Alison Stewart: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. It's wedding season. Whether you're a friend or in the wedding party, or an older relative, you have to deal with one thing, "What am I going to wear?" Hey, it's not entirely up to you. Along with details about the venue and a link to the couple's registry and sometimes, there's confusing dress code information. How optional is black-tie optional really? What does garden chic or cowboy cocktail even mean?

Someone on our staff got a dress code that said, "Brooklyn Chic." They're still trying to figure that out. What if you really, really hate your bridesmaid stress? Joining us for our series, What the Hack? Ways to Get Through Weddings. Here to navigate us through all your wedding guest tutorial questions is Gabby R. Duffy, Senior Editorial Director of Brides. Hey, Gabby.

Gabby Rello Duffy: Hi, Alison. Thanks for having me on today.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to hear stories about wedding guests' attire, what's a fashion mishap you've had at a wedding, or what did you do? How'd you decide what is or isn't appropriate to wear to a wedding? What's the worst bridesmaid dress you've ever worn, and any hacks and what to do with your bridesmaid's dress after it's over? We are taking your calls, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in. You can join me and Gabby on the air, or you can text to us at those two numbers. You say it is really important for guests to do their best to follow the dress code at a wedding. First of all, why is it a big deal?

Gabby Rello Duffy: It is one of your primary responsibilities as a guest to follow the dress code, whether you like it or not, as an attendee. The couple has asked you to be there to celebrate with them, and they've set a dress code to enhance the theme or the vibe, or the aesthetic they're going for. Dressing out of place in that way can really undermine the formality of the day, undermine how special this occasion is. It's not that hard for one night, for maybe four or five hours, to wear something a little more specific than you may have wanted to.

Alison Stewart: So it's not about you?

Gabby Rello Duffy: It's not. This one day, it's about someone else.

Alison Stewart: You say a good rule of thumb is not to wear something that you're not sure about. What are some good examples of signs that an outfit probably not right for a wedding?

Gabby Rello Duffy: I think if you have to text a friend and say, "Is this too white? Is this too revealing? Is this too showy? Does this feel like it fits with the dress code?" If you are questioning it for any reason, I would say just skip it. Don't stress yourself out. Don't potentially be that one person that all the other guests are talking about. There are always other options. In general, we say no white.

I would avoid cream or champagne too, just to be on the safe side. Sometimes silver can look a little white. Denim is a big no-no. Anything that feels too casual. Remember this is someone's special wedding day, someone's one chance to celebrate with everyone they love, and they've spent a lot of time and money making this occasion be something really spectacular. It's important, whether it is a casual wedding or a black-tie wedding, that you are honoring the couple's request.

Alison Stewart: What if there's no dress code listed?

Gabby Rello Duffy: This happens a lot. In modern-day weddings, I will say the millennials and the Gen Z couples are doing a really great job at perhaps being too specific, sharing mood boards and color swatches. If you are met with the rare couple these days who is not interested in detailing exactly what you should wear, I always say take cues from the formality of the invitation. If the couple has sent you an ornate boxed invitation that has confetti and butterflies flying out as you've opened it, it is probably going to be an incredibly formal event, and I would dress as such.

If you got an Evite or a text, it's probably going to be a little more casual, and the couple probably doesn't care too much what you're wearing. If it is somewhere in the middle, basic black and white invitation, look to the venue, see what it looks like. If it's a winery, it's probably going to be cocktail dresses or sundresses. If it is a historic mansion, I'd go a little bit more formal. Then, there are always your safe bets. If you're really not sure, I say dress a little more formally than you think you might need to. A cocktail dress for women in a dark, neutral color is always a great, safe bet, and for men, a dark suit. You can always lose the jacket. You can always lose the tie.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Delia, who is calling in from Brooklyn. Hey, Delia.

Delia: Hi. How are you today?

Alison Stewart: We're doing okay. Your friend's getting married in nine days. That's what I've heard.

Delia: Nine days, yes. My best friend's getting married in nine days. We're all very excited. I'm the maid of honor, and she and her fiancé have made up a dress code called Elevated Picnic, which they thought, I think, would sound relaxed but chic. What's turned out to be the case is that they're fielding a lot of questions from friends and family alike about what constitutes elevated picnics, does a denim dress work, does a pair of heeled Crocs work? Luckily, they have a great sense of humor. [laughs]

They are, I think, really enjoying the possibilities. As for someone who's going to be wearing a dress that was picked out by the bride, I'm really excited to roll up and see what elevated picnic means to all these people in nine days. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: This is interesting, but the bride helped you pick your dress out, so you are wearing elevated picnic wear.

Delia: She did.

Alison Stewart: What are you wearing?

