Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Let's talk about obsessions. Here are some of the things that members of Team All Of It are obsessed with. Birding, thrifting old ties, cryptic crosswords, the history of Tudor England, and afternoon tea. Longtime NPR host David Greene has some fixations of his own, and he was interested in learning about what other people are obsessive about.

We started a podcast called David Greene Is Obsessed. David interviews interesting people about their private fascinations, like David Arquette, who became so obsessed with Bozo the Clown that he actually bought the IP, or like a man in Singapore who owns thousands of Barbie dolls. David Greene Is Obsessed is available to listen to now wherever you get your podcast or to stream on YouTube. David Greene joins me. Hi, David.

David Greene: Alison, it's been an age. How are you?

Alison Stewart: I am doing well. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What is something that you are obsessed with right now? Maybe you collect something, or you're a fanatical fan, or maybe you just really love learning about a certain topic. We want to know what you're obsessed with right now. Our phone lines are open. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. David, how did you get interested in obsessions?

David Greene: I just have so many of them, I had to somehow make sense of them, I think. It started with a conversation, probably a couple years ago, with a friend of mine who was suggesting that I should do a book about sports in Pittsburgh because I am a die-hard Pittsburgh sports fan. I was like, "Where's the book going to go?" He was like, "You could explore your identity because clearly you were in public radio for a long time. You consider yourself an intellectual. You're not like the normal sports fan. This obsession has to be about you trying to prove yourself and be like the guy who wants to drink beer at a Steelers bar on Sundays." I was furious at him.

I was like, "No, no, this is what I'm doing because I love it. There's no overthinking identity. There's no place I would rather be on a Sunday at 1:00 PM than in a Steelers bar with my people watching the Steelers game, screaming my face off, and slamming beer bottles occasionally when the Steelers defense is totally terrible." He noticed. He and I both looked at each other, and it was like, "Oh my God, there's a lot to unpack here. David is getting so defensive about this. What is going on?"

I just realized there's so much behind my obsession with sports and the Steelers. It's nostalgia. It's my relationship to my late mother because she was my favorite Steelers fan to watch games with. I just realized like, "What's everyone's obsession or obsessions, and what does it say about them? What do our obsessions say about ourselves?"

Alison Stewart: What is the difference between a passion or an interest versus an obsession?

David Greene: Oh my God. You are asking like the $10-million question that I've been trying to figure out. This is such a crazy space to come up with one definition. I started with Merriam-Webster, and they said an obsession is when you're preoccupied with or haunted by some idea, some interest, et cetera. The et cetera is really important because there are more things in the world than just ideas and interests. Sometimes you're haunted, and sometimes you're preoccupied.

I really think it's what you make of the word yourself. It can be a passion and an obsession. It can be an Uber passion that becomes an obsession. It's really to me just like a window, inviting people to explore themselves and things that they get into and can't let go of. It can be dangerous, it can be joyous, it can be addictive, and become a problem. You as someone who loves interviewing as much as I do, it's like a way to open a conversation that gets someone very quickly to hopefully be vulnerable and talk about something that they're really connected to.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting, the word haunted by got me in that right there.

David Greene: Yes, there's something about that.

Alison Stewart: There is something about the idea that a subject just haunts you, no matter where you are.

David Greene: Yes. That can be dark. Actually, I'm not going to lie, the whole obsession question since I've been doing this show has entered conversations with my therapist when I've been going back and exploring my own-- I don't know if you call it obsession or addiction to pleasing people, which can really be problematic in relationships, which my wife and friends and my late mom could talk your ear off about. That's one that I think is haunting to me in some ways.

There's definitely a darker element of this, but it also, there are more fun elements, too, like Bozo the Clown and David Arquette. That's what I love. You never know where a conversation is going to go. We're asking serious questions about our humanity. It can also be something really fun. I think the consistent thing is there's always something unexpected. If you go into an obsession that you think is just on the surface or weird or wild, you're going to learn something about yourself.

Alison Stewart: David, let's take a couple of calls. Let's talk to Lisa, who's calling from New York City. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for taking the time to call All Of It.

Lisa: Hi. Thank you. Thank you for this segment.

Alison Stewart: Tell us what your current obsession is.

David Greene: Lisa, what's your obsession?

Lisa: Okay, so my current obsession is F1--

Alison Stewart: Car racing.

David Greene: Nice.

Lisa: Yes. I got into it during COVID. I'm actually going to my first race in Austin next year, and I listen to podcasts. I have a magazine subscription. I ride on board with different drivers. It's just I'm very obsessed with it.

Alison Stewart: That's wild. Lisa, thank you for joining us. You know what's interesting, David? Do you think COVID had something to do with people diving into their obsessions?

