[MUSIC- Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, in for Alison Stewart. 30 years ago, acclaimed filmmaker, Kelly Reichardt, made her first movie, 1994's River of Grass, which follows a bored Florida housewife, whose life takes a turn when she meets a man at a bar. Since then, Reichardt has made a name for herself as a portraitist of the Pacific Northwest through films like Old Joy, Meek's Cutoff, First Cow, and last year's Showing Up.

Reichardt's films are moving portraits of everyday people, whether they're set in modern day or in the American past. She has a unique ability to make actors, even major stars, like longtime collaborator Michelle Williams, make them feel like people you might know. As Doreen St. Félix wrote in her profile of Reichardt for The New Yorker, "Reichardt is this country's finest observer of ordinary grit."

Now, the Metrograph is honoring her filmography with a retrospective series, it's called American Landscapes: The Cinema of Kelly Reichardt. Kicking off on Saturday, the Metrograph will screen all eight of Reichardt features to date Kelly herself will join some of the screenings for a Q&A session afterwards. You can find more information on the Metrograph's website.

Joining me now in the studio to discuss the retrospective and her career is director, screenwriter, editor, Kelly Reichardt. Kelly, welcome to the show, and welcome back to WNYC.

Kelly Reichardt: Oh, thanks for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. When did you first know you wanted to be a filmmaker?

Kelly Reichardt: I grew up in Miami, Florida, and it was kind of a cultural void as far as art went. I had a Pentax K1000, and then we got a Super 8 camera. Looking back, I'm not sure how the idea occurred to me, but I did sort of-- Well, A, I wanted to get out of Florida. B, I don't really know where the idea came from. I ended up just randomly at Mass Art taking night classes so that I could get some equipment, and making films for some friends of mine.

Kousha Navidar: Do you remember the first time you did something with a camera and you thought, "Oh, this is something that I want to keep doing"? Do you remember how old you were? Do you remember where you were?

Kelly Reichardt: I wanted to keep doing it because it's interesting and it's fun but I'm not sure it was that I looked at something and said, "Oh, I should keep doing this." [laughter] Those days, there was a lot of bands about, and which seemed to be mostly for guys. I was trying to find a way to do stuff and not just be on the sideline, and so I started filming some of these bands and stuff.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, interesting. Like rock bands, you're saying?

Kelly Reichardt: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Wow.

Kelly Reichardt: Indie rock.

Kousha Navidar: That's great. So many people want to make it as directors, and writers, and actors, and creatives in this world, but most people don't ever really get that dream realized. For you, is there even a moment when you first realized, "Hey, I made it," or, "Hey, this is going to be a long career"?

Kelly Reichardt: Oh, I don't know what making it is exactly, but I got very fortunate after I made my film, Old Joy, that I got a teaching job at Bard College, where I am today. Bard has allowed me to have time to work, and to be around colleagues who make different sorts of films, and teach film, and have enough time to make films. That put me in a place where I could make the sort of projects I want to make without having to think that I would be necessarily making a career of filmmaking, because that always seemed like a shaky thing.

That back and forth between teaching and making films has gone on for a long time. Every film feels like the last film, and you feel lucky you're getting to make it, and you have no idea if you'll get to make another one. It still feels that way because it's a hard industry to keep making art films or smaller, more personal films.

Kousha Navidar: How do you find, maybe strength is a word, maybe motivation, dedication in between projects, I guess? Is it taking lessons that you learned from the previous film and finding the next thing you want to work on, or is it just this feeling of being compelled to make it and it's the thing that you do?

Kelly Reichardt: Well, yes, it's something to do. I like thinking about how films are structured quite a lot. I think about that a lot when I'm teaching, and then I want to have time to dive in. My filmmaking world is very connected to my friend world in a lot of ways. Talking about seeing art, and talking about art and seeing music, and then wanting to make stuff, that's all in the mix of life and with a community of people. I've worked a lot with a friend, Jonathan Raymond, a writer friend. Often, those ideas- by the time I'm finishing a film, he has an idea of something he wants us to dive into next. That's happened a lot.