Delia: I'm wearing something that I personally-- It's a great dress. It's beautiful. It's mid-length, green, floral. I wouldn't wear it to any picnic because I am, let's say, a less-than-elevated person in terms of my style. I'm wearing what you might think of as more of a traditional but casual bridesmaids dress. I'm just excited to see how that's going to fit into the rest of everyone's outfit.

Alison Stewart: We hope you have a fantastic day. Okay. This text, "We had an engagement party on the beach in Chicago, and we had the dress code as beach cocktail, but emphasized that people should be comfortable because it was about 100 degrees that day. Our guest displayed the full range of human garb. There's a photo of me with my family that looks exactly like that picture of the Paris Dispatch cast at Cannes." That is very funny.

My guest is Gabby Rello Duffy. She's senior editorial director at Brides. We're discussing the dos and don'ts of wedding guest fashion. It is our What the Hack? series, the wedding edition. We want to hear from you, what's the worst bridesmaid dress you've ever worn? What did you do with it? Have you had a fashion mishap at a wedding? Tell us all about it. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Let's talk colors. Now, unless it's a black-tie affair, the rule used to be that you should not wear black at a wedding. Is that still true?

Gabby Rello Duffy: Nope, it is not true today. I think this is-- One, if you don't want to wear black, you certainly don't have to. If you have a black dress you love, you can wear it to other events. Unless the couple has specified that they really want people in colorful attire, it is definitely seen as acceptable today.

Alison Stewart: Another big topic is red, whether it's appropriate for a wedding, but that's a Western thing. Red can be appropriate in certain cultures. What are the rules around red?

Gabby Rello Duffy: It is definitely one of those things that we hear a lot, too. We have heard, by and large, from all of our etiquette experts over the year that red is seen as an acceptable auspicious color for a wedding. Again, unless the couple has specified that they don't want anyone wearing red, you can feel empowered to wear it to a wedding.

Alison Stewart: This text says, "A tip I thought of because a guy who wore his Vespa helmet at my wedding, is in all of my photos of me walking down the aisle, take off your helmet so you don't look like the Martian who crashed the wedding in the pictures. I've been considering Photoshopping this guy out."

Gabby Rello Duffy: Sometimes, you have to get really specific.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] "No helmets," I guess we should say that. We know you shouldn't wear white at a wedding. Does that apply to all pastels, or is it just white-seeming fabric?

Gabby Rello Duffy: Pastels are acceptable, but I would personally be cautious of things like yellow, super pale yellow. Butter yellow is trending right now. It is everywhere, but there are definitely iterations of it that look far more white in person. I would just be cautious. I would see things before the day of the wedding. If you're an online shopper like me, I would definitely make sure that that package has arrived ahead of the wedding and that you have a backup if you're going with a pastel. A pale pink, as long as it really reads as pink, pale blue, totally acceptable, pale green, these are great colors, especially for this time of year.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned checking out the venue. What factors about the wedding venue where the wedding is taking place should you take into account as you prepare what you're going to wear?

Gabby Rello Duffy: I would say, looking to see what the formality and vibe of that venue is. Like I said, if someone's getting married at a historic mansion, those beautiful Newport mansions, those are fancy affairs. I would say that if you're looking at the website and you're seeing that the space looks like it is more ornate and has a lot of detailing, the couple chose that venue for a reason. It is very rare that someone is going to throw a black-tie wedding at their local bowling alley, for example.

Similarly, they're probably not going to spend the money that's associated with a super high-end ornate venue to throw a really casual affair. I would say just taking aesthetic cues, vibe cues, and figuring out, does this seem like they would want to-- How would they match the formality in dress? That can usually be a pretty safe bet for you.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Michael from Westchester. Hi, Michael. Thanks for making the time to call All Of It today.

Michael: Absolutely. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Big fan. I just wanted to contribute by saying, as an officiant, somebody who's officiated a number of weddings, I made the mistake once of not asking the bride and groom if I should maintain a formal attire. I went down to Florida, flew down there, and on the beach wore a very heavy suit, and everyone else was dressed casually. It was a beach wedding. Never occurred to me to ask them. There, I was sweating throughout the entire process, and I said, "What a mistake. I should have asked them in advance."

Alison Stewart: Did you sweat through your suit?

Gabby Rello Duffy: That's such a good point.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Sounds like Michael sweated through his suit. This is an interesting text, and I don't know if you have an answer for it, but I'm going to read it anyway. It says, "About wedding attire, since when are weddings costume parties? What is going on in the mind of the married couple's heads if they're demanding not only a gift, travel expenses, et cetera, from their guests, but also requiring them to acquire some garment that is absurd for them and that they'll never wear again?" What do you think of that question?

