Alison Stewart: This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. A couple of programming notes. On tomorrow's show, we'll be remembering President Jimmy Carter, whose funeral is tomorrow. I'll be speaking about his life and legacy with Jonathan Alter, the author of the biography His Very Best, Jimmy Carter, A Life. On Friday, we'll be speaking with actor Fernanda Torres. She just won a Golden Globe for her role in the film I'm Still Here. It's a true story about a woman whose husband has disappeared during during Brazil's military dictatorship. Fernanda Torres joins us. That's in the future. Now let's get this hour started.

This month, we're speaking to musicians who are nominated at this year's Grammys and we continue now with one of New York's own. Lakecia Benjamin is an alto saxophonist and composer, but most importantly, she's Washington Height, born and raised. Last year, she released a live reimagined version of her 2023 album, Phoenix.

The is nominated this year in the best jazzed instrumental album and best jazz performance categories. Phoenix Reimagined Live is available everywhere, and Lakecia Benjamin is in the house with her band for a special live performance. Hi, Lakecia.

Lakecia Benjamin: Hey, how you doing, Alison?

Alison Stewart: I'm doing well. What are you going to play for us first?

Lakecia Benjamin: We're going to start off with the opening track for the album Train, which is a dedication to John Coltrane.

Alison Stewart: Love it. Let's hear it.

Lakecia Benjamin: All right, Here we go.

[music: Train - Lakecia Benjamin]

Alison Stewart: That was Lakecia Benjamin. Her album Phoenix Reimagined Live is nominated for two Grammys in Best Jazz Instrumental album and Best Jazz Performance. She's here in Studio 5 performing live. Let's get this out of the way. That was quite a band you got performing. Do you give everybody a shout out? Tell us who we're listening to.

Lakecia Benjamin: Oh, absolutely. That's Melody Ray on vocals, Oscar Perez on piano, Elias Bailey on the bass, and Anwar Marshall on the drums.

Alison Stewart: And you on saxophone.

Lakecia Benjamin: That's right.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned that song was a dedication to John Coltrane. When was the first time you heard John Coltrane's music?

Lakecia Benjamin: The first time I heard John Coltrane's music is after I heard Alice Coltrane.

Alison Stewart: Right on.

Lakecia Benjamin: So I heard her album and I saw him on it and just started going through the discography and realized, wow, what a giant.

Alison Stewart: What was it about him that appealed to you as a young musician?

Lakecia Benjamin: Just his dedication to his music, his dedication to his spirituality, his dedication to playing music and giving back to humanity. I feel like his purpose was to be a healer, to be a spiritual leader, and that's what I strive to do.

Alison Stewart: When you were creating that song, what vibe were you going for?

Lakecia Benjamin: I was looking for a little bit of the fire, a little bit of the burnout, but a little bit of that urgency that's in a lot of us to get our dreams done, to get our goals done, and try to accomplish things.

Alison Stewart: If you listen to that record on live versus the studio version of Phoenix, there are some differences, most notably the tempo. How did you think about reimagining it?

Lakecia Benjamin: I tried to think of a way, like the first album was like a perfect example of how the song should be played, everything. The second album was a way for me to show how I relate to my audience, how I relate to the people, my personal relationship with my fans, and what our daily life is going around the world, traveling, and how we're engaging people.

Alison Stewart: On this album, you have a great list of collaborators. Will you share with us who else plays on the album?

Lakecia Benjamin: Okay, so for Phoenix, we had Angela Davis, Patrice Rushing, Sonya Sanchez, Georgia Ann Mojo, Diane Reeves, and Wayne Shorter. For Phoenix Reimagined, we had the great Randy Brecker, Jeff Taine Watts, and John Schofield.

Alison Stewart: What are you looking for in a collaborator?

Lakecia Benjamin: I'm looking for someone that is bringing so much to the table and so much of who they are that I can write a song that they can be featured doing what they do so if your special talent that you have is connecting to people, I want to write something you can connect to. If your talent is expressing yourself-- I'm looking for someone that inspires me by what they've done and we can put that together, and you can help me find my voice.

Alison Stewart: There's been such a history of live albums in jazz music. Which one did you like to listen to that you go back to?

Lakecia Benjamin: Oh, my gosh. I would say Joe Henderson, Live at the Lighthouse.

Alison Stewart: Why is that?

Lakecia Benjamin: I mean, it's such a phenomenal record. Him, Woody Shaw. The energy of that record. I mean, John Coltrane live in Newport. There's so many records that just show that when you listen to an album, you see how amazing an artist is. When you see them in person, you get to feel the soul of them and the passion behind everything, and you can't really beat a live show. New York City is all about live energy.

