Alison Stewart: This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart, Illustrator, author and New York magazine cartoonist Harry Bliss has a new book out. Its cover features a drawing of his dog Penny, and it's titled You Can Never Die: A Graphic Memoir. Well, Penny has died and Penny was one of the most important relationship in Harry's life. Grieving her has helped him make sense of other parts. Some of it difficult, like his abusive childhood and his relationship with his parents, and some of it uplifting, like his connection to nature and animals and his need to create art. You Can Never Die was published yesterday. And joining me now to talk about it is Harry Bliss. Harry, welcome back to All of It.

Harry Bliss: Thanks, Alison. Nice to be here.

Alison Stewart: You start the book not with an introduction, but with an intention. You say that introductions seem cold to you. Why did you start with an intention?

Harry Bliss: The idea was to create intimacy in the book. That was my objective with the whole project. Yes, it's like a curated, intimate view of my brain during three years of loss, but interspersed with some humor, I hope.

Alison Stewart: Why did it feel like the right time to write it?

Harry Bliss: It was cathartic for me to write to get through the process of grieving. Pet owners in the world who lost a dog can appreciate how tough that can be. I had never experienced grief like that before in my life, so when Penny died, it was, I wailed. It was very difficult. Writing about it was a way to cathart and transcend it a little bit.

Alison Stewart: How would you describe your creative relationship with Penny?

Harry Bliss: I wouldn't have a career if it weren't for Penny. [laughter]

Harry Bliss: She has inspired countless cartoons, a couple covers for the New Yorker, and God, she was in the first book I did with Steve Martin. He knew Penny. We both grieved there. She was an intimate part of my wife and I, our lives for 17 years. That's a long time.

Alison Stewart: How did Penny help you relate to other people in your life?

Harry Bliss: Relating to other people, there's a patience that you have with animals, with your pet, and a kindness that I certainly didn't have growing up. That's in the memoir. It was fairly abusive, and I would say most of my childhood was fear-based, but the relationship with Penny opened up a window to empathy, kindness, love, patience, some pretty good stuff.

Alison Stewart: They're also-- it's really quite simple- dogs. They walk up to you, "Hey, you want to hang out?"

Harry Bliss: It's true.

Alison Stewart: You should, great. If you don't want to okay, next.

Harry Bliss: It's true.

Alison Stewart: That's the thing that I learned from my dog. Passed away pretty young at five years old and I was so like just down for months.

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Just like, "Aw."

Harry Bliss: I know.

Alison Stewart: He wasn't here, and yet, I learned so much from him. Go, Rocco, [laughs] but that was one of the things I learned when I was walking him was like, he just goes up to people and says, "Hi, how you doing? You want friends? No? Okay."

Harry Bliss: Right?

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] Next?

Harry Bliss: You think about how many people Rocco's lot, how they smiled at your dog on those walks and they thought, "Oh, that's cute." We take that stuff for granted. Well, some of us do, but that's another essay I write in the book, is just how many people. We would take our dog Penny up to the University of Vermont. We have a house there, and we'd walk on the campus, and the students would just melt, man, when they walked around the campus and they would see Penny. That's significant, a being that brings that kind of joy. It's pretty cool.

Alison Stewart: Harry Bliss is a cartoonist, a New York Magazine cover artist, and illustrator of children's books. His new book is titled You Can Never Die, A Graphic Memoir. It's about his life, his art, and his late dog, Penny. As a cartoonist, you need to be very careful with language because you only have a certain number of words you can use. How did you approach language in this memoir?

Harry Bliss: Well, I went for it. [chuckles] Really, I didn't hold back on it, and so the language is pretty frank. I talk about some things that were not necessarily tough for me to talk about, but difficult for me to release into the world. Some of those things are the death of my parents, drug use, my fondness for alcohol.

Alison Stewart: Yes, there's a line, "I was a cocaine enthusiast. I illustrated three of my best children's book while snorting the stuff."

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Why did you want to be so frank?

Harry Bliss: Part of it, when you write, it's really an autobiography. I mean, it's labeled a memoir. In fact, Sy Hersh is the one that called it an autobiography because he had read it, and he said that this is more of an autobiography.I want it to be frank because that's the only way you're going to get intimacy with people. People are only going to be able to relate to you and have a certain connection to you. If you lay it all out.

Alison Stewart: It's not memories. They're facts about your life.

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: As opposed to a memoir, how you remembered, how you experienced it versus, like, "No, this happened."

Harry Bliss: Yes. You know what? Alison, it's like time is such a weird concept, right, and memories are fascinating. That's one of the reasons I kept a journal or keep a journal, is to record the memories. Again, I say this in the book, it's my way of holding on to my life because I can go back in a journal from 10 years ago and read about a dream I had and think, now, "Oh, that was an interesting dream or an interesting encounter with Alison in New York City at the studio," so whatever. It's there.

Alison Stewart: In the book, you write about your parents, There's a lot to take in about them. Did the book help you understand them more?

