Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In 2016, my next guest underwent surgery that left her unable to hear music as more than harsh metallic sounds. A few years later, she became the first Asian American woman to be nominated for a Grammy for best Electronic Dance album. This month, she released a new album called Eternal Reverie. For another edition of our series, Equalizers: Women in Music Production. Here's the song, Switch It from TOKiMONSTA.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: Switch It]

Alison: DJ and producer Jennifer Lee, AKA Toki, has been a leader in electronic music and hip hop for the last decade and a half. She was the first woman signed the music label Brainfeeder, founded by influential producer Flying Lotus. Her latest album is a celebration of music as a gift. In the process of making it, she deliberately set aside time from touring and other commitments. Jennifer's also produced a number of other artists and runs her own label, Young Art Records. Toki, welcome to All Of It.

Jennifer Lee: Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Alison: You've talked about going back to a time before music became your job. It was a necessary thing, something you enjoy, but that was necessary, a time back to when you just really enjoyed it. Tell me about that time. How did you find your way into music?

Jennifer: I think from a practical sense, I knew that it wouldn't be realistic to have music as a career. Being passionate about it, I was like, "What could I do?" That really was just go out in LA, and go in the scene and hang out with other people who also love music. That's really what brought me to this career unintentionally, is by going into it with absolutely no desire to make it a career, just to keep it something as passionate and creatively driven as possible.

Alison: What kind of music did you grow up around?

Jennifer: For me, I think as a young child like, I'm sure many people, piano lessons, gospel music, church music, things like that. As I grew older, I discovered the radio and really I fell in love with West Coast hip hop and R&B. That drove my exploration into discovering what else there was to offer in music. Then from there, I was like, "Oh, I really like bossa nova," or, "I really like drum and bass. I like house music," and realized that I just was a passionate appreciator and lover of all types of music.

Alison: Let's go back to a really early track of yours, Let Me Trick You. When was this released?

Jennifer: Oh, my goodness, 2010 or '11 perhaps.

Alison: Tell us about your career at that time.

Jennifer: I didn't really have one. I think at the point that that album came out, I might have made the decision to pursue music. Truly at that time, I was like, "There's just no way. I can't see myself making it. I see all my peers trying to do music full time, and they're definitely making it, or living like a quality life without also building some level of resentment towards music." For me at that time, it was still just about creative expression and trying out music as a career. I told myself if I didn't make it I would just, I don't know, try to go back to school, get a new job, all those things. At the time that that particular song came out, I took the leap of faith and was like, "You know what? Let's just try this out. Let's see if I can do music full time."

Alison: Let's take a listen. This is Let Me Trick You.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: Let Me Trick You]

I'm speaking to DJ and producer, TOKiMONSTA. Her new album is Eternal Reverie. She's joining me as part of our Women's History Month series, Equalizers. She'll be performing in New York on May 22nd and May 2024th. Toki, that song has a very different vibe than your latest album. How has your style or your approach to music production changed over the last 15 years?

Jennifer: I think at that time when I first started making music, I was just this fully unfocused, creative, wild child. I wanted to see what music I could make. I truly was just making anything that felt good to me. I think this many years later, I have grown to refine my identity as a musician. It's important for me to have, I guess, a voice in that way.

I'm a producer, I don't really sing or anything, but whatever that signature is, that is me, I've really worked on over the years. As the artist I am today, I still look back at that wild untamed musician, and use that to shape where I am, just to make sure that I'm always being creative and not trying to follow a formula. I do think that for me that I've found somewhat of an identity at this point.

Alison: Let's talk about Eternal Reverie. It dropped on March 7. When did you start working on that album?

Jennifer: I started working on it early of last year. Wait, what year was that? 2024. The very top of 2024, I started refining all these ideas, because I'm constantly working on music. At any given moment, I'm like, "I think I want to make a beat right now."

I'll just hunker down and open my laptop and see what I could put together. At the point about, I guess, a little over a year ago, I decided I really wanted to start compiling these ideas and working on them and fleshing them out more.

Alison: You said that you use every album as a journal. What would you say is the important part of your journal for Eternal Reverie?

Jennifer: When I say journal, it's this analogy of a specific period of time. Like when I put out, Let Me Trick You, that was a specific point in time. That was me in an era I can remember. That's when I was going out a lot in LA and discovering all these different subcultures. You fast forward to Eternal Reverie, and this is this celebration of youth and experimentation and dreaming.

