Alison Stewart: This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Coming up on the show tomorrow, if you've ever heard people talk excitedly about TV series like Severance or The Pitt or musicians like Taylor Swift and you thought to yourself, "Meh, I'm not that interested." We have a conversation for you. Atlantic writer Anna Holmes joins us to talk about her article The People Who Shun Super Popular Culture. As she writes, "For some reason, the most hype something gets, the more likely I am to resist it." We'll talk to her about that fact, and we want to hear what you're avoiding as well. That's happening in about 24 hours. Now let's get this hour started with tips for moving.

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Alison Stewart: We are approaching peak moving season from. May to September, it's estimated that millions of Americans move every year. We all know how stressful moving can be filled with difficult decisions like finding the right movers or deciding what to bring, what to give away. Not to mention the challenges of moving in New York City. Walk ups, narrow staircases or finding space on the street for a moving trunk as cars honk relentlessly behind you. Wirecutter has some resources to try make moving easier, including an ultimate moving checklist put together by my next guest Wirecutter writers Dorie Chevlen. Hi, Dorie.

Dorie Chevlen: Hello.

Alison Stewart: And Kit Dillon. Hey, Kit. Can you hear me?

Kit Dillon: Hello.

Alison Stewart: Oh, there you are. There you go. All right, cool. Of all the tasks in life, there are five listed as most stressful, Dorie. Death of a loved one, divorce, injury, job loss, and then moving is number five. Why does moving stand out as a truly stressful experience?

Dorie Chevlen: I feel like it is the perfect blend of expensive, time consuming, and there's just a lot of different parts that go into it. Trying to figure out, what do I bring with me? What do I need to cancel? What do I need to make sure is going to be at the new place? It's just a lot to handle all at once.

Alison Stewart: Kit, why do you think it's so stressful to move?

Kit Dillon: I think we're just faced with everything that we own all at once, which can just be an overwhelming experience for anyone.

Alison Stewart: Let's start at the beginning. You make the decision that you're going to move either to a new state or a city, or a new apartment. Dorie, what is the first thing you should do?

Dorie Chevlen: First thing you should do? I think you should honestly get a pen and paper or get onto your laptop and open up a document and just start writing down everything you need to do, because it's such a long list, you're not going to be able to keep it in your head. This is why Kit and I have reported on it because there's just so much to keep in mind, and whether that's canceling your electric, canceling your water, canceling your internet. All of these things take a long lead time. Getting organized, just writing it all down I think should be the very first thing you do.

Alison Stewart: Kit, what do people do that maybe they should wait for later to do, but they do it right up front?

Kit Dillon: Oh, that's [unintelligible 00:03:15]. I think probably people try to pack too quickly. I think that's probably one of the first things is just jumping right in. You actually want to really start to call some of the stuff you have before you even get to the packing phase. That will save you a ton of time and ultimately money down the road.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Are you moving anytime soon or have you moved recently? What tips do you have for moving based on your experience? You can call or text us now at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, what about moving in New York City is uniquely challenging? Any hacks to make it easier? How did you decide whether to hire movers or not? Or do you have a question for our experts? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Dorie, if you move from a rented place, you have to let your landlord know. How soon before your lease is up should you let your landlord know?

Dorie Chevlen: It varies based on where you're living, but I would say two months head start is really a good timeline on that. I now live in Los Angeles and I think you can get away with giving them one month notice, but I just think as soon as. It's just better to get ahead of it.

Alison Stewart: Kit, what are some things to keep in mind, how you leave the property so you can get your security deposit back?

[laughter]

Kit Dillon: That does change a little bit from city to city. New York I think is pretty notorious. It can be difficult in some buildings. I've heard. I think you're just trying to do your best. I still work as a mover from time to time, and it really does help, I find, to fire a professional mover. You're going to bump into fewer things, you're going to leave fewer marks. You just want to try and be careful as you're getting out of those narrow apartments, which can be difficult without some pro help, I think.

Alison Stewart: What do you think you should do to your apartment before to make sure you get your security deposit back?

Dorie Chevlen: You know what, Alison, it's funny you should ask that because there's been a bit of a movement now where people just accept that, "You know what, I want to just live in this apartment the way I want to live in it. I'm just going to eat that cost." I don't recommend that. You want to spackle any holes you have in the wall. You can do a lot with a magic eraser to get rid of some wear and tear. You have to do a deep clean. There's no way around that. I think it's stinky. Every time I move out of an apartment, I think, "Wow, I've never cleaned it this well the whole time I lived in it. Now that I'm leaving, it's finally going to sparkle." Things like that can help.

