Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. This has been a big year for Grammy Award winner Ledisi. She opened the Super Bowl in her hometown of New Orleans with a rendition of Lift Every Voice, aka the National Black Anthem. She released two albums and is currently on tour. One of the albums is called For Dinah, and it pays homage to Dinah Washington, who died in 1963 at the age of only 39. She is Ledisi's all-time favorite vocalist and her inspiration.

Ledisi channels the late singer through renditions of popular songs like What a Difference a Day Makes. Oh, I just get excited when I say that. What a Difference a Day Makes and This Bitter Earth. The album features collaborations with heavy hitters like Christian McBride and Gregory Porter. Today, we're joined by Ledisi, who will be previewing a bit of her songs for us in the studio. Nice to meet you.

Ledisi: Yes. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: In the past, you've worked on albums with Nina Simone, now with Diana Washington. What do you like about immersing yourself fully into an artist's work?

Ledisi: Well, I love documenting history and reminding the newer generation of history. I just know I get it from somewhere, not just my mother and all the music she listened-- These were artists she listened to, so I gravitated towards it. I just want to remind us of that. Dinah, really, we hear her voice a lot in film and television, but we'd never hear her name. To me, she should be spoken of like Aretha all the time, but we're always calling on her for pivotal moments in film and television. That's why I was like, "No, no, no. Say her name loud and clear. Here's the songs." If I can be a vessel, a platform for that, I'm going to do it.

Alison Stewart: Do you remember the first time you heard Dinah Washington?

Ledisi: Absolutely. I heard Teach Me Tonight because I had to study vocalists and jazz band, and I wanted to learn Teach Me Tonight. I was wondering who else recorded it besides Al Jarreau. That took me down a whole thing of Dinah. When I heard her version, I said, "Ooh, this is sassy and fun." Then I was like, "She looks like me, she feels like me." She gave me permission to just be myself and not worry about what other people think of how I approach a song.

Alison Stewart: When you think about her technique, what made her voice special?

Ledisi: I call them Dinah-isms. She used "Lord" a lot from her church upbringing.

Alison Stewart: Lord, Lord.

Ledisi: Lord.

[laughter]

Ledisi: It's always there. I love her "mm." It's a little sound you, uh, well, at the end of a phrase.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Ledisi: I love her attack on words, making the words bounce. I call them 3D. They become alive in your ear or in your face or touch on your heart. She means it. Her first note, just like Aretha, the first phrase, what, the first phrase, the first note should get your attention. Those are the little Dinah-isms I love about her voice and her technique.

Alison Stewart: What does that do to the lyrics? That's interesting, all these different techniques she used. What does that do to the lyrics of a song?

Ledisi: It makes it bounce. It makes it relevant. It makes it punch. I want your attention. I want you to get these words. They give them meaning. Her voice gave every word a feeling. That's why I paid attention to lyric. There's a reason the songwriter writes a song, and she knew how to make sure it went across to the listener. That's why she was loved in every genre.

Alison Stewart: You said that Dinah Washington gave you "permission to move freely, create freely, and be a woman in leadership."

Ledisi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: When you think about that, how has that permission affected your career or your decision-making?

Ledisi: Taking risk. Took a lot of risk. Uncertainty of two albums in one year, that's crazy, but my body said, "It's worth it. Do it." I don't know where it's going to go, if it's going to be heard or seen. I'm doing my own music. Why would I stop and tribute Dinah? That's a risk. People want me to sing in certain genres, like R&B, but I'm more than that. I'm from New Orleans. I'm more than that. I'm going to do whatever feels good to me. She did what felt good to her. She loved freely. She invited people in her world freely. She said no and yes, and, "Oh, wow, I can be loud like that. Okay." I say no and yes all the time. It's a lot of no's now because I'm over 50. Like, no, I don't want to do that. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: I hear you. Same way. No is a full sentence.

Ledisi: [laughs] It's joyful. It has glee along with it. I wish she lived longer. I would have loved to see her at 50 do what she did at such a short life. It was amazing reading her book and hearing stories from friends and people that know her and her family.

Alison Stewart: We're speaking with Grammy Award winner Ledisi about her latest project titled For Dinah. She's here with me now for a listening party before accompanying Robert Glasper for three nights at the Blue Note. Three nights with Robert Glasper.

Ledisi: That's a lot. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: That's a lot. I love Robert Glasper. Let's listen to a song from the album For Dinah. It's called You Go To My Head. Tell us what you would like us to listen for in this track.

Ledisi: Oh, I don't know. The simplicity and the complexity of it. It's a hard song. Christian McBride suggested that we do that one, and it's Paul Jackson Jr. on there. We did two takes of that, and that was it.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to You Go To My Head.

[MUSIC - Ledisi feat. Paul Jackson Jr.: You Go To My Head]

You go to my head

And you linger like a haunting refrain

And I find you spinning 'round in my brain

Like the bubbles in a glass of champagne

Oh, you go to my head

Like a sip of sparkling burgundy brew

And I find the very mention of you

Like the kicker in a julep or two

The thrill of the thought

That you might give a thought to my plea, cast a spell over me

Still, I say to myself, "Get a hold of yourself!

