Alison: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. It's GivingTuesday, everybody, which means today is a great time to support the non-profit organizations in your life that are important to you. We hope WNYC is one of them. Your support is critical to our mission of independent journalism and the conversations you hear right here on All Of It. Please call 888-376-9692, 888-376-WNYC, or donate online at wnyc.org and get a little holiday shopping done as well. Again, that is 888-376-9692, and thank you very much for considering it. Now, let's get this hour started with some little sweet treats.

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Alison: It's New York Times Cookie Week, and for the next several days, it will release a new video demonstration each day. This is just in time for the holidays and WNYC's annual staff bake-off, which is two weeks away for all of our colleagues who are listening. This year's recipes include popcorn bucket cookies, mortadella cookies, coconut cake snowballs, mint chocolate chip, Vietnamese coffee swirl brownies, and dark and stormy cookies, but there's more. There's an entire cookbook with about 100 recipes. It's titled Cookies: The Best Recipes for the Perfect Anytime Treat. It's out now. Joining us to discuss it is its author, Vaughn Vreeland, recipe creator and The New York Times Cooking supervising video producer. It is nice to meet you.

Vaughn Vreeland: Nice to meet you, too, Alison. Happy cookie week.

Alison: Thank you. Hey, are you trying out a new cookie recipe for the holidays, or is there a recipe that has become a tradition in the family? Tell us what it is. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in, join us on the air, or you can text that number, or tell us if you have a question, or if you're in need of inspiration. We've got The New York Times Vaughn Vreeland here for some advice. Our phone is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC, or you can reach out on social at All Of It WNYC. In your book, you say this is a book for anyone who has ever had a strong emotional response to a cookie.

Vaughn Vreeland: Oh, yes.

Alison: What is a recipe for you or your family that you have that strong emotional response to?

Vaughn Vreeland: What's really funny is [chuckles] the more I think about this question, because I've gotten it before, the more my answer leans toward Oreos, which is not, obviously, a proprietary Vreeland family recipe by any means. I think that that was the first thing that I bonded with my grandma over. We would eat Oreos.

Alison: Dunk them?

Vaughn Vreeland: Dunk them. I would have a glass of milk, she would have a glass of Chardonnay. We would watch General Hospital. I was far too young to know what Sonny was doing on General Hospital, but I did. I think that it opened my eyes to how food can connect us. Generationally, I think that that was something that was really important for me. It also just got me curious about the power of baked goods. I always loved watching food media television, like Food Network, and things like that.

Really, when I started going was when I would just make the Nestlé Toll House recipe, honestly. I think that that is the gateway cookie for a lot of people. Then once I got curious, I started tinkering with the ratios of ingredients and trying different mix-ins. That was something that really stuck out to me when I was in middle school, about trying this almost science experiment in the kitchen, and at the end of it, you have cookies. [chuckles]

Alison: General Hospital and Oreos, a perfect match.

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs] Totally.

Alison: When you think about this time of year, cookies take on another meaning. They seem really special this time of year. Why do you think that is?

Vaughn Vreeland: I think that it's not only a bonding experience making them with people. I personally have gotten my niece and nephews really involved in baking because of the holidays. I think it's a time for us to really stop and pause and reconnect to the things that we enjoy doing rather than the things we have to do, and for a lot of people, that's baking. Also, just the cookies, I think specifically, are something that you share with people.

I could eat a whole tray of cookies by myself for sure, and I have before, not ashamed to admit that, but more often than not, you're baking at least a dozen, and you give those out to people, you share those with people. Those are the kind of taste memories that I'm talking about that you start creating with people. I obviously love eating cookies, I love going to cookie exchanges, but my favorite thing about the holidays is giving cookies to people in my neighborhood. I love going to my laundry people, I love going to my barber, and just dropping off cookies because it's something that helps make their day.

