Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm grateful that you're here. Coming up on the show today, we'll speak with author Tayari Jones about her new novel Kin. We'll learn about the impact of Jesse Jackson that he had on New York City politics, and we'll speak with Oscar-nominated production designer Fiona Crombie, who recreated the world of Shakespeare for the film Hamnet. That's the plan, so let's get this started with Laurie Anderson. Next Tuesday, Carnegie Hall will host the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert, featuring a lineup including Debbie Harry, Allison Russell, the Philip Glass Ensemble, and the Resistant Revival Chorus, and my next guest, Laurie Anderson. Tibet House US was founded in 1987 at the request of the Dalai Lama to preserve and provide education about Tibetan culture and civilization. It has been stewarded over the years by a number of thinkers and artists, including Philip Glass, who serves as artistic director alongside Laurie. She's here with me now for a preview of the event. It is really nice to see you, Laurie.

Laurie Anderson: Nice to see you, too.

Alison Stewart: When did you first become involved with Tibet House?

Laurie Anderson: Oh, let's see. Probably the early '90s. Actually, I went to Tibet for the first time.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Laurie Anderson: I thought, "Wow, we have a Tibet house here," so I joined up. It's been amazing.

Alison Stewart: What do you remember about Tibet when you first visited?

Laurie Anderson: I remember getting lost. We got lost. Actually, we got lost. To go down, you have to go up. We were at 21,000ft.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my gosh.

Laurie Anderson: That's where planes fly. Tibet is very tall. It's tall. I don't know how the Dalai Lama got over those mountains to escape. Anyway, that was the big drama of the beginning of the exile.

Alison Stewart: When you said, "I got lost," you smiled when you said that.

Laurie Anderson: [laughs] That's a defense mechanism. It was horrible.

Alison Stewart: It was that bad?

Laurie Anderson: Yes. I was walking around talking to other hikers and trekkers, and saying, "Do you think you could put my head back on? The top flipped off." They were like, "Okay." Because they were in the same state of lack of oxygen. [crosstalk] It was a crazy trip, but it was really wonderful because we went to see Lhamo Latso, where supposedly the new Dalai Lama's name is written in code on the surface of the water. I was like, "I got to see that." I didn't see it, but it was a wonderful trip.

Alison Stewart: In your role as the artistic director at Tibet House US, what does that entail?

Laurie Anderson: I really don't deserve this title because I'm along for the ride. It's really a group effort. It's a lot of people looking at who can add an interesting mix of people. It's always a crazy mix, and it's wonderful. It's always kicked off by the monks with their chants, and that's just bone chilling sound like [unintelligible 00:03:46]. It really, really hits you in your spinal cord.

Then from there it's just a wild combination of a lot of different singers and speakers and sometimes comedians. This year it's really going to be amazing. Tenzin Choegyal is a Tibetan singer. He often joins us. We have just maybe 15 or so performers.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Laurie Anderson: It's going to be amazing.

Alison Stewart: I wanted to ask about Tenzin Choegyal. He's one of the few Tibetans who's going to sing at the program. He joined you on one of your previous albums, I believe.

Laurie Anderson: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What was the impetus for making that album?

Laurie Anderson: I just stepped into that at really the very last second. It was something that we did at the Rubin Museum, and it was called Songs from the Bardo. We were reading from the so-called Tibetan Book of the Dead, which really has another title about hearing and hearing in the between. It's the story of the 49-day period of time between lives, although the Tibetans also called this life a bardo, the one that we're in now. That's the bardo between the death bardo's. It's all a bardo, basically.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a little bit from that album.

Speaker: Listen without distraction.

[MUSIC - Songs from the Bardo]

Alison Stewart: It's beautiful to hear.

Laurie Anderson: It is. It's instructions for people who are dying. Very, very specific ones. I found it really crazy and beautiful what to pay attention to.

Alison Stewart: Absolutely. When you listen to that kind of music, Tibetan music, what do you listen to specifically? What really, I don't know, gets you?

Laurie Anderson: I think I'm trying to empty my mind of things, because it has a really interesting tempo. It's all over the place, and it's loose. It's very alive. For being a thing about death, it's very alive. There are wonderful musicians on that. Jesse Smith, Rubin Kodheli, and Shahzad Ismaily. Let's see who else is on that. That's basically it, I think.

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking to musician and multimedia artist Laurie Anderson, who is also artistic director of the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert happening at Carnegie Hall on March 3rd. Why is Carnegie Hall a good place for this concert?

