[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Silver Liner Notes is our series where we celebrate the anniversary of well-known albums. 25 years ago this month, Erykah Badu released Mama's Gun, her second album, which went platinum. Mama's Gun is one of the defining records of the neo soul movement that dominated the turn of the millennium. It was a new era of music, but it was steeped in history. Here's how the album opens with the song called Penitentiary Philosophy.

[MUSIC - Erykah Badu: Penitentiary Philosophy]

Erykah Badu: [sings]

Here's my philosophy

Livin' in the penitentiary

Brothers all on the corner

Tryin' to make believe

Turn around ain't got no pot to pee

Make me mad when I see ya sad

Can't stand to see ya hustle doin' bad

But you can't win when your will is weak

When you're knocked on the ground

Evil, don't you test me

Evil, you won't win

Oh why world

Why world

Do you want me to be so mad yeah

So mad yeah

Oh why world

Why world

Do you want me to be so mad yeah

So mad yeah

I'm tellin' you the truth

Alison Stewart: Much of Mama's Gun was created right here in New York at Electric Lady Studios in the Village. Now, Erykah Badu has had a lot of collaborators, but perhaps none as important as James Poyser, who Badu affectionately calls her quote, "studio husband". [laughter] James Poyser has performed and produced for many greats and is now the keyboardist for The Roots. You can see him tonight on The Tonight Show. We're excited to say that he is in studio to reflect on the 25th anniversary of Mama's Gun. Hi, James.

James Poyser: Hey. How're you doing, Alison?

Alison Stewart: I'm doing so well. By the way, you can see Erykah Badu perform as part of her Mama's Gun 25th Anniversary Tour at Kings Theater on December 5th and 6th. How often do you re-listen to this record?

James Poyser: I think I've listened to it every year, all the way through. I catch a song here and there on the radio, and I hear it, and just always brings back good memories.

Alison Stewart: What memories does it bring back of that time? What was going on 25 years ago in your life? [chuckles]

James Poyser: It was a period where a bunch of friends were together and we were making music that we loved. We were just having fun, experimenting, and taking our cues from each other, and just having a good time, again, creating sounds and sonics that we love.

Alison Stewart: The actual title is Mama's Gun. How did Erykah come up with the title for the album?

James Poyser: Well, she had become a new mother, and I think this was her-- Her words are gun, "I'm going to protect my child. I'm going to protect my peace. I'm going to protect who I am." I think that's the basis of that title.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. Are you a fan of Mama's Gun and Erykah Badu? What you remember feeling when you first heard this album? Call or text us now at 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Maybe you have a favorite song from Mama's Gun. Why do you think the album has remained so popular? Our number is 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Or maybe you have a question for James Poser about how the album was made or a story behind a song. Our phone number is 212-433-9692. What do you remember about the first time you heard Erykah Badu or her music?

James Poyser: Well, the first time was The Roots manager, Rich Nichols, called me up and said, "Hey, The Roots are working with this lady from Texas, and we're not figuring this out. We need some help. Can you come in the studio?" This was in Philly, the Sigma Studios in Philly. I came in and literally an hour later, we had got the concept and wrote the concept for Otherside of the Game. It was like instant love, in a sense, just like, "Okay, she's my girl. This is my sister," and it's just been a friendship that's just continued from then all the way to this day.

Alison Stewart: What have you learned about her skills as a writer?

James Poyser: She's going to be herself. You can't pigeonhole her, put into a box. She's going to be who Erykah is. Erykah is Erykah. [laughter] That's the best way to describe it. That's the only way to describe it. She's going to be true to herself. Again, she's not going to follow any trends or anything. Whatever she wants to happen, she's going to make happen for us all.

Alison Stewart: I believe you were on tour, the Voodoo Tour with D'Angelo. Rest in peace. When you had to leave to go record with Erykah, how difficult was it for you to leave such a famous tour to go work on this record?