Can't you see that it never can be?"

Alison Stewart: Your version's kind of a little mellower. It's a little more acoustic than Dinah's version. What went into adapting the song?

Ledisi: Well, we listened to Paul, and I listened to four different versions. Ella was one of them. Dinah was the first. I felt like with it being acoustic and with a guitar, that it needed to lay back a little bit and not be as in your face as Dinah's version. Christian agreed, and Rex Rideout, who also helped me vocal-produce a lot of things. He said, "Yes, this feels better to just lay back on it." Because the whole album, I'm doing all the Dinah-isms. This one, a little more chill, a glass of wine, and it feels like brown liquor to me. [laughs] Not to put it in an R&B kind of way, but that's how it feels. It feels like you're at a bar or like Frank Sinatra song. It felt that way. I just went with how it felt, having the acoustic guitar.

Alison Stewart: You said Christian McBride helped you out as well as Rex Rideout.

Ledisi: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How did Rex help you achieve your goal? Because that's what a producer's job is.

Ledisi: Christian and Rex and I picked the songs. Christian did the arrangements, and then Rex made sure I was Ledisi throughout and not so much Dinah, because I can easily live in the feeling of Dinah, meaning I will never be like Dinah, but the feeling of Dinah and Dinah-isms. He made sure, "Hey, don't forget, you have your own listeners, too. You're just tributing. You're not trying to be her." I said, "Exactly." He made sure I protected that space where I'm still myself, no matter what, because I can get involved. That's the actor part of me.

Alison Stewart: Oh, tell me more about that.

Ledisi: Well, you can become a person that you study and love and admire so much. You can lose yourself. I didn't want to do that. That's why Rex was there and making sure I was on pitch and all the technical side of singing, because when I get emotional and involved in the song so much, I just leave myself. He reminds me, "Hey, hey, don't forget about you."

Alison Stewart: What was hard or difficult in making this record or a decision that you had to spend a lot of time thinking about?

Ledisi: Going from 32 song selections to only these 8 you hear. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Ledisi: That was hard.

Alison Stewart: That's hard.

Ledisi: Then choosing wisely. The hardest song to record was Caravan. That is a hard song. Like I said, I remained myself. It was really great to have that other ear on the other end. That's why I needed Rex, because Christian was really busy. His arrangements, he just knew how to arrange it, where I can sit and be myself. That's the hardest thing. Sometimes tributes can come off kind of campy and try too hard. This one I didn't want. I wanted to be myself.

Alison Stewart: Why was Caravan hard?

Ledisi: The notes. Just the notes, the pitches, where to go. Ellington is like any classical song. It's the same to me. Like when you're studying Mozart or Bach or anything very intricate, it's the same. All the Ellington tunes are like that. I love the arrangement because, Quincy, I mean, duh, you want to get it right. [laughs] There's legends on there. Christian was like, "All right, Led, you got to get these notes right." I said, "Yes." Then Rex was on me, too. I mean, everyone. I was a horn player on Caravan.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wow.

Ledisi: Yes, it was fun. I imagined myself as a trumpet. That's the only way I got it right.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's listen.

[MUSIC - Ledisi: Caravan]

Night and stars above that shine so bright

The mystery of their fading light

That shines upon our caravan

Sleep upon my shoulder as we creep

Across the sand so I may keep

The memory of our caravan

This is so exciting

You are so inviting

Resting in my arms

As I thrill to the magic charms of you

Alison Stewart: Oh, I hear all the notes.

Ledisi: [laughs] Then you still have to give the Dinah energy on it, too. This technique, man. All my opera training came in good. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: You really had to go back to your opera training for that.

Ledisi: All of that. It sounds so easy, and that's the goal. You want to make it sound effortless, but it's not. It's work.

Alison Stewart: What's an example of opera training that you were using in that song?

Ledisi: The breathing. [sings] Night. The first note. Dinah always gives you that first note, like Aretha, who studied. Same thing. Making sure that first note pops in the crescendo, decrescendo. [hums] Those notes going down. Whoo. I kept skipping over. He's like, "No, no." Piano. [vocalizes]

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Ledisi: Piano in your ear. "No, wrong note." [laughs] Rex is like, "No, no, wrong note." [laughs]

Alison Stewart: "No, no, no. Back again."

Ledisi: You live and you learn.

Alison Stewart: You do live and learn. My guest is Ledisi. We're talking about her album For Dinah. We got a text that says, "Wow. I think she captures Dinah, but has her own sound. It's great. I've been a Dinah fan for over 45 years."

Ledisi: Wow. What a compliment.

Alison Stewart: That is a compliment.

Ledisi: Thank you. Especially a long-time fan. That's a big thing. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Alison Stewart: It said in your personal statement, you wrote, "Her presence was bold. She used her voice and physical presence to be seen in an industry that did not give the spotlight to curvy, chocolate, Black women." You're talking about representation.

Ledisi: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Tell me why that meant something to you.