Laurie Anderson: It's weirdly a center that has accepted a lot of people from downtown. I think we wanted to find a place like Central Park. It was really a New York place and would be easy to get, and iconic, and beautiful. It's just always been there. I guess I never ask myself why. It's a great place.

Alison Stewart: I was wondering if the sound of Carnegie Hall has something to do with the concert.

Laurie Anderson: It's in glorious mono, weirdly. I don't know why, but it's made for all kinds of sounds, so the field glass ensemble sounds unbelievable there. It just rocks the rafters. It's a very lively, beautiful place with wonderful sight lines. It feels like a civic center in a way.

Alison Stewart: May I ask, you're a Buddhist?

Laurie Anderson: Yes, I am. I do practice that.

Alison Stewart: When did you first get involved in Buddhism, and why did you get involved?

Laurie Anderson: Oh, okay. I was having trouble concentrating, actually, and a friend said he'd been to this place in Western Massachusetts, and he had that same problem. He came back, and he said, "I came back, and the world was different." He said, "My mind was like a beam. I could move it here, I could move it over there. The chatter had stopped." I was like, "Whoa, I want a mind like a beam." I went there, and it was called IMS.

It was just in the early days. They were just about to celebrate the 50th anniversary of this place when a lot of Americans were coming back from India and going, "What should we do with all of this magic stuff we learned there?" A number of them, Jack Goldstein, Sharon Salzburg, formed the IMS Insight Meditation Society Center. Anyway, I got there, and they said, "Why are you here?" I said, "I'm just-- Have some reasons. They said, "You're here because you're in pain."

I was like, "No, I'm here to get a mind like a beam." They said, "No, you're here because of pain." It went back and forth like that. Pain beam, pain beam. I was like, "Let's not start this with an argument." I realized that I was there because of that. It took me a while to realize that because at this place you get at that time, it was really hardcore. You got up at 4:00, you meditated for a couple of hours, you had some tea, then you meditated for six more hours, then you had the one meal of the day, and then you meditated the rest of the day, and walking and sitting and all this stuff.

What happens is it's based on the fact that when something bad happens to you, and you don't scream, you put it somewhere. That's what you realize when you sit there for 18 hours a day. You realize that you have stored all of this stuff in a very eloquent way. It seems like anger goes right to your jaw. It locks up. It's really painful. Loss goes right to your heart, and jealousy to your liver. It's weird. You're like a library of pain, and you can find that. That's the idea.

Unlike psychoanalysis that uses language and stories to find what happened to explain why you're feeling so horrible, this is the body that tells you that. I trust that more. I think the body has a mind of its own, and you can tap into that in meditation and find some really interesting things. Aside from that it's also, I think a lot of things like Tai chi and yoga are ways that I find really helpful when things are moving too fast, or things are stressful. You realize you have all of the resources and answers already. You don't need to look out there for ways to solve your problems. You find it in yourself.

I'm a control freak, so I love that. Also there's nobody on top telling you what to do. It's not a hierarchy. The lesson is you're the Buddha, and that's a pretty big thing to take in. You are the Buddha. Everyone is. I was like, "This is pretty shocking.' For me, as an artist, it's the same thing in a way. You're not required to believe anything or say anything. You're just required to be aware, open your eyes. Look for yourself for what it is. That's crack for me. That's like, "Wow. Really? I'm in charge? Okay." All right, let's see what happens.

Alison Stewart: Do you still meditate?

Laurie Anderson: I do, yes.

Alison Stewart: How long?

Laurie Anderson: It depends, but usually a pretty good chunk in the morning. An hour or something.

Alison Stewart: A whole hour.

Laurie Anderson: I'm going to do a dark retreat soon. This is something I'm really looking forward to.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that sounds interesting. What is that?

Laurie Anderson: That you go into pitch black room and stay there for a few days by yourself. I haven't done this yet.

Alison Stewart: You have to come backand tell us about it. They need to know.

Laurie Anderson: Unless I start pounding on the door after about an hour. "Get me out of here." I'm really curious to see what happens to light and your memories and your fear and all sorts of stuff.

Alison Stewart: Let me ask you about your artistic direction of this Tibet House USA benefit. You've got Debbie Harry, Allison Russell performing, Maya Hawke, whose grandfather is Robert Thurman, the renowned scholar, Kate Pearson of the B52s, and Jesse Malin. Did you give them guidance?

Laurie Anderson: No. What we do is Tony Shanahan is the music director, and so he'sthe band. Ms. Martha Mooke, who's running the Scorchio Quartet. There's all of these. We also have a choir. There's Illusion Fields also. Actually, the choir is called the Resistance Revival Chorus. They're amazing. We have a lot of these group things going on. It's a really nice way you slide around and play in other people's things, and somebody goes, "Hey, I need somebody to solo here," and somebody just goes, "I'll do it."

