Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. All week long, we're talking about the sights and sounds of summer. Yesterday, we talked about music. Tomorrow, we'll talk about summer movies. On Thursday, we'll talk about the art you can see right around the city. Today, we're going to be talking about something you can take with you on your travels: podcasts.

Listeners, we're crowdsourcing your podcast recommendations for the summer. What's a podcast that you've really enjoyed lately? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can join us on air or you can text to us at that number. Joining us with her recommendations is Lauren Passell. She writes about podcasts for LifeHacker. She's the curator of Podcast The Newsletter and the founder of Tink Media and a friend of the show. Nice to see you, Lauren.

Lauren Passell: So good to see you, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Let's get right to your recommendations. A lot of them have to do with money, by the way. Let's talk about Debt Heads. Here's the premise. It's based on a true story. Friends Jamie and Rachel are in debt. Jamie started talking about her debt publicly on TikTok; Rachel did not. The two of them use their podcast to investigate personal finance and myths around personal responsibility. What's the tone of this podcast?

Lauren Passell: Money makes me a little uncomfortable. It has to be really, really good for me to want to talk about it, if it has to do with money. The tone is absolutely what sets this show apart. It is fun. It breaks the mold. It's outside the cookie-cutter. It's Jamie Feldman and Rachel Webster. Rachel comes from narrative documentary video. I feel like they're kind of telling the story.

Sometimes when people come from other kinds of storytelling, it either works or doesn't work. They're not following the rules in a good way or a bad way. I feel like this worked really well this time. They are telling the story about Jamie's finances the way they want to tell the story. I asked them to tell me about their show in 10 words or less. They said, "True crime investigation into the murder of our bank accounts." It's funny. It's melodic. It sounds melodic. They use different segments. It keeps you on your toes. There's always a surprising audio element. They bring in voice notes and voice memos.

In one episode, Jamie goes to T.J. Maxx with her mother and her grandmother to talk about shopping. It's just so surprising and unexpected and a true delight.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a clip. Here's one of the hosts, Jamie, talking about her origin stories. This is from the podcast Debt Heads.

Jamie: Void. Wait, it's not a void.

Alison Stewart: Oh, we're having crazy, crazy technical difficulties on this end. By the way, I want to tell you, I listened to the first episode and it made me listen to the second and the third as well, Lauren.

Lauren Passell: You have no idea how happy I am to hear that. It reminds me of things that were being made more years ago, like older audio. Anyway, that's one of my favorite things about it.

Alison Stewart: The next one is what we spend. You describe this as very smart, sort of a money diary. People tell us what they spend in a week. What did you learn from listening to this podcast?

Lauren Passell: It stresses me out a little bit, honestly, to listen to this because people get so honest. I think you're learning what real people are going through in this country, people that are very, very different than you. I was just re-listening to an episode of a woman that has 10 children and is an author, and she's a single mom. Really hearing the nitty-gritty of how she pays for peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, I think it really--

We love driving by people's houses and looking in windows. What is it really like to be someone else? It's not just about money. It is, but it is about really understanding the struggles. This is why Debt Heads is so important right now. They're really trying to figure out why is money a problem for so many people. This show is getting at that, too. We're really trying to figure out the why. These shows work nicely together because it's two different ways to look at the same problem.

Alison Stewart: I thought it was interesting that they addressed how people respond to people who say they're in debt on Debt Heads. They have some people who say, "Oh, I feel you, girl," and other people who are like, "Really? Really didn't know you had a credit card debt?" It was interesting how they responded to people on the show.

Lauren Passell: Yes. Debt Heads, I think it's interesting because Jamie was an influencer. She was open about her life in every single way before this happened. Money was the one thing that she hadn't been honest about. I think that's interesting about a lot of influencers. Money is the last thing that people get honest about. It's the most vulnerable thing.

Alison Stewart: We are doing a crowdsourcing of your podcast recommendations for this summer. What's a podcast that you've really enjoyed lately, one you plan to take with you on your travels this summer? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in, you can join us on air, or you can text to us at that number as well. We're discussing summer podcasts with Lauren Passell, Tink Media founder and curator of Podcast The Newsletter.

This one made me laugh. It's called We're Doing The Wiz. It's Radiotopia's podcast. It premiered at Tribeca, we should say, and it's what happened at a predominantly white performing arts school, one to The Wiz. They bust in some Black students. This sounds like it could go terribly wrong, but it doesn't.

Lauren Passell: Oh, yes. Ian Coss is the producer. He's made a lot of really, really amazing things. He's actually bringing in, he's going back to his old classmates who were there with him. What I really like about it is, the story is actually about how the school is busing in Black students to this predominantly white school, as you said. What happens? The question is, who should be telling what kind of story?

What I really love is how Ian starts the story with his co-host Sakina, who was bused in and says, "How do you think we should tell this story?" That is the first episode. What an interesting way to go back and say, "Wait a second, we have to tell the story the right way once and for all. Let's fix it." It's also really funny and heartwarming. Anything about kids putting on, let's be honest, any sort of theatrical performance is going to be wildly amusing. This brings in so much about race and culture. It's just fascinating on so many different levels, and it's made in such a creative way.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a clip. Fingers crossed. This is from We're Doing The Wiz.