Harry Bliss: Yes, I think that but sadly, most of my understanding came from my parents' passing because it all unfolded organically. As I was writing about Penny, my parents both passed within a month of each other.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wow.

Harry Bliss: Yes, so I learned about them by going through the house. I'm still in the process of doing this, by the way. It takes a long time-

Alison Stewart: I know.

Harry Bliss: [chuckles] Yes, but it's all part of the process of just being human, really. We have to deal with this and understand it so we can move forward in life with more of an understanding.

Alison Stewart: I mean, you came to the understanding, I think you write that your mom, the truth was she was sick.

Harry Bliss: Yes. She had dementia.

Alison Stewart: You dedicate your book to them. Why did you decide to dedicate You Can Never Die to your parents?

Harry Bliss: Well, because I wouldn't be here without them. The gift of life, of being alive and experiencing as much of the curiosity that is out there is because of them. How can you not dedicate a book to them, even in light of all the dysfunction and physical abuse they dished out? It felt right.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Harry Bliss. His new book is titled You Can Never Die: A Graphic Memoir. He will be at PNT Knitwear tonight at 6:30pm for tickets and more information, head to ptnitwear.com. All right, I should tell listeners that you have an imaginary interview you did with Terry Gross-

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: -in this book. [laughs] First of all, why did you use an imaginary interview with Terry Gross in the middle of the book? [laughs]

Harry Bliss: The interview, there are a couple reasons. First of all, the show takes place in Philadelphia. I spent many years in Philadelphia, formative years. I went to art school there. I worked in various restaurants and. Most of that interview is about giving up my baby for adoption with my then girlfriend in 1986. I couldn't find a window into that topic. It was the only way I knew how to talk about it was if someone was asking me questions. When I started to write about it, it didn't work. So I thought, this is a vehicle or some sort of scaffolding for that to be discussed.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting you put where she laughs. She laughs at your jokes. [laughs]

Harry Bliss: Well, you know what? I did some research. I listened to the show, and I'm a fan. I looked at excerpts and actually figured out exactly what she says, like, so I wanted to sound authentic.

Alison Stewart: Obviously, you had to listen to radio to be able to write this. What did you listen to? Were you listening to Fresh Air? What were you experiencing as you were thinking, like, "I'm going to use this as a device, just objectively?" How did you listen?

Harry Bliss: I imagined it. First of all, I'm a huge radio fan. I love radio. I wish that was a career for me, but it's too late now, but I love radio. I was there in my mind with Terry, and that's how I wrote it. I mean, that's a lot of good writing, I think, is just putting yourself in the moment, and as an artist, I do a lot of that.

Alison Stewart: In the moment? How?

Harry Bliss: I imagine myself in the studio with Terry, and I imagine what she says. What kind of questions would Terry Gross ask me? What would she laugh at? I know. I'm pretty confident that if Terry reads this interview, I'm pretty sure she'll say, "You know what? That's pretty good." [laughs]

Alison Stewart: "I would laugh there." I would laugh at the beginning of that question." You have a son, Alex-

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: -from a later relationship. Not with Terry Gross.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Have your children read this?

Harry Bliss: Yes, in fact, my son and his partner, Sarah, they live in Brooklyn. They were both very helpful in putting the book together. I wanted youthful kind of eyes on it. And they're both very smart people, and I trust them implicitly. They helped me curate the book.

Alison Stewart: How so?

Harry Bliss: The book is a compilation of journal entries, prose and cartoons, so we needed those things to be meshed together, integrated in a way that was coherent and somewhat funny and interesting. You can read one of the essays. The opening cartoon relates to that essay in some way. Alex and Sarah were really helpful in that. And then the journal pages that may follow the essay have to do with the prose there, too, so they're all related.

Alison Stewart: Also, you had to figure out how to organize it.

Harry Bliss: That's right, yes. Oh, my God, it was so hard to do. I want to say it was such a drag, and it was, but it was a very difficult process because we wanted it to be an arc. It had to be an arc. It had to be coherent, in a way, and true. It's one of the books I think you can pick the book up at various stages. It was over 500 pages when we first did the first edit, and it stands at 400 now. Now there's a lot of art in the book, but, yes, it was a lot of work.

Alison Stewart: That must have been an emotional process.

Harry Bliss: It was, and it still is.

Alison Stewart: Winnowing it down.

Harry Bliss: Yes, it's tough. We had to decide. There's a couple essays. There was one with James Gandolfini that I really like that's not in the book. There are some art school essays. Who knows? Maybe I'll get to write another one because, honestly, there's some funny stuff in there. It was emotional for me, and I cried when I had to do the copy edit, which is brutal. I've not had to do that, but we had to do three and four copy edits of the manuscript. Every time I did that, I would cry. I really would. I would laugh, too, because there's some pretty irreverent cartoons in there that would never get published.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Just thinking. My guest is Harry Bliss. We're talking about his new book, You Can Never Die: A Graphic Memoir. Last time you were on the show, it was with Steve Martin. I think it was during the COVID period, the book Number One is Walking Here. What did you learn from working on that project that you were able to use on this project?