James Poyser: Well, I was working on Erykah's album. We were writing a bunch of things before that. The plan was that I'd go on tour for three, four months, just the US leg of the tour, and then I'd go back. It was in the works, but again, the tour was-- oh, my gosh, it was so much fun. Rest in peace to my brother D'Lo. Just being on stage with these legends. Roy Hargrove, Questlove, Pino Palladino, Jeff Lee Johnston, Anthony Hamilton, Shelby, it was a whole lot of fun, a whole lot of musical fun just being on the stage, but I had to get to work. I had to get--

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] You said you had to get to work. [laughter] What do you mean you had to get to work?

James Poyser: Well, I was helping Erykah. Erykah is a doula. She helps childbirth. That was my role with her, in a sense, helping her birth her ideas. I knew that was something I really wanted to continue, so I had to leave the tour and come back to work.

Alison Stewart: What did Erykah express to you about her vision for Mama's Gun?

James Poyser: That her worldview at the moment, again, being a mother dealing with what's going on in the world with, of course, situation like Amadou Diallo being his murder, her relationship status at the time, all of those things came into play. It was just like, "Okay, what's the sonics behind all of that, and what's the music, and what do you want to hear musically?" It was just a whole lot of back and forth, me giving her options, her screaming at me. That studio husband thing means we're arguing.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: That's what studio husband means?

James Poyser: That's the studio husband. She gets to argue with me, and I have to take that and just take it for--

Alison Stewart: "James, I said this."

James Poyser: Pretty much.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking with Grammy award-winning musician James Poyser. He's here to reflect on the 25th anniversary of Mama's Gun by Erykah Badu as part of our Silver Liner Notes anniversary series. James produced the album with Erykah. We're also hearing from you. Are you a fan of Mama's Gun and Erykah Badu? What do you remember about the first time you heard the album? Do you have a favorite song?

Our Phone number is 212-433-9692. 212-433-WNYC. Let's listen to another song from the album. We're going to play Kiss Me on My Neck. What should we listen for in this song? What's interesting to you about this song?

James Poyser: Just the vibe of the music with the flute line and the bass line and just the funkiness of the drums and the bass. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: Let's listen.

[MUSIC - Erykah Badu: Kiss Me on My Neck]

Erykah Badu: [sings]

I want somebody to walk up behind me

And kiss me on my neck and breathe on my neck

I want somebody to walk up behind me

And kiss me on my neck and breathe on my neck

Been such a long time

I forgot that I was fine

Just kiss me on my neck and breathe on my neck

I want somebody to walk up behind me

And kiss me on my neck and breathe on my neck

If you want to feel me

Better be divine

Bring me water, water for my mind

Give me nothin'

Breathe love in my air

Don't abuse me

'Cause these herbs are rare

If you want to feel me

Better be divine

Bring me water, water for my mind

Give me nothin'

Breathe love in my air

Alison Stewart: James, who are her influences here?

James Poyser: Well, the part of the song is based off of a sample that we played, that Jack DeJeanette, rest in peace to him also, and JD, who's J Dilla, had to beat with that that we played over, myself, Questlove, and Pino Palladino. It was just funkiness. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: You know what's so interesting about her? Whenever I hear her sing, her diction is so clear, and it's so very her. I don't really have a question, but it's Erykah Badu, and everything is so clear. Every lyric, she wants to make sure that you hear her.

James Poyser: Absolutely, and it's funny because she sings with a mic inside of the studio room, not in the booth.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wait.

James Poyser: I mean, she's recorded in the booth, but she prefers to sing outside.

Alison Stewart: Really?

James Poyser: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What does that do to the sound?

James Poyser: It obviously works for her. It takes maybe a little studio manipulation, but that's just the way she-- she feels the music that way.

Alison Stewart: She wants to be with people?

James Poyser: No. Well, she's just in there. Her and the engineer.

Alison Stewart: Oh, so she doesn't want to be boxed in. She just want to be in a studio?

James Poyser: Maybe so, yes.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that's interesting, huh?

