Alison Stewart: This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. The majority of the Broadway play Eureka Day takes place in the library of a private school in Berkeley, California, has written in the stage directions. The shelves of books are, "divided into three sections: fiction, nonfiction, and social justice." The show's characters make up the school board, and they sit in a semicircle in kid-sized plastic chairs, and it's likely they're reusable plastic made from bottles, you know what I mean? The issue they have to discuss is much bigger, a mumps outbreak in their only partially vaccinated student body. Our guest, Bill Irwin, plays the head of school who finds fulfillment in his work, most of the time, and recites poetry to kick off each calendar year. Another parent, played by Thomas Middleditch, who is sitting right there. He plays Eli, undercover Silicon Valley guy who have earned him millions and now he's a stay home dad. Our other guest, Jessica Hecht, plays Suzanne, a longtime and very dedicated board member, a bohemian who, as we come to learn, has anti vax views. The show deals with heavy themes but manages to find a lot of humor in them. Deadline said of the play, "Playwright Jonathan Spector has done us all a favor and molded one of the most divisive, inane, grotesque and newly resurgent issues of the day and polished it into a shiny, insightful and damn funny little gem so that all of us can ogle and ponder and reconsider just how in the name of Jonas Salk did we get here?"

Eureka Day runs on Broadway through February 2nd. I'm so happy you're all here.

Thomas Middleditch: So good to be here, yes

Jessica Hecht: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: In the script, there are descriptions that we, the audience, don't get to see, but you get to see. They write about your character, Don. He's described as a calming presence. He has worked hard to become the man he is, so Bill, who is Don? Who is he?

Bill Irwin: Don runs the school. He's the only of the six characters who is an employee of this school and has a tendency to think about the fiscal side of things, perhaps because of that. I think it's so interesting that our Jonathan Spector calls him 'a calming presence' because Don makes every effort. Whether he's always successful is another question, but that's Don sitting at the meetings.

Alison Stewart: He has no children.

Bill Irwin: Exactly.

Alison Stewart: Right? What does he get out of being principal?

Bill Irwin: That's a mystery you'd have to pierce over a long time. Being a teacher is one of those I've spent some time in classrooms, my own sons and others, as an actor, as a visiting artist. It is saintly work, and I think Don is absolutely smitten with it and dedicated to it, but as you say, he has no children. That's one of the, again, the mysteries that Jonathan Spector weaves into this quintet of characters.

Alison Stewart: Jessica, the script tells us that Suzanne "has a home worth $4 million, though she'll tell you it was much, much, much cheaper when they bought, but thinks of herself as comfortable rather than wealthy." What else do we need to know about Suzanne?

Jessica Hecht: Oh, gosh. I don't think what you just described from the descriptive passage is something we ever discussed or that we ever even thought about, but maybe that's more telling than anything. She loves children. She just loves children so much, and I really think that her whole agenda in life was to be part of a world where children were really valued and made to feel special. That's her whole raison d'etre.

Alison Stewart: Don is an employee of the school. He runs the school. Some might say Suzanne thinks she might run the school a little bit.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: How would you describe the relationship between the two?

Jessica Hecht: Oh, she adores Don. She is intellectually and emotionally in that romance with Don. Not a true romance, but she just adores Don. He's an incredible listener and that's why she thinks that she has so much status there because she feels very validated by him. They've had this mission together. Like anybody you work with for a long time, you have this understanding that your agenda is the same. I think she really believes that, truly, truly believes that.

Alison Stewart: All right, let's hear about Eli. Eli, an expert pickler, competitive rock climber, manager of family wealth. Went through an intense Ayn Rand phase in college, which now fills him with shame, but which he has also never fully shaken fair.

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: Fair.

Alison Stewart: How does he fit into this group of parents?

Thomas Middleditch: I think Eli considers himself as like a problem solver. Basically, if they're deliberating over a particular topic of the day, a school issue or a grander issue, he's silently churning away, or perhaps not so silently. Perhaps over talking in a way that a young man does, but he's working on the solution. That's his background as a tech guy. He's always trying to figure out, "Okay, bottom line, what's the end result?" He exemplifies that and executes that frequently in the play.

Alison Stewart: How does he feel about his wealth?

Thomas Middleditch: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: You find out he's a wealthy guy.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes, we find out, but we find out later, I feel. He's not someone that flaunts it. He certainly doesn't dress it. He certainly doesn't bring it up in conversation. Although when the story is coming to a head, there is an impetus or an ask that he 'Daddy Warbucks it.'

Alison Stewart: Sure.

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: I think a lot of those having now, through another piece of work I've done, I've known a lot of these venture capitalists who have like God-tier levels of wealth. It's not something that comes up. You're often splitting the Uber ride with them.

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: It's bizarre, but that's what happens.

