Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here, and I'm grateful for two other things. One, the end of the heat wave. Two, happy last day of school. Speaking of schools, on today's show, we'll hear about the play Trophy Boys, about boys at a prep school getting ready for debate. In this play, the actors are non-binary and female actors. It was a huge hit in Australia and has now made its way to the Manhattan Theatre Club. Emmanuelle Mattana and Louisa Jacobson will be our guests.

We'll also hear from singer-songwriter Madison McFerrin. She'll join us for a listening party for her latest album, SCORPIO. We'll learn about the work of artist Beauford Delaney, whom James Baldwin says was "the first living, walking proof that a Black man could be an artist." That's the plan, so let's get this started with the new series, Adults.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: You and Me]

Alison Stewart: A new comedy series captures that awkward, hilarious, and often chaotic stretch of early adulthood when everything feels really urgent and everyone seems to know how to do stuff, but they don't really. It's time to figure things out. It's called Adults. It follows a group of friends in their early 20s, who are sharing a friend's childhood home in Queens, along with their anxieties, meals, and sometimes even occasional toothbrush.

The show introduces us to Samir, whose parents left him a house for him and his friends to live in, but he's struggling to find a career. Billie, who's unsure if she peaked in high school. Anton, who's a nice person but who some might call a friend slut. Issa, played by our next guest, Amita Rao, who's determined to be the life of the party and girlfriend to her chill, pansexual boyfriend, Paul Baker, the group's newest roomie.

A Rolling Stone review called Adults a cringe comedy for the next generation, and says the chemistry among the leads and the sense of extreme, detailed intimacy the writers give the characters make it all work. Joining us now to discuss, the showrunner, Stefani Robinson, who's also known for her work as an executive producer and writer on Atlanta and What We Do in the Shadows, as well as the film Chevalier. Stefani, nice to meet you.

Stefani Robinson: So nice to meet you. Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: Also, joining us is actor and comedian Amita Rao, who plays Issa. You may know her from Deli Boys, as well as her comedy group Gag Reflex. Hey, Amita.

Amita Rao: Thank you for having me. Hi.

Alison Stewart: Hi. Stefani, you got to see the pilot of the series before signing on. What were you looking for in that script that you made, you think, "Yes, I'll do this"?

Stefani Robinson: It's a good question because I don't feel like I'm ever really looking for anything. I think when I'm approaching a new series or, in this case, the pilot had been shot, the script had been written, and there was a good chance that the show was going to go, I think, for me, more than anything was just responding to the material that was there as a potential viewer.

I didn't actually read the pilot first. I watched the pilot first. It was hilarious and so funny. This cast felt so insular, I think, in the right ways. There was a cozy feeling to it that I think I had been missing for a long time. Ultimately, aside from the brilliance of the script, it was really the cast for me that drew me in. I really couldn't get them and that chemistry out of my head.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting that you say "cozy." What do you mean when you say "cozy"?

Stefani Robinson: I can talk more about the process of how we approach, I think, breaking the season. I think when I say "cozy," I mean it's not demanding in terms of a high concept, or we're not necessarily trying to preach to an audience about a topic or a viewpoint or anything like that. I think the goal of the show is really, can this group of friends feel like you're friends? Can you feel like the sixth roommate in this house? That connection being the thing that draws an audience in and feels like it's personal, and I guess cozy being an extrapolation of that and meaning that this made-up friend group is a real friend group to me and an escape that I can tap into when I need to. It's the best ensemble television, personally.

Alison Stewart: Amita, you're in comedy troupes. You read comedy. You see comedy. What did you think when you saw the script, and what did you think about the comedy in the script?

Amita Rao: Yes, I had read so many scripts up to that point that I felt like had so misjudged the comedy of my age group and used language that just felt so foreign. It was like the first script I had read where I was like, "Oh, this is so emblematic of the people I interact with and my friends and our sensibility." When I read the script, I was just absolutely taken with it. I couldn't believe I got to audition for something that I thought was so funny, and also that I felt like I could actually contribute to with my own sensibility and make funnier. I was like, "Oh, my God." I remember in my first audition, I was like, "By the way, to the writers, this is so good. I would be honored to work with you in any capacity."

Alison Stewart: That's so interesting. Well, for example, and you have to name names, but something that a 40 or 50-year-old would write for a 20-something versus the way it was said in these particular scripts.

