Title: DOC NYC: "Street Smart" Celebrates Maria of 'Sesame Street'

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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We continue our coverage of the documentary film festival, DOC NYC. Our selection today is the film Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon. That icon, Emmy-winning writer and actor Sonia Manzano, and AKA Maria from Sesame Street. Sonia grew up right here in the South Bronx, and she grew into a creative force. She was in the original off-Broadway cast of Godspell, and at 21, made her way to Sesame Street. She was on the show for 44 years.

She worked as a writer to make sure her Puerto Rican heritage was being represented in a meaningful way to kids around the country. She also helped teach kids about the biggest moments in life, from birth to marriage, and even discussing death. Documentarian Ernie Bustamante sat down with Sonia to talk about her turbulent childhood in the Bronx, her career on Sesame Street, and her continued fight for better representation in children's programming. Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon is streaming online as part of DOC NYC, and Director Ernie Bustamante is here to join me. Nice to meet you.

Ernie Bustamante: Likewise. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did her character mean to you? What was your favorite Maria moment on Sesame Street? Give us a call at 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in, join us on air, or you can text to us at that number as well. 212-433-9692. When was the first time you remember watching Maria on Sesame Street?

Ernie Bustamante: I am a child of the '80s, so it was definitely growing up in the early 1980s. When I saw Sonia as Maria and Emilio Delgado as Luis, I really identified and saw my parents, who are also coincidentally Mexican, American, and Puerto Rican.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think kids, all kids, were gravitated towards Maria?

Ernie Bustamante: That's something I asked her because when you think about all the Muppets and puppets that are iconic from the show, she really is one of the humans that stands out the most. Over the course of filming the documentary, I really learned that, well, in my opinion, I think it had to do with the fact that she brought so much of herself to the role, so when children and adults were watching her, they felt like they were watching a real person amid the fantastic puppets. I think she felt real.

Alison Stewart: Tell me about her childhood. She was in the South Bronx. How did it shape her?

Ernie Bustamante: One of the early things that you'll learn by watching the film is how she gravitated towards stories and particularly television for refuge in a chaotic household in the South Bronx growing up, which is described in her memoir, which is a beautiful, beautiful book. What I found so fascinating was that this was a person who found refuge in television and then eventually sought out the arts as coping mechanism, someone might say, as an escape, but then eventually made her way into the television, which, I mean, I just thought, that's a movie.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting when she talks about her family life because it was an abusive home. Her father was abusive towards her mother. What does Sonia say about how violence and how the violence between her parents affected her as a kid, and then affected her choices?

Ernie Bustamante: One of the things that you'll see in the film is that she really was aware of what was going on. It was not something that she ignored, but, in fact, took it upon herself to deal with. That's something you'll see in the film. It speaks to the level of maturity that she had at a very young age, but also how you see her in all phases of her life, whether she's going to a new environment like the high school performing arts, or whether it's getting a scholarship to an elite drama institution. She goes into these institutions and she thrives. I think part of what she says in interviews sometimes is that her upbringing made her who she was, and she used that.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting because to tell her story, you used some great animations. Why did you decide to include animations, and who did them?

Ernie Bustamante: The animator that we used is a brilliant artist named Jeffrey Aviles, who I found on Instagram.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wow.

Ernie Bustamante: Yes. I reached out to him, and he joined the team. I was really grateful, and he was an excellent collaborator. One of the reasons I wanted to use animation was because I wanted people who are watching this, so many of people who are interested in the film are going to be people who grew up watching Sonia Manzano on Sesame Street. I thought I wanted to make a film as if her now adult audiences were watching a children's show, but for adults with adult lessons, with adult stories. That's where the animation came into that.

Alison Stewart: The other very funny part of the film are these reenactments where the people doing the acting, it's not their voices. Tell us how you decided on that.

Ernie Bustamante: Sonia was very independent from the film. We made the film without-- she wasn't a consultant on it or anything, and she was a great participant in that way. The one thing she told me was make it funny.

Alison Stewart: Really?

Ernie Bustamante: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How interesting.

Ernie Bustamante: I'm glad she said that, and I'm glad she reminded me, because so much of what I admire and why I look up to Sonia as a television writer because she is a comedy writer at heart. She is a comedic actress, and I'm a TV writer. I love comedy. Oftentimes, we don't get to see these nuanced or positive portrayals of Latinos in comedy. She was one of the early ones, and so I gravitated towards that.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon, a documentary about Sesame Street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. It's streaming now online as part of DOC NYC. Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember the most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did the character mean to you? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC.

As you said, she went to a high school for performing arts, and then she got herself into Carnegie Mellon, which is a really interesting story because she didn't get the recommendations that she expected or she had hoped to get. What did this tell you about her?

Ernie Bustamante: Very early on, you realize that Sonia is someone who sets her eye on a goal, and in pursuit of that goal is utterly relentless and in the best possible way. She sets her eyes on going to college. She doesn't get any recommendations. In fact, the teachers at the performing arts high school thinks that her acting is dull. They don't think she's very talented. She goes around them. She goes around them, she asks other people for these recommendations. She sets up the audition herself, and lo and behold, she gets a scholarship to Carnegie Mellon University. From there, so many things take off for her after that.