Gabby Rello Duffy: There are a few things. One, couples today are really paying for their weddings themselves. More often than not, we're paying for a significant portion of it themselves. I think that couples are feeling more empowered to plan the celebrations they want, which we love. We want them to plan a wedding that exemplifies their unique relationship and their union.

If you love this couple and you want to be there to celebrate their day, I know that it can be annoying sometimes to have to find cowboy cocktail attire or garden chic, whatever it may be, but you really want to be there for this couple on this special day. You don't have to buy something new for every theme. I think that's important. You probably have something in your closet that, with a little creative work, can work for the theme.

Or you just have to buy one small accessory, borrow an accessory. Another option is to rent attire. There are so many great rental websites for both full attire, accessories, small pieces, borrow from a friend. There are ways to do this affordably. I definitely can feel for guests who are attending multiple weddings in one season, and all have very different dress codes.

I know that that can feel overwhelming to figure out what feels appropriate for all of these. Buying attire for each doesn't always feel doable, but there are definitely ways to adapt what you have to work with the theme.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Michelle from Livingston, New Jersey. Hi, Michelle. What's your question?

Michelle: Hi, Alison. I am actually attending a black-tie affair in June, and I was wondering what the definition really is. In my case, I'm quite petite, short that is, and I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the idea of having to buy a long dress for this. My husband does not own a tux, but owns a black suit.

Gabby Rello Duffy: This is a good one. Black-tie, in my opinion, is one of the easier dress codes to decode. Generally speaking, for a long time, it was floor length only, but now longer cocktail-style dresses for women are definitely appropriate. If you have a mid-length dress in a more elevated fabric or pattern, something more neutral perhaps, that's definitely workable. You can just accessorize appropriately to make it feel a little bit more elevated and fancy.

For men, I think, and maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but a black suit is totally acceptable for a black-tie wedding. I don't think you always have to wear a tuxedo. I would say spend $30 and get a bow tie to pair with it so it feels a little more formal, but I definitely don't think you need to go out and actually invest in a tuxedo.

Alison Stewart: This says, "Regarding the wedding attire, please have the ladies check their shoes. If the invitation states farm, garden, or barn, stilettos are not the always appropriate choice."

Gabby Rello Duffy: That's so true. Shoes are a big thing. You really want to be comfortable and be able to enjoy the venue and enjoy the wedding itself. I always say, as you peruse the venue, look at the terrain too. If it's going to be outside, you'll want something with a wedge or something that has a more significant heel. For men, the same thing. You're not going to want to wear suede shoes to a grassy wedding where they might get wet. Couples should always try to identify that information for guests if they can. If they haven't, I think guests should just do their due diligence.

Alison Stewart: On the topic, let's talk to Lisa from Catskill. Hi, Lisa. You're on the air.

Lisa: Hi. I am from Upstate New York. We have a lot of barn weddings up by us. I think this is totally appropriate. I was literally just thinking, "We need to add shoes to the equation of the discussion of wedding attire." Because I've seen so many people show up in they're like fancy heels, Manolo Blahniks, and they get destroyed because they're at, let's say, a garden chic wedding or something like that. I think that's totally a great point about shoes.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much. This says, "I got married in 2022 at an Audubon Center and asked the guests to come in what makes them feel fancy. I had everything from gowns to Texas tuxedos. It was really fun to see everyone dress up to feel good and celebrate with us. Highly recommend." That's great advice.

Gabby Rello Duffy: Yes. I think if you are comfortable with guests arriving in a variety of different things, then that type of dress code is wonderful. It's so fun. It makes for a really conversational atmosphere. Guests are talking about what everyone's wearing, and it sparks conversations. I don't think for a super type-A couple who wants their wedding photos to look a certain way, that that's always going to be the best bet. If you want to just have a celebratory atmosphere, and you're okay with people probably being dressed to the nines and then other people being dressed far more casually, I love it.

Alison Stewart: We got this text from Olivia in Brooklyn. It says, "Hi, All Of It. When I was my best friend's maid of honor, she had a dream color scape for all her bridesmaids--" Oh, my goodness. "It was dead set on my wearing a tool dress in mauve. Ugh. The dress worked somehow, but afterward I dyed it on my stove top with good old-fashioned Rit dye in indigo, and now it is very cute." Thanks for the tip, Olivia. Let's talk to Margie, who's calling in from Pine Bush, New York. Hi, Margie. Thank you so much for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Margie: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I'm just wondering about tips for the mother of the groom or mother of the bride. My son is getting married in September at a Colorado ranchy, farmy kind of place, but I'm still the mother of the groom, so just [laughs] wondering what you would suggest.

Gabby Rello Duffy: I always say the mother of the groom should talk to the mother of the bride, first and foremost, and say, "Have you picked out your dress? What are you wearing?" Depending on your relationship with the bride, if you guys are close, I would ask her, "Do you have a color you'd want me to wear? Do you want me to match the wedding party? Is there something you have in mind?"

