Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It here on WNYC. I'm Tiffany Hanssen in for Alison Stewart who is on vacation. This year marks the 250th birthday of Jane Austen, the beloved, trailblazing English writer. Austen wrote six novels in her lifetime, including two that were published posthumously. In the two centuries since her death, Austen's work has become certifiable classics, novels like Pride and Prejudice, Emma, Mansfield Park, and Persuasion are taught in schools around the globe. They've been adapted into countless television shows, movies. They've influenced generations of romance novelists and satirists, and they've had a profound impact on our next two guests.

Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jennifer Egan and best-selling novelist Helen Fielding are both participating in a Jane Austen celebration tonight at the 92nd Street Y. Helen is especially indebted, if I can speak for you, to Austen's work. Fans of her book Bridget Jones's Diary will know one of the main romantic leads is named after the Pride and Prejudice character Mr. Darcy. Both authors will be discussing Austen's work and her legacy at the 92nd Street Y tonight at 7:30 alongside some other special guests.

By the way, little plug, there are still in-person and virtual tickets available at 92ny.org, but first, we have with us the authors in studio to talk about 250 years of Jane Austen. Listeners, before we dive in, let's invite you into the conversation as well. What do you remember about Jane Austen's work? Do you remember the first time you read Jane Austen? What is your favorite novel? Do you have a favorite adaptation? I'm sure there are feelings. We're all discussing things, Jane Austen for her 250th birthday. Give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call us, you can text us at that number.

If we're talking about the first time you read Jane Austen, I'm going to throw this to both of you. Okay, how about you, Jennifer? We'll start there. What was the first Jane Austen book you read, and do you remember that feeling of turning the pages and thinking, "What in the heck"?

Jennifer Egan: Well, yes. It was in 7th grade. I was assigned Pride and Prejudice in my English class, and I couldn't stand it.

Tiffany Hanssen: [laughs]

Jennifer Egan: I just thought, "What is this?" It seemed boring. I couldn't bear it. I told my mother this, and she was appalled because she is a real Jane Austen fan and to this day can talk about characters in any and all of her novels by name with no effort. She said that summer, "I won't accept this. I'm going to read you the book." We sat down and she read Pride and Prejudice to me, and I was enthralled.

Tiffany Hanssen: Interesting.

Jennifer Egan: There was something about the experience of being on my own with it at that age. I think maybe just a little too young, but having my mother maybe with all of her excitement and enthusiasm reading it, I totally felt the fever of the excellent plotting and just true suspense of that novel.

Tiffany Hanssen: Helen.

Helen Fielding: Yes, maybe it is an age thing, because I think I was 15 when I read it, and I was given it to read at school. Frankly, I had found a lot of the literary books. I think we'd had Tristram Shandy, which I was told was funny, and I didn't find it funny, and Moby-Dick. Then I suddenly had this novel which was so modern to me, to have a woman who was so independent, who was so ironic, so funny, so feminist, saw people so clearly, and with this magically perfect romantic comedy plot.

It was quite magical for me. Really Elizabeth Bennet was quite a sort of role model for me, which I think my family were quite relieved about, given some of my behavior, because she's actually very well behaved and good and sensible.

Tiffany Hanssen: We'll just skip over that. [crosstalk] Yes, we'll skip over that. Is there a novel of Jane Austen's that you think is underrated?

Helen Fielding: Well, I think there's a novel she thought was underrated because she had terrible second album syndrome. She had a huge success with, I think, Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice, though they were anonymous in those days. They built a brand like that, but then Mansfield Park came out, and she thought it was going to be really well received, and nobody reviewed it.

I think she was sort of rather bitter about that for the rest of her life, but I certainly have stolen the plots from Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion for my first two novels because I thought they'd been well market researched over a number of centuries, and I thought Jane Austen wouldn't mind, and anyway, she was dead.

Tiffany Hanssen: "And Anyway, She Was Dead."

Helen Fielding: And much better at plotting than me.

Tiffany Hanssen: That's a good title for a book, actually, "And Anyway, She Was Dead."

