Title: An Exploration of Single Life

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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in SoHo. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful that you are here. On today's show, this Valentine's Day, we'll talk about dates, not the kind you find in OkCupid. A new cookbook called Hot Date celebrates the versatility of the date and offers ideas on how to cook with the chewy fruit at home and it dives into its ancient history. Saturday Night Live turns 50 this year and is celebrating all throughout the weekend. We'll look back at some of the best sketches of all time and we want you to call in with your favorites. Plus, we'll continue our big-picture series with the composer behind The Brutalist Score. That's the plan, so let's get this started with Living Single.

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Alison: Today is Valentine's Day and while many people are cozying up to their significant others, there are those who are living life in the single lane. A new book titled Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms says whether you end up being single for a day or a lifetime or aren't even single at all, we all deserve to be liberated from toxic and deeply embedded attitudes towards our relationship status and what that does or doesn't mean about who we are and what our value is.

Author Nicola Slawson wrote the book that acts as a guide for non-partnered individuals while providing a candid reflection on a single life. Through personal narratives and conversations with others who are not partnered, Nicola talks about navigating friendships as people get married, managing finances with one person's income, and motherhood. Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms is on shelves now in the US. Author, journalist, and creator of The Single Supplement newsletter, Nicola Slawson joins me now. Hi, Nicola.

Nicola Slawson: Hi. Lovely to be on your show. Thanks so much for having me.

Alison: Thank you. Listeners, are you single either by choice or circumstance? What do you enjoy about not being in a relationship? Maybe there are times you wish you were dating someone. If so, why or why not? If you are single and you have special plans for today, give us a call. Our number is 212-433-9692, that's 212-433-WNYC, or you can hit us up on social media at All Of It WNYC. In your books, you talk about acknowledging and celebrating the 10th anniversary of you being single. When did you realize that you wanted to be single by choice?

Nicola: I'd actually just come out of a period of basically back-to-back heartbreaks. For a long time, I'd been obsessed with the idea of getting a boyfriend when I was a teenager. Then I got into my 20s and had a series of relationships that all ended disastrously. It just got to the point where I was like, "I need a bit of time on my own to learn to stand on my own two feet and figure out why I keep choosing the wrong man." I did some reflection, and I also watched this documentary called 35 and Single. The woman was a lot older than me, but she had a similar experience of going back-to-back relationships.

She realized that, actually, she was being a commitment phobe because she wasn't ready for a relationship. It was a little bit of a light bulb moment for me because I was like, "Oh, actually, that rings a bell for me." I decided to take myself off the dating market for a little bit. Then what became a temporary measure quickly became less temporary and the years rolled by. I have had flings and situationships and things, but I haven't called anyone my boyfriend since-- I think it was 2013. It's quite a long [chuckles] time now. After a while, I realized that actually some of the best times of my life had happened while I was single, and so I stopped feeling shame about it.

Alison: You sent your very first newsletter, The Single Supplement, when you were about 35 years old. It began with the line, "It's my 35th birthday today, and I have woken up alone." Why did you want to tell us that?

Nicola: I think that a lot of people would have read that line and felt maybe pity for me or embarrassment that I was even admitting it. Actually, on my 31st birthday, I was absolutely gutted to be single and wake up alone on my birthday. By the time I hit 35, I felt absolutely fine about it. I had so much going on in my life with my career and my friends and doing lots of fun things. I just didn't feel like I had space, to be honest, the headspace even to have a relationship at that stage. That's why I started the newsletter like that.

Obviously, hopefully, I thought it might resonate with other people who are also waking up alone, maybe on their birthday, because birthdays, Christmas, other religious holidays, Valentine's as well, they can be times when you feel a bit more single than usual because everything around you seems to be focused on couples or romantic love. I wrote that in the hope that it might resonate with some of the new readers of the newsletter.

Alison: You have a Facebook group that has thousands of people, which is so interesting. How has the community you've created among singles evolved since that first newsletter?

Nicola: I started the newsletter in-- I think it was September. No, it was October because my birthday's in October. October 2019. Obviously, about less than six months later, the pandemic hit. Just before that, I'd started a Facebook group just to connect readers of the newsletter, because I'm really interested in community and nurturing community and nurturing new friendships. That's just what I'm like, anyway, in real life. Also, it's something I've written about quite a lot in journalism about social isolation.

Obviously, if you're living alone or if you're single, you're more susceptible to that. I wanted to create something where people could just chat and maybe even find new friends. Then the pandemic started, and it became even more important. Because of the pandemic, I think word got out, and I just had thousands of people joining. Some of them have gone on to make really good friends in the group. Some of them only chat online. There's a group in London who meet up regularly to go to the theatre together. It's amazing.

