[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Studios in Soho. Thanks for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you're here. I'm especially grateful if you supported WNYC and All Of It during this pledge drive. We can't make this show without you, so thank you. Coming up today, director and choreographer Bill T. Jones joins us along with original company member Arthur Avilés to talk about the restaging of their groundbreaking dance production Still/Here. It turns 30 this year.

Musician Sarah Kinsley is here, fresh off her sold-out performance at Webster Hall. She'll perform live in the WNYC Studio 5. Painter Keith Jackson joins us to talk about his first solo show at the Charles Moffett Gallery. His backstory is fascinating. For most of his adult life, he worked as a building contractor and is largely self-taught as an artist. His work is beautiful and evocative and I'm looking forward to talking with him. That's the plan. Let's get this started with actor Jeff Hiller.

[music]

In the debut episode of the Peabody Award-winning show Somebody Somewhere, Joel and Sam reconnect, sort of. She doesn't remember him from high school.

Sam: Sorry, I just-- I lost my sister six months ago, so I'm a little--

Joel: I know. I'm so sorry about Holly. She was a few years ahead of us, right?

Sam: I'm sorry. I didn't-- I didn't realize that we went to high school together.

Joel: We were in show choir together.

Sam: No, I knew I recognized you.

Joel: No, you didn't.

Sam: I didn't.

Joel: It's all good. A lot of people don't remember me. Hey, if you want to take off for the rest of the day, I'll tell Irma you got diarrhea or something.

Sam: Yes? And it made me cry.

Joel: [laughs] I guess that is kind of weird. I'll think of something. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Sam has come back home to Manhattan, Kansas after her sister died and she's adrift. Joel's a sweet guy and has a salty sense of humor, something that Sam brings out in him. It's one of TV's most enduring friendships. The series finale for Somebody Somewhere will begin on HBO on at 10:30 PM. Joel is played by my next guest, Jeff Hiller. It is so nice to have you in studio.

Jeff Hiller: Thank you. It's so fun to be here.

Alison Stewart: A lot has been written about this show, whether it's melancholy, it's authenticity, it's humor. What do you tell people the show is about?

Jeff Hiller: Oh, I tell people who-- Lots of people say, "I don't know if I can watch it because I don't want to cry," but it's not a cry like a sad cry. It's a cry like a beauty cry. Most of it is funny. You can watch a whole season in less time than it takes to watch Avatar.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Counting down. Yes, you're right. This show really plays on your chemistry with Bridget Everett, who plays Sam. How did you guys meet, you and Bridget?

Jeff Hiller: We were both Downtown people, but she was a very, very famous downtown person, and I was just a worker bee [laughter] as you can be, not making any money in Downtown art. She let me be a guest a couple of times on her show called Our Hit Parade at Joe's Pub at the Public Theater. Then I just auditioned and got it.

Alison Stewart: What was the audition like?

Jeff Hiller: I sent in my tape and then we had a callback, and I noticed they didn't press record on the camera. I thought, "Oh, no, they don't even like me enough to record it." Then the next day they called and they were like, "Oh, we forgot to record the audition. Could you come in again?"

Alison Stewart: Oh, they truly forgot.

Jeff Hiller: They forgot. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Day two. Were you better the second day?

Jeff Hiller: Yes. Oh, I still had it. I guess I proved consistency.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: You know what? Our producer went to Bridget Everett's show last night, and she said that you got a huge, huge standing ovation.

Jeff Hiller: I will say that normally I can walk down the street just fine here in New York City, but last night at the Beacon Theater, when it was all Bridget Everett's fans, I felt like a rock star. Everyone was coming up to me asking for selfies. I felt like, "Oh, this is what it's like to be famous." [laughs]

Alison Stewart: It's good. It's a good thing. What did you and Bridget discuss and decide about Joel and Sam's friendship when you were starting out?

Jeff Hiller: The whole conceit of the show is that so many times in our media we see what makes you fulfilled in life is having romantic love. We wanted to tell this story about finding platonic love and friendship and chosen family. The point of the show is that friendship can be just as beautiful as romantic love and that it's just as important and just not ever really rhapsodized about with rom-coms, friend comms. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Friend comms. Why is Joel so sweet when they meet? He's just so sweet.

Jeff Hiller: I think that's just him. I think he's just a good person, and I think he's-- When they first meet, they're in high school. I think he loves her. I think he's obsessed with her. I think he recognizes her talent that other people don't and respects it. I think that that is really disarming to her because no one else has done that before in her life.

Alison Stewart: Not even her really.

Jeff Hiller: Yes, exactly.

Alison Stewart: Which is what season three is about a little bit.

Jeff Hiller: Yes, totally.