Alison: All right. If someone picks up this book and looks at this page, which I'm going to show you, there are so many different types of cookie: Rye, cranberry, chocolate chip, date bars, pistachio pinwheels. Now, some people may be thinking, "It's a bar. It's a pinwheel. Is that really a cookie?" How do you define cookie for this cookbook?

Vaughn Vreeland: Such a good question. We had a lot of back and forth, honestly, about the bar conversation.

Alison: Fisticuffs.

[laughter]

Vaughn Vreeland: Truly. At one point, we were team no bars, and I was like, "What if we created this pamphlet or this scene that would go along with some of the in-person activations for the book that was called Barred from the Book?" It was all the bars that didn't make it in the book. As I was working on the table of contents and parsing the database of New York Times Cooking, it became clear to me that we really did need to include some bar cookies because, A, they're delicious.

The pumpkin blondies are one of my favorite recipes in that whole entire book. Also, a lot of the categories in the table of contents, a lot of the chapters needed bars, like the Fun, Fruity, and Tart chapter, for example. We had to have lemon bars. We had to have the salted margarita bars. Those are some of our non-negotiables at New York Times Cooking, so I think that that was a good way for us to justify putting bars in the book.

Alison: We are talking about cookies with recipe creator and New York Times Cooking supervising video producer, Vaughn Vreeland, who is the author of a new book titled Cookies: The Best Recipes for the Perfect Anytime Treat. We are going to take your calls. Let's talk to Heidi. Hi, Heidi. Thanks for calling All Of It. You have a question about oatmeal raisin cookies.

Heidi: Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I love making cookies, and I love making oatmeal raisin cookies. I haven't quite found the recipe yet that gives me that kind of texture and chewiness that I get if I buy an oatmeal raisin cookie from a cafe or something, a professional one. I'm wondering if you have any tips or tricks for this.

Vaughn Vreeland: That is such a good question. I think one thing that people underestimate is how much moisture oats soak up. A lot of times, when we make them homemade, they can dry out really easily, especially when they're left on the counter for a little bit. I like having a higher ratio of your kind of "wet ingredients" in there, specifically brown sugar, because brown sugar is something that, really, it's molasses and sugar basically. It's something that keeps cookies very moist and chewy for a long time.

Also, sometimes people add an extra egg yolk. That extra fat in there is something that really helps it. It doesn't create as much of a spread as butter might, but it also creates this very pillowy, chewy interior that's almost custardy, which I love about those store-bought oatmeal raisin cookies specifically. I think having that kind of higher ratio.

We do have a recipe in the book that is really, really good. It's one of our tried and true. You can also find it on nytcooking.com, but that one is one that definitely does stay soft and chewy for a really long time. Also, another tip, raisins do soak up moisture because they're dried fruit, and when they come in contact with things that are wet, they will soak that up. Those things also soak up the moisture in your cookie. What you can do is you can plump them up with a little hot water for about five minutes before you mix them in.

Alison: Good luck to you. This says, "Peanut butter cookies with chocolate stars on top, my favorite cookie my mom and dad made every Christmas." Let's talk to Erica who's calling in from Brooklyn. Hey Erica, thanks for calling All Of It.

Erica: Hi. Can you hear me?

Alison: Yes, you're on the air.

Erica: Hi. Actually, as I'm talking to you, I'm making a giant gingerbread carousel for the Mohonk-

[laughter]

Erica: -Mountain House Gingerbread Contest, so I'm covered in royal icing. I wanted to share my favorite cookie that I love to make every Christmas and is kind of a demand is a lebkuchen, an Elisenlebkuchen that's basically just an excuse to eat an enormous amount of almond paste. I also love to make another cookie called Stollenkonfekt. Both of them are the Classic German Baking book by Luisa Weiss.

Vaughn Vreeland: That's a good book.

Erica: It's a well-loved cookbook. It's like pages are stuck together with sugar and-

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs]

Erica: -it's greasy from butter. When I'm done with this mammoth project, next week, I will start in on my Christmas cookies. Just wanted to share that for all those sort of European Christmas cookies that basically it's just an excuse to buy seven pound canister of almond paste.