Alison Stewart: You should point out on your checklist that there are all kinds of utilities that need to be scheduled or canceled. Dorie, what are the utilities and services people should remember to schedule ahead of time and how far in advance?

Dorie Chevlen: I would say that one to two months before moving is a good timeline on doing that. Again, this is why it's good to get organized and write everything down, because you just don't even think about all the utilities you have. You've got your trash and recycling pickup, you've got gas, you've got electricity, you've got internet, you've got cable, water, all of these things. Again, writing it all down because it's too much to keep in your head all at once.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a call. This is Scott, who's calling from Mount Vernon, New York. Hey, Scott, thanks for calling, All of It.

SpeakerE: How are you? Happy to be on. Okay, tips. You ready?

Alison Stewart: Yes, we're ready.

SpeakerE: You get a Sharpie, you put it on a string around your neck long enough that you can-- Because you're going to find that you put the Sharpie down. Now you're looking for the Sharpie. You get your tape for taping your boxes. You put that on a belt around your waist. Then you're ready to go. You buy a box of 50 gallon drum liners. You can put your linens, anything that's soft, anything that's not breakable. You can put those in 50 gallon drum liners. Easy to move, don't overload them. You can actually stack your-- You could put your old plates or your silverware, you could put those in your linens in your 50 gallon drum liner. That's just the beginning. I think we're good with that.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to start calling you MacGyver Scott. That's pretty wild. Thanks for calling in. We have a good text that says, "Get rid of stuff right away. It takes a long time, even if you want to give things away." That is to your point, Kit. People have so much stuff, and they have a really hard time letting go of their stuff. What are your suggestions for getting rid of things that you're not sure you want to take with you?

Kit Dillon: It's such a personal experience. I know some people who thrill to get rid of the things that they no longer want. Other people who just seem to hold onto-- every paperclip will have some deeper held meaning. Not to jump on a cliche, but does it spark joy? Might help you. It's a tough process. If you're somebody who takes a long time, then you might want to give yourself a lot of lead time. If you're somebody who's just thrilled to have a quick fire sale, then great. Doesn't take as much time for you.

Alison Stewart: Dorie, what do you give people advice on culling their possessions?

Dorie Chevlen: Kit, I think, is totally right that it's really hard when there's something with emotional value. My rule of thumb is with clothes, if I haven't worn something in a year, I'm just not going to wear that. That's really easy. I think what some people do is as they wear different garments, they will turn the hanger to flip the other side. Then at the end of the year, they'll say, "These hangers are going this direction, which means I haven't worn this thing. Which means probably it's time somebody else wears it instead."

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Craig in Morganville. Hey, Craig, thanks for calling All of It.

SpeakerF: How you doing? First things is that, like the other person-- your guest said, make a huge list. Utilities, all the stuff. Second thing is, make sure the moving company you hired is insured, that they're a viable company. Make sure you take pictures of the license plate of the truck. Take pictures of the movers. I've had things where movers just take off. Make sure that you see everything.

The other thing is, when you are packing stuff up, take pictures of what's in the box that you label so you know where to look. If you do it with your phone, list that picture so you know what box it's for. It's going to make things easier. Also, take pictures of your apartment or your house when you leave so that the landlord or building manager says, "Oh, I noticed this and noticed that," so there are no discrepancies. Make sure you follow the moving truck as you leave. Thank you.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Thank you, Craig. We appreciate it. We're discussing the best practices for making the daunting task of moving just a little bit easier. Wirecutter has an ultimate moving checklist, and you can find it on their website. My guests are Wirecutter writers Dorie Chevlen and Kit Dillon. We're also hearing from you. What tips do you have based on your moving experiences?

What about moving in New York City is a unique challenge. What questions do you have for our experts about making the process easier? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Dorie, there are some of these big items and you have to decide, "Am I bringing the dresser? Am I bringing the bed?" What advice do you have for deciding which big pieces of furniture you should take with you?

Dorie Chevlen: I think you should have a very clear idea of where you're taking it. Definitely, you want to be measuring every room and whatever apartment, house, wherever you're going to next to make sure that that item you love is going to actually fit. I think a lot of people make this mistake, which is they don't measure the doorway. It's happened to me where you think, "The living room is big enough for this gorgeous couch that I love," but is your door frame big enough? Just measuring everything. That will eliminate a lot of pain down the road.

Alison Stewart: Let's say you decide you're going to leave that behind, Kit. How should we try to get rid of the dresser that we want? Do we want to donate it? Do you want to leave it on the curb? What do you think?