Ledisi: Those big eyes, that sassy personality, just being just as you are. When I read her book, how she was teased by her band members, all of that related. Not that I was teased by my band members, but I was teased by the world that you're not pretty enough, you're not good enough, you'll never make it in this industry, or that my voice and my talent wasn't enough. How I looked was more important than who I am as a person.

She fought for all of that space, even trying to fit in with the blonde wigs and getting skinnier. I think that took away from her just being herself, trying to fit in the business. I never want that. I want to love myself at every stage, whether I lose weight, gain weight. I've been a size 8, 10, 12, whatever. I want to love me at every stage of my life. My mom always told me how beautiful I was coming up. Then, when I got in the world, the world said something different. I've been fighting that forever, and I'm still succeeding.

Alison Stewart: Well, in this business, on top of it all.

Ledisi: Hello. It'll make you almost quit or get exhausted. I think reading her book and watching her, I felt that. That's why her story resonated with me even more. I think she would have lived longer had she not had that pressure of being a certain way and a certain look and a style. We love her just as her voice and who she was as a person.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. You're the second woman in three days who has expressed this to me. Yaya Bey. She said the same thing.

Ledisi: Wow. I'm so glad I stayed. I've tried to quit several times. My song Alright is about my mom saying it's going to be all right. I'm so happy I continued my work, or I wouldn't have got to Dinah, who I wanted to do before Nina. I've been waiting eight years to put out this Dinah record and get it done. It's finally here, and I have a partnership with it. It's great. I'm glad I stayed.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to another song from the album For Dinah. This is called Bitter Earth. What do you want to tell me about it?

Ledisi: [crosstalk] [laughs] I love this arrangement. Christian came up with it in the studio, and I thought it was crazy. It turned out to be one of my favorites. Especially when he added the strings, I almost jumped out of my own skin. Then it's taken me all over the world, this one song. Elton John called me and was like, "I love this song. I love what you did. I've been watching you, and you're coming into yourself." I'm like, "Oh, my God." [laughs] I never knew this one little song that I've been listening to Dinah sing in every film. Every film, they call her for this. Now I get to do my version and a more relevant version of it. It still has the same heartbeat. I'm very honored. Very honored.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to Bitter Earth.

[MUSIC - Ledisi: This Bitter Earth]

This bitter earth

What fruit it bears

What good is love

That no one shares?

And if my life is like the dust

That hides the glow of a rose

What good am I?

Heaven only knows

Oh, this bitter earth

Can be so cold

Alison Stewart: Got a Lord in there.

Ledisi: I told you I was going to sneak it in there.

[laughter]

Ledisi: Alison said, "Ah, there's the Lord."

Alison Stewart: There's the Lord.

Ledisi: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: My guest is Ledisi. I don't want to leave this conversation without talking about your album, The Crown.

Ledisi: Yes, The Crown.

Alison Stewart: What was it like to work on the two albums in one year?

Ledisi: Wow. Dinah was almost done being thought of. We were working on it in pieces. Then I started writing the R&B album The Crown, just like journaling, like a journal. I'll record for a week and then stop for another month because I was off. I was free. No summer. My summer was clear, Dinah was in the works, and then I just kept going back to each part, like noodling.

Then, the Super Bowl, they said, "I want you to sing at the Super Bowl." Rex said, "Calm down." [laughs] He said, "Calm down. Don't feel pressure to feel like you have to put out another album in time." I did it slowly. The last song was BLKWMN in December that I wrote. Dinah was being mixed, and that was finished. Then we finished everything for The Crown right at Super Bowl. I had a tour set up. Everything went natural. There was nothing forced or even planned. It was just as we went along.

I love that feeling of freedom of creativity in a time where I'm relaxed and having fun. It was the first time I got to do that. I ended up doing two projects at one time, having fun. They sound beautiful. The mix on them, the lyrics, everything was written. I'm just so grateful. I don't care about awards. I care about the quality of the work that I did. Very happy with it.

Alison Stewart: What's going to happen with Robert Glasper for three nights at the Blue Note?

Ledisi: [laughs] During the Pandemic was the first year I put out The Wild Card on my own label, Listen Back Entertainment. We were stuck indoors, so I never had to perform that music. Tonight and tomorrow, I'm going to be performing The Wild Card from 2020. People are excited because they never get to hear those recordings. I won my first Grammy that year in the pandemic. I was online winning my Grammy. Now I get to perform it, all that music that I didn't get to perform. I'm looking forward with Robert. He produced a lot of the songs on that album as well.

Alison Stewart: I've been speaking with Grammy Award winner Ledisi about her latest project titled For Dinah. She'll be at the Blue Note with Robert Glasper for three nights. We're going to go out on What a Difference a Day Makes.

Ledisi: Yes. I love that. Thanks for having me, Alison. It's amazing.

[MUSIC - Ledisi: What a Difference a Day Makes]

What a difference a day made

24 little hours

Brought the sun and the flowers

Mm, where there used to be rain

My yesterday was blue, dear

Today I'm a part of you, dear

My lonely--