Alison: Thank you so much for calling. By the way, when you finish making that giant gingerbread carousel, please take a picture and post it on Instagram @allofitwnyc.

Vaughn Vreeland: Please. I'm so curious. [laughs]

Alison: I can't wait to see it.

Vaughn Vreeland: I can't wait to see that either.

Alison: I want you to give me a pep talk. If I'm someone who doesn't go in the kitchen, I haven't even thought about cookies, give me a pep talk for making Christmas cookies or making any kind of cookies this time of year.

Vaughn Vreeland: One of my core tenets of this book is that baking is fun. I say, repeat after me, baking is fun.

Alison: Baking is fun.

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs] It should be fun. You should set yourself up for success so you're not stressed out. I think a lot of people get stressed out, which causes them to rush, and a rushed cookie is often not a great cookie. If you leave yourself enough time and surround yourself with things that make you happy, pick a good playlist. I love a good kitchen mat that is comfortable for me to stand on with bare feet. I love having little cute, silly tchotchkes around me that just remind me of travels.

I have a little voodoo doll that lords over my kitchen as I'm baking. [laughs] Things like that, I think, are important. When I first moved to New York, I was like, "I got to wear all black. I'm only shopping at the restaurant supply store because I'm going to be a professional." The more I bake, the more I love incorporating color into my kitchen. That's just something that makes me happy, and it entices me to go into the kitchen.

I think doing that, reading the recipe through before you start, is something that's very important. Honestly, for cookies, a good cookie sheet does not have to be expensive, but something that is aluminum, a little heavier, not your mom's 1984 [laughs] cookie sheet. My mom still has one too, and I'm like, "What are you doing with it?" Just something that is a little sturdier. I liked one with a rimmed edge and an oven thermometer. Everyone's oven's different.

Alison: Ovens lie.

Vaughn Vreeland: Ovens lie all the time.

Alison: All the time.

Vaughn Vreeland: Mine is 25 degrees warmer than it should be. That's stuff that people don't necessarily think about, but it stresses you out so much.

Alison: It's also chemistry-

Vaughn Vreeland: Absolutely.

Alison: -which is a big part of this, which is why I'm going to read this question, which came into us from a colleague who shall remain nameless. "Is there a difference between baking soda and baking powder?"

Vaughn Vreeland: Yes, there is a difference between baking soda and baking powder. Baking soda is an ingredient that requires an acid in order to react. It is a base, and it is something that you need, either, like I said, brown sugar, molasses, cocoa powder is acidic, any type of acidic ingredient that will help it activate and give it that lift. Baking powder is the neutralized version of that. It is often baking soda with an additive that is acidic, like a-- I don't know if they necessarily add cream of tartar, but something like that to kind of neutralize it. They both have their own importance. You can't just always use baking powder because it's baking soda with something else added to it.

Alison: I had a question in terms of all the accoutrements that come along. Like you said, you would go to Sur La Table and want to buy everything. Does a rolling pin really matter?

Vaughn Vreeland: Yes, it does.

Alison: It does? Okay.

Vaughn Vreeland: I think that it matters depending on the type of cookie. If you're making a sugar cookie, obviously, you could use a bottle of wine. [laughs] You can make things work. I think that's one of the fun things about a lot of us at New York Times Cooking is we live in tiny kitchens. We are scrappy. I don't have a bunch of crazy equipment in my kitchen when I'm developing recipes. I do use those things sometimes in order to get my desired result.

I think a good rolling pin, if you are planning on making sugar cookies a lot, it'll just make your life a little bit easier. I also love those ones that have the barriers that kind of adjust on either side for different thicknesses. If you're rolling, if a recipe indicates a quarter inch, you can put your quarter-inch bands on either side, and it will roll it completely even.