Kousha Navidar: It's not just an independent kind of thing that you're talking about, it's from the community, drawing inspiration in that sense?

Kelly Reichardt: Yes. Filmmaking is not a one-person sport. It involves working with a lot of different people. You work one-on-one with people intensely, and then you leave that person and you work intensely with the next person, whether it's like a writer, and then a production designer, and then a cinematographer. There's a lot of very intense one-on-one with casting person first, really, or your producers, and then you move along to the next intense relationship and collaboration.

I don't know. Filmmaking's not something I think you can conquer. There's just so much to figure out all the time, new with each project. I'm happy to do it for as long as the film gods say I'm allowed.

Kousha Navidar: They still want to give you that, right?

Kelly Reichardt: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Totally. Totally. Listeners, we're talking to Kelly Reichardt, the director, the screenwriter, the editor. The retrospective called American Landscapes: The Cinema of Kelly Reichardt, it kicks off Saturday at the Metrograph. I'd love to get into some of the movies from your long career. Your debut film was released 30 years ago. That was 1994's River of Grass. When's the last time you watched that film?

Kelly Reichardt: Larry Fessenden stars in the movie, and he was the editor of that film. He and I-- Oscilloscope brought the film back to life and remastered it, and made a fresh print, and we got it recolor-timed and all that. That's what I guess I mean by remastered. Anyway, when they did the DVD, we did a commentary. We watched the film as we were doing the commentary. I really don't like to go back and look at the films. It was a funny commentary because we were remembering things as we saw them. Yes, it was a long time ago.

Kousha Navidar: Well, how is it? You mentioned that you don't really like going back to watch old films. How is it for you to be ready to watch all of these films altogether as part of this retrospective?

Kelly Reichardt: Oh, I'm not going to watch them.

[laughter]

Kelly Reichardt: I'm not going to watch them, but I'm really happy that they're going to play. I just can't bear it. I cut my own films mostly, so I'm just-- I don't want to-- I'll just be too critical. I don't know. I just won't. I love that they're playing together. I really am a fan of the Metrograph. I go there to see movies. It's a nice place to see films. They're playing on the weekend, so they're playing-- it's not just like they're off by themselves, they're playing around all these other films from different eras, some contemporary, some older. I think a Melville film is playing the same week. It's great. It's like a way to feel part of something.

Kousha Navidar: Thinking about the River of Grass, that first movie for you, do you remember learning anything from that film 30 years ago that you still carry with you today? Any big lessons? Any big insights from that first go around?

Kelly Reichardt: I learned don't make a film on your credit cards, which was like a thing at the time. Everyone was just like, "Just put it on your credit cards." Don't do that, you'll carry debt for a long-- It's worse than a student loan. I think my big thing-- Well, I learned a lot of life lessons on that film. That was a education in really, I learned a lot about misogyny on that film [laughs]. I did. Just what it was to be a woman and trying to make a film and trying to--

I learned that I really needed to, much more than I did at the time that I shouldn't just be describing a shot. I should be working with my lenses. I learned everything I didn't know, basically, and what I needed to know in order to be able to articulate exactly what I wanted to do. It was very difficult.

I worked with some friends. One friend who's no longer with us, my dear friend Dave Doernberg was the production designer. That was a great thing. Also my friends from Yo La Tengo did some of the music for it, not under Yo La Tengo. They did it. That has been a very long-lasting relationship, friendship with those guys. That's really sweet that that exists in there.

There's a lot of Miami that we shot, which is where I grew up, that doesn't exist anymore. I'm really pleased about that. It's interesting that the things that interested me at that age in a lot of ways are still themes that- just about the landscape and the environment and how industrialism invades the environment, and capitalism I should say, and just those things, highways, that those things have stuck with me.

Kousha Navidar: It's interesting that we've talked about Miami a lot in this interview. Folks who are familiar with your work know that most of your work is set in the Pacific Northwest, actually. How did that particular region of the country become such an area of focus for you?

Kelly Reichardt: It was as far away as Miami as I could get.