David Greene: I think so. I'm going to admit this, red wine during COVID became an obsession that has lasted. I used to not be a huge red wine drinker, but there was something about a bottle of red wine with my wife or friends in those dark late nights when we were isolating, and that has stayed with me since. I love Lisa's F1. I've gone through a similar thing with wrestling recently. I was never really into it, but have had a couple of conversations with different people who are obsessed with wrestling, including Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins, for this show. That is going to be one of our episodes. He's really into wrestling, and I'm intrigued by it now. I always thought it was this fake entertainment thing, not really athletic, not really a sport. It's growing on me.

Alison Stewart: Yes. There's an episode where you talk about football with celebrity chef Michael Simon, who's obsessed with the Cleveland Browns, who have never gone to the Super Bowl. Honestly, his fandom seems to cause him a little bit of pain. Why do you think people remain obsessed to something--

David Greene: Yes, [unintelligible 00:07:40]

Alison Stewart: It isn't necessarily fun.

David Greene: No. Going through it-- I'm a Pittsburgh Pirates fan, which we talk about baseball--

Alison Stewart: [unintelligible 00:07:50] right now.

David Greene: It's not the greatest thing. I mean, the Pirates-

Alison Stewart: Oh, Pirates.

David Greene: -the Browns are worse. Yes. I can understand that because they are a perennially last-place team. I will still lay in bed at night with my MLB app watching my Pirates, and it's like, "Why? Why am I torturing myself?"

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a little bit of your interview with Michael talking about how his obsession with the Cleveland Browns actually helped him bond with his dad. This is from the podcast David Greene is Obsessed.

Michael: My dad was not warm and fuzzy. My mom was warm and fuzzy. With sports, there was always a very warm connection. Even though, if you were to hug my dad or give him a kiss, you could feel the tension in him. He just wasn't a warm and fuzzy guy. He was loving, but he just wasn't warm and fuzzy. My grandfather was a pipe fitter. He was tough. Like you grew up in Johnstown, like a tough blue-collar town. He was a tough guy in a tough blue-collar town. He had a softness to him with me. Yes, I don't know. I don't know if that was built through sports or that connection through sports, or it was always an easy-- Sports were always an easy connection to the male figures in our lives.

Alison Stewart: How do you think obsessions can connect us with other people?

David Greene: It's just like Michael described, Alison. I loved that conversation because it was a space where he could feel tenderness in a relationship where it was just hard to find. Sports opened the door to that because it was just this shared love. I think that happens a lot. One of my big obsessions is karaoke and karaoke bars. I think if you're uncomfortable being around strangers and talking to people you don't know, and have some social anxiety, like I do.

Suddenly, you're just singing in this space, and everyone is vulnerable. Even though there's some really good singers and then some like me who aren't good singers, you're just doing the same thing and celebrating one another for vulnerability. Suddenly, you see people just start talking to one another and approaching strangers after they leave the stage. It's like karaoke has just opened doors that nothing else can. I think sports did it for Michael. I think you just think about-- When you establish something that you share, it's an instant place to go in a conversation or in a relationship.

Alison Stewart: My guest is David Greene. We're talking about his new podcast, David Greene is Obsessed, where David interviews interesting people about their obsessions. We're taking your calls. What are you currently obsessed with? Our number is 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Let's talk to Jim in Pearl River. Hi, Jim, thanks for calling All Of It.

Jim Riley: Hi, good afternoon, I'm Jim Riley. I'm an attorney who semi-retired. For the last 30 years, I've been studying gavels, gavels used by judges, gavels used by heads of town boards, city councils, boards of education. I started, back in the late '80s, writing for every major museum in the United States. Smithsonian, LBJ Museum, State of Texas Museum, George Bush. George W. Bush replied to me as governor of Texas to my letter, "Do you have any gavels in the State of Texas Museum?"

I have a Harry Truman gavel. I do a little collecting, not much, but when Harry Truman redid the White House, he took the wood and distributed it as gavels. The Truman gavels in a couple beautiful forms. They have great shapes. I've been studying them. It's almost an obsession. About 15 years ago, I saw an auction. I didn't buy a lot, but on eBay, it's a good way to study. There was an auction in Poughkeepsie, a Livingston family gavel. I bought it for 400 after calling a bunch of museums, saying, "You should buy this gavel." My study indicates that it's the earliest used gavel in the United States, used by Walter Livingston.

David Greene: What? Jim, that's crazy. You have the oldest gavel used in the US.

Alison Stewart: That's an amazing story. Wow.

David Greene: I love that.

Alison Stewart: It's also interesting, the internet really helps us with our obsessions, doesn't it?