Alison: That is a gift for Kate, who is sitting in our [laughs] control room. Let's talk to Rob from West Orange, New Jersey. Hi, Rob. Thanks for calling All Of It. What's your question?

Rob: Hi there. I'm a big fan of the New York Times Cooking, so thanks very much for all you do.

Vaughn Vreeland: Thank you.

Rob: People in my family, some of them very lactose intolerant. I love to bake. What is your favorite lactose-free butter substitute to bake with? Hopefully, sweet butter, not salted.

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs] That's a good question. I've used the Daiya brand and things like that. Honestly, in terms of a butter substitute, I really-- I don't know if this is kind of a cop out, but coconut oil or olive oil is something that I really enjoy baking with because it's a fat that is a natural thing that often imparts a lot of great texture and flavor in a recipe. It is obviously not going to be your vegan butter. I don't know if that's necessarily the question you're asking, but I think recipes that call for coconut oil or olive oil, they're so intentional, and it really lets those recipes shine.

In Cookie Week, we actually have a recipe for the coconut snowballs that calls for unrefined coconut oil, which imparts that really nice coconutty flavor, and it just adds this gorgeous texture, which I really, really love. That's a good dairy-free option. I think that a lot of those vegan butters now, especially, have been engineered to be as close [laughs] to perfect as you can try to get.

Alison: We're talking to Vaughn Vreeland from the New York Times. He's the author of the book Cookies: The Best Recipes for the Perfect Anytime Treat. Are you trying out a new cookie recipe for the holidays, or is there a recipe that's become a tradition in your family? Give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We'll be right back.

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Alison: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest in studio is Vaughn Vreeland from the New York Times Cooking. He wrote the book Cookies: The Best Recipes for the Perfect Anytime Treat. All right. Let's get into some recipes. You have salted margarita bars. You call it Key limes pie's boozier, saltier cousin. How did you get the idea to turn a cocktail into a cookie?

Vaughn Vreeland: If anybody's been following my recipe progress out there at The New York Times, I am known for taking drinks and turning them into cookies. Not always alcoholic beverages. Cookie Week actually started around the idea of the eggnog snickerdoodle, and then we ran with it with a virtual cookie exchange in 2020, so that was the start of Cookie Week. I think I was just trying to pay homage to some of my favorite things, one of those being margaritas. I was working on a summer baking package where I was looking for something that was really refreshing, and I was like, "Oh, I love a frozen margarita. What if I turned that into a bar?" It's a kind of a mix between an Atlantic Beach pie, if you've ever had that, which has a saltine crust.

Alison: Oh, you need 40 saltine crackers for this?

Vaughn Vreeland: Yes, you do. Oh, yes, yes, yes, but the crust is wonderful. It is nice and salty. It's not too salty. Actually, when you're done baking it, it gets frozen, so I like to store them in the freezer, and they don't have a frozen texture because of all the egg yolk and the alcohol that's in there. It keeps it nice and custardy when it's in the freezer.

Alison: There's real tequila in it.

Vaughn Vreeland: Oh, there's tequila, and there's Cointreau, there's Grand Marnier, whatever kind of orange liqueur you want to put in there.

Alison: Let's talk to Sarah from Brooklyn. Hi, Sarah. Thank you so much for calling All Of It.

Sarah: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to say that I had to make the desserts for Thanksgiving, and among the desserts I made were the ginger snap number one from Maida Heatter's Book of Great Cookies. Her book always delivers all the recipes in there, but that ginger snap in particular, it's a molasses ginger snap cookie, and it is so rich and just perfect. I think it's my favorite, tied with chocolate chip. That's all I wanted to say. Thank you.

Alison: Thank you so much. You have an entire chapter about chocolate chip cookies-

Vaughn Vreeland: Oh, yes.

Alison: -in this book. One of them, the adobo chocolate chip, it's an interesting recipe because it calls for fresh bay leaves, soy sauce, and vinegar. What do these ingredients do to a chocolate chip cookie?