Kousha Navidar: [laughs] Opposite diagonal. Got it.

Kelly Reichardt: Yes, and a really different landscape. I've lived in New York City for over 30 years, and now I live mostly in Oregon. My friend, Todd Haynes, I had worked on his film, Poison, and we became friends. He eventually moved to Portland. I started going out there to visit him, and I was really taken with the landscape. Then I met Jonathan Raymond, the screenplay. He was a novelist. I did Old Joy with one of his short stories, and then he and I started working together. He and Todd now often work together. I started getting drawn out there. I met the producer I've made all these films with Neil Kopp lives out there.

I was always more and more sharing my time with Portland, but I think working with John Raymond had a lot to do with it because he's from Oregon, and those were the stories he wanted to tell. I realized it was fantastic to not be retreading the area I knew. It was great to forge a new territory, a new landscape that was different to my eye. Seasons were different. It just ended up being the place, interestingly. I became a regional filmmaker for a place I didn't live.

[laughter]

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking to Kelly Reichardt, the director, the screenwriter, the editor, the retrospective of her 30-year career and going is American Landscapes: The Cinema of Kelly Reichardt. It kicks off Saturday at the Metrograph. Kelly, we just got a text that I want to read from a listener. It said, "I'm lucky enough to have a wonderful theater in town, the Claridge run by Montclair Film, where I saw Showing Up. Absolutely loved it. Have recently seen First Cow, Old Joy, and Wendy and Lucy. A big fan. Can't wait for the next one." Whoever texted that, thank you so much. How does it feel to hear that--?

Kelly Reichardt: Thanks, mom.

Kousha Navidar: [laugh]

Kelly Reichardt: That's so nice. That's great. Oh, I've heard of that theater in Montclair. That's cool. I know people in Montclair.

Kousha Navidar: You had mentioned something, when we were talking, about the lessons that you learned in your first film. The first thing that popped into your mind was misogyny, which I thought was a pretty big lesson, or I guess a big thing to touch on. As a female director working in the '90s, how have you noticed things changing in Hollywood for female directors? What are some areas that you feel still need to improve?

Kelly Reichardt: I never thought of myself as being part of Hollywood, but I don't know. I've made films with A24 and I don't know what's- the line is. I've made films in this really particular, very fortunate way of where our budgets are quite small, relatively speaking. We've been pretty much left to our own devices. I guess my early attitude was, "You don't want me, well, I don't want you." No. I was just figuring out ways to make films around a system that I've probably more weighted into now. Really it was Adam Yauch helped a lot with oscilloscope films to help get the movies out. They were in Kino and IFC, more independent distributors.

I don't know. It's hard for me to speak about Hollywood. I'm sure it's better than it was, and I am sure it's not where it should be. I guess I could say that. From a teaching standpoint, I can say, when I started teaching, there was maybe one female student for every-- I think the ratio at NYU where I used to teach was one girl for every 16 boys.

I don't know if it's the times or teaching at Bard, whatever, but my classes have more women in them than they do men at this point. That's changed. Schools are also a bubble. We will know when people quit saying like, "We're going to have a woman's film festival. We're going to do a woman series." You will understand that women have entered the flow of things [laughs].

Kousha Navidar: Has that been a sudden shift in ratio that you're talking about, or a gradual one?

Kelly Reichardt: I don't know. I shouldn't talk about these things because I don't really know just in my own little world. It's gotten easier for me because I've made a bunch of films. One of the hardest relationships can be within the crew and women finding the people they can work with that will support them. Crews can be very dude oriented, which is fine as long as they're the right dudes. I really don't have a bird's eye view on it. To be honest, I just keep my head down and try to do my thing.

Kousha Navidar: See how it is for you film to film [crosstalk] you can speak from your own perch. I totally hear that.

Kelly Reichardt: I'm old now, [laughs] so it's different.

Kousha Navidar: You were talking a lot about the different folks that you've worked with that have been great collaborators. One of them is Michelle Williams. How did that collaboration begin?