It can be a really fun experience to invite her to come shopping with you. It can be a really great bonding experience. She can weigh in if there's something she is or isn't looking for. There used to be the old saying of, "The mother of the groom has two rules, to shut up and wear beige." That is not the case anymore. My mom famously wore hot pink to my brother's wedding, and I don't think my sister-in-law super cared, but moms, this is their moment.

It's an important day for you. Your child is getting married, and you should feel great on the wedding day too. Like any other guest, you just want to be keeping with the formality of the day, keeping with the color palette that the couple wants. I would suggest talking to the mother of the bride, talking to the bride herself, talking to your son, but you should choose something that you love.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Gabby Rello Duffy, senior editorial director of Brides. We're discussing the dos and don'ts of wedding guest fashion. One of our producers just attended a wedding that was-- Brooklyn chic was the dress code.

Gabby Rello Duffy: It's a tough one. It's obviously very aesthetically based on the location. You probably aren't going to have a Brooklyn chic wedding everywhere. When we think of this on our side, we think of monochromatic suits and fun colors, so not black, bringing something a little bit different to the table. Long dresses, but styled in different ways. Maybe things with feathers or ruffles, or adding the ever-popular neck scarf. These are everywhere this year. Just emphasizing your personality, young, youthful, cool, but still formal.

Alison Stewart: I see cowboy cocktail as one of the dress codes. Before this week, I wouldn't have understood it, but then Beyoncé went on tour, and now I get it.

Gabby Rello Duffy: I know. Cowboy cocktail is a big one right now, and it is-- Cowboy Carter is really driving this one. It's happening a lot more for pre- and post-wedding events than the wedding itself, but I think we'll probably see it popping up more. Thinking about denim, leather, suede, wearing cowboy boots, mixing these elements with other attire that you already have. Maybe pairing a cute cocktail dress with a fun cowboy hat, something like that.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Sig in Manhattan. Hey, Sig. Thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Sig: Thank you. Maybe you addressed the issue, but I think that black-tie optional is simply a silly euphemism to say, "American male, this party would've been requiring black tie a generation ago, but since so many American males simply hate to wear it and or don't have it and don't want it write it, you may come in cocktail or at least something that we hope includes a tie."

[laughter]

Sig: That's my short comment. I don't like blue jeans, butt too small. I just think it's an overreaction that started after World War II, with more democracy in money and in clothing. By contrast, if you look at the streets of New York, the pictures of the 1930s, a lot of those guys are quite well-dressed in modern terms, and you know they're not all millionaires.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much for calling in. What were you going to say, Gabby?

Gabby Rello Duffy: Black-tie optional, I think, is the most confusing dress code. I think it is the one that guests are really shocked by. I actually agree with the mindset of not necessarily that men just don't want to wear tuxedos, but I think that you should probably just pick one or the other. You can't really have it both ways, and you want to make it less confusing for your guests so they actually arrive in what you're hoping they arrive in.

Alison Stewart: For couples getting married, what are some tips for determining the dress code, the way you want people to look for your wedding, so they can follow what you want?

Gabby Rello Duffy: I think, first and foremost, you have to set the direction. You have to decide, do we want an ultra-formal wedding? By the way, you can plan a black-tie wedding that's not incredibly formal. I just saw a black-tie wedding where the couple served cheeseburgers and French fries. There's a way to mix and match these formalities. Think about what you want the photos to look like, what you want guests to feel like when they're in the wedding. If you want everyone to feel laid back and relaxed, a more casual dress code is going to be the right choice.

You want this to be a super formal event, or you want to serve that four-course dinner, and you really want to do the whole Pomp and Circumstance, go black-tie. Once you have determined what you want the wedding to feel like, iterate that out for your guests through a mood board, especially if you're choosing something that is a little outside of the norm for guests. Cowboy cocktail is the perfect example.

I would put together a quick Pinterest board. I would even pull some fashion examples from online retailers to show people what they could potentially buy. Color palette swatches if you want a specific color palette. Put all of this on your wedding website so that guests can easily find it and refer back to it.

Alison Stewart: Tracy, you get the last word.

Tracy: My husband and I got married. We had our reception in 2001 at Eleven Madison Park, and my Aunt Lois showed up in boat shoes, a wraparound skirt, and an L.L. Bean polo shirt. I could have cared less because that was the last time that I saw her alive. I really don't think it matters. Just take the pictures, hug the people, and who cares if they're in boat shoes and a wraparound skirt.

Alison Stewart: Tracy, thanks for the call. My guest has been Gabby Rello Duffy from Brides. She's the senior editorial director. Thanks, Gabby.

Gabby Rello Duffy: Thank you so much for having me.