Alison Stewart: Yes. We got a text here from somebody who said, "Saw Sonia in Godspell doing Turn Back, O Man. Amazing." All right. This was wild. I didn't know this about her, that she was in the original off-Broadway show of Godspell.

Ernie Bustamante: Same. I didn't know that either.

Alison Stewart: How did you find? That was amazing to me.

Ernie Bustamante: Yes. It's so many reasons why I created this documentary was because we know this character who was on Sesame Street for 44 years-- I'm sorry. Yes, 44 years, four decades. We don't know the real person. That was so many layers and experiences and accomplishments, and that's just part of it.

Alison Stewart: It was interesting because it was like the idea that she liked clowning, and she liked mime, and then there was this sort of like woo woo version of the Bible, and she was going to be in it, but they had a little difficulty with her voice. Would you explain that?

Ernie Bustamante: Yes. To quote Stephen Schwartz, who-

Alison Stewart: Is in the film.

Ernie Bustamante: -graciously-- is in the film, he says, "Sonia was not primarily a singer," and that was something that Sonia struggled with early on. Again, when Sonia Manzano is faced with an obstacle, a challenge, she meets that challenge and she thrives and she exceeds the expectations for herself included. She goes on to Sesame Street, where she sings quite a bit.

Alison Stewart: We'll have more about Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon. It's about Sesame Street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. How did Sonia first get connected with Sesame Street?

Ernie Bustamante: When she auditioned for Sesame Street, she was playing in the original production of Godspell. That was a hit, and that's where people took notice.

Alison Stewart: She went in and she auditioned for what role?

Ernie Bustamante: The role that was created was a role for a Puerto Rican teenager, and there was also another role created for a Mexican American actor. Luis and Maria were cast at the same time. Sonia Manzano and Emilio Delgado joined together. That came about because Mexican American activists on the West Coast demanded representation for Latinos on this public television show. The mission was to cast a Latina and a Latino specifically to address the need and the demand of those activists. Again, something in his television history I was not quite aware of, but Sonia does speak about in the film.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Tracy from Staten Island. Hi, Tracy. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Tracy: Hi. My sister and I are in our 50s now and grew up watching Sesame Street. When my sister was about five years old, my grandfather asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up. She said, "Oh, I want to be Puerto Rican like Maria on Sesame Street." My grandfather was horrified and thought we should stop watching Sesame Street. The rest of my family thought it was hilarious. My sister is the strongest, kindest, most empathetic woman I know, so she has a lot of Maria in her, but just not Puerto Rican.

Alison Stewart: What did you take away from that? First of all, your grandfather saying no go, and then your sister deciding that she wanted to be Puerto Rican?

Tracy: My sister just adored Maria and thought that being Puerto Rican was part of her specialness, and so she wanted to be that. My grandfather was a gentleman of a certain age and thought that was crazy, but we love Sesame Street and we love Maria.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. What we're talking about, in some ways, in the sideways, is representation on television. How aware was Sonia in terms of her representation of Puerto Rican women on television?

Ernie Bustamante: In conversations I've had with her, I don't think that she was as aware in the beginning. When Sonia speaks about being on the show, she wasn't sure the show would last very long. I don't think 44 years on the show, she definitely didn't think that. I think looking at it from that perspective, I think it was something very important, the representation of Puerto Ricans, and she made it a mission of hers, especially once she became a writer on the show.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask about that. She became a writer on the show. What were some of the things that she did as a writer that she wrote for her character or for other characters?

Ernie Bustamante: One of the things that Sonia gravitated towards the writing was because she felt that the Latino content wasn't as interesting, it wasn't as funny as Cookie Monster eating this table, and so the producers at Sesame Street said, "Okay, then write it." Again, another instance when Sonia Manzano is met with a challenge, she faces it, she exceeds, and she thrives. She did that with writing. She wrote pieces to audition, and they hired her right on the spot. One famous sketch that she wrote as an audition piece was a very brilliant and smart, and sophisticated sketch called, You Say Hola. It's about the word hola. She plays Ginger Rogers, and Emilio is Fred Astaire. It's this beautiful sketch, and it's in the film.

Alison Stewart: We have a clip of it. Let's take a listen.

[MUSIC - Emilio Delgado and Sonia Manzano: Hola Means Hello]

Emilio Delgado: Each time we meet

At work or the street

We always say hello.

But you say--

Sonia Manzano: Hola.

Emilio Delgado: And I say hola.

Both: It's a word that we both know.

Hola means hi

Hello, not goodbye

Why, everywhere you go.

Sonia Manzano: The girls say hola.

Emilio Delgado: The boys say hola.

Both: 'Cause hola means hello.

Alison Stewart: They're in these-- she's in a beautiful gown, and he's in a top hat and tails. What's so special about that particular scene?