Alison Stewart: Over the course of the three seasons that we see on the show, what would you describe as a real high in their relationship, Joel and Sam, and then what would you describe as a low. something that they've got to deal with?

Jeff Hiller: The high is finding each other. I think that's especially expressed in the song she sings to him at the end of season one called Home, where she says, "You brought me home." The low, the joke answer would be when they both had food poisoning on the phone with each other, but I think also Joel is so afraid because he knows that Sam is so afraid of change, he sometimes withholds information from her, and that really hurts her feelings. That was definitely a low.

In fact, when we shot that in season two, the fight, I really was like, "Are you actually mad at me?" because she's so good. She's such a good actor.

Alison Stewart: How much of you do you bring to Joel? How much does Bridget bring to Sam?

Jeff Hiller: They're alternate universes of us as if Bridget had never left Kansas, maybe that's what Sam would be. For me, the role wasn't written for me, but there are strange coincidences. I also had a vision board that had a Vitamix on it. I had a stress rash in junior high, and they didn't know any of this.

Alison Stewart: Really?

Jeff Hiller: Yes. It's shocking. Christianity is a huge part of my life, and so it was a weird combination of them writing the character to me once I was cast, but also, it was just really bizarrely coincidental life things that they had chosen already.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jeff Hiller. He plays the sweet and I'll also call him saucy Joel on Somebody Somewhere. The show is about to launch its final season on HBO this Sunday. In season three, Joel's about to move in with his partner. We've got a clip from that show where Joel and Sam, they're packing all of Joel's stuff up as he gets ready to move in. Sam discovers a critical choice that Joel has made. Let's listen.

Sam: Have you been saving this for your kids?

Joel: It's okay. We're not going to have kids.

Sam: You're not going to have kids. What are you talking about? You've always wanted kids. Joel, it's right there in the middle of your vision board.

Joel: Yes, well, I did, but things change.

Sam: Things change. Okay. The piano, I guess I can understand, but you have always wanted to be a dad, Joel. That doesn't just go away.

Joel: Yes, I know, but, [chuckles] Sam, it's life. You have to make compromises. Besides, I'm going to be a stepfather now.

Sam: They're 30, and you've never even met them. [chuckles]

Joel: Well, that's a lot to look forward to.

Alison Stewart: What does Joel face? What challenges does he face in season three?

Jeff Hiller: The season is really all about change. It's not only about change that's happening in your life, but also change in what you thought your life would be, too, and understanding where the path has taken you and what's good about that, too.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. I don't want to give too much away, but your partner wants to be with you all the time [laughter] in season three?

Jeff Hiller: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Poor Joel. He's in a difficult position. He doesn't know whether to speak out or stay.

Jeff Hiller: I really understand that conflict, because his partner is not a bad person.

Alison Stewart: Not at all.

Jeff Hiller: He's a great person. He's a wonderful person. That's just one of those things. We think a lot of times at the end of the movie, you kiss and the snow falls and you're happily ever after. That's why there are so few sequels to rom-coms because it's hard work. Being in a relationship is actually hard work. As long as the good times outweigh the bad times, you stick with it, but I think it's nice to see that portrayed, that sometimes you have to be like, "Okay, I think it's annoying when you do this."[laughs]

Alison Stewart: The show received a Peabody Award, and it was described this way on the Peabody's website. "Somebody Somewhere discovers moments of authentic tenderness in the painful absurdities of the human condition. For its combination of pathos and hilarity, we recognize Somebody Somewhere with a Peabody Award." [unintelligible 00:10:06] claps. Why do you think it struck a chord with so many people, the show?

Jeff Hiller: It's very different from anything else out there. I think that's also why so many people don't watch it, too, is that it's very hard to be like, "Oh, it's like this." It's layered and odd compared to the rest of media out there, but I think that that's also what makes it so special, is that it is authentic, it is real, it is specific. Even though it's about these people in the Midwest who are white and middle-aged, you're able to identify with them.

There's something about the specificity of their life that somehow, even as a New Yorker or a whatever, an Italian, [laughs] I don't know why I chose that, it's not like we have a lot of Italian viewers, but you can still identify with these people. I think that's what the gift of the show is, too.

Alison Stewart: How are you feeling now that it's wrapped?

Jeff Hiller: Oh, I'm sad, but I'm also just so grateful because, like I said, it's a really rare show. It's shocking it was made at all. I am so, so grateful. I'm a little sad that nothing will ever be as good as this in my career, at least, but I love that I got to have it.

Alison Stewart: I read somewhere or I heard somewhere, maybe it was on Kimmel, that you originally were supposed to go to NYU.

Jeff Hiller: Yes, for my master's in social work.

Alison Stewart: What happened?

