Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Romance novels are surging in popularity after a few TV and film adaptations like Heated Rivalry, based on a book series. It captivated audiences. Just a small suggestion from Mayor Mamdani during the snowstorm led to a 529% increase in downloads for the second book in the series through the New York Public Library. This is just one of the latest novels reaching new audiences. In 2020 it was the Bridgerton series. In 2022 it was the Summer I Turned Pretty series. This year it's the dark romance Wuthering Heights with a new film adaptation being released this weekend.

In turn, NYPL just released a list of best romance books of 2026 for adults and Book Riot composed a list of the best romance books of the century. To help us understand why seeking out these stories, I am here with a romance novel enthusiasts. Leah Koch is the owner of the Ripped Bodice Bookstore which she co-founded with her sister Bea Hodges-Koch, I hope I'm saying her name right, back in 2016. Leah, welcome to all of it.

Leah Koch: Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, are you a frequent romance reader? How did you fall in love with the genre? What's your favorite novel and why? What would you recommend to someone who wants to read more love stories? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Maybe you read the Heated Rivalry series. Did you read the books beforehand or did you see the show first? Our phone number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Print sales for romance books in the US have more than doubled in the last five years. Why do you think there has been this interest in this genre?

Leah Koch: I attribute it to a few different factors: The pandemic, the rise of TikTok, and, I hope I'm not bumming everybody out, but the worse things get in the real world, the better romance sales get. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: I have to admit that you want something that's going to end on a good note when you're reading in a really difficult times.

Leah Koch: Yes. I've been doing this for about 10 years now. It'll be our 10th anniversary of our LA store next month. We used to see a lot more spikes and dips in terms of sales going up and down. These days, honestly we see a lot less of that. It's pretty much riding great sales for us, which I don't know what that says about the state of the world, but it's good for us. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: A lot of TV series and films have been used for inspirations for these kinds of texts over the years. How did novels capture romance in words that we may not have seen on screen or we may not have seen on screen yet?

Leah Koch: With a romance novel, you're able to be in somebody's head in a way that you can't by nature of the medium of film. That's something that I've always loved about romance novels and just books in general, is you get a much, much deeper understanding of a character's inner emotional life and feelings. It can be hard to translate that to the screen. Some people do it really. I think that's the superpower of books.

Alison Stewart: How do fans of series of novels typically respond when they see this series brought to the masses, brought to the greater good?

Leah Koch: I think it depends on how good a job they do. [chuckles] I think if you do a great job, then those OG fans are thrilled. Unfortunately, sometimes if you don't do such a good job, maybe they're not as excited. It's like the I-knew-the-band-before-they-were-cool kind of phenomenon. [laughs] I think a lot of people feel like they've been there since the beginning. The great thing about romance is there's always room for growth and we're always happy to welcome new fans.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Heather, who's calling in from Harlem. Hi, Heather. Thanks for making the time to call All Of It.

Heather: Hi. I've actually read romance novels since I was a teenager. Back then I really got interested in historical romance particularly. Over the last, probably 20 years or so, I'm mostly reading Regency romance, which I particularly like. It's very popular, as Bridgerton can attest. The thing that I wanted to mention about it is people have this idea that reading romance is just about sex.

A lot of romance novels are very steamy, and that can be an appealing aspect, but what I really love about them is how interior they tend to be. Most of the best ones I've read are really talking about the character development that's required for the couple to get together. Usually, there might be some external aspects that are keeping them apart, but most of the issues are about personal growth, which I think is really fascinating and makes for really deep and interesting reading.

Alison Stewart: Heather, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Elizabeth from Manhattan. Hi, Elizabeth, you're on the air.

Elizabeth: Oh, hello. I'm so excited to have heard this show. I started reading romance novels while I was going through a divorce. I read a number every week. Really also into the Regency era. Men written by women are amazing men, which is wonderful, but I have really had this question. I'm so excited because I've been wanting to go into the Ripped Bodice and ask this question. Are there any romantic stories that we have even in our collective consciousness that don't continue to forward patriarchal ideas? I have not found them even where the heroines are really very feminist or, in some way independent. I don't feel like we're looking at a large enough idea of romance.

Alison Stewart: Let's ask Leah. What do you think about that, Leah?