Jessica Hecht: Absolutely.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes.

Alison Stewart: That's funny.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Oh, my God. Bill. This takes place in the 2018-2019 school year. It's before the COVID pandemic. It actually premiered in 2018, yes?

Bill Irwin: Initial versions did, yes. Productions, yes.

Alison Stewart: What do you think is prescient about the script?

Bill Irwin: Oh, Jonathan's a prescient writer.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Bill Irwin: I'll tell you, your question reminds me in the rehearsal room, it was a tough, challenging workplace because it's a tricky play.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Bill Irwin: We had to keep reminding ourselves, "Okay, this is pre-this."

Alison Stewart: Oh, right.

Bill Irwin: It's pre-that. This social justice moment hasn't happened yet. This Zoom technology isn't a daily part of our lives yet. That was really important in how to then tell this story of a group of people in 2018, 2019, I should say.

Alison Stewart: Jessica, how would you describe your characters views on vaccines?

Jessica Hecht: She believes that every parent should choose what their child should have. I think it's very straightforward. She in no way believes she should be telling other people what to do. She believes that parents should research it. She's extremely thoughtful and almost scholarly. I would say not almost. She's scholarly in her attempt to understand what is best for her family and her children, and that's what she sticks to, parental choice. I think the play in general begs of you that you engage in there's that term 'imaginative empathy,'-- which is like a Krista Tippett term, that she would probably- who I love, but I am sorry to say--

Alison Stewart: Shout out to NPR now.

Jessica Hecht: I am-- as Suzanne is, and as we all would be- huge NPR fans. It is engaged in the idea that we should understand each other's needs for our own kids. That's her view on vaccines.

Alison Stewart: She could easily be a villain in this play, and she's not at all Was that important to you?

Jessica Hecht: Super important, yes. She really believes in that value system and she really is a woman for this moment in time. I think if we were to have a kind of moral agenda about what we should enter this year feeling. She definitely tries not to see anybody with a different standpoint as being evil. That's really where she's at, so I really appreciate that you don't find her a villain because I prepared all these things to say to people.

Alison Stewart: Oh, really?

Jessica Hecht: Yes, when you think this might come up-- not to you and all, but just in general to audience members- and I haven't needed to use any of them. [laughs]

Thomas Middleditch: Yes.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting.

Thomas Middleditch: Well, it's part of the humanization of her character that you do so well and that Jonathan has written for you. It's really hard to make an argument or not an argument. I don't think the play makes an argument. I think the play presents the difficulty of having the conversation with people who have opposing views on a topic like vaccination, which, as we've seen in the greater scheme of society, has proven to be divisive AF.

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: If you are going to present the argument in reduced terms of caricatures and two dimensional people who just go, "That's bad. That's good. That's whatever," congrats. We've gone nowhere. We've accomplished nothing.

Alison Stewart: That's a little bit of Bill's problem.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes.

Bill Irwin: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Your character's problem, little bit.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes.

Alison Stewart: He walks both sides of the world at the same time.

Bill Irwin: Yes. Anna Shapiro, our director, said something really helpful, just one of those nuggets that gets dropped between. "Stand there, and I wouldn't sit down there," between it.

[laughter]

Bill Irwin: She said, "I don't think Don wants a mandate in the school. I don't think that's his, but Don wants the school to continue and the institution to prevail and thrive."

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking with Bill Irwin, Jessica Hecht and Thomas Middleditch, who all star in the new Broadway play Eureka Day, about a private elementary school deciding on its vaccination policy. It's running at the Samuel J. Friedman Theater through February 2nd. Eli, he becomes a focal point in the play in a not funny role when his kid gets sick. We'll just leave it there. How did you and the director decide to balance the funny side of Eli, which is there's comedy, but then a really serious side, his kid's sick?

Thomas Middleditch: Yes. It comes at a moment in the play where it comes on the heels of, like, the most jubilant scene, [chuckles] I would say, maybe. It's when the crescendo of, "You know what? This vaccination debate is kind of fun."

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: I like seeing people argue. I don't know. I suppose the omniscient pulling of the strings and manipulating the dials of what needs to happen is there. To me, it's just-- and I'm sure Anna would say the same thing- is that it feels authentic and then it feels earned, and then it doesn't feel too hard. We haven't yanked the wheel of the tone of the play too hard in another direction. Even in Eli's most, I suppose, vulnerable moment, he is still making an attempt to make light of the situation. There's some light attempts at humor. Then the following scene and the following moments of the play, even though the situation has now become quite dire, there's still commentary to be made and there's still levity to happen.

Yes, it is a sad moment and it's needed for Eli. It needed for the story to take it out of this intellectual debate, to take it out of a debate with no consequences. You have to see that things actually can go wrong quite severely.

Bill Irwin: Can I tell you a moment that was very moving in our rehearsal?

