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Alison Stewart: This is All of It, on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you're here. On today's show, Michigan's governor, Gretchen Whitmer, joins me in studio. She's got a new book out, and she's also traveling the country on behalf of vice-president Kamala Harris. We'll talk to her about life in politics and what she's learning from voters.

Author Laurence Leamer wrote a book that the FX series The Swans is based on. It's titled Capote's Women: A True Story of Love, Betrayal, and a Swan Song for an Era. He joins me to talk about it. That's the plan. Let's get this started with a little tutorial on how to get started playing drums.

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I want you to cast your mind back to the pandemic lockdown, and remember one viral video we all watched, that gave us a whole lot of joy during a dark time. Remember when an enthusiastic British girl challenged Foo Fighters' Dave Grohl to a drum challenge, and the girl could play like a pro? That girl was Nandi Bushell. Those videos changed her life and allowed her to perform in front of huge venues, in front of thousands of people, alongside rock stars, like Grohl, and Lenny Kravitz.

Nandi is now 14 years old and still passionate about playing the drums, as well as other instruments. Nandi is not only a musician, she's also now an author. She's written a new kids book called The Life-Changing Magic of Drumming. I'm so excited to say that Nandi is with me in studio, to talk about the book, and she's also at her drum kit, so we'll get to hear her play. Nandi, welcome to WNYC.

Nandi Bushell: Hi.

Alison Stewart: So nice to meet you.

Nandi Bushell: Nice to meet you.

Alison Stewart: When you started drumming, you were a little guy, like five years old. You got a toy kit, two tom-toms. Couldn't stop playing it, to the point where you actually broke through.

Nandi Bushell: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think you were so interested in drums?

Nandi Bushell: I could express myself. I could let it all out, but when I watched Ringo Starr playing for The Beatles, I saw him with a smile on his face, and it made me smile. That's why I love drumming.

Alison Stewart: The book isn't just about your story, it's also full of lessons about drumming. Based on your experience, what was the most important lesson you learned that helped you in your becoming an early drummer?

Nandi Bushell: There were lots of very important lessons, like having fun, because what's the point of doing it if you're not having fun?

Alison Stewart: I agree.

Nandi Bushell: To practice, practice, practice, because if you don't practice, you can't progress. Don't be afraid to ask for what you want, because when I asked Dave Grohl, when I challenged him to a drum battle, I never thought that he would respond. Just don't be afraid. Just go for it. You never know what might happen.

Alison Stewart: How do you stay motivated to practice? Practicing is hard.

Nandi Bushell: Yes, it is. At school, it's more difficult to practice. Now I'm on summer holidays, I'm practicing drums more often. I'd say have a goal, because I have a goal right now, I'm trying to learn a really, really difficult solo. And that's what keeps me motivated, knowing that, in a few months time, I will have got this, if I practice.

Alison Stewart: Most of us are righties or lefties, but obviously, you play with both hands. What are the most helpful practices to try to improve with both hands?

Nandi Bushell: Paradiddles, because you start with either hand, so it helps with your coordination.

Alison Stewart: To drumming?

Nandi Bushell: Yes. Rudiments. There's several types of paradiddles. Reverse paradiddle, double paradiddle, triple. Just getting a basic backbeat going. Singles, doubles, triples.

Alison Stewart: All right, we're going to go back to the basic beat. We're going to start the basics. I'm going to ask, on page eight and nine, you provide the lesson for basic beats. Would you mind demonstrating for us how you do that?

Nandi Bushell: Yes. Okay.

Alison Stewart: Okay. Explain what you're doing while you're doing it.

Nandi Bushell: I'm just going to give a quick demo of what a basic beat sounds like. Okay, let's start on the hi-hat. We have one, two, three, four. These are crotchets. Crotchets are worth one beat. I don't know what it is in American terms, but crotchets are worth one beat. One bar is worth four beats. We're going to do four taps on the hi-hat, one, two, three, four, and on the second and fourth beat, you add the snare. This is the snare. We're going to go one, two, so the snare and the hi-hat play at the same time.

One, two, three, four, one, two, three, four, and then the bass drum is added on beats one and three. One, two, three, four, one, two, three, four. That's a basic beep. If you want to double it, one, two, three, and four, the one, two, three, and four, is quavers, and they're worth half a beat. Basically, you just-- One, two, three, and four, but the snare is still on the two and four, and the bass is on the one and three. One, two, three, and four, and one, two, three, and four.

Alison Stewart: You would make an excellent teacher.

Nandi Bushell: Really? I don't think I'm very good at teaching.