Harry Bliss: I learned from Steve. Working with Steve is great because, first of all, most people don't know this about him. He's really good in the moment. He won't let anything linger. He'll do it right then and there. He's great off the cuff, but I'm not sure how much I learned from Steve in terms of putting this book together.

Alison Stewart: How about just the publishing industry about putting books together?

Harry Bliss: Well, I've published 25 kids books, so I'm not sure. I think the copy edit was important-

Alison Stewart: The copy edit.

Harry Bliss: -and going back and looking at all the material. Steve's also, he's very particular about he wants to make sure that it reads right. It has to read right or that it has to have a certain rhythm to it. I knew that stuff going in because those are cartoons, and it has to have a rhythm to it. The things I learned from Steve are more about the person he is, as opposed to, yes, anything else.

Alison Stewart: What did you learn about yourself while you were writing this?

Harry Bliss: I learned that I loved my parents. [laughs] It's too bad. I learned that after they died, I had love that, it was there. It's unfortunate that I'm expressing it now. I had ample opportunities to express it when they were alive, and that was the big learn, but they didn't make it easy for me. People would tell me, "You should go talk to your parents, but you should go spend some time with your parents," but I didn't listen.

Alison Stewart: You're spending time with them now.

Harry Bliss: I am.

Alison Stewart: You have their stove.

Harry Bliss: Yes, my brother got me a little oven mitt that has a photograph of my parents on it. I'm in Cornish, New Hampshire. I come down to the house in the kitchen and look at the oven mat, and I say, "Hey, Mom. Hey, dad. What's going on? How you guys doing? Good to see you." Same thing with Penny. Penny is buried out back, and she's around. They're around.

Alison Stewart: I have to ask you. You live in Cornish? You live in Salinger's former home, yes?

Harry Bliss: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Is that-

Harry Bliss: -Jerry, we call him.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] Jerry.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Is the address that's written in the front of your book your address?

Harry Bliss: It is my address. It's funny because my wife said the same thing, "You mean you put your actual address in the book?" Yes, but it's not hard to find. All you have to do is Google JD Salinger's house and you can find it. It's not like we live in this world today where people can't find me.

Alison Stewart: Oh, it's true.

Harry Bliss: It doesn't get any easier than a flip phone-- not a flip phone- but an iPhone.

Alison Stewart: Do people visit, just show up?

Harry Bliss: Some people stop by, will drive by and take pictures of the house, but it's a dirt road. There's a lot of deer. There's a lot of ticks, good luck.

Alison Stewart: Beware of the ticks.

Harry Bliss: Good luck coming to my house, it's not easy to get there.

Alison Stewart: If you go on an average day, you're gonna draw. People are going see you draw. You draw every day, yes?

Harry Bliss: I draw every single day. I draw and write every day. I draw, read and write every day, and drink.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: What's your practice like? Are you doodling around? Are you sitting down to truly draw something?

Harry Bliss: Most of my practice is in a journal. I wake up every morning, take the dog out, cross the street, come back in, make the coffee, feed the dog, drop down in a La-Z-Boy. Break out the journal, the Mont Blanc Meisterstuck fountain pen, and I start writing. How did I sleep? What's the day look like? What dream did I have last night? What's on my palette for the day? What's going on for the day? Then I'll draw a square. I'll just draw a square and start putting ink to paper. It could be a tree. It could be a dog at the tree and maybe the dog's looking up at the tree.

These are things I like to draw, but there's no cartoon idea there. I'll draw something that is begging for a narrative and the narrative informs a caption and then it becomes a Bliss [chuckles] cartoon. They're not always all funny. They can be cute, but that's my process.

Alison Stewart: There's a new canine person in your, in your family?

Harry Bliss: Yes, Junior.

Alison Stewart: Yes, tell us about Junior.

Harry Bliss: He's amazing. He's an Aussie shepherd and he's mocha and white. He's just the best. He's so sweet. They're very active, hyper dogs. Most of them are not even say hyper, but they need a lot of running around, and he does as well. He's also just so sweet. Everybody calls him the Timothée Chalamet of dogs. He's gorgeous. He really is.

Alison Stewart: He's gorgeous.

Harry Bliss: I'll tell you, it's this thing of pet loss when you lose a pet. I look at Junior now and I know it's coming. I know this massive grief is coming and I'm still reckoning with it. I just don't know. I don't know how to deal with it. Just suffering, it's just I know the suffering is coming.

Alison Stewart: You could go first.

Harry Bliss: What's that?

Alison Stewart: You could go first before him.

Harry Bliss: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: It's not worry you. That's his problem.

Harry Bliss: It's very Charles Addams of you. [laughs] You're right. You know what? That might not be so bad. I wouldn't have to go through it, but it's suffering is part of the love. If you suffer, you know you've loved.

Alison Stewart: The book is called You Can Never Die: A Graphic Memoir. Harry Bliss will be at PNT Knitwear tonight at 6:30 PM. Thanks for coming to the studio.

Harry Bliss: Thanks, Alison.