Kit Dillon: If you can donate it, that's better. I've seen a lot of errant youth finding things left on the curb, so I think either works, honestly. The more time you've given yourself to donate something, the better. I think a lot of stuff just gets left because it's time to go, and the only place it can go is down the street at that point.

Alison Stewart: We got a text here says, "Excellent donation destination Housing Works." This says, "Schedule a housewarming party for one week after you move. It'll force you to unpack." [laughs]

Dorie Chevlen: That sounds so stressful.

Alison Stewart: Sounds a little stressful. This one says, "NYC moving advice, tip your super. Get off on the right foot."

Dorie Chevlen: Oh, I think that money definitely-- That solves a lot of the world's problems. I'm not surprised that one would work.

Alison Stewart: This is funny, "Genuinely loving this big dad energy. All the men calling in to give advice." [laughter] So good. Obviously, our listeners have a lot of firsthand moving experience in New York City. When you think about New York City, trying to move in New York City-- just saying that makes me nervous. Trying to move in New York City, what are the unique challenges of moving in this city?

Dorie Chevlen: I've moved in New York City three times.

Alison Stewart: Whoa.

Dorie Chevlen: I lived here before going to Los Angeles, and each time it was a different kind of nightmare. I think the biggest one is parking. You need to make sure that you are on a street that you're allowed to park. You need to make sure if you're moving into a fifth floor walkup, you've told your movers ahead of time, "It's a fifth floor walk up." You're just dealing with more people packed into a smaller space. Just all of the different issues that arise from that. That's what makes it uniquely difficult.

Alison Stewart: Is there anything that I can do to help traffic? I've been in those streets. When you've seen a moving truck sitting there blocking the streets, is there anything that you can do to alleviate that?

Dorie Chevlen: I think there's just a good lesson in accepting things as they are. No, I don't think anyone's going to be happy that your moving truck is blocking traffic. The bikers will be mad, the drivers will be mad, and you just have to shrug apologetically.

Alison Stewart: Can I go make a spot? Can I get a couple of cones and say my moving truck is going to be there? I guess you could.

Dorie Chevlen: You could do that. I just think no one's going to be happy regardless. [laughter] There's this futility in trying to please everyone. Everyone's had to move before, though.

Alison Stewart: Kit, as someone who works with moving in New York City, what advice would you give people as a mover?

Kit Dillon: The thing I always tell people is to just be as uniformly as prepared as possible. The big tip that seems to save people a ton of money, a ton of time is I've always found just uniform boxes and/or renting these plastic bins that professional companies allow you to rent. The more uniform everything is, the faster your movers can load that onto a hand truck, get down the hallway and get into the truck, and then the cleaner the truck packing is. That is really where you are burning money and burning time. As for holding up traffic, that's really the ball game right there. The more you get that truck packed, the faster you're off on your way. That's the advice I always give, is just to be as cleanly packed and as uniformly packed as possible.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Chris in Huntington. Hey, Chris, thanks for taking the time to call All of It.

SpeakerG: Hi, thanks for taking my call. First, I wanted to say I can attest to the stress involved. My wife and I are moving out of state from New York to Virginia in June, and I haven't been this stressed in a long time. I haven't moved in 24 years. The first 15 minutes of this show has reduced my blood pressure. Thank you for that. I appreciate you guys have had some great tips.

The one thing I wanted to mention, and this surprised me, was we've been making some calls with moving companies as opposed to using a POD. I know this might not work for people in New York City, but if you live somewhere where you can have a POD delivered, it was significantly cheaper to go with the POD. $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 cheaper, which was an eye opener for me. Also, it gives you the ability to have the POD on your property, and you can take two or three weeks to load it at your leisure, and then that gets delivered to your new location. Just something to think about.

Alison Stewart: I want to ask you, can you explain POD for people who don't understand what you're talking about?

SpeakerG: Oh, sure. A POD is basically a large shipping container of various sizes. They have some small ones and then larger ones that are almost as big as a moving truck. You can pick your size based on the amount of stuff you have, and they deliver it to your house and leave it in your driveway. It's weatherproof. Like I said, the disadvantage is you have to pack it yourself, but you can take your time doing so. The big factor for us was saving thousands of dollars. That's the route we're going.

Alison Stewart: We send you all our best, Chris. Good luck with the move. We are talking about making the daunting task of moving just a little bit easier. We'll be right back after a quick break.

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Alison Stewart: You are listening to All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We're discussing the best practices for moving. Wirecutter has an ultimate moving checklist that you can find on their website. My guests are Wirecutter writers Dorie Chevlin and Kit Dillon. Also, we want to hear from you. What tips do you have for moving based on your experience? What about moving in New York is a unique challenge? Or you have a question for our guests? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We have a question from someone who said I can't afford movers. I'm going to ask my friends to help me. What is an acceptable thank you for your friends helping you move? Is it better to give them cash? Is it better to give them food? What's the deal?