Kelly Reichardt: I should just say I work with a lot of men and I've been supported by a lot of men. It's not like one thing at all. If you get to make a film about the things-- We're making films about an injured bird or someone stealing milk from a cow. It's lucky that anyone gives you the chance to do it. I feel very fortunate.

Michelle, that was another fortunate thing. So many things happen by accident. I had written Wendy and Lucy, and I thought it would be much more of a-- I was looking at casting someone like Sadie Benning, the artist. I sent her the script even. In the week I sent her the script, her dog passed away so she couldn't even really look at it.

Michelle Heath had worked with Todd and as Michelle had with Todd Haynes. It was through that relationship that Michelle had seen Old Joy and she said, "Oh, I want to part like the Will Oldham part in Old Joy." "Well, that's cool. Is she really going to show up and do this movie?" She did, and that was fantastic. That was a really no-frills, super, super shoestring budget. We gave her an apple box to sit on, and she just rolled with it. I've gotten to work with her a lot, which has been obviously a great thing in life.

Kousha Navidar: What keeps you inspired to keep working with her? What do you think is special about her as an actor?

Kelly Reichardt: To me, she just keeps- especially if we go away and we do things without each other, and we come back, obviously, she's doing stuff all the time, she's forever growing. I have fun watching her and seeing what she's doing. I guess everything is like practice and process. Just how she uses her body and her voice, and the way she likes to try things, and mostly how trusting she is. I mean, God, I don't know how I got so fortunate to just work with someone who's so trusting from the get-go. That's really what you want when you're directing a film, is someone to trust you. I trust her. That gives us each a lot of leeway.

Kousha Navidar: In a profile for The New Yorker that I mentioned earlier, Doreen St. Félix called you America's finest observer of ordinary grit. What do you think about that phrase to describe your work, an observer of ordinary grit?

Kelly Reichardt: I think all of us- John, who I'm writing with- I do think we're focused on the minutiae of life, and more day-to-day struggles than big moments. Sometimes you hear when people, something tragic happens, they say, "I'll never go to that graduation or that wedding." They name all these big [laughs] events you'd just totally like to avoid in your life. I think we're more interested in the day to day and the smaller strokes and things.

Kousha Navidar: Thinking about your entire filmography so far and the retrospective, is there a film that you're particularly excited to talk about or revisit?

Kelly Reichardt: Let's see. I don't know. I've been lately thinking about how nice it's been music-wise that I've gotten to work with [unintelligible 00:24:18] and the guitarist, Smokey Hormel made music for film, and more recently, Andre Benjamin got to have some of his flute music in the movie, which was unexpected. Those things are nice to think about. Along with, I don't know, the places, the people, the animals, the music, all of it. I don't know, I'm just happy it's happening and that we lived through all these films.

Kousha Navidar: What do you think about--

Kelly Reichardt: A lot of winters. A lot of shooting in winters.

Kousha Navidar: [laughs] Let's think about the future winters. How do you think about the next phase of your career? Is there something that you're hoping to work on next to achieve? How are you thinking about the next phase?

Kelly Reichardt: Life goes on. I'd like to keep making films. I'd like to shoot less in the winter if possible, but that might not be possible. I really shoot around my teaching time. Shooting in the winter is really difficult, though we made showing up during a heatwave and that also had its challenges.

I just think of the project I'm interested in doing and, A, how in the world can we get the money for it ,and how in the world will we then-- Anish, Johnny and Neil Kopp who I've made all these films with, who produced them all, they have the challenge of figuring out how we're going to pull it off for whatever budget we have. All those things just getting in it with everybody and figuring out the big issues and the small ones. I don't know, just being in something with people. It's fun. I live a pretty unadventurous life usually and when you make a film, you're definitely on an adventure.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, finding the next adventure.

Kelly Reichardt: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: We've been talking to Kelly Reichardt, the director, screenwriter, and editor 30-year career and counting, the retrospective American Landscapes: The Cinema of Kelly Reichardt. It kicks off Saturday at the Metrograph. Kelly, thank you so much for coming on.

Kelly Reichardt: Thanks a lot for having me.

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