[laughter]

Jeff Hiller: I'm not going to lie to you. It was a little bit of a ruse that I knew all the time. I only lost $500, though. I didn't ever have to take any loans, but I was accepted. It was a reason to move to New York to tell people because I had been working in a shelter for homeless youth. It's a little hard to spin, "I used to help young people find a home, and now I'm going to do improv."

[laughter]

It was a nice little bridge to get there. Then I just told people I was deferring. As I said on Kimmel, I'm in year 24 of my deferment. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: You had some success here. You were in a Broadway show, Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson. Now you played a bunch of roles in that show.

Jeff Hiller: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What do you remember being your favorite, and what was your least favorite role you played?

Jeff Hiller: I played John Quincy Adams, which was very fun. It's so innocent now to think about, but it was modeled off of George W. Bush, [laughs] and he was maybe a little dim. What was my least favorite? I don't know. I think the least favorite part is that show has come under some rightful criticism for not having Native American representation in the artistic room. I think that is the part that I feel not happy about.

Alison Stewart: In doing research on you for this segment, aside from just racking up in my office yesterday, I noticed there's three questions about Jeff Hiller that pops up on Google.

Jeff Hiller: Oh, I know what they are, I think.

Alison Stewart: "Is he married?"

Jeff Hiller: Yes.

Alison Stewart: "How tall is Jeff Hiller?"

Jeff Hiller: 6'5.

Alison Stewart: "Who plays Mr. Whitley on American Horror Story?"

Jeff Hiller: Jeff Hiller.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Wait, but Jeff, are you married? Yes?

Jeff Hiller: I am married to a visual artist. His name is Neil Goldberg.

Alison Stewart: He's not in business.

Jeff Hiller: No, but he is an artist, so he gets it.

Alison Stewart: He gets it. 6'5, what's a pro, and what's a con of being 6'5?

Jeff Hiller: Pro is I can spot people when they're in a crowd. Con is travel, in cars, trains, or planes. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Since you play Mr. Whitley on American Horror Story, that is a creepy character.

Jeff Hiller: Yes, right. He's just a nice little serial killer who's killing gay men to show that killing gay men is wrong. What is wrong with that? Oh, everything? [crosstalk] Everything is wrong with that? [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Oh, everything? How do you play creepy? When you really sit down and like, "Okay, this guy's weird." Somebody actually wrote on Reddit, "Never have I been so impressed with someone making me so uncomfortable."

Jeff Hiller: [laughs] Somebody wrote that? Ouch. "See? Don't read the comments, Jeff. Don't read the comments."

Alison Stewart: I think that's a great comment.

Jeff Hiller: Oh, okay. That's good. First of all, I think my face does a lot of the work. It's asymmetrical. People don't feel comfortable with that, and then I think if you just drain any emotion out of your speaking voice, it's very, very creepy.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Jeff Hiller: A little acting torque.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my gosh. Who did you practice with?

Jeff Hiller: Me and Bill T. Jones. We're both artists.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Where did you practice that? Who did you practice that with?

Jeff Hiller: Oh, that was just gut. Just instinct, but you would watch the dailies or whatever. I don't know what they're called. Just the little video monitor after the scene, and you'd be like, "Oh, that was creepy," but then I will tell you, the director pulled me aside a couple of times and was like, "Maybe not so much."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Jeff, what is next for you? What do you think you're going to do next?

Jeff Hiller: As far as acting, I don't know, but I did write a book.

Alison Stewart: Oh, tell me.

Jeff Hiller: I wrote a book, and it's called Actress of a Certain Age. It's a memoir through essays. [laughs] It's coming out in June, June 10th. I just found out.

Alison Stewart: I hope you'll come back.

Jeff Hiller: Oh, please, I'd love to.

Alison Stewart: For people who have watched you on Instagram, I have to say, your cat.

Jeff Hiller: She's a star.

Alison Stewart: There's a picture of your cat draped on your shoulders as you're just doing the thing. I don't know what you're doing. Are you cooking? Are you washing dishes?

Jeff Hiller: Oh, yes. I was loading the dishwasher. She likes to have a high perch.

Alison Stewart: What's her name?

Jeff Hiller: Beverly. My husband's last name is Goldberg and my last name is Hiller, so her name is Beverly Goldberg Hiller, which I think just sounds like such an elegant woman on the Upper East Side or West Side or something.

Alison Stewart: Jeff Hiller. He plays Joel in Somebody Somewhere. The show is about to launch its final season on HBO. He will come back in June when his memoir is out.

Jeff Hiller: Yes, please.

Alison Stewart: You'll have a good time with Beverly.

Jeff Hiller: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for coming in.

Jeff Hiller: Thank you so much, Allison.