drinking Chai. My mom would dilute the Chai with a little bit of milk. I would have Chai every morning, first of all, and I loved the smell of it. It was just really this intoxicating smell of spices, sugar, and milkiness. I just love the smell of it. It really felt like home to me, but really, there's so many aspects of Chai.

First of all, it's my mom making it every morning. No one but my mom makes the Chai. It's the spice blend. The masala is my mom's family's recipe. It's something that my grandmother created. My aunt continues on. The exact ratio of spice blend is what we use in our ice cream even. It's what my mom uses.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask how do you get that specific flavor from what you remember to your ice cream?

Pooja Bavishi: It's because of the spice blend and the exact ratios. What's so interesting about Masala Chai, the actual drink is that what I remember most about growing up is this tea kettle that my mom used when I was a child but also still uses today. It's a stainless steel tea kettle. In the morning, I would be upstairs getting ready and I would hear it clank. It would just be this clank of a tea kettle. She would finish making Chai and she would close it.

To me, that was just a signal that the day has begun. There was just so many of these sensory moments of Chai that just shaped my childhood. It was just always, always present. That's why it just means so much to me. It really started this journey for me.

Alison Stewart: We've got some good texts here. "Love Malai. Been a follower since the Brooklyn Flea days. Recommend nearly every flavor." This one says, "Yes. The gulab jamun cake-

Pooja Bavishi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: -are my faves, but every flavor is exquisite. Literally, the best ice cream." The next one said, "We made a special trip to Carroll Gardens to try the, hope I pronounced this right, gulab jamun cake."

Pooja Bavishi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: "I was suspicious of how that would work, but it was delicious."

Pooja Bavishi: Oh, I'm so glad.

Alison Stewart: Tell us a little more about this cake.

Pooja Bavishi: The gulab jamun cake, so gulab jamun is a very traditional Indian dessert. It's also one of the most popular Indian desserts here in the States. It's basically a milk powder based cardamom donut that is fried and then soaked in a saffron and rose water syrup. It's so, so good. It's so decadent.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that sounds so good.

Pooja Bavishi: We turned it into a cake by creating these saffron syrup soaked cakes. Then we take our signature Rose with Cinnamon Roasted Almonds ice cream, and sandwich it in between these cakes. It has that this feeling of frozen gulab jamun. One of the things, because that cake is so popular, I wanted to always create it into an ice cream flavor, so I did it in the cookbook. I did it for the cookbook. That's one of the flavors that we're actually selling at Malai throughout now, especially for the cookbook launch.

Today's Pub Day, but even beyond. We take that saffron, rosewater, cardamom flavorings and actually put pieces of the donut into the ice cream, so now there's two ways to get this traditional Indian dessert at Malai in frozen form.

Alison Stewart: All right. You're telling me that I should go and use the rest of my gift card this weekend?

Pooja Bavishi: Correct, as soon as possible.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk a little bit about equipment. You recommend that everyone have a microplane grater. You write in the book that you would take your microplane grater. You would take it to a deserted island?

Pooja Bavishi: I would, yes. I feel strongly about that.

Alison Stewart: All right. Tell me about about your microplane grater.

Pooja Bavishi: It's the best way to get a spice grated without pulling out your spice grinder or a mortal and pestle. You're able to grate nutmeg or even cinnamon sticks. It's just a really easy way to get some spice flavor. You can zest the lemon and orange, get some flavor that way. Also, it's good for savory uses, which is not applicable at all here, but I use it to grate my garlic. It's just a good multipurpose tool.

Alison Stewart: You also lease an ice cream maker, that's very important. We're talking about ice cream. What should people know if they want to invest in an ice cream maker but really aren't sure where to get started?

Pooja Bavishi: Yes, absolutely. I started Malai on my KitchenAid attachment. When we're talking about not the most fancy ice cream maker, just what we have, that's what I started Malai on. It was this freezer bowl attachment to an existing piece of equipment that I had. I really recommend that. There's a little bit of preparation involved there. There's a lot of ice cream makers where you have to freeze the bowl overnight so you can get that really creamy frozen ice cream. There's some preparation involved, but there's also a lot of recipes in the book, I just want to point out that don't require an ice cream maker, or you can buy the ice cream and make the ice cream dessert from it.

I wanted to make it as accessible as possible. There are certainly recipes in the book where you will need an ice cream maker and you can get whatever variety you want. I think that even a kitchen bowl attachment or a freezer bowl, anything like that is totally fine.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Pooja Bavishi. She is the founder and CEO of Malai, an ice cream shop in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn. We're speaking to her about her new cookbook Pub today, Malai: Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. We're taking your calls and texts. Have you ever gotten ice cream Malai? What did you get? Do you have any questions about making this at home, give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call us, join us on air, or text to us at that number. You've got several recipes. You have a recipe in for Sweet Milk ice cream?