David Greene: Yes, totally does. Jim, that's an obsession I love. I can't wait to see some pick. I'm going to think about gavel now in ways I never have and wonder why people choose certain styles of gavels. This is really amazing.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want you to join the conversation. What are you currently obsessed with? We'll have more with David Greene. His new podcast is David Greene is Obsessed. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is David Greene. We're talking about his new podcast, David Greene is Obsessed, where David interviews interesting people about their obsessions. David, you spoke to a man who has the second-largest collection of Barbies on Earth. How many Barbies does he have?

David Greene: Oh, my God, I can't remember the number. We're talking about more than you could ever imagine. Thousands and thousands of Barbie dolls. Many of them were behind him when we were on screen. It is such a surprising conversation, that is a wild obsession. We get into talking about marketing, we get into talking about masculinity. Some hard moments that his family went through when people judged them for having a son who was obsessed with Barbie dolls. It gets real.

Yes, that was just one of those conversations that starts somewhere. Like, "I obsess with Barbie dolls." The thing I wanted to ask him was if he's mad about the person who has the most Barbie doll collections in the entire world. He's number two. He said he's cool with it.

Alison Stewart: Part of his personality is owning all these Barbies. What was interesting you about someone whose public identity is about their obsession?

David Greene: That's one of the really fascinating things because, Michael Simon, celebrity chef, we're not talking about food and his great restaurants. We're talking about sports. David Arquette, we're not talking about acting. We're talking about Bozo the Clown. Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins, we're not talking about his music, we're talking about wrestling. I think you end up learning about the whole person, and sometimes the conversation loops back to the thing they are really known for. You just understand them at a deeper level.

I think that's one of the things I've loved about this. So often, we bring on someone who's known, and we talk about their latest book or their latest movie or their latest album. This takes the conversation somewhere different immediately, and we get right to the unexpected window into someone's soul, and then come back to maybe the thing that they're known for, and we understand that better. It's just a different trajectory and path of interviews that makes it feel different, I hope. It's been a lot of fun to do.

Alison Stewart: Let's take a couple calls. Let's talk to Shreya from Princeton, New Jersey. Hi, Shreya. Thank you so much for calling All Of It. What are you obsessed with?

Shreya: Hi. My not-so-latest, but definitely an interest that picked up during the pandemic. My obsession is romance novels.

David Greene: Love it.

Alison Stewart: What do you like about them?

Shreya: I mean, they're fun, they're romantic. I feel like it's so topical right now because of the popularity of Heated Rivalry, which is a TV show about two queer hockey players and the love that grows between them over the years. It's currently airing right now. It's definitely picked up. I feel like it's just something that's so fun and topical right now.

Alison Stewart: How much do you have in your collection? How many books?

Shreya: In the last two years, since I've started working and earning a steady paycheck, over 200.

Alison Stewart: Nice. Shreya, thanks.

David Greene: Good number. I feel like romance novels are such an escape. They're just such an escape to dive into an intimate story or-- I don't know, there's something beautiful about it. I can just sit on a beach and really just go to a different place in a romance novel.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Carol from Englewood, New Jersey. Hi, Carol. Thank you for making the time to call All Of It. We want to hear about what you're obsessed with.

Carol: My obsession is raising dogs to be service dogs for people who are disabled. I work with Canine Companions, which is the largest service dog organization in the country. My obsession has turned into the fact that I am raising my 17th dog now.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that sounds so great.

David Greene: Oh, Carol, that's amazing. I have a friend who does that, and it's her obsession, too. I'm so curious because, you don't get to keep these dogs forever. You get really deep into these relationships, and then you move on, and they become service dogs for someone else. How do you manage the becoming obsessed with one dog who you've gotten so close to?

Alison Stewart: Oh, could you put it up there?

Carol: In the beginning, I thought that was going to be a major problem, but once I met the people who got the dog, I was absolutely fine with it. These people have now become my friends, and they are so grateful for their dogs. It's awesome. Awesome.

David Greene: Sounds like a cool community.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Thank you for calling in. Let's talk to Kashish from Nevada City, California. Hi, Kashish.

Kashish: Hi. Thank you for having me on air.

Alison Stewart: Of course.

Kashish: My obsession, which I think I share with a lot of people these days, is attending spirits auctions. I started in 2018 when I was living in the Bay Area, and started with attending two online auctions. Then quickly, by the end of 2019, I was attending five online auctions for whiskeys and rum. Currently, I attend about seven online auctions and go through almost 30,000 to 50,000 bottles every month. Reviewing bottles.

Alison Stewart: Are you drinking these bottles?