Leah Koch: I think that's a great question. Also, please come in and ask us whatever you want. In my opinion, if you're looking for less patriarchal stories, you need to go beyond a male-female pairing, which is not to say you can't find them for those, but it's pretty hard. [chuckles] I would take a look at some of the amazing queer romances that are out there and in the historical genre.

Highly recommend checking out Cat Sebastian as well as Alexis Hall has a book called A Lady for a Duke, which I just love. When you're thinking about relationships that are outside of a strict gender sexuality binary, you tend to see less reliance on the rigidity of patriarchal norms. I would start with those two authors and see where you get.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Leah Koch. She is the Ripped Body Bookstore co-founder and owner. We are talking about romance novels. Listeners, we'd like to hear from you as well. Are you a frequent romance reader? How did you become interested in the genre and what's your favorite novel and why? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. I'm going to take the next four minutes and talk about Heated Rivalry. Okay?

Leah Koch: Sure. That sounds great. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: All right. In the last two months people have been talking about heated rivalry. It's this long-term love story between two professional hockey players; One who is somewhat closeted and the other one sleeps with whoever he wants. Let's listen to a clip from the show. This follows Shane Hollander and Ilya Rozanov who play for opposing teams, we should say. In the scene they're discussing what their relationship means.

Shane Hollander: It's not just being gay, it's you. It's this. Being gay is one thing, but your arch rival is another thing.

Ilya Rozanov: That's why it is a secret.

Shane Hollander: I know that, but last time, and for the record, I am sorry about last time. I'm sorry I freaked out, but before that, it was nice.

Ilya Rozanov: It was.

Shane Hollander: It felt like we were something.

Ilya Rozanov: We can't be something, Hollander.

[music]

Shane Hollander: Would you want to be if we could?

Ilya Rozanov: We can't.

Alison Stewart: That is based on the 2018 Game Changer series. What is unique about Heated Rivalry?

Leah Koch: It's a fantastic book. I have been a fan of this book for a long time, long before it was a TV show. I'm one of the I-knew-the-band-before-it-was-cool people. I think there's a lot of things. I think sports romance is really popular in general and I think it goes back to what Elizabeth was saying, it allows for a more in-depth exploration of masculinity and patriarchal structures.

I think in particular with gay romance, in this case, two men, you are interacting with male emotions on a level that is pretty rare in the media in general. It also has just a depth of yearning which I think people really respond to. As you said, it's a pretty long term relationship. It's going on over years and years and years, so you really get to see it develop and change.

Alison Stewart: Author Rachel Reid's Game Changer series features six novels, and only two of them actually deal with the romance between Hollander and Ilya. Another gay couple is featured on the TV show, Scott Hunter and Kip Grady. They make an appearance. Tell us how Scott and Kip in the series offer a different perspective on romance.

Leah Koch: Scott in Kip's book, Scott is a professional hockey player and Kip works at a smoothie shop, and that's how they meet. He's a student. It's a very different dynamic in terms of Shane and Ilya are arch rivals, both professional players. It would be a huge, huge scandal beyond just being an NHL player. Scott and Kip don't really have as much of that pressure. However, mild spoilers ahead, Scott is the first NHL player in this universe to come out, so faces a different pressure in that way.

Alison Stewart: All right. Let's get on to some more recommendations from you. You have a book here called The Kennedy Rule by K.C. Carmichael. This is another gay hockey romance. What's different about it?

Leah Koch: Yes. I really enjoyed this book a couple of months ago. Very appropriate for the time of year given the Olympics. I think the interesting thing with when a book like Heated Rivalry goes mainstream and people get really excited about it is people like it for a lot of different reasons. If you are very focused and you want another gay hockey romance, this is the direction I would go, but there's also people who like it solely for the sports aspect or solely for the queer aspect or solely because they haven't read romance before and they really like the emotions of it.

Alison Stewart: It's worth noting that that book and the Game Changer's books are written by women.

Leah Koch: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think female authors are interested in exploring romance between two men?

Leah Koch: I can't speak for an author and I don't write books and there are wonderful MM romances written by men, which I'll get to in a second, but I'm guessing writers are interested in romance and emotion between all kinds of people. I also think that it's important to note that, especially for women of all sexualities, part of the appeal of reading a book about two men is that there's no threat of violence against women, which I know is a little dark, but-

Alison Stewart: It's true.