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Bill Irwin: I'm not nostalgic for the rehearsal room.

Jessica Hecht: Not at all, no. [laughs]

Bill Irwin: This was a tough, tough, challenging piece of work and a glorious one to be part of, but challenging. To watch Eli, played by Thomas Middleditch and Mako, played by our wonderful colleague, Chelsea Kurtz, undertake this scene tucked in the middle of the play, which is out of fabric with the rest of the play twist, in a shrewd way. Both of those actors were the two amongst us who don't have kids. It was a scene about-

Alison Stewart: That's interesting.

Bill Irwin: -your kid is in the hospital.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Bill Irwin: I think Anna was very shrewd in mining that with the two of them, but it was the other three of us who have kids sat there watching the rehearsal.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes. I had to be told what that felt like.

Jessica Hecht: No. I don't know,

Thomas Middleditch: It took me a while. Near the end is when I feel like I was like, "Oh, that's the impact of it." Before I was like, Oh, yes, it's sad." [laughs] I'm trying to think of my dog.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Thomas Middleditch: Like, "Oh, geez. If my dog was in the hospital."

Jessica Hecht: Oh, I love my dog like he's my child.

Thomas Middleditch: No, yes, I know, but I was trying to put myself as someone who doesn't typically go into a lot of vulnerable scenes.

Jessica Hecht: My kids hate that I said that. I'm so sorry. I love you more. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Yes, I get that.

Thomas Middleditch: Oh, sure.

Alison Stewart: Can I ask,?Jessica, what was tough about the rehearsal process?

Bill Irwin: [laughs]

Jessica Hecht: Oh, it's very difficult. Now as we're performing it, Jonathan is even more prescient and investigative in terms of what he's looking at in Newman behavior. It's written like a very complex choral piece of music where each voice-- Also, it's written horizontally for many scenes on the page so that you hear the choir speaking. I always love that. I think all of us have that kind of temperament where we love when language is on a page as though it's art, as though it's material and color. He did that, but it's not. it was written originally for a group of other voices, sso we were trying desperately to feel that rhythm and then hold onto the integrity of what we thought would be the rhythm of that.

It's almost like we had to do a rearrangement of a piece of music that we knew worked, but we were like, "We're still gonna play it as a folk song, but we got to slightly zhuzh it." [laughs] It was very difficult and it was actually very psychologically disturbing at times. It felt awkward. We didn't want it just to be satire. It is so funny, but even if we were as skilled as the best SNL team, you couldn't mind the other moments. You are as skilled, Thomas, as the best SNL player.

Thomas Middleditch: Enough.

Jessica Hecht: Anyway-

Alison Stewart: You didn't want it to be satire.

Jessica Hecht: We didn't. We actually just almost passionately all said to each other, "It can't just live in that place because we can't find the other scenes." Anna surely felt the same way as did Jonathan, but his heart.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes, it's naturally satirical. I don't think you have to lean. It's making a commentary on everything, but if you only do that, or if it is reduced to solely that, it feels like it's not big enough for the run that MTC has given us. It feels like if you're going to two-dimensionalize it, that might be better for, I don't know, a smaller space, maybe. Not to say that that's the incorrect way of doing it, but I don't know. When we are attempting to put it up in this capacity with everyone involved, with the director, with the cast, with everything, it's like, "Okay, we have to make sure that we have more there."

Jessica Hecht: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Have to ask about the Zoom scene.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Okay. There's a scene in it which you're trying to have a meeting with all the parents who are involved. It's Zoom. To your point, it's before 2020, before we know what to do with Zoom exactly, and the screen is behind you. It just devolves. The whole meeting devolves, but you all are having discussions among yourselves.

Bill Irwin: So earnest.

Alison Stewart: Well, it's interesting because I went with somebody who had seen the show twice. I was listening to you guys and looking at the screen, and he was listening to you because he knew what was gonna happen on the screen. He realized there's really interesting conversations going on.

Thomas Middleditch: I'm glad that's his take. Not total regret. "This time, I'm going to--"

Jessica Hecht: Thank your friend.

Thomas Middleditch: He's following a minor character at Sleep No More or something. Like, Yes, couple regrets. I should have stuck with the main guys."

[laughter]

Jessica Hecht: Oh, my God. That's so genius that you said, "I'm following a minor character in Sleep no More."

Bill Irwin: That's what you feel like through much of that scene.

Jessica Hecht: I just adore you for saying it that way.

Bill Irwin: Naively, Alison, we rehearsed that like diligent actors.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask. Tell me more. Tell me more about the rehearsal process.

Bill Irwin: We just didn't know.

Jessica Hecht: No one laughed. No, not a peep.