Amita Rao: It's hard for me to recall a specific joke as much as I feel like Ben and Rebecca have so much love for Gen Z. There is so much lack of self-awareness but played with the highest degree of love. Whereas you read so many scripts where it's a Gen Z girl going to the coffee shop and using a Latin accent sometimes. It's not played with the same degree of love. It's all joke, which can sometimes also make-- If there's no love underneath, I do feel like the joke can become tired so fast.

Alison Stewart: Stefani, each generation has a show that speaks to them. You had Friends, How I Met Your Mother, Girls. You think about being in your 20s, it's different than it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, even five years ago, when you really think about it. What's unique to this experience of people who are living through their 20s now that you wanted to capture in the show?

Stefani Robinson: I actually would push back a little bit on that, in that the thing that we discovered within this process like on the one hand when we first were approaching breaking the season, I think our expectation was that we had the responsibility to speak about what being in your 20s means right now. That was difficult or potentially challenging to speak to the moment.

I think what we found when the writers' room was relating our experiences is that so much of this is so universal really. I think the packaging is slightly different, but I think a lot of the angst, a lot of the confusion, a lot of the stress, a lot of the feeling like-- Samir mentioned some version of this in the pilot that I'm going to paraphrase, but I thought that I would arrive into adulthood being welcomed, but it just feels like everyone is annoyed that I'm here.

I think that's a really universal experience for so many people who have gotten through their 20s and can look back at that experience, which is just like, you're really just trying to figure out. I think the core of that is a universal experience. At the same time, I think Issa with the AirTag, for instance. I think that is a more current way that, Amita, you can tell me. I'm in my 30s, so I can't speak as much authority as you can.

I think this way that group of friends interact with each other through technology and the ways in which I think that they relate to each other do feel slightly different for this time. I think that there are little flourishes throughout all of these episodes that feel like they're more grounded in what feels more honest to a friend group today. I think speaking to what Amita had been saying about just the love or the heart of it, that was the crux of how we approached all of these characters with love, and also knowing that this experience is so universal across the decades, really.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. It's like, I'll push back on you a little bit, is that, specifically, we're talking about technology. I can't imagine a camera being around in my 20s. My camera wasn't around in my 20s, taking videos. The feeling is universal. The feeling of being 20-something is something that we can all remember or perhaps experience. What do you think, Amita?

Amita Rao: I completely agree. I think the 20s is the second puberty. I think it's the second time you're coming into self. It's middle school. You're dealing with the war of coming into your body along with coming into your identity. I do feel like so many parts of your identity are filled in by what your parents take care of. Whereas in your 20s, all of that is removed. You have to come into your identity again with the people around you. It does feel like puberty. Also, your body does change in your 20s as well.

Alison Stewart: What do you both think makes New York a great background for a show like this? Stefani, I'll let you go first.

Stefani Robinson: Yes, it's a really good question. If I think about this show in particular and speaking only for this show, I think the idea of New York representing to, potentially, this generation and this group of friends in particular, like freedom in adulthood, is just true to that friend group. I think the funny thing about this show in particular is that they're not living in Manhattan. They're not living in the thick of it all. It's not Sex and the City. It's not Friends. It's not glamorous. It's not splashy. They're living in a somewhat suburban environment.

There's a within and without experience that they're adjacent to. I think the thrill of the concept of what adulthood means to them, but at the same time, they're not having that experience. I think that metaphorically being representative of their angst and struggle and search for their own identities is really important in how we crafted this show in particular and how Ben and Rebecca rooted these characters in this show and in this dynamic.

Alison Stewart: Amita, what do you think about New York as a backdrop to the show?

Amita Rao: Yes, I feel like the liminal nature of their surroundings and how not adult they are definitely helps situate them in their individual conflicts and increase-- I think New York is a pressure cooker of identity. You are forced to reckon with who you are in a very intense way when you're in the city. You feel everyone around you feeling that as well. I think not feeling yourself is part of that journey. I think all these characters feel that so intensely. It's just heightened by being in New York in a way that I think is helpful for the story.

Alison Stewart: A new show follows a group of 20-somethings, figuring out life in New York City. Showrunner Stefani Robinson and actor Amita Rao, who stars as Issa, are here to discuss Adults, which is streaming on Hulu. I should say that. I want to talk about something in the episode with you. It opens up. You're on the subway train with your friends. There's a guy who's masturbating in the corner. I don't know a woman who hasn't seen that on the subway.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: The group is grossed out by it, but your character, Issa, responds by basically doing the same. Could you walk us through that process, and what does that tell us about her initially?