Pooja Bavishi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: That's basically the base-

Pooja Bavishi: Correct.

Alison Stewart: -at Malai. First of all, what does good ice cream base need to ultimately provide good ice cream?

Pooja Bavishi: I'm going to geek out a little bit here.

Alison Stewart: All right, do it.

Pooja Bavishi: What you want with ice cream, when you're tasting ice cream is that you want a total and complete flavor arc. You want to be able to taste the dairy. If there's flavoring in Sweet Milk, what you're tasting is really the milk, the dairy, but even in flavored ice cream, you want to be able to taste the dairy. The first thing that you want to taste is the flavor and Sweet Milk is the dairy. The second thing is the dairy so that continues for the Sweet Milk and it's going to round out the flavor.

After that you want to get some new one. We use a lot of cream cheese based ice creams. In that, you get because of that saltiness and that little bit of tang that's in there, it's going to go back to the flavor note. For Rose ice cream, it'll go back to the rose, or for Orange Fennel, it'll go back to the Orange Fennel. You'll start there, you'll kind of in the middle, it'll be there.

Then because of the liquid sugar that we have there, whether that's honey or maple syrup, you want it to end on that. It's going to feel like a cooked sugar note almost caramelly. That's what you want to end the flavor arc on. The reason for that is that you'll have a complete flavor. It won't feel like the flavor just you take a bite of ice cream, and you know how sometimes it just dissipates in your mouth, you don't want that. You want to feel really satisfied and at the end of that, with that caramel note, you will.

Alison Stewart: I love that story, the story arc of ice cream. It's amazing. This says, "I love that Malai does soft serve. Most newer ice creams don't do it and the flavors at Malai are so interesting." Why did you decide to do soft serve?

Pooja Bavishi: Because I love soft serve. I think soft serve is so incredibly satisfying and it's really easy to flavor it the way we want to flavor it. Right now we have Cherry Blossom, Cardamom, Lemon Ginger, it's great.

Alison Stewart: This is great. This text says, "A few years ago, Malai started offering soft serve during the warmer months. One made with dairy and one dairy free. My husband has celiac disease and a dairy allergy and I'm lactose intolerant. When we discovered the soft serve, which was hands down the best dairy free soft serve ever. It almost made my husband cry."

Pooja Bavishi: Oh, my goodness.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about those kind of options. You have vegan options as well?

Pooja Bavishi: We do, yes. We have dairy free options always available at Malai.

Alison Stewart: When you're thinking about cooking, I guess you wouldn't cook with ice cream. When you're thinking about making recipes with ice cream, what's important to keep in mind when you're already dealing with the ice cream and adding something else on?

Pooja Bavishi: I think the most important thing is just to get good ingredients. I talk about that in the pantry staple section in the cookbook, getting good spices. I list a couple of companies where you can get really, really good spices. They're not sitting around in warehouses for a really long time. They're still really potent. That will make or break the ice cream experience. Really, getting good ingredients is what's going to make your ice cream delicious. Yeah.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask where to get rose water?

Pooja Bavishi: Our rose water we actually get from the Indian grocery store. It has a sweetness to it. There's so many brands of rose water. You can pick the one that you love most. When you're talking about whole spices, Burlap & Barrel, Diaspora Co., Curio Spice Company, all of these spice companies really are sourcing really ethically and are delivering amazing, amazing spices.

Alison Stewart: What has been the biggest challenge now that you're expanding? Sometimes when places are small, they stay small. They're great. When they expand, sometimes something goes wrong.

Pooja Bavishi: I think that we're experiencing the same growing pains that a lot of businesses go through, but it's very exciting. What we're trying to do with Malai in mainstreaming these flavors and getting them to as many people as possible, we have to grow. To achieve that goal, we have to grow. It's very exciting to see the reception that we have in places outside. We've been in New York now for seven years. I've had the company for 10. I love seeing people remembering us from Smorgasborg and Brooklyn Flea days, when it was just me in a tent. It's really exciting to see how many people are excited about these flavors outside of New York now as well.

Alison Stewart: What's your favorite flavor? Come on. I have to ask you.

Pooja Bavishi: I'm not going to.

Alison Stewart: Oh, come on. What's your second favorite flavor?

Pooja Bavishi: I will say this, I love the combination of our Orange Fennel and our Coffee Cardamom together. Both of the recipes are in the cookbook as well. There's something about both the orange and coffee and the fennel and cardamom that is just incredible. Some chocolate sauce on top and you have yourself an A-plus dessert.

Alison Stewart: The name of the cookbook is Malai: Frozen Desserts Inspired by South Asian Flavors. My guest is Pooja Bhavishi. There's a special going on. Check it out. She's having a sundae and book party. It's tomorrow. Have a great book party, by the way.

Pooja Bavishi: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

For The Brian Lehrer Show: “WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJU 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are New York and New Jersey Public Radio.”