There's also lots of virtual friendships because there's people from literally all over the world in the group. It's amazing, because there's nothing worse than feeling like if all your friends are in relationships or married, and you're the only single one, you can feel a little bit like a freak of nature. I think it really helps to just be with other people, even if it's online, where you just feel less alone, and you feel like they just get me, so [chuckles] I don't have to really explain myself or they just understand. I think that's a really powerful thing.

Alison: Can you give me an example of something that you found fascinating from the perspectives of the people that you met in this community that you've developed online?

Nicola: Oh, that's a really good question. There's people from all walks of life. I found it really interesting that there's a lot of people who are single by choice and they never want to find a partner. Whereas I am open to romantic love in the future, I'm happy and comfortable in the moment now, but I do see that in my future. There are people, the researcher Bella DePaulo calls them single at heart, and they just know that they are happy on their own. They don't want to be with anyone else.

They just feel like that's them living their best life. A lot of people in their life will be like, "You'll change your mind," or "You're just kidding yourself." They know for sure that they feel really comfortable and confident on their own. There's some people in the community that are very much like that. Actually, they're great for helping some of the younger ones feel a bit better about being single as well, so it's nice.

Alison: We're talking about being single this Valentine's Day with journalist and creator of The Single Supplement newsletter, Nicola Slawson, whose new book is titled Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms. Listeners, are you single either by choice or circumstance? What do you enjoy about not being in a relationship? Maybe you are thinking, "I'd really like to date somebody." 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. If you're single and you have special plans for today, give us a call and tell us what they are. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Let's talk to Reggie from Brooklyn. Hi, Reggie. You're on the air.

Reggie: Hi. Thank you so much. I find this topic very interesting. I'm a gay man in my 50s. I really thought I would have been in a relationship 25, 30 years ago. When I turned 35 and that had not happened, I had to sit down and say, "Maybe there's not a lid for every pot." I just realized that my friends are great, I can travel, I have all these things that I love to do. I'm like the author in that I still see love in my future and I've had a long-term relationship, but it is nice to be able to create whatever rules you want with someone you're dating at the time.

For example, I dated someone recently. It didn't work out, but the thing that we really love to do is cuddle, and so we still get together probably once a week. We watch a movie and we cuddle. It's very clear that this is what we do and we love each other in that way and it's not more. I think being single, if you're open-minded, it lets you create whatever you want it to be.

Alison: Reggie, thank you so much for calling in. Nicola, in the book, you highlight a moment at a yoga retreat when the mother of a 20-something woman who was feeling bad about her daughter being single asked you for advice. It sounded like the mom had issues with her child being single more than the [chuckles] child herself. How do you navigate interactions with people in your life who assume that maybe you feel bad about single or they feel bad about having someone in their life who's single?

Nicola: [chuckles] That is quite common, actually. I think even relatives of mine, even my parents, they would just love to see me have a big white wedding and just get married so they could just feel like, "Oh, she's okay." [chuckles] I think that that's part of their generation. It was just seen as really important to find someone and get married. I do understand, but at the same time, it can get frustrating when you're at a family event and you get this, "Oh, the clock's ticking, haven't you found someone yet?" You get these kind of attitudes.

Some of the people that I interviewed for the book, they've experienced that, and some of them, it was quite painful for them because they felt like their family members weren't really seeing who they were and weren't accepting what they were saying or just were judging them. I did interview a writer called Tahmina Begum. She said that she's struggling with this at the moment, but that she felt like it is her responsibility to help bridge the gap with older generations.

She tries to explain, instead of being defensive, she just, with love, tries to explain what the situation is at the moment for her. She's dating and she's finding it really difficult because online dating is so hard at the moment. She just explains it to them. I thought that was really beautiful as well. You don't have to be necessarily defensive. You can try and help other people to understand when they just haven't experienced it themselves.

Alison: You've written about your decision to become a mother where the father is your gay best friend. What led you to decide to have a child?

Nicola: I've always wanted to be a mom. That was probably the only thing about being single that I didn't like. It was going to make it very difficult to become a mom. I considered dating to find someone, but this was during the pandemic, so that made it difficult when I realized I needed to take action because I'd turned 35 just before the pandemic. I was turning 36. Obviously, you're told that as a woman that your fertility is going to drop off a cliff at 35, so I suddenly felt this panic. I just felt it was too much pressure on a relationship.