Kashish: No. For me, the fascinating part about spirits is how they're produced, with whiskeys, how they're aged. It actually inspired me to launch my own company. This month, we're launching our own company of Nepali rice spirits here in America.

David Greene: Congratulations.

Kashish: It's an interesting journey, but-- Thank you so much. It's called the Nepali Spirit Company, and it's rice whiskeys. That became an obsession because rice whiskeys were made in Kathmandu, Nepal, about a thousand years ago. It's been pretty much unchanged in the way it's been made since. I tried to take it in new directions with our company. Now my wife also joins me in these auctions, and we try and buy very vintage spirits. We have a 1903 Mount Vernon Rye that apparently originated from the seller of J.P. Morgan.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Kashish: We have grand Champagne from the 1800s, and we recently managed to get a couple of actual prohibition era, 1920s smuggled Canadian whiskeys.

Alison Stewart: That sounds awesome. Good luck with your business. David, you interviewed David Arquette. You mentioned it. He became so obsessed with Bozo the Clown that he bought the IP, the intellectual property for it. He now owns Bozo the Clown.

David Greene: He owns Bozo. It's crazy. You start getting into understanding the quirks of David's personality that took him to owning Bozo the Clown. It gets more serious than you think. Yes, he was a really fun one to talk to. He loves being Bozo and loves the relationship between clowns and kids. Really cool conversation.

Alison Stewart: Earlier this week, I spoke with director Marshall Curry, who directed a new documentary about The New Yorker magazine. At one point in the conversation, he brought up obsessions. I want to play it for you, and we can talk about it on the other side. Let's listen.

Marshall Curry: I remember when I first got there, at one point, I wrote down a word and stuck it on my computer so that it would be my North Star. That word was 'obsession'. That the people who work at The New Yorker are obsessed. They are a fact checker. They have 27 fact-checkers on staff who are obsessed with fact-checking. They're obsessed with writing. They have multi-hour sessions where they go paragraph by paragraph to make sure that every word is as precise and perfect.

They're obsessed with grammar, they're obsessed with deep reporting, with the way that the graphics on the covers come together. To me, that's what was so fun about making this film, was just watching this group of completely obsessed people put this magazine together every week.

Alison Stewart: What did you think about what Marshall said there about people who work at The New Yorker being completely obsessed?

David Greene: It's so interesting. It makes me love the magazine even more, knowing the amount of effort and work and passion that goes into it. I love people who love their craft. Isn't that aspirational for all of us to deeply, deeply love and be obsessed with the thing that we get to do? Interviews, it really is for me. I love the art of the conversation. I love navigating conversations and making people feel safe and drawing them out. That totally resonates with me. God, it makes me want to dive into the magazine even more and watch that film because-- People loving what they do and loving a craft, it's infectious. You feel like you're in it with them, I think.

Alison Stewart: You've talked about that, your love of interviewing, and you've worked in many years in audio at NPR. I noticed that this new podcast is filmed for YouTube, like so many podcasts are now.

David Greene: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Why have you thought about making the switch?

David Greene: It's a new thing.

Alison Stewart: What do you think about the making of switch to video?

David Greene: It's really hard. I thought about Terry Gross at Fresh Air, and a lot of what she said over time about when you're not on camera, you're able to really immerse in the conversation even more. I agree with that. There is something fun about looking into someone's eyes as you're doing a conversation like this. I think, especially when it comes to something like obsession, someone talking about something that they can't let go of, there's a lot in facial expressions, a lot of emotions that come through.

It's been fun. It's a whole new thing. I was told very quickly that I had to get the shine and grease off my face and put some powder on, and things that I never thought about doing Morning Edition for years in the middle of the night. That's been new, but it's been fun.

Alison Stewart: This text says, "John Water said, 'Life is nothing if you're not obsessed.' I agree. It's the mark of a passionate person."

David Greene: Yes, totally agree.

Alison Stewart: Can you give us any preview of what's coming up on the show?

David Greene: We have a politics episode. It's actually a-- I have two friends, Mo Elleithee and Sarah Isgur, who are long-time friends, long-time political operatives, and we're talking about obsession with politics and what that means in their lives.

Alison Stewart: What does that mean?

David Greene: I mean, it's a feeling of mission and the stakes. Sarah talked about that when a campaign is over, she really gets depressed and deflated. I compared it to wanting to go to cover conflict zones. It's just being in a place where the stakes are high, and your passion is really validated. You're doing something big. I think that's what a lot of people in politics feel and can't let go of.

Alison Stewart: The name of the podcast is David Greene Is Obsessed. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts. David, thank you so much for joining us and for taking listener calls.

David Greene: Thank you, Alison. Great to talk to you.