James Poyser: I've never really inquired. I was just like, "Oh, that's just Erykah being Erykah.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: I feel like you say that a lot, "That's just Erykah being Erykah."

James Poyser: Oh, trust me, that's it. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: When did you realize Mama's Gun was going to be as big a hit as it was going to be?

James Poyser: I knew that the music was good, that the songwriting was great. I guess I didn't really put much emphasis on will it be a hit or be whatever, but I'd know that she has a legion of fans that just love everything she does, coming back from the first album, Baduizm, into her live album. I knew she had a legion of fans that were expecting some more music, so I knew it would be successful.

Alison Stewart: Do you remember hearing it in some place that surprised you?

James Poyser: Hearing it in restaurants and so forth, it's not really a surprise, but just hearing is always a good feeling, like, "Oh, yes, I remember this. I remember what happened here." I remember those kind of things.

Alison Stewart: That's me who does that. [laughs]

James Poyser: I almost-- I ain't going to say I almost died, but-- [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Tell me.

James Poyser: The last few weeks where there's a lot of pressure by the label because there was a specific schedule to make the CDs. This is ancient times.

Alison Stewart: I understand.

James Poyser: [laughs] It was a lot of stress while we were working in literally four studios at the same time. We had three rooms at Electric Lady, and we had another room at Hit Factory. It was just nonstop work for me, and for the last month or so, and I had a stress attack. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Really?

James Poyser: Yes. The top half of my body stopped working, and I had to go to the hospital to get on an EKG and yada, yada.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my gosh, so you were just working along, and it just stopped?

James Poyser: Yes, it was just one of those things. It was just like-- it was Erykah being Erykah. [laughter]

Alison Stewart: You're in the doctors, and what do the doctors say to you?

James Poyser: Just like, "Yo, just slow down, calm down some."

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] "Just calm down"?

James Poyser: I was like, "Oh, well, I can't really do that right now. [laughter] We've got to get this thing done." It turned out okay, but I like to tease her like, "You almost killed me."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: "Erykah, you almost killed me." I'm speaking with Grammy-winning musician James Poyser. We're reflecting on the 25th anniversary of Mama's Gun by Erykah Badu. You've played with so many greats over the year. What specifically have you learned about music and creativity from Erykah?

James Poyser: Just let it flow and don't be afraid. Don't put yourself in a box, and whatever you're feeling is right. You know what I'm saying? If you feel it and you love it, then it's right. [unintelligible 00:14:07].

Alison Stewart: Let's play another song. Didn't Cha Know. This is produced by J Dilla? Yes? Okay. What was your first reaction when you first heard it?

James Poyser: I was like, "Ooh, it needs Rhodes and it needs synths on it," because I wanted to play on it, [laughs] so I [crosstalk]. [laughs] It's such a great song, just something that she did with Dilla in Detroit. It's just a beautiful sample, and you know what I mean, Dilla is just Dilla.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen. Didn't Cha Know.

[MUSIC - Erykah Badu: Didn't Cha Know]

Erykah Badu: [sings]

Ayy-ay

Ooh, hey

I'm trying to decide

Which way to go

I think I made a wrong turn back there somewhere

Ooh, hey

I'm trying to decide

Which way to go

I think I made a wrong turn back there somewhere

Didn't cha' know, didn't cha' know

Tried to move, but I lost my way

Didn't cha' know, didn't cha' know

Stopped to watch my emotions sway

Didn't cha' know, didn't cha' know

Knew the toll, but I would not pay

Didn't cha' know, didn't cha' know

That you never know where the cards may lay

Time to save the world

Where in the world is all the time?

So many things I still don't know

So many times I've changed my mind

Guess I was born to make mistakes

But I ain't scared to take the weight

So when I stumble off the path--

Alison Stewart: That's Didn't Cha Know from Erykah Badu. We have a question here. It's a text. It says, "One of my favorite albums of all time, start to finish, including the track order. The liner notes in the version I have list the songs in a different order than they appear on the CD. Can you have James talk about that further?"