Sadly, it's also very unfortunately intertwined with a lot of loss that I had also experienced last year. There's a lot of complicated feelings around this album because I lost my best friend last year. I had to cancel-- Not cancel. I pushed this album until now so I could take time off to take care of my friend during her last month of life.

Alison: That was your friend, Regina?

Jennifer: This is my friend, Regina Biondo. It's mixed. I'm hoping that this album also represents healing and the journey through grief. At the end of this album cycle that I would have perspective, because the experiences I had last year, those befall everyone, loss and grieving, that is something that humans are not immune to. I think in putting out this album, I really hope that this can be some level of a hero's journey, some level of seeing the other side of difficulty and hardship.

Alison: My guest is TOKiMONSTA, DJ and producer. It's part of our Women's History Month series, Equalizers. We'll have More after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. I'm speaking to DJ and producer, TOKiMONSTA. Her new album is Eternal Reverie. She is joining me as part of our Women's History Month series, Equalizers. By the way, she'll be performing in New York on May 22 and May 24. Let's play another track from your new album. This is called On Sum. Tell me more about who's on this track.

Jennifer: On Sum features Anderson .Paak, a longtime friend and collaborator of mine, and Rae Khalil, who is actually just one of the most incredible up and coming artists right now, who's actually on his label. It was nice to have the family together on this track.

Alison: How did you meet Anderson .Paak?

Jennifer: Oh, man. I met him so many years ago. I told him from the beginning. I always told him, like, "Dude, you're going to be so big. You're going to be massive. You're going to be huge and famous. You are so talented." At the time, it's him and his child and the mother of his child were living in a small apartment in Koreatown. He was driving a car that was borrowed from someone else.

He was just hustling at that time to make music and work with so many different artists. If you ever look back on his discography, if you look at his early work, he really got out there and worked with as many people as he could. He's one of my favorite human beings, one of my favorite creative human beings and friends. We still hang out, just go to dinner, paint the town red, all the things.

That is my buddy. Him succeeding, it makes me feel like I'm like a fortune teller in some aspect. Truly, it just feels great to have one of you friends and family just shining above and beyond. It was really nice to be able to come back and create this song together, after creating our first song in 2014, maybe. It's been a while since our first track together.

Alison: This is On Sum.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: On Sum]

That is the latest, it's called On Sum. I want to play another track from Eternal Reverie. This is Enjoy Your Life, is a really joyful music video, Toki, full of people dancing in everyday places, on the bus while vacuuming. What message did you want to come from this song?

Jennifer: It might sound like really cliché because it is in the title. Just taking a moment to savor and enjoy your life. There's a lot of hardship and negativity, and we are constantly exposed to this, but it's nice to pause and smell the flowers and also take count of all the things that are wonderful about life. Sometimes it's just about going out on the street enjoying a sunny day and being with your friends and being present in life.

Alison: Let's take a listen. This is Enjoy Your Life.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: Enjoy Your Life]

That's the song, Enjoy Your Life. I'm speaking to DJ and producer, TOKiMONSTA. Toki, that will be a nice segue to what happened to you ten years ago. You were diagnosed with a disease that affects blood flow to the brain. You underwent two brain surgeries in 2016 which affected how you both process language and music. They probably told you, but I had to undergo brain surgery a year ago. I know what it's like to wake up and not be able to talk. Exactly, what was the-- No, please go ahead.

Jennifer: I was saying it's a weird club to be in, not knowing how to talk anymore club.

Alison: What was the exact effect on you, the disease you had?

Jennifer: It was interesting because the aphasia, the lack of speech was the result of the surgery that I had to undergo to save my life. You are warned in advance that that's a very likely thing to happen. You will have aphasia, you may lose your ability to speak, but it varies from person to person, and you don't know exactly the level of permanence.

When you're afflicted with aphasia, you just wake up one day, and you're like, "Wow, I cannot speak anymore, and I can't understand anyone." You really don't know how long you're going to be in that position. For me, it was alarming. I'm sure you felt the same way. You're like, "How am I going to navigate this?" Because even though you can't speak, you're still cognizant, you know you can't speak, at least, unless in my situation.

All I could do is just focus on recuperating. I'm sure, too, with any person who's had their brain tinkered with, it's not just speech. There's all these other things that happen. Like, suddenly you can't use your left hand, or it's hard to walk, or I can't put my sweater on.