Alison Stewart: That's interesting. Is that what you were trying to do with your record?

Lakecia Benjamin: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: You released the original Phoenix in 2023. Initially, what was the version of that? What was the intention of that record?

Lakecia Benjamin: I had been in a car accident where I almost died.

Alison Stewart: I heard about this. Okay, wait a minute. Let's get into it.

Lakecia Benjamin: Well, I was driving from Ohio back to New York on I-80 and I crashed off into the mountains. Long story short, I broke three ribs, I broke my jaw, I fractured my scapula and I had a brain bleed. From there, I went from like, how will I stay alive, to now my jaw is broke, how will I play again? To writing this music, Phoenix, and trying to-- For me, it's how do I stay alive? How do I figure out my next steps?

With the pandemic raging like that, for other people, it's how do they survive with losing loved ones? How do people survive with the different down periods we're going through? I was trying to be a living example, if you keep pushing forward, of what could potentially happen.

Alison Stewart: You know that I had brain surgery eight months ago.

Lakecia Benjamin: Whoa.

Alison Stewart: And so I was going through the same. I couldn't speak, I couldn't talk.

Lakecia Benjamin: Right, the therapy and stuff.

Alison Stewart: It's wild what you go through because you go through ups and downs.

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes. It's a lot of uncertainty.

Alison Stewart: Yes. What did you do when you were down? Not that I'm speaking for myself, but what did you do in your downtime, when you were feeling down?

Lakecia Benjamin: I try to stay positive, but luckily I'm goal oriented so I could just try to focus on whatever. I did a lot of prayer. I did a lot of eating. If I can't survive, I can eat this pizza.

Alison Stewart: Spoken like a true New Yorker, right?

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes, totally.

Alison Stewart: Let me ask you about the original album. It was produced by Terry Lynn Carrington, the great. What role model has she been for you?

Lakecia Benjamin: She's a living example of marching on for women's rights, for showing that you may start your career and not be heard or seen, but if you keep persevering and pushing forward, they will see you. When they do see you, how to open the door for someone else coming behind so that you can make a way for somebody like me. She's just a great role model.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Lakecia Benjamin. She's going to perform another song for us. You're going to perform Let Go. Do you want to set that up?

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes. We're doing Let Go to show everybody out there keep going, keep the energy strong. and keep surviving. This is Let Go.

[music: Let Go - Lakecia Benjamin]

Alison Stewart: That was Lakecia Benjamin. Let Go was the name of that song. She's got two nominations for Grammys this year. You got your first saxophone when you were 12?

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes, I did.

Alison Stewart: Who gave it to you?

Lakecia Benjamin: My great grandfather.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Were you interested, or did he just say, like, "I want you to play this?"

Lakecia Benjamin: I was 100% interested. I saw it in the in the band, in the school, hanging from the wall, and I was like, that's for me. It was love from there.

Alison Stewart: What school was it?

Lakecia Benjamin: I went to PS189 and actually-- I mean, it's a long story, but we keep it short.

Alison Stewart: That's okay.

Lakecia Benjamin: They didn't have any more saxophones available, so I asked them, who's playing the saxophone? They told me two girls and a guy. So I found one of the girls and I bartered with her. I gave her four Oreos if she gave me the sax, I gave her the Oreos. She took the Oreos, so I went back with the sax, like, yes, to the band director. He said, "How'd you find that sax?" I said, I made a deal.

Alison Stewart: It's a good deal.

Lakecia Benjamin: Great deal.

Alison Stewart: For Oreos. You were born in Washington Heights? Born and bred. Where did you grow up?

Lakecia Benjamin: I grew up on 186 between Amsterdam and Audubon.

Alison Stewart: How do you think your neighborhood influenced you as an artist?

Lakecia Benjamin: Oh, my God. Jales, merengue, salsa, bachata. You know what I mean? Just the fact that the first music I grew up playing was that. The first music I grew up playing was to keep the block party dancing outside, having a good time, feeling good. When I think of music, I always think about good times, good energy, feeling good, good food. Your music could be the love story to somebody. Somebody could be getting married, meeting the love of their life there. I always try to supply the soundtrack for people.

Alison Stewart: When did it switch over? At some point, it switched over for you, I might be able to do this as a career.