James Poyser: Again, like I said, we were on a deadline from the label that wanted to schedule the pressing of this, and everything was really pushed. Again, four studios, it was just a hectic time, so Erykah wrote out a listing and then changed her mind, but it was already too late because the artwork and everything had gone in. I think she put an apology letter inside of the [laughs] CDs too, that said, "We'll get it right on the next pressing."

Alison Stewart: I wanted to get serious and talk about A.D. 2000. It's a song inspired by the death of Amadou Diallo, who was shot 19 times by NYPD officers in 1999. Why was Erykah inspired to make this song?

James Poyser: The feeling at the time, everybody was affected by that. It was a horrible incident, and it really shook all of us. You're not a human if it doesn't shake you, so she wrote that song along with Betty Wright. Rest in peace to Betty Wright. I think that song is my favorite on the album.

Alison Stewart: Yes?

James Poyser: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen.

James Poyser: Oh.

Alison Stewart: Hope you got it.

[MUSIC - Erykah Badu: A.D. 2000]

Erykah Badu: [sings]

No you won't be naming no buildings after me

To go down dilapidated ooh

No you won't be naming no buildings after me

My name will be misstated, surely

This world done changed

So much yeah yeah

This world done changed

Since I been conscious

This world done changed

So much yeah yeah

This world done changed

Since I been conscious

Oh, what in the world will we do?

Will we ever make it, yeah

Oh, yeah know it ain't right

Oh, is it in your plan?

Alison Stewart: [crosstalk] favorite of your-- on the album for you. Why was that?

James Poyser: I Remember how we recorded that. We were in Electric Lady, myself, Pino, Questlove, Erykah. It had to be 3:00, 4:00 in the morning. Erykah was like, "I got the song I want to play on guitar, but I'm nervous." I like, "No, come on, Erykah, play." The way Erykah plays guitar, she sits an acoustic guitar on her lap and strums. You can't really see this, but she moves her finger up and down.

Alison Stewart: I got you. It's like this horizontal on your lap.

James Poyser: Exactly. She was like, "I got this song, but I'm not really a musician to play." I said, "Come on, Erykah, just play it." She starts playing it, and we start coming in, playing along with her. Pino's playing, I'm playing, Ahmir. She's like, "Oh, this sounds great. Oh, cool." We've been playing it for playing it for five minutes, and she says, "James, drop out. Oh, this? Yes, this sounds good. Pino, drop out. Oh, this sounds good," and plays, and it's only Quest her playing, and she said, "Ahmir, drop out." She's like, "Yes, this sounds better."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: You got her where she needed to go, right?

James Poyser: Yes.

Alison Stewart: You supported her and then you pulled back.

James Poyser: Exactly.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think this album is one that people still want to listen to?

James Poyser: I say this, and I've said it. It's Erykah. People love her. There's something about her. Her honesty in who she is, her humor, and that comes through in the music. It's nothing fake about it. Something is innate in us that we go towards truthful things and honest things. There's something about her, and musically, she makes these great choices. That's my girl.

Alison Stewart: This says, "I was just watching Erykah's anniversary show thing for this album on Spotify. It was great. I've always loved her use of jazz flute, especially in this album. Can you speak to the flute on this album? Favorite song is probably Green Eyes."

James Poyser: Green Eyes. Dwayne played flute on this. Yes, she uses flute a lot in her live shows. Just something about it, there's something about an instrument just works well with her voice and with the sonics of her music. Green Eyes is another favorite of mine also, and if I remember correctly, the woodwinds were again, Dwayne, and also the horns-- I'm sorry, Roy Hargrove and Jacques Schwarz-Bart played on that. That was a really memorable session also, recording that song, just the concept to that song being three movements and what it went through and all that.

Alison Stewart: My guest has been James Poyser. He was here to help us reflect on the 25th anniversary of Mama's Gun. It was a pleasure to meet you.

James Poyser: Likewise. Thank you for having me.