Alison Stewart: Me.

Laurie Anderson: It's really super democratic. It's really nice, and the people organizing it are really good at making it all as simple as possible and as much fun as it can be. You get that feeling when you go to it that it's been put together really quickly and with a lot of energy. Of course, this year it's going to be really especially amazing because some of Phil Glass's new work that was scheduled at the Kennedy Center, which he withdrew, is going to be in this. It's a work about Lincoln, and I really can't wait to hear this because it's based on a speech he made in 1838. It was called Lyceum Speech.

It was in response to a burning of a Black man in St. Louis. He was talking to a group of young men about violence. It's really amazing speech. I love that Phil chose that. I think that will be represented in some way. I'm not quite sure with the lyrics for sure, but we're not going to do the whole opera. Or maybe we will. I don't know.

Alison Stewart: Maybe we will.

Laurie Anderson: We'll see what happens at the rehearsal.

Alison Stewart: 2026 is the year of the fire horse.

Laurie Anderson: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Is that going to have significance in your concert?

Laurie Anderson: That's a good suggestion. Thank you. I'm going to pass that on from you to them. It really is a fantastically energetic combination of things, fire and a horse, because in Tibetan, the word for horses is wind, actually. When the Rubin Museum opened, the Tibetan museum in early 2000s, something, they asked a lot of artists to design flags. They are these prayer flags that you hang out as I'd say messages to people who have died or messages to the wind. I did an image of the horse as wind. Then, of course, the wind you hang it up, and it just tatters. It's really beautiful. I have them. I always string up the Tibetan prayer flags wherever I am, actually.

Alison Stewart: That's a good thing.

Laurie Anderson: The Hudson River really rips them apart. I live on the Hudson River, and the wind has just shattered them. They're tatters, but they're beautiful.

Alison Stewart: They're beautiful in the tatters.

Laurie Anderson: They're really beautiful because that's the idea, as the message gets blown away.

Alison Stewart: A bird told me, and by a bird, I mean Elliot Forrest of WQXR. [laughs]

Laurie Anderson: Okay, [unintelligible 00:18:46] call him a bird.

Alison Stewart: Call a bird that's your Saturday night, you're going to be at Nyack along with John Schaefer, and you're also going on tour. It's called the Republic of Love?

Laurie Anderson: Yes, it is.

Alison Stewart: Where's that phrase come from?

Laurie Anderson: I was asked last spring to be part of a festival in Vienna. They said, "We'd like you to give a two-hour talk." The theme of the festival, which is music, dance, literature, visual art, was the rise of fascism in Europe. They asked me to come. I did a number of music things, but also they said, "Can you give a two-hour talk about the relationship of government and love?" I was like, "Wow, I don't often get assignments like that," but I thought, "I'm going to step up and try now."

Where I did it was in ORF, the radio station where Hitler announced his de-annexation of Austria. It was a pretty intense venue, let's say. I just began to think, "Who has talked about government and love?" I gathered a bunch, mostly of American people. It started with Cornel West, who said justice is what love looks like in public. I thought, "Right on." It goes on, then through Bob Dylan, John Cage, Gertrude Stein. A little of Marcus Aurelius, a little of Borges, who said one thing that I really like, which ends this thing, which is censorship, is the mother of metaphor.

I really like that because the number of words that have been cleared out from our federal documents is pretty striking. It includes controversial words like woman, like Native American, like civility. The thing is, if you can't use words, what they represent starts dropping away. I find that blotting out. Then there's also quite a large team of federal workers who not only are blotting out those words, but blotting out how they did it and when they did it.

This is something that I think I'm drawn to thinking about and trying to say things about. I think it's a tricky thing because it's on everybody's minds what's going on-

Alison Stewart: Yes, it is.

Laurie Anderson: -but very hard to find the right words in the right way. That's what Republic of Love is about. Also, in Nyack, there's going to be Martha Mooke and Steve Bernstein. The three of us are going to do I don't know what. We'll see.

Alison Stewart: It'll be fun.

Laurie Anderson: It will really be fun. They're great musicians, so it's a blast playing with them.

Alison Stewart: A very busy schedule ahead. I want to point people to the 39th annual Tibet House US benefit concert at Carnegie Hall on March 3rd. Laurie Anderson, it's always a pleasure to speak with you.

Laurie Anderson: Same. Thank you.