Bill Irwin: No one knew to give us the help. If there had been a voice to say, "Oh, by the way, while you're having this exchange between Don and Suzanne, there's going to be one of the hugest laughs you've ever heard in the theater, and it has nothing to do with what you're doing." It's interesting. We call it the Zoom scene, too, but again, the story takes place before Zoom. This is an online sort of connection via Facebook, I think, originally.

Alison Stewart: Google me or something. Yes.

Bill Irwin: Exactly. That Eli has patched together in his savvy. It is before Zoom consciousness for the characters, but not for the audience. If you love deep, big laughter in the theater, this is a great thing to be part of. My dear friend and Mad as a Hatter colleague David Scheiner, who lives now in Germany, but whom I've been on stage with, he just loves laughter in the theater. I'm telling him, "If you can make it over here, you're going to hear people laughing."

Jessica Hecht: Guffawing.

Bill Irwin: Yes, in a deep way, which, as [chuckles] Thomas says, it's sometimes nothing to do with us, and it's our craft to kind of hold place for the audience.

Alison Stewart: I was going to ask.

Bill Irwin: So they can get the whole story.

Alison Stewart: Yes, what do you see as your job in that scene?

Jessica Hecht: Well, Jonathan, I asked for some media writing-

Bill Irwin: [laughs]

Jessica Hecht: -with the complete lack of awareness that no one really could care less. He gave me all this dialogue about Merck and the painkiller Vioxx. Were you able to catch any of that? [laughs]

Alison Stewart: I was going back and forth between what you were saying and what was on the screen.

Jessica Hecht: I could recite. I was just like glamoured.

Alison Stewart: I'll ask my friend.

Jessica Hecht: I just find it thrilling that the integrity of our characters is held up. [chuckles] Yes, Yes. I feel like I'm in The Office.

Alison Stewart: Is part of your job physical at that point?

Jessica Hecht: Physical?

Alison Stewart: I'm wondering.

Thomas Middleditch: Yes, it's a little bit. Anna said it. I thought she said it pretty well at some point. She was like, "The text on the screen isn't funny without the visual. Even if it's only visual, but even if you're only catching glimpses of a passionate discussion, it's not funny without that." It's like, if you're just reading this conversation, it's like, "Okay, yes," you need to have that in the background of earnest deliberation between people who are like making points and counterpoints. To everyone, the thing that we're all darting around or that we're all touching on, I suppose, is like, for me, I'm a total laugh goblin. I need it. If I don't get it, I'm like, everything is a failure.

[laughter]

Thomas Middleditch: We're in rehearsal process, and I'm walking away from this scene being like, "Well, the play's a disaster-"

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Thomas Middleditch: -because we don't have the text. We don't have that. We don't have the two pieces. The very crucial piece of that scene in play, we don't have it. It was only till the first night of previews where I walked off being like, "Oh, okay. Oh, that scene works. I owe Jonathan an apology."

Jessica Hecht: We all do. Jonathan said quite boldly, "People are going to be uproariously laughing." We all walked away like that is absolutely nothing we can count on. How dare he? He has no idea. New York, the bar is so hot. Cut to "Ha ha, ha, ha."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: The other laugh comes from you, sir-

Bill Irwin: Uh-oh.

Alison Stewart: -when you say, "I wonder if mime school is still open?"

Jessica Hecht: Aw. [laughs]

Bill Irwin: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: It's a very sweet moment for you.

Bill Irwin: It is such a sweet moment. People often say, "Oh, that scene that you and Jessica do, he must have written that with you two in mind." He didn't.

Alison Stewart: Oh, really?

Bill Irwin: He wrote it with an imagined Don in mind who's dedicated his whole life to teaching and school administration but who still secretly thinks, "Maybe I could have a mime career."

[laughter]

Bill Irwin: That's Berkeley, California, in a little old nutshell. That's just one example of Jonathan's shrewdness in writing.

Alison Stewart: What would you like people to talk about after seeing this play, Thomas?

Thomas Middleditch: You know what? Actually, it came after one of the nights I came out to sign the playbills of thousands of people were waiting on me. A woman came up to me. She said-- how do I say this without giving away the end?- Basically, she was like, "That's how it ends? That's what happens? Because without giving it away, it's a bit of a struggle, right? I was like," Yes, that's the point. What you're wrestling with right now, that sort of potential. You don't feel like you've just got tucked into bed." I mean, depending on your political lenience, potentially, but you feel like maybe you got to put to bed, but not all the lights are off and you're having trouble sleeping. That's the whole point.

Alison Stewart: Yes. Eureka Day is performing at the Samuel J. Friedman through February 2nd. My guests have been Bill Irwin, Jessica Hecht, and Thomas Middleditch. Thanks for coming in the studio, by the way.

Jessica Hecht: Thank you.

Bill Irwin: Thank you, Alison.

Jessica Hecht: Thank you.