Dorie Chevlen: I've been in this situation before too, and moving is so expensive. I empathize with this one. I think that a very heartfelt thank you and a meal is usually a very nice gesture. I think especially these are your friends, they love you, they understand where you're coming from. I think that as long as you are very gracious and thankful verbally, maybe even send a little written thank you note, which I think is always a classy move. I think a nice meal is fine. I think when they need to move next, just assume you will be tapped.

Alison Stewart: What do you think, Kit?

Kit Dillon: Moving friends is a very communal act. It's one of the great things you can do. I've done it for a slice of pizza. I relish those moments, to be honest.

Alison Stewart: This is a hard question. How old is too old to ask your friends to help you move?

Dorie Chevlen: Oh, I don't think there's a cut-- Kit, I don't know if you're going to disagree with me. I don't think there's a cutoff. I think that you can be in a different financial position at any old age.

Alison Stewart: That's true.

Dorie Chevlen: There are all these challenges that life throws at you. There's divorces, there's deaths in the family. There will always be moves down the horizon.

Alison Stewart: I'm too old. You can't ask me to-- I'll help you find a mover. [laughter] How about that?

Kit Dillon: I don't know. Pack light, keep the boxes small. Anyone can move-

Alison Stewart: That's a good plan.

Kit Dillon: -most things.

Dorie Chevlen: I also think you're never too young to say no so there's some upside to that.

Alison Stewart: That's true. Let's talk about budgeting for your move. Where should you spend your money? Let's say you do afford a mover. Is that the way you spend the most money? Where should you spend it?

Dorie Chevlen: I would say that's probably where the biggest chunk of your money is going to go because a bunch of cardboard boxes, that's not going to really put you too far back. Kit and I both very strongly agree that that is another worthwhile investment. I think a lot of people try to cut corners by getting boxes maybe from the grocery store, the deli in their neighborhood, but you run into different issues with that. One, what Kit talked about is having a bunch of different sized boxes makes it very hard to pack efficiently. Two, and this is really gross, a lot of those boxes can have bugs in them, and you don't want that.

Alison Stewart: I don't want that. Kit, what steps should people take about finding the right moving company?

Kit Dillon: You want to, definitely as one caller mentioned, check for insurance, check reviews, check just a history of moving. Then trusting your gut after that point. We've talked to a couple of very large, ubiquitous movers, including Piece of Cake, which you see all over New York right now as part of our research for this piece. I think the larger outfits generally, I think you can tend to trust.

Although every move is an individual experience. You can go to the best moving company and have maybe the worst move and you can go sometimes to somebody off Craigslist and have a great move. It really does depend. Having been a mover in both of those kinds of experiences, everyone's doing their best generally. Some patience generally will get you a long way as well.

Alison Stewart: Considering you were a professional mover, what are some things that clients who are moving can do to make your life easier. You said the boxes, all having the same size boxes. What else can they do?

Kit Dillon: Please empty your drawers. [laughter] That's the one that always stuns. If you can empty your drawers, if you can empty anything that-- the sideboards, anything like that, and just being ready. You'd be amazed how many times we've walked into houses and people are not packed at all.

Alison Stewart: No.

Kit Dillon: It's an incredible-- Have we seen or experienced it over the years? I really think people just emotionally block out what's about to happen to them. [laughter] You show up and you're like, "Is this the right house?" That creates chaos.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Penny from Manhattan. Hi, Penny, thanks for calling All of It.

SpeakerH: Hi. I was going to say when you're trying to move, it's painful if you try to figure out what you don't want and what you can leave behind. It's much better to look at all the things that you have and decide what you really need, what you really want, and pick those out, and then don't look too hard at the ones that you've discarded.

Alison Stewart: Aw, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Patricia, who's also calling from Manhattan. Hey, Patricia, thanks for calling All of It. You're on the air.

SpeakerI: Oh, hi. Thank you and thanks for this show. I've taken so many tips to heart already. We're in the middle of a move. We're moving later this month from one part of Manhattan to another. The one tip I wanted to share with everybody is to have one box labeled open this box first. That will contain things like toiletries, medications, a couple of clean changes of clothing, tools, just things that you're going to go mad if you can't locate right away.

Alison Stewart: Really good advice. You're nodding your head, Dorie.