Helen Fielding: It could be a spin off, yet another.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Helen, you talk about her work being so influential to you at a period in your life. Jennifer, I'm wondering, what is it about her work that continues to resonate-- There's a 7th grader right now reading something and thinking, "Oh, this is exactly what I needed. This is exactly--" What is it about Jane Austen that is able to transcend all of these decades and decades?

Jennifer Egan: Well, I think there's a sort of mathematical perfection about her books in that she somehow creates an environment in which--, although there are very few options. I mean, this was a very static world. There were no trains, there were no telegraphs. I mean, this was a tiny world in which there were very few choices about who might marry whom, and yet she creates an atmosphere of suspense and confusion and excitement with so few materials, so there's a kind of virtuosity in that, a kind of clarity in it that's just so exciting.

I also think her characters are fantastic. I mean, as Helen just said, Elizabeth Bennet, Mr. Darcy. I mean, these are people who really kind of jump off the page, and they're very different from each other. She didn't really repeat herself. It's amazing. Her heroines are all very different from each other. I just think, honestly, the books are so good. All the things that make good fiction are there. Tremendous plotting, great characters, humor. As Helen said, surprise. That combination of surprise and inevitability, which is sort of the holy grail of fiction, as I think of it. There's just a lot to enjoy. They're fun. The books are fun.

Tiffany Hanssen: We're talking with Jennifer Egan and Helen Fielding about the 250th anniversary, I guess, is the right way to put it, of Jane Austen and her life. Listeners, we want you in the conversation as well. Talk to us about your Jane Austen experience. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Let's bring Ariam in Huntington into the conversation. Good morning-- or good afternoon I should say.

Ariam: Hi. Good morning. How are you doing?

Tiffany Hanssen: Good. Your Jane Austen story?

Ariam: My first experience [crosstalk]--

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes.

Ariam: Yes. My first experience with Jane Austen was when I was younger I would watch black and white movies, and I loved the Laurence Olivier and Greer Garson version of Pride and Prejudice, and I'd watch it over and over and over again. I knew the whole thing backwards and forwards, but it wasn't until I was older that I actually realized it was based on a book. Of course, back then, all of the movies, anything that they made, they did not have every scene that was in the book.

When I read the book at 16, and they got to Pemberley, it was like an entire new world opened up to me, and it was just magical. By the end of the book, I was crying just because it was over. I couldn't even believe it was over. I wanted more. It was crazy. It's one of the few books that I read every couple of years, and I know I'm not the only one because it's just like going home, my favorite characters. I love anything that's about it. I even love Pride Prejudice and the Zombies. [laughs] I thought it was hilarious.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right, thank you so much for the call. We appreciate it. All right. The beginning of Pride and Prejudice, it is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of good fortune-, I should have let you read this, Helen. It's much better in your voice. -of good fortune must be in want of a wife. Marriage, marriage, marriage for a woman who was never married plays a lot into her work. Helen, why? And how is she able to capture it so well?

Helen Fielding: Well, she's the master of the astute phrase and a master of mistress, if you like, of dialogue, but also, if you think about it, every single heroine of Jane Austen's is a singleton. She writes about women who are in the position between being a child and being either a wife or someone who has failed to be married off. I think one of the things that's wonderful about her writing is that it's like she's writing on a tiny bit of ivory. It seems such a tiny story, but you understand so much about the politics of the time. There's soldiers everywhere.

They're in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars, and the economics of the time, and the harsh reality of the economics for women was that unless you were a rich widow or you had a rich family, your options were really limited and you were very, very reliant on marriage just to live really. I think Jane Austen was really interested in that dichotomy between love and romance. I think her own parents had married for love. The sort of financial transaction which marriage can be, as we saw in Pride and Prejudice, where her best friend married the hilariously creepy Mr. Collins, sycophant. I think she wrote really well about women's lot at that time and their lack of choice and power.