Shakina: I remember overhearing because the people would talk about what they were going to dress up as. People were saying that they're going to come in as certain characters.

Ian Coss: What historical character did you pick?

Speaker 5: I chose D.W. Griffith, the director and writer of the movie Birth of a Nation.

Ian Coss: The Birth of a Nation, in case you don't know, is a groundbreaking early film. It is also terribly, viciously racist.

Speaker 5: Then there were other people who chose other, arguably more offensive people to be.

Ian Coss: Without naming names, there was a Klan robe involved.

Speaker 5: I've honestly blocked this out, but I believe someone wore white.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my goodness.

Lauren Passell: There's some important context for this. It was an assignment to dress up as important figures from The Gilded Age. It wasn't like a Halloween costume, but still like, yikes, yikes, yikes. You just cringe listening to that.

Alison Stewart: All right. I'm going to ask you a question and we'll take a break and you can think about it. Someone texted in, "What's a good podcast for families?" Lauren, you think about that. We're going to take a quick break. This is All Of It.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Lauren Passell. She's Tink Media founder and the curator of Podcast The Newsletters. She's given us some great podcasts to listen to during these summer months. I asked you a question, Lauren, before the break. What's a good podcast for families? Have you had time to think about it?

Lauren Passell: Oh, absolutely. Every family is different. I am going to be on a road trip with my family and we're going to be listening to Judge John Hodgman and this podcast called Text Me Back. It's Lindy West's chat podcast. However, if you have kids, if there's any younger people in your family, there's a podcast called Ologies, which is hosted by someone named Alie Ward. She interviews all sorts of ologists, scientists-

Alison Stewart: Oh, cool.

Lauren Passell: -and it's so fun. She even has a kid-friendly version of it, but it's already pretty kid-friendly. She's so curious. It's a beautiful delight. There's also a radio lab for kids that is good enough for adults, obviously. It's beautiful.

Alison Stewart: Terrestrials?

Lauren Passell: Yes, Terrestrials. Then Secretly Incredibly Fascinating is a podcast hosted by Alex Schmidt and his friend Katie Goldin. They look at things that you would think would be boring and make them not boring. It's amazing. Like accordions and computer mice and road atlases. Then really quick, this is pretty new. There's something called The Simpsons Taught Me Everything, and it's on The Cracked feed. I feel like there's a lot of families that might enjoy. It goes down rabbit holes of everything that The Simpsons has been teaching families throughout the years. I feel like a lot of families could bond over that.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a couple of calls. Let's talk to Laurie, calling in from Ridge, New York. Hi, Laurie. Thank you so much for taking the time to call All Of It.

Laurie: Oh, thank you for the opportunity. I just wanted to mention a podcast that Monica Lewinsky is doing. It's called Reclaiming. She's very articulate. She's a great interviewer. It has to do with people overcoming a reputation, as she had to do. The first episode, she tells her own personal story, which I found so moving and interesting, and I just highly recommend it.

Alison Stewart: Thanks, Laurie. Let's talk to Gerard from West New York, New Jersey. Hey, Gerard. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Gerard: Hi, Alison. Hi, Lauren. I don't have one specific podcast, but it's an idea that I found and it's really helped me out is if there's a television show that you like, chances are there's a podcast, whether it's produced by the people who make the show or just people who love the show like you. Google that and you'll find like I found-- I started it with Succession back when that was on, and I loved that one. Now I'm listening to a companion podcast. It's not officially from Peacock, but for the Natasha Lyonne, Poker Face. It's just a show that I love. You feel like you're in community with other people watching the show, and it's a really nice way to extend it. I almost look forward to the podcast as much as I do to the show every week.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for calling in. Yes, it's so interesting, Lauren. So many TV shows, series have podcasts about the show that air the next day. HBO does a lot of this. What purpose do they serve? Are there any that you find better than others?

Lauren Passell: Yes. First of all, the ones that come out the next day, I like it because it really gives that immediate reaction that'd be really hard to capture in other kinds of media. My personal favorite is by The Ringer. It's called The Prestige TV Podcast. I think that's what it's called. They're covering multiple shows at all times. They do immediate reactions.

What I really like about that show is they have a great audience feedback. They'll set up an email address for every single show. They're usually very funny email addresses with very niche references to the show. People write in. People get really, really involved in these comments. That's my recommendation. I go to that, basically. Whatever they're covering also dictates what I'll watch, because I'm like, "I know it's going to be good."

Alison Stewart: We got a text here that says, "I've been listening to this podcast All Vampires Are Gay. If you're a Buffy fanatic like I was and still am, you'll probably enjoy it. It's kind of like cotton candy. There's no significant nutritional value for the brain, but it's a fun treat." This one says, "I love the podcast Act Like a Mother. It's about actresses and actors who are moms, interviews. It's a great window into the industry and also being a mom." This says, "Great new podcast all about sepsis as the leading cause of death in hospitals. It's called The Sepsis Spectrum." Thanks for sharing.