Alison Stewart: I think you did a great job explaining it. My guest is Nandi Bushell. She's a 14-year-old drummer, actor, and now author, who went viral a few years back, for actually challenging Dave Grohl. She's written a new kids book called The Life-Changing Magic of Drumming. We understand that you'll have an in-person performance tomorrow, at Barnes & Noble. Wanda mentioned that. We're going to let you just play. We'll let you back play, and we'll talk about it on the other side. I'm just going to let you go for it.

Nandi Bushell: Right. I'm going to do a solo. I'm just going to move the mic.

Alison Stewart: All right.

[drumming]

There you go. That was Nandi Bushell. When did you actually realize you were good at drumming? Take off your humble hat. When did you realize you were good at it?

Nandi Bushell: I don't know.

Alison Stewart: When did you know--?

Nandi Bushell: I've never thought about it like that. I never was like, "Oh, I'm pretty good." I don't know.

Alison Stewart: When did you first get calluses on your hand? That's a big thing with drummers.

Nandi Bushell: Oh, yes, blisters. Maybe when I was nine. I might have been doing Slipknot when I was nine. I was definitely doing something heavy-handed. I think when I was practicing Everlong, I would get blisters on my fingers. Now, if I do it, I'll be fine, because I built up that stamina in my hands, and sometimes I get them on my feet, too, if I'm practicing my double pedals.

Alison Stewart: People can hear you're a little out of breath. You use your whole body when you play drums, right?

Nandi Bushell: It's kind of a workout.

Alison Stewart: If you go online and you look up your name, there's lots of videos of well-known drummers giving you advice. Chad Smith. Love Chad Smith. When you think about the advice that they've given you, what's something you've learned from those sessions?

Nandi Bushell: Well, Questlove-- I always use this motto now, and I've said it before, when I met Questlove when I was nine, he signed my drumsticks and he said, to an amazing drummer, practice, practice, practice. I always took that from him. I learned lots of technique when I was with Chad Smith. What I've also taken from them is that they're just really, really nice people, like Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters, really chill to be around.

Alison Stewart: That's got to matter, though, that they're chill to be around, that they're not all tough people. Tough people to talk to.

Nandi Bushell: Yes, they're really nice. Everyone I've met.

Alison Stewart: We've been talking about rock stars. Some people are jazz aficionados. How does a jazz groove compare in drumming, compared to the rock? You've been doing mostly the rock, but when you're thinking about playing jazz, how does it change?

Nandi Bushell: Time signatures. It's in swing. It takes a bit more technique and stamina, because when I did Caravan, it took me three months to learn, and there was ten pieces of sheet music.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my gosh.

Nandi Bushell: I know. Yes, probably technique, time signature, just takes lots of practice, but with any piece, it just takes lots of practice.

Alison Stewart: You also play other instruments. Why do you think it's important for you to expand, to not just be a drummer, but to be a saxophonist?

Nandi Bushell: To write music, because I want to be a one-woman band. Well, I'm forming a band right now, but it's nice to write everything myself. If I play all these instruments, then I can do that. Also, it's lots of fun to practice other instruments. I play guitar, bass, saxophone, piano. I have singing lessons now. Drums, flute. I feel like there's more, but I can't remember.

Alison Stewart: I think you are a woman band, actually, with all those different things. My guest is Nandi Bushell. She's a 14-year-old drummer. She has written a children's book called The Life-Changing Magic of Drumming. She's also at her drum kit, giving us a special live performance. As you were writing the book, what did you want the goal for the book to be? You said that goals were really important.

Nandi Bushell: To make sure everyone knows that playing an instrument is just lots of fun, but also takes practice. I wanted to inspire people, whatever age, to pick up an instrument.

Alison Stewart: When you were in the lockdown and you were thinking about all these people seeing your videos-- Well, were you thinking people were going to see your video challenging Dave Grohl?

Nandi Bushell: I'm not sure. I can't remember. I definitely didn't think that he was going to respond. Yes, but it was amazing when he did.

Alison Stewart: How did you find out he did?

Nandi Bushell: I can't remember.

Alison Stewart: Did somebody call you and say, "Nandi, guess what?"

Nandi Bushell: I think my dad called me. It's so long ago now, but I think my dad called me.

Alison Stewart: Dad, was it you? It was dad. Okay, dad's here.

Nandi Bushell: Yes, I think I was just in shock, and he came back with Dead End Friends, by Them Crooked Vultures. I learned it in a few days, then took it back to him, and then-- Did he write a song, after? Yes, he wrote a song called Nandi for me, which is insane. I went to a studio in London to record it and then sent it back to him. Then he admitted defeat on a chat show.

Alison Stewart: We should say, your dad is here and he's been really instrumental in your love of drums. Not just playing drums, but your love of drums. How has your dad been important to you, through this whole thing? From the beginning, to-- you're sitting here now, playing in front of hundreds of thousands of people?