Alison: Drop things.

Jennifer: You drop things all the time.

Alison: I found myself.

Jennifer: Then there's good days and bad days where some days I feel like I can pick up on what people are saying better. Then I have another day where I lose it again and I go back to not being able to understand people. It is through that process of healing that I also discovered I couldn't understand music anymore.

Not sure if that was something that you also discovered, but for me, that was very odd. No one warns you that, "Hey, you can't listen to music anymore." They do warn you about all these other things. As I sat there in this speechless bubble, I also didn't have any music to turn to. Music is our world. I'm sure for you too, with speech, it is also your entire world. Speaking is so important and being able to communicate, and music as a language to me was so important, and I didn't have that anymore.

Alison: What process did you go through to understand what music was like again?

Jennifer: In my particular case, I like to use the analogy of a bridge. I think whatever bridge that linked that part of my brain to the rest of my brain, it maybe got a little too messed with during my surgery. Eventually that bridge was rebuilt and I was able to be at the same cognitive level that I was prior to surgery. Fortunately for me, I didn't have to relearn anything. In my case, I just had to let the swelling and the healing happen for those bridges to connect again.

Alison: You're able to hear music the same as you were before your surgery?

Jennifer: Yes. Now with much less headaches, which is great. It'd be nice to think that after brain surgery, you'd be superhuman. I'm just happy to be where I was and to be alive and to be able to speak to you and make music and continue living.

Alison: Let's play another track from your album. This is Corazón / Death by Disco, Pt. 2. What do you want us to know about this song?

Jennifer: This song was made from a sample I found in Sao Paulo, Brazil. The only reason I found this record was through my best friend who had passed away last year. She was the one that led us to find this record dealer on the streets of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Alison: Let's hear Corazón / Death by Disco, Pt. 2.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: Corazón / Death by Disco, Pt. 2]

I'm speaking to DJ and producer, TOKiMONSTA. Her new album is called Eternal Reverie. You were the first woman signed the label Brainfeeder. In 2019, you became the first female Asian American producer to get a nomination for best Electronic Dance album. What effect did that have on how you felt being part of the industry?

Jennifer: Things like a Grammy nomination, it's an accolade I never asked for, would have ever expected. If you told me when I started making music that I would be nominated for a Grammy, I would have just been like, "There is just no way. I'm more likely that I would win the lottery, to be honest." When I got that nomination, it felt like the cherry on top.

It felt like I had earned the respect of my peers because it is your peers that nominate you for Grammy. It felt good to be recognized. Obviously, it's not something I sought out or made a goal in life, it's like, "I need to get a Grammy." That's not it. For me, it's able to make music and be joyful. When your peers are like, "Toki, you're doing a good job. Let's get you nominated Grammy." It's like, "Wow, that feels great." I feel nice and warm inside.

I know that I've been doing the best I could as a creative individual. Me getting nominated for Grammy just opens the door for people to surpass me and do better. I hope there's another female producer, Asian American or whoever, any kind of person that is not included in a diverse environment, like awards or like electronic music or hip hop or all those things, I hope that they can see someone like me and be like, "If she could do it, I could definitely do it." Great. That's what I want. I hope people think that I'm the bar and that they can surpass me.

Alison: You launched your label, Young Art Records about a decade ago in 2014. What are your goals for it for the next decade?

Jennifer: Honestly, to continue doing what we've been doing, which is to uplift amazing, talented musicians. This label is not a money-making venture for me at all. I'm just happy that it's self sustaining, that I can continue to use this platform to share music I love because I make music because I love music.

The label allows me to exercise that creative muscle of mine as well as mentor and allow these musicians to be heard by a wider audience. It's really hard to be in the music industry. Whatever I've learned, any shortcuts or ways that I can uplift these artists, I'm so happy to do so through this label.

Alison: I've been speaking to DJ and producer, TOKiMONSTA . She joined us as part of our Women's History Month series, Equalizers. Thank you so much for making the time to talk to us today.

Jennifer: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciated it.

Alison: Let's go out on one last song from Eternal Reverie. Here's Reverie.

[music - TOKiMONSTA: Reverie]

Tomorrow on All Of It, weight loss drugs are everywhere and are changing the standards of beauty. These drugs also have helped those with health issues like diabetes, obesity and inflammation. Theater of War Productions and WNYC will air a conversation about this topic this weekend and we will preview it tomorrow. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.