I want to ask you about a program from New Hampshire Public Radio, which is known for their serious audio documentaries. They have a new one and it's a little wild. Tell us about it.

Lauren Passell: Are you talking about Sgt. Tibbs?

Alison Stewart: I am talking about Sgt. Tibbs.

Lauren Passell: Are you going to make me cry? The Final Days of Sgt. Tibbs is about a 19-year-old Maine Coon, who went missing in his home in Manchester, New Hampshire.

Alison Stewart: A Maine Coon cat, I should say.

Lauren Passell: Sorry, yes. His owner Rose thought that Sgt. Tibbs died. It turns out one of the neighbors kind of took the cat in and then, spoiler alert, Sgt. Tibbs dies. This is a beautifully reported piece. Todd, the host, is kind of going back to the final days to find out what really happened, because the woman who brought in the cat and her daughter, their story doesn't really add up. They have an explanation for why they did it. This leads to protests in the neighborhood. This is truly a story. Rose leads a protest outside Debbie's business. It turns into a wild story about the neighborhood. At the end of the day, it's about the people in the town end up looking terrible. It's kind of juicy, but also just super sad.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a clip from it. This is from the The Final Days of Sgt. Tibbs.

Protesters: This store owner stole her cat. Hey, what's that? This store owner stole her cat.

Todd: Last summer, there was a protest in Manchester, New Hampshire. A few people holding signs, chanting outside of the business. It was a pretty strange scene. The target of the protest, a woman is there, too, just watching, twirling her keys. Maybe you think there's a lot to protest these days, maybe you don't, but this is not a protest you've seen on the news before. This protest is about someone's pet.

Protester: If the Internet didn't teach you anything, you don't [bleeps] with people's cats.

Todd: For months now, I've been trying to figure out what led to this moment, how a 19-year-old cat named Sgt. Tibbs became the source of such controversy, such anger.

Alison Stewart: While we're on the subject of public radio, Lauren Passell, I have on the phone WNYC's Nancy Solomon. I want to recommend her recent WNYC podcast. It's called Dead End: The Rise and Fall of Gold Bar Bob Menendez. Nancy, give us the elevator pitch for your podcast.

Nancy Solomon: Well, it's the second season of Dead End. The first season was about a murder, an unsolved murder, that led to me uncovering a political corruption scheme in Camden, New Jersey. The new season is a three-part series about Bob Menendez. It's got love, it's got spies, it's got bribery and corruption. I mean, really, everyone knows the top line about the Menendez story. Oh, he was involved in a bribery scheme and there were gold bars and lots of cash. I wanted to really understand more about what that was about, but also why. Why would somebody who had reached the pinnacle of American political power risk so much?

It's just a fascinating story, I think, about-- He gets involved with his now wife, they start dating, and within weeks, they're plotting to make a deal with Egyptian spies and generals for an arms sale and a halal meat contract. That's what the story is about. I'd say it's nutritional and fun at the same time.

Alison Stewart: Nancy, thank you so much for calling in. That's called Dead End: The Rise and Fall of Gold Bar Bob Menendez. That sounds pretty good. Lauren, before you go, I wanted to ask you about Good Hang. There are a lot of celebrity podcasts. Some are better than others. Amy Poehler started a podcast called Good Hang. I happen to really like this show. I'm curious why it's on your list.

Lauren Passell: Well, I'm not a big interview fan and I'm not a big celebrity podcast fan.

Alison Stewart: Me neither, but I like this one.

Lauren Passell: I'm daring everyone to try it. I think it's because it feels more casual. It doesn't feel like these people are on a press junket, her guests. They're the most authentic conversations. It's also edited in an interesting way where we kind of see more of an authentic side of Amy Poehler. There's some mistakes in there that make it more lovable, and she just gets great guests. I'm underlining with my mind so many of the smart things that she's having. She's interviewing people that she has genuine connection with, and I think that really shows through. The editing is just-- it feels different than any other celebrity podcast I've ever listened to.

Alison Stewart: That's called Good Hang. All right. Dealer's choice, what's the last one you want to recommend in our last minute?

Lauren Passell: Oh, my goodness. Let's do-- Oh, my gosh. Let's do Proxy.

Alison Stewart: Give me the elevator pitch.

Lauren Passell: Yowei Shaw was the host of Invisibilia years ago, and she's back with this. She's acting as a proxy for people that have problems. Imagine you have a problem and you can't untangle it by yourself. Yowei's going to introduce you to someone who has gone through the similar problem and help them explain it to you.

Alison Stewart: It's so good. Lauren Passell, you always give great recommendations for podcasts. Thank you for being with us.

Lauren Passell: Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: That is All Of It for today. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you. I don't appreciate the technical difficulties, but we'll get those settled. We'll see you here tomorrow.