Vaughn Vreeland: A lot of those are going to be flavoring. The vinegar and the soy sauce are those more acidic characteristics, which will also interact with the other kind of, A, wet ingredients, and B, any kind of leavener that's in there. I think there's baking soda, baking powder in that cookie. They create almost a nice tenderness in the cookie itself. Anything that's acidic, when it's reacting with your flour, will almost denature the proteins a little bit. That cookie is really, really interesting. I love it.

I love that we have so many different types of chocolate chip cookies. We have, I think, probably over 50 in our database, and it was really hard to choose just 10 for this. I think what's great about a chocolate chip cookie is that everybody has opinions about it, a lot of opinions about it. It was fun putting recipes together that would satisfy a wide swath of chocolate chip cookie lovers.

Alison: Let's talk to Hope from Melville. She has a hope that you'll be able to help her. Hi, Hope. Ask your question.

Hope: [laughs] Hi. I actually don't have a question. I just wanted to share a story. I grew up in the Midwest, and my grandmothers were on either coast, one in New York, one in California, and I developed a relationship with my neighbor. She was my surrogate grandmother. I would go to Lillian Olson's house after school every day, and she would share with me these very simple Norwegian sugar cookies. Eventually, I moved to New York, and I was really sad. I was in fifth grade.

I said, "Please give me the recipe." She said, "Oh, it's an old family secret. I'm so sorry. I'll send them to you every year. I promise," and she did. She sent them to me every year until she didn't, and I was crushed. I ended up getting a letter in the mail from her son. He said, "I just need to let you know that my mother has passed away. I was cleaning out her bedside drawer, and there was a note that said, 'Please send this to my girl in New York.'" I'm going to cry even now.

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs] Me too.

Hope: It was the recipe, and I make them now every year with my children. It is like a full-body memory with that first bite every year.

Alison: That's such a sweet story.

Vaughn Vreeland: So sweet. I'm verklempt.

Alison: Verklempt. I got one for you. "I love cookies, and I love cookie dough just as much, maybe more. What's your take on eating the dough?"

Vaughn Vreeland: Oh, I always eat the dough. [laughs] I'm sure that that is not an FDA-approved answer, an NYT-approved answer, but I love it. I'm less concerned about raw eggs as I am raw flour. Actually, a lot of times when people make edible cookie dough, they bake the flour at a low temperature, and that kills any bacteria that might be in the flour. That's what they say is the real danger of raw cookie dough.

Alison: It's 2025 Cookie Week at The New York Times, and your contribution to the list is the popcorn bucket cookies. This is a lot of candy in here.

Vaughn Vreeland: [laughs]

Alison: Describe it for me.

Vaughn Vreeland: Basically, this year, our unofficial theme to Cookie Week was "but make it a cookie." I was thinking about my favorite thing about the holidays, which is watching holiday movies with my parents, with my boyfriend, and I just wanted to recall those great memories of being at the movie theater and having a big bucket of salty popcorn and all the candy that my heart could desire. I still do that to this day. I just really wanted to have fun with it.

I also was thinking like, "What if there was a cookie that was as much fun to shop for as there was to bake and eat?" I think that this cookie does that. It's so fun going through the candy aisle at your bodega, at your grocery store, and just picking out all your favorite things. Whatever candy your heart desires, Alison, you can put in this cookie. Then you brush it in butter, you roll it in crushed popcorn, it bakes, and you top it with a little flaky sea salt. You just get that perfect, sweet, salty, chock full of candy. It reignites that childlike wonder in you.

Alison: I've been speaking with New York Times Cooking supervising producer, Vaughn Vreeland. He is the author of the new cookbook, Cookies: The Best Recipes for the Perfect Anytime Treat. Thank you for joining us.

Vaughn Vreeland: Thank you. I had so much fun. Happy Cookie Week, and happy baking to everyone out there.