Dorie Chevlen: No, I've lived this mistake so many times. I did one move, and I was too willy nilly about labeling things. I was so hungry when I was done with it. I got, I think, take-out sushi or something. Then I could not find the box with chopsticks and silverware. I ended up eating the sushi with I think a pen and a pencil. You can avoid by doing that really fabulous tip.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Steve in Hell's Kitchen. Hey, Steve, thanks for holding. You're on the air.

SpeakerJ: You bet, Allison. Unfortunately or fortunately, my wife and I have moved at least seven times.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

SpeakerJ: We have a lot of experience doing this. The best advice she gave me was when we moved back from Maryland to Manhattan was to get rid of everything. To my regret, I didn't listen to her. [laughter] If we had done that and just simply started all over again when we got to Hell's Kitchen, we would have been in much better shape. My greatest advice for people is to hire professional movers if you're moving from one place to another in Manhattan. How do you find them? Well, use your contacts.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that's smart.

SpeakerJ: [unintelligible 00:24:07]. Find them who had successful moves.

Alison Stewart: Appreciate the tip. Thank you so much for calling in. This is a question we had from one of our producers. She's moving within her building to a higher floor, and it seems like that might be a smaller task, but not really.

Dorie Chevlen: No. I did this two years ago. I moved literally one block over. I feel like you get fooled because you think, "Oh, this is going to be so easy. I don't need to get boxes. I don't need to get a dolly. I'm going so close." It will take you truly endless hours if you do it that way. I still think you should put everything into boxes. Get a dolly. If you're just going up and down stairs with a handful of your clothes, a handful of your dishes, it will take you truly eternity. I think you still need to pack up in that case.

Alison Stewart: Kit, should the producer hire a moving company, or should she go to some place like TaskRabbit or Craigslist, find somebody to just help her move their stuff?

Kit Dillon: That one, I would say, is on the line-- It really depends on how much heavy furniture you have, I would think. If you have a large couch you're not going to get rid of or any very heavier wood, then I would say almost certainly just hire a moving company. It probably won't even cost that much. It maybe take an hour, depending on how small the apartment is-- moving to the next apartment. It's a close one. Maybe some friends could help.

Alison Stewart: Maybe some friends. If you're moving state to state or over long distance, not just into New York City, how does that change the moving planning process, Dorie?

Dorie Chevlen: I would say it doesn't really change the process, but it does just mean that as you're looking for a moving company, you now need to make sure that it has a license with the US department of Transportation so that it can go across state lines. As far as planning, I think you still need the same timeline on canceling all of your utilities and actually physically packing up the place. Then it just becomes a question of, are you going to also be driving a little U-Haul too, or are you going to fly out and meet them? I think the timeline's about the same, though.

Alison Stewart: This says, "The biggest challenge of moving in New York City is getting your deposit back from the landlord. Born and raised here. Never got it back once. My grandmother didn't even return it." That's an amazing story. Kit, if you work 9:00 to 5:00, when should a move happen? Can it happen over the weekend? Should you take time off? Should you take time off after? What do you think?

Kit Dillon: You're pretty, I think, limited by your building at that point. Some buildings have such strict days you can and can't move. Some are during the week, some are weekends. Is the elevator available to you or not available to you? Hopefully you can do it on the weekend, and that's fine. It might be something that you have to take a day off and have a team come in, knock you out and get on your way. It's so idiosyncratic across the city. It's too hard to say.

Alison Stewart: After reading your article, you realize it's really hard for people to move. It really, really gets deep into their soul. It was interesting, on your list it said you have to remind yourself to be nice to yourself. You have to treat yourself at some point during the move. What are you thinking of when you were thinking of writing that?

Kit Dillon: That was a very Dorie advice. I'll just throw in [unintelligible 00:27:31].

Alison Stewart: I'm looking right at Dorie.

Dorie Chevlen: I just think that life is so hard and moves are especially-- They're so hard, they're so stressful, they're so expensive. I think that there can be a lot of self judgment, especially as you're packing things up where you're like, "Why am I mess? Why do I own all this stupid stuff? Why is all my furniture from IKEA and it's going to fall apart." There's just a lot of ways you can be less than kind with yourself. I think that this is just a good opportunity to remind yourself that maybe we're a little bit more gentle and a little bit more patient, and this is not an easy task.

Alison Stewart: We've been discussing best practices for making the daunting task of moving just a little bit easier. Big thanks to Wirecutter writers Dorie Chevlen and to Kit Dillon. Thanks for coming in.

Dorie Chevlen: Thanks for having us.

Kit Dillon: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: We want to let our listeners know that, yes, the transcript for this segment will be up tomorrow.

 

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