Ernie Bustamante: To me, first of all, what makes it so special is how evergreen that sketch is. You can watch that sketch today, 30-plus years later, and it still has the same impact and relevance, and you still learn what hola means, just the same. Also, it was a way that I never really saw Latinos portrayed. Here, you had a Mexican American and a Nuyorican as Fred and Roger--

Alison Stewart: Fred Astaire.

Ernie Bustamante: Ginger Rogers, yes. It was a parody of them. I thought it was so sophisticated. That speaks to, in my opinion, how ahead of her time she was. Because even now, when I look at comedies, particularly in television, through a Latino lens, first of all, there's not much of it, but when they are portrayed, it's very often caricatures or negative stereotypes. It isn't something I necessarily gravitate towards. She was doing this sophisticated comedy in the '80s, and I just really admire that.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you remember most about Maria on Sesame Street? What did her character mean to you? What was your favorite Maria moment? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. My guest is Director Ernie Bustamante. We're discussing his new film, Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon. It's part of DOC NYC.

There's another moment I want to play from the film when Mr. Hooper had died, and the actor had died in real life. Sonia felt particularly, not proud, but she felt it was the right thing to say. We should address this. Let's listen, and we can talk about it on the other side.

Maria: Big Bird, don't you remember we told you Mr. Hooper died? He's dead.

Big Bird: Oh, yes. I remember. Well, I'll give it to him when he comes back.

Susan: Big Bird, Mr. Hooper's not coming back.

Big Bird: Why not?

Susan: Big Bird, when people die, they don't come back.

Big Bird: Ever?

Susan: No, never.

Alison Stewart: Poor Big Bird. Why did she think that was the right thing to do?

Ernie Bustamante: She talks about in the film how she wasn't a writer on the show at that time, but so much of what she speaks to during that moment, and about that, I was able to interview Norman Stiles, who wrote that segment, and what she speaks about and what he speaks about was being honest with children. If we're honest about life, then we should be honest about death. So many of the cast members and the writers from Sesame Street are very proud of the legacy that it has, and that I know Sonia considers that one of the most proudest moments to be a part of the show.

Alison Stewart: Did she consider herself an educator as well as an entertainer?

Ernie Bustamante: That's a good question. I think that, like I had mentioned before, it was something she leaned into later. It was something that she realized the importance of what she was a part of and embraced that responsibility.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Asha, who's calling from Virginia. Hey, Asha, thank you so much for making the time to call All Of It.

Asha: Oh, thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to throw in the mix the fact that when-- I immigrated from India in the '70s. When I came to the United States, my mom and I, we didn't really speak English at all. I think we both together learned how to speak English. Obviously, I did through school, but Sesame Street was a huge part of getting acclimated to the United States. Maria was one of the characters on Sesame Street. She was someone of a different ethnicity, and she talked about it, and she made it okay to be different. She was the closest to an Indian person that I saw on TV at the time, when there weren't that many Indians on TV.

Even now. There aren't that many Indian Americans on TV, but it really meant a lot to me in terms of representation and representation, and people who look different, what they could do, including being in the arts, but also being educators. She was a huge part of my education in this country. I'm so grateful for her and all the other folks that were on Sesame Street and other PBS shows. They played a huge part in me getting fundamental, foundational learning in this country when I first came.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling. We do appreciate it. I wanted to ask about her acting with Muppets. Was it hard for her?

Ernie Bustamante: Yes.

Alison Stewart: It was?

Ernie Bustamante: Yes. Sonia was 21 years old when she got cast on the show, which was a hit show, getting millions of viewers across the country. These are giant cameras at that time. She mentions how the cameras were intimidating. The puppeteers are down at your feet, and so it's like maintaining the eyeline. All of this is new to her. Meanwhile, which I thought was really fascinating, was that her first year, she's doing Sesame Street during the day and Godspell at night. She's on a hit TV show during the day and a hit off-Broadway musical at night. I don't know. I mean, let's talk about a main character, right?

Alison Stewart: She did like Oscar the Grouch. That was her favorite character. Why?

Ernie Bustamante: Absolutely. Sonia is hilarious. Her sense of humor is her wit. She's so sharp. Oscar's hilarious as well, so I see why they're a match. She also said he was her favorite to write for because he's a negative character. It's easy to write for a negative character than it is a positive one. I think their personalities meshed. She was a very-- the back and forth between them is so funny.

Alison Stewart: The name of the film is Street Smart: Lessons from a TV Icon. It's a documentary about Sesame Street star Sonia Manzano, who played Maria. It's streaming now online as part of DOC NYC. It's Director Ernie Bustamante joined me in studio. Thank you for being with us.

Ernie Bustamante: Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: We'll have more of it tomorrow. We'll talk about the best books of the year with the New York Public Library's chief librarian, and we'll mark the 50th anniversary of the classic documentary, Grey Gardens. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening. I appreciate you, and I'll meet you back here tomorrow.