Tiffany Hanssen: We are marking the 250th birthday of Jane Austen with Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jennifer Egan and best-selling novelist Helen Fielding. We have a text, "The first time I read Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice, I was 19, and my grandfather had tried to get me to read her for years. I had put it off because I thought the subject matter was boring and indeed found that to be true when I finally did get into it, but I was also absolutely taken aback by Jane Austen's mastery of the English language-" To your point, Helen.

"-and tireless effort to find the perfect words for the intricacies of human social interaction." Listeners, if you'd like to join this conversation and celebrate 250 years of Jane Austen, you can reach us, you can call us, you can text us, 212-433-9692, 212-433- WNYC, and we'll continue this conversation in just a minute. It's All Of It. I'm Tiffany Hanssen in for Alison Stewart. Don't go anywhere.

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Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It. I'm Tiffany Hanssen in for Alison Stewart who is on vacation. We are marking the 250th birthday of Jane Austen, that beloved, trailblazing English writer. There is an event tonight at the 92nd Street Y at 7:30. At that event will be Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jennifer Egan and best-selling novelist Helen Fielding who are both in studio with us now talking about Jane Austen. I'm wondering, Jennifer, if you think she would refer to herself or think of herself as a, I'm putting up the air quotes now, romance novelist?

Jennifer Egan: That's a good question. I mean, that term is sort of a publishing category now that I-- in a way I'm not sure is applicable to her time, but maybe yes. I mean, the idea was that you were supposed to make a marriage that both made sense in terms of there had to be money to live on and also you were supposed to be in love. Her work is full of marriages in which one of those two things didn't fall into place, and those seem to be kind of unhappy marriages.

There was definitely a notion of romance being important. I mean, there is not a sense that marriage is just a transactional bargain that keeps everyone fed. The fun of it is in seeing whether love can somehow prevail, and it does for her heroines, so I'm not sure she would have minded that term.

Tiffany Hanssen: She is the grandmother of a lot of other people's work. I'm wondering, Helen, how you see her influence in novels today.

Helen Fielding: Well, the thing is it's a perfect plot, Pride and Prejudice. It sort of doesn't go wrong. It's so solid. I think there's been at least 17 straight movies as well as Pride and Prejudice and the Zombies and Mr. Darcy, Vampyre and Mrs. Darcy and the Aliens and so on, but personally, I think it's often said there's only about 10 stories, a romantic structure, a triangular romantic structure is one of them. I think the fact that she chooses that structure does not mean that her work is confined to the subject of love, and I think she talks about a great deal in human nature, in terms of character, in terms of principles, morality, and as I said, politics. Mansfield Park even brings in slavery.

I think she's very much underestimated when people just say, "Oh, Jane Austen, she's a female writer, and it's all romance." Certainly when you get to work at stealing that plot from Pride and Prejudice or Persuasion, you realize it really is just a device on which you can hang an awful lot of theme, and she is a master craftsman, working with the skeleton of a story, with the themes of a story, and then putting this wonderful sparkling wit and dialogue on top so you can almost tell which character is speaking without having the name attached to it. They've all got their own linguistic patterns.

Jennifer Egan: She also wrote so much about class, which was a critical factor in English life at that time, and is very critical of people who are snobby. I mean, there are several hilariously awful aristocrats in her novels who are just ludicrous. I mean, their snobbery makes them look ridiculous even as they think everyone else is ridiculous. Also, there are very poignant aspects to it, women who-- There's one in Northanger Abbey, Catherine Morland is turned out of the home of the man that she loves by his father because he learns that she's one of 10 children and doesn't have as much money or really any as he thought, so there's a class critique that is really strong, I think, in all of the novels.

Tiffany Hanssen: Do you think that class critique is one of the reasons, perhaps, why she is so relevant for so many people today?

Jennifer Egan: I don't know. I mean, I think sure in this-- I mean, I don't think we have a class system in America that really mirrors the kind of class system she was writing about exactly. We don't really have an aristocracy, unless you call celebrity, which is, I guess, an argument you can make, but I think the feeling of being looked down on and considered second class and having one's opportunities limited by that is something anyone can relate to. I mean, there are all kinds of ways in which all of us confront the sense that we're sort of structurally excluded, and that's something that I think is a very human feeling.