Nandi Bushell: Well, he always motivates me. He's always there for me. He sets up my drum kit, even though he's not a drummer, he's just somehow learned. He picks up playing really well. And he made me listen to The Beatles when I was younger, which just inspired me to start playing the drums. I guess it's him pushing good music on me, basically, started all of this.

Alison Stewart: You wrote a song for your dad, which was really, really lovely, about mental health. What did that song do for him? What did that song do for you?

Nandi Bushell: Yes. I wrote a song called The Shadows for my dad when he was going through depression, just to make him feel better. I definitely did think it makes him feel better, and he always gets emotional when we talk about it. I released it because I wanted people to know that they're not alone if they're suffering with mental health issues.

Alison Stewart: And you've been writing about climate change, things that are very important to your generation. Why do you believe it's important to shout out, to write songs about big issues like climate change, about depression?

Nandi Bushell: Just to spread awareness.

Alison Stewart: Yes. My guest is Nandi Bushell. She is a 14-year-old drummer. Her name of her new book is The Life-Changing Magic of Drumming. You can see her, I think it's at the Barnes & Noble, tomorrow night. She'll be performing. What's your advice to a beginning musician? Someone is listening to you. They're thinking, "I'm going to get drums, I'm going to get into it." What is your advice for a beginner? How to start?

Nandi Bushell: If you pick drums and you really wanted to pick it, that's always a good start. You wanted to pick it. No one's forcing you to do it. That's always a good start. Maybe get a teacher, just to teach you music theory, and how to read music. Practice, jam with other people, because it's always good to surround yourself with other musicians, and, of course, have fun.

Alison Stewart: We got a text from one of our listeners that says, "I'm playing drums in a big show on Saturday. What can I do for my stage fright?"

Nandi Bushell: : I don't really get stage fright, because I'm more scared of forgetting my homework, or going in lifts or elevators. I'd say--

Alison Stewart: Oh, you're scared of elevators?

Nandi Bushell: Yes. I'm in New York, so it's great. I would say, just take a deep breath, and just know that everything's going to be-- This is not great advice.

Alison Stewart: No, it's good advice. Go ahead.

Nandi Bushell: It's going to be all right. Just don't think about the audience. Think about-- you're playing in front of a huge gig, and that's just an amazing experience. Just don't think about the nerves. Just think, "This is an amazing experience," and enjoy it, because you're going to look back and you're going to be like, "Oh, I was nervous, but I wish I enjoyed it." Just know that it's an incredible experience if you're playing in a huge gig.

Alison Stewart: Great advice. Did you have that sort of nervousness when you were playing some of these big venues, with these big artists?

Nandi Bushell: I was excited. I wasn't nervous. I think there was a lot of adrenaline. I don't remember being nervous when I played at Wembley or The Forum, I was just so excited.

Alison Stewart: You're taking care of your body. We talked about the blisters. We talked about you being a little out of breath because you're using a lot of energy to play the drums. How do you take care of yourself to make sure that everything's okay? I see that you have earbuds in your ears.

Nandi Bushell: Yeah, I have ear protection so I don't get tinnitus. That's really important because you don't want to damage your ears. What else do I do? I guess I take breaks. If you're practicing too much, it can be a lot, but sometimes the best thing to do, if you've been practicing a while and you haven't got it, is just to take a break. Come back later, and you probably realize that you've got it. To take breaks is important. Yes.

Alison Stewart: What is the hardest thing you're working on? And can you show us a little bit of it while you're working on it?

Nandi Bushell: Okay. Okay. I'm working on this solo by Eloy. He's the new drummer of Slipknot, and it's on Drumeo, so anyone listening can go check it out. Eloy solo, he did it when he was 14-years-old. Honestly, if you watch it, it's insane. This solo, he created himself, with another drummer, when he was 14, and he redid it on Drumeo. I don't know if I can--

Alison Stewart: You don't want to play it? You don't have to, if you don't want to. You don't want to? It's okay.

Nandi Bushell: It's a work in progress, but it might come out next year. I'm trying to do it before I turn 15, so maybe this or next year, it'll be out.

Alison Stewart: All right. That's a good tease. That was a good tease. Is there anything you wanted to tell us about your book before we wrap it up?

Nandi Bushell: Yes. Like you said, there's a book signing tomorrow at Barnes & Noble's, Upper West Side. I just wanted to inspire people, any age, to start playing an instrument, and I hope you all enjoy it.

Alison Stewart: My guest has been Nandi Bushell. You can see her tomorrow at Barnes & Noble, which is on the Upper West Side. We're going to go out on you playing Caravan. Nandi, it was a real pleasure to have you here, so glad to see you.

Nandi Bushell: Thank you for having me.

[MUSIC - Duke Ellington: Caravan]

 

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