Leah Koch: -it's true. [chuckles] I mentioned Alexis hall before. Fantastic writer of gay romance in all genres, historical, contemporary, fantasy. I would also recommend the work of Austin Chant. There are just a pretty much endless amount of titles and authors to get excited about.

Alison Stewart: We're talking to Leah Koch. She is the Ripped Bodice Bookstore co-founder and owner. We're talking about romance novels. We want to hear from you as well. Are you a frequent romance reader? How do you become interested and what is your favorite Novel and why? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. I wanted to ask you about Alex Martin. She's a USA Today Best-Selling Author. I think she's a mom of four. She was married to a guy who played for the NFL for a while. What intrigues you about her writing?

Leah Koch: It's just the authenticity. Alexa, her husband played for the NFL for many years. I don't know that much about football to be honest with you, but there's a level of trust that I have in terms of she knows what she's talking about. She has a great series of football romances that I definitely recommend.

Alison Stewart: She's got a book published last year called How to Sell a Romance. Another coming out this spring called By the Bootstraps. Do you have a favorite of hers?

Leah Koch: I think it is that football series. How to Sell a Romance is great. It's just not the sports aspect of it. I think I'd go with the football series.

Alison Stewart: This text says, "With economic freedom for women came the realization that we could opt out of dissatisfying relationships. The sex and the romance and satisfaction that come from romance or from smut or from whatever you want to call it is far superior to most heterosexual relationships I've been in. Until reality can beat fantasy, why on Earth would we settle for anymore?" This is an interesting--

Leah Koch: Great point.

Alison Stewart: This is a good point. Let's go to another recommendations of yours. It's called, let me get this right, Cleat Cute by Meryl Wilsner.

Leah Koch: I love Meryl's books, all of them. I am a big women's soccer fan myself and so I love this book. This is a sapphic romance, so two women who play for the U.S. women's National Soccer team. It's just wonderful. Highly recommend. Generally, Meryl's books tend to be a little bit more on the spicy side, so keep that in mind. If you're a women's sports fan, I think you would really like that one.

Alison Stewart: What's the tone of the books?

Leah Koch: This one specifically?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Leah Koch: It's a good mix of that sort of rom com feel, but there's certainly dramatic elements. There's discussions about dealing with fame as an athlete, as well as different aspects of neurodivergence. I think it strikes a really good mix.

Alison Stewart: Another book on the list is Playing for Keeps. Who is Playing for Keeps by?

Leah Koch: That's Alexandria Bellefleur, who also writes fantastic sapphic romances. This one, I think, people will really respond to because it's Taylor and Travis, except it's not them, it's their publicists. There's a fictional football player and there's a fictional pop star and they start dating and their two respective publicists get involved with each other. I think it has that really fun, lots of current references. Obviously it's fake. It's not the real Taylor and Travis.

Alison Stewart: Maybe. [laughs]

Leah Koch: It's a very fun imagining of what that could be like.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. How does the workplace fit into this novel? You're talking about them being publicists. Do we get to see behind the scenes?

Leah Koch: Oh, yes. Absolutely. It's all about them managing crisis after crisis, interviews when the fake Taylor Swift shows up at one of his football games. It's very much a semi-realistic peek behind the curtain in terms of being around that world.

Alison Stewart: Finally, you mentioned this earlier, but I want to get to it, Alexis Hall. Tell us about their books.

Leah Koch: Heather was mentioning loving a lot of historical romances. Alexis has a book called A Lady for a Duke, which is a trans historical romance which is so, so beautiful. It's a little bit more on the serious tone. I think, for me, I love reading queer romances that really embrace the tropes and conventions of the genre, don't run away from them, and really make them part of a queer story. There's also, if you're a fan of The Great British Bake Off, Alexis also has a GBBO inspired contemporary series about people who are on a fake version of The Great British Bake Off.

Alison Stewart: We got a lot of recommendations from Leah Koch. She is the co-founder and owner of the Ripped Bodice Bookstore. Thanks for walking us through some romantic novels.

Leah Koch: Absolutely my pleasure. Happy Galentine's Day and happy Valentine's Day tomorrow.

Alison Stewart: Coming up, we got a little Mardi Gras preview for you. We'll hear some New Orleans jazz live in studio with musician Julie Benko and her new album, Euphonic Gumbo. That's next after the news.