Tiffany Hanssen: Helen.

Helen Fielding: Yes. I think what's so great about her is that she does it. It's fun the way she writes about it, and she is just by nature, by her phrasing, by the way she looks at things, she's funny, she's ironic. You see it in her letters to her sister. There was a quote I always love, which said, "Next week I shall begin my operations on my hat, on which my principal hopes of happiness depend." She was very ironic about the fact that these poor women just had to sit around embroidering hats and things with nothing else to do. There's something about looking at class without anger or self-pity or resentment, but just with a piercing, ironic, observational eye, which makes it huge fun to read.

Tiffany Hanssen: Jennifer.

Jennifer Egan: I agree. There's no sense of strident judgment in her work. I mean, she's playing it for fun. Another thing that's so striking in reading her books is just how limited women's worlds were then. I mean, the men come and go on horseback. A lot of the women in her novels can't even ride, so they are really stuck. We feel that social media makes our lives sort of open and known, people know too much about each other, but think about a small town in rural England in which everyone is gossiping.

The arrival of a letter from someone is the talk of the town for a week, so there's a feeling of-- these were really very circumscribed lives that these women lived, and we feel that, but again, not in a harsh way, in a sort of playful way.

Tiffany Hanssen: So why-- Oh, sorry, Helen. I'm wondering why people call her a feminist. You're describing a woman character who is very limited, so where does the feminism come in?

Helen Fielding: Because her heroines are plucky and they stand up to men, like the way Elizabeth Bennet stands up to Mr. Darcy is just brilliant. He's sort of so rude and unfriendly to people and he's sort of moaning on about this. Then she just says, "Well, perhaps you'd like to practice being friendly." Then I think it's Persuasion, Captain Harville saying, "I do not think I ever opened a book in my life which did not have something to say on women's fickleness."

Then Anne Elliot says, "But they were all written by men," so they're very good at just turning round in a polite sort of way, sticking it back to the men in the way that they can, and the only power women really have is refusal of a proposal. When Mr. Darcy proposes to Elizabeth, and I sort of copied this in Bridget Jones-- and had Colin Firth, Mr. Darcy, giving her the rudest ever proposal just to go out on a date. Elizabeth just turns around and says no, and it's brilliant, and that is power.

That's taking the power that you have, and it's dignity and self-respect. Jane Austen herself, she turned down a chap called, amusingly, Harris Bigg-Wither, who could have saved the family. She turned down his proposal, having initially accepted it, and decided to be a writer instead and make her way that way.

Tiffany Hanssen: We're grateful for that, aren't we?

Helen Fielding: We're so grateful.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes.

Helen Fielding: I think Harris Bigg-Wither would have got in the way.

?Tiffany Hanssen: Yes [laughs].

?Speaker: For sure.

Jennifer Egan: Also, there's never a sense that women are inferior. There's a sense that circumstances have put them in a position where they can only exert their power in certain ways, so I think what makes her a feminist is that she absolutely believed women were equal in a world in which every sign said that they weren't and they were treated as if they weren't.

Helen Fielding: She showed it in her own professional life as well, like in her publishing life. She was really brave, and she had a tough time, and she would go in and take meetings herself and do her own deals.

Jennifer Egan: She had terrible luck because she sold Northanger Abbey, which was the first book she finished. This is like one of these publishing nightmares to a publisher who never published the book, and when she asked for it back, he said, yes, you can have it for a price that she couldn't afford. The last book that she published was actually the first that she finished, and imagine how totally disheartening that must have been, but she persevered.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. We've been talking about 250 years of Jane Austen with Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jennifer Egan and best-selling novelist Helen Fielding, both of whom will be at the 92nd Street Y tonight talking about Austen's work and legacy. If you want in-person or virtual tickets, yes, you can still get them, they are available at 92ny.org. Helen, Jennifer, thank you so much for your time and have a great time tonight. I'm sure you will.

Jennifer Egan: Thanks so much.

Helen Fielding: Thank you.