It just felt so awkward to try and bring up, "Do you want kids?" Because I've also got friends who've ended up with people and then they've later found out they actually don't want to be parents. Then I was looking into the solo motherhood with a sperm donor. I know lots of people are doing that really successfully, but it's very costly. I would have had to save up a lot of money, which would have also eaten into my fertility years. Plus, I'm a daddy's girl and I just love the idea of my baby having a daddy, to be honest.

I'd met a couple, a lesbian couple, a number of years before, and they were platonically co-parenting with their friend who was a gay man. They actually asked him to be a donor and he said, "Actually, I want to be a dad." I just thought it was such a beautiful story. These children so loved, so wanted by not just the parents, but also all of the grandparents. I kept the idea on the back burner. Then during the pandemic, I met Tom and we just hit it off straight away.

One of the first things we bonded over was the fact that all our friends have kids and so aren't available to hang out as much as we would have liked. After a while, I realized he'd make a really good dad. He's a single gay guy. He was looking into solo fostering or adoption. Eventually, I worked up the courage to ask him, and now we have a beautiful 10-month-old baby girl. [chuckles]

Alison: How was the experience navigating pregnancy in the healthcare system as someone who identifies as single?

Nicola: That was really interesting, actually, because we had an early scare. I ended up at the emergency room and blurted out to the doctor our situation because he asked who Tom was. [chuckles] Afterwards, Tom was like, "Sometimes we don't have to explain. We're partners in this. We can just call each other a partner." When I registered that I was pregnant with the maternity services, we went to meet the community midwife and we explained to her, and she just was so supportive and so great.

Then we went to every appointment together because he was just as invested as me, of course, and it was on the note, so we didn't have to explain to anyone else. When I gave birth, we actually weren't sure if those midwives would know. Then afterwards, one of them asked how long we'd been friends for. I just felt really emotional because I was like, "You know?" She was like, "Yes, we know." I'd written an article for The Guardian and they read it while they were there while I was trying to feed the newborn baby. [chuckles] I had the baby at home. I had a home birth, so it was really beautiful.

Alison: We're talking to Nicola Slawson. She has written a book called Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms. We're talking about being single on this Valentine's Day. We'll get to your calls and more with Nicola after the break. This is All Of It.

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Alison: You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Nicola Slawson. She wrote a book called Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms. We're talking about it on Valentine's Day. Let's take a couple calls. Rosalyn is calling in from Hoboken. Hi, Rosalyn. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Rosalyn: Hey, thanks for having me. I ended an engagement three months ago. I just moved into my own place last week. Even though it's been a really, really challenging last few months, I know that it was definitely the right choice for me. I feel really good about it, and I'm excited to spend this Valentine's Day single by choice.

Alison: You sound good about it.

Rosalyn: Yes, [chuckles] I'm excited. I'm excited. It's been hard, but when you feel it in your bones, you know what's right for you, you're ready to live on your own terms, and here I am.

Alison: Have a great day. Let's talk to Nancy from Manhattan. Hi, Nancy. You're on the air.

Nancy: Hi. I'm going to second that. I want to celebrate. I've been single for a long time, dating and in and out of relationships, but love my independence. I'd like to say, I'm not alone. I'm on my own. That's how we should look at it. The biggest thing is we've got to make society recognize, we shouldn't be pitied, we should be enjoyed and invited and included. It's fun. It's just fun.

Alison: [chuckles] Thanks, Nancy. Let's talk to Damani from Brooklyn. Hi. Thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Damani: Hi. Thanks for having me. I wanted to say happy Valentine's Day to everybody. I love the topic of this book. I've been single for quite some time. On Valentine's Day, when I don't have a partner, I like to spread a little extra love on myself. I will either take myself to dinner, a fancy dinner, or have a dessert that I don't normally have or do something kind to myself. Maybe a massage, maybe a spa day. I take the time. I celebrate with everybody else, even though I don't have a partner. I'm on my own and I'm loving it.

Alison: All right. Thanks for calling in. Nicola, did you want to respond to any of our callers?

Nicola: Oh, I'm just so happy for them. I think the first one, she just felt like that wasn't right for her. It's really tough, especially when you break up with someone. That's why I'm really passionate about breaking the stigma around being single because I've seen people stay in relationships because they think being single is the very worst thing that can happen to somebody, and they've stayed in relationships that they're unhappy in. I think it's such an empowering thing to do to actually choose yourself. I'd like to congratulate [chuckles] that listener.

Alison: Listeners, are you single, either by choice or by circumstance? What do you enjoy about not being in a relationship? Are there times when you wish you were dating someone? Our number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. If you're single and you have special plans for today, tell us what they are. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Nicola, you spoke to older women who are single and some mentioned how much life they have yet to live. You included a woman named Jax Hill-Wilson, who's in her late 60s, and she's been single off and on since 2002. What's her story?