Lakecia Benjamin: After one of those wonderful meninge gigs. I was sitting there eating my rice and beans, and the guy said, thank you, mommy, for playing. I said, thank you. He shook my hand. He said, "You can go home." When he shook my hand, I looked at the floor and I said, oh, you dropped your $20. He said, "No, that's for you." I picked it up, and I looked at it, and it was like, ding.

Alison Stewart: It was your first paying gig.

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes.

Alison Stewart: That's so funny. What would you say was your breakthrough professionally that you were like, this was a really important moment in my career.

Lakecia Benjamin: In terms of being noticed?

Alison Stewart: It could be that, it could be something that happened which sent you on the right path, anywhere. Just something you go back to where you think that moment really made a difference.

Lakecia Benjamin: One moment for me, I guess I had just scored a gig with Stevie Wonder. I was like, oh, my God. And I'm sitting laying on the floor under the piano. He's not playing. He's not there and I'm just playing with my phone. Then he comes in and starts playing the piano, but he doesn't know I'm under the piano.

I'm like, oh, my God. I can't move because I'm under the piano and like this-- I'm going to get fired. He's going to notice there's somebody under the piano. Or maybe he won't hear me. I don't know. He's playing. Finally, I try to sneak out, and he goes, "Did you like that, Lakecia?" I was like, did you know I was there the whole time? "Yes I gave you something so you could start to learn to write your own music."

I was like, okay, great. It did let me know that somebody great thinks maybe I could write music. I was under there for an exceptionally long time.

Alison Stewart: It must have occurred you at some point, you're like, oh, my gosh, he knows I'm here.

Lakecia Benjamin: No, I totally didn't. I just thought--

Alison Stewart: He just doesn't know. He's in here doing his thing.

Lakecia Benjamin: Of course, you can't see that I'm here. It's not happening. I could just creep out of here, and I'm good. He was like, "No. Hey, Lakecia." I was like, oh, boy.

Alison Stewart: Don't try to get one over on Stevie. He knows, right?

[00:16:58] Lakecia Benjamin: I got big feet. He probably heard them.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: I read you said that in 2024, you played 175 shows as a bandleader. That's a huge amount of the year.

Lakecia Benjamin: Amen.

Alison Stewart: How do you keep it together if you have to tour that much?

Lakecia Benjamin: Keep your mind focused and centered, keep your food and diet right. Get some rest and make sure that you really, really love what you're doing.

Alison Stewart: How did you keep your mind Focused? Is it reading, is it meditating, is it--

Lakecia Benjamin: No. When I meditate, I always fall asleep, so that helps if I want to get some sleep but I guess just remembering why I'm doing what I'm doing. What is the goal? I'm having fun doing what I love, playing what I love, and that's a self thing but also, when you see those people's faces out there in the crowd and someone comes up to you and says that this show changed their day, or someone comes up to you all the way in Lithuania and says, "I paid for this ticket two months in advance and I've been waiting."

Or someone says, "I drove from DC up to New York to see you." And you realize that your music is having an impact on people and it's bigger than you are.

Alison Stewart: I'm just going to say this because it's radio. I like your fit.

Lakecia Benjamin: Okay, great.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: You always have good outfits. Seriously, is that a big part of your persona or is that just that you just like bright colors? You're wearing gold lamé and silver lamé and a great necklace?

Lakecia Benjamin: I do like bright colors, but one of the first musicians I ever played with was the great Clark Terry and I came to his show, I think in a sweatsuit or something, and he told me, Lakecia, they see you before they hear you. Make sure they can see your personality and what you have to say. That way it's easier for them to receive it when you play it.

Alison Stewart: Smart advice. 2025, you're going to the Grammys but I'm curious, do you have creative goals for 2025 outside of the awards and the performances?

Lakecia Benjamin: Yes, I'm trying to find a way-- my last three albums have been very jazz based. I'm trying to find a way to keep pushing myself to grow, to keep finding people to collaborate that are at a higher place, but also have seen more than me and I guess know more about all the genres of music. I'm trying to find a way to embrace all the sides of me and make them come out in one album.

Alison Stewart: Well, we wish you luck on that creative goal.

Lakecia Benjamin: Well, thank you.

Alison Stewart: My guest has been Lakecia Benjamin. Her album Phoenix Reimagined Live is nominated for two Grammys. You're going to play us out. What are we going to hear?

Lakecia Benjamin: We are going to play a song on the album called Mercy. On the original it featured Diane Reeves and today it features Melody Ray.

Alison Stewart: All right, here's Lakecia Benjamin.

[music: Mercy - Lakecia Benjamin]