Nicola: That was for an article I did for Positive News. I included it in the book because I just thought it was such a great thing that she said, which was that she felt like she had at least 30 years left of life. She needed to make the most of them and not sit around, wallowing about being on her own. That's the philosophy of the book as well. It's about not waiting for your life to start and not waiting to have a partner in order to do all the things that you want to do.

A partner might come along, but you shouldn't put your life on hold. You shouldn't feel like you're in a waiting room. That's really why I included that because I felt like she really illustrated that. Also, just because she was older as well, and she just didn't think her life was over. She still wanted to squeeze as much life as possible out of the years that she had left. I thought that was really inspiring.

Alison: In your research, did you find any cultural differences with how singlehood is viewed?

Nicola: Yes, actually, I mentioned Tahmina earlier. She's Muslim, and so there's a lot more pressure on her to find somebody. She felt like a lot of people from her background, if you're single past the age of 30, then alarm bells are going with the family members because it's just not as accepted. It's more accepted for me than for her, but she still felt the same way that I felt about being single. There's still a lot of similarities. Then there were also other people find it more difficult for different reasons, and there's a chapter in the book called "Not all single people are created equal."

Also, I interviewed somebody from India who started the very first single studies course at university. She grew up in a community where the leaders of her religion had chosen to be single because they felt like that was the more spiritual way to live. They tried to encourage more community living and more of living in a village, looking after each other kind of thing. When it was time for her to try and find a husband, she realized that, actually, she didn't want that, and her parents accepted it that they're actually fine about that. Then she dedicated herself to studying single people and has now launched this course, which I thought was really interesting.

Alison: Let's talk about navigating milestones. You may see that so many of your peers are getting married. What advice would you give to someone struggling with that left-behind feeling when it comes to milestones?

Nicola: That's a really familiar feeling for me. You see your friends, they might get engaged and move in together. Some of them move out into the suburbs if they were living in the city, get a dog, get married. You find yourself at their wedding, and you might be the only single person there. It's really difficult. I just think that people should be kind to themselves because it's okay to feel low in those moments. You can't feel positive about being single every day. It's just not possible.

I think it's okay to just look after yourself and also make sure you maybe spend some time with some other single friends or make a few new friends, that you've got some people whose lives look a bit different that you can hang out with and feel less alone. Also, I think it's about being honest with your friends and explaining that you have this feeling. Not in a negative way, you don't want them to be married, but just so they understand a little bit more.

Some of them, they might want to spend time away from their husbands to go on a holiday and things like that. Sometimes we make assumptions, we assume that they just want to spend time with their husbands or their married friends when actually they would love to hang out with you and just have a relaxing time with their friend that they've known for years. It's about being kind to yourself, I think, and not beating yourself up.

Alison: Let's talk to Deborah who is calling in from Westchester. Hi, Deborah. Thank you so much for calling in. You're on the air.

Deborah: Thank you. I'm calling because I'm finding myself single in a different situation. I was happily married for 52 years and my husband passed away about a year and a half ago, and it's a whole new world that I never signed up for. I'm very lucky to have wonderful friends. I have not had the experience that some older women have had where married friends desert someone who's widowed or divorced. It's just not the same when you don't have your person.

Alison: It's very true. Thank you so much for calling and sharing your story. You talk about that in the book, that not all singledom is the same.

Nicola: No, yes. I also spoke to people who'd lost their husbands as well, and that was a really different perspective. I think it's really important to highlight that as well because not all single people are single by choice. I really wanted to make sure that the book reflected that as well, and that even if it's not by choice, you can still find happiness and you can still find joy. That's why I included a few interviews with people who are single and not by choice about the ways that they still try to find some kind of happiness and joy. It's great that the caller has lots of really good friends.

Alison: I know we've only got you for a minute more, so I want to ask the final question. How do you fight the urge to rekindle things with your ex?

Nicola: [chuckles] That's such a good question. I've been in that situation when I realized my ex was moving on, and I suddenly thought, "Oh no, I don't like--" I think that's just a natural thing where you think, "No, surely, maybe I've made a mistake." I think you just need to remind yourself of the reason that you broke up in the first place, and it was probably for a reason. Most people don't get back together and it's successful. It does happen, of course, but for the most reason, you broke up for a reason.

Alison: My guest has been Nicola Slawson. Her new book is titled Single: Living a Complete Life on Your Own Terms. Thank you so much for joining us.

Alison: Oh, thank you for having me.