Amita Rao: Yes, this was actually the scene that made me want to play the character because, initially, I was auditioning for Billie and Issa. I was like, "Oh, my God, this is so--"

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Amita Rao: Yes, and I was like, "Oh, my God, this is so insane and could go so badly," but that's what was so exciting about it. Issa is someone who feels her emotions real-time and acts on them, which is very fun to play, because I feel my emotions at a distance and watch it ripple. Issa is galvanized by her emotions in the moment. She has a lot of righteousness if misplaced. She sees this injustice and she takes it upon herself. Her anger thrusts her towards the only action she can think of in that moment, which is putting him through the same misery that she went through, which is watching someone masturbate unconsensually, and then she goes for it in a very, very aggressive way. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: It's funny. I remember that happening to me in my 20s. I can remember just looking at the guy. I was like, "Oh, put that thing away."

Amita Rao: Which part happened to you? You masturbated to that?

Alison Stewart: No, no, no, no, no, I watched the person do that and told him to put it away. [chuckles]

Amita Rao: It's so shocking when it happens. It's like, "Yes."

Alison Stewart: Stefani, when you were thinking about the tone for the show, because what Amita described is a really wild scene, what did you want the tone for the show to be?

Stefani Robinson: I think that we wanted the tone to just be hard comedy.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Stefani Robinson: That was the tone of the show is just to be a bit confrontational about what these kids are going through. I think that moment in particular, it happens so early in the pilot for a reason, because it sets the table for how we want the audience to experience the show. I think that was it, like Ben and Rebecca were so clear about. They wanted to tackle what it was like growing up in your 20s. That had been done in so many different ways before. I think their slant on it was that they wanted it to be a bit unflinching, a bit gross at times, a bit unpolished, and I think sometimes downright nasty, wouldn't you say, Amita?

Amita Rao: Yes, I say with a big smile. Yes.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Issa's so interesting because she has a lot of confidence in herself.

Amita Rao: Yes.

Alison Stewart: She likes taking on responsibilities even if others haven't really taken on some of those responsibilities. Where does this confidence come from?

Amita Rao: I used a bunch of frames of reference as well as earlier iterations of myself for Issa. I feel like the root of her confidence is I do think she was very well-loved by her parents. I think she has this well of love inside of her because you don't get that without that. I do think the root of it is that love. That's also why she has so much love to give.

I think also, she just hasn't experienced the logistical friction, or even maybe a lot of the emotional friction of life that would burden someone with a lack of confidence or insecurity or anxiety. For most of us, we want people to perceive us as interesting or special or something great. With Issa, she is waiting for everyone to realize she's already those things, and because she's never really experienced anything to prove otherwise to her.

Alison Stewart: Well, let's listen to a clip from Adults to show people what we're talking about. In this scene from Episode 2, Samir, Issa, Paul Baker, and Anton, they go with Billie to the hospital for a colonoscopy. Well, Billie chooses someone else as a proxy rather than Issa. Let's listen. This is from Adults.

Doctor: We inspect the lining of the colon.

Samir: Okay, got it. You know she's allergic to sesame?

Issa: What is he even saying?

Anton: Can I use your card then?

Issa: I feel like I should be taking notes. Samir's not even--

Paul Baker: Hey, Iss.

Anton: Hi.

Issa: Finally, you're here.

Paul Baker: Hi, baby, hi. I'm so sorry I'm late. The F Train was a mess. How's it going?

Issa: Truly? Horrible.

Paul Baker: Really?

Issa: Yes, Billie didn't pick me as her proxy, even though I am literally the nexus of this friend group.

Paul Baker: Totally, yes. I meant more like, how's Billie doing?

Issa: Oh, I mean, she's touch and go.

Paul Baker: What?

Issa: What? I don't know. I don't know what that means. I'm just trying to tell you, I feel unseen, Paul Baker.

Paul Baker: Okay, I see you.

Issa: Do you?

Paul Baker: I see you. I see you.

Samir: Hey, so she's not up yet, but I talked to the doctor, and she's going to be fine.

Paul Baker: Thank God.

Anton: What was wrong?

Samir: They don't even know what was wrong.

Anton: What?

Samir: I know.

Anton: What do you mean they don't know?

Samir: Yes. I mean, they want her back in two weeks, obviously, for endoscopy. It's like a throat scope thing. Yes, insurance is going to cover the whole thing. Bada-bing, bada-boom, taken care of, managed it. No worries.

Anton: [sighs]

Samir: What?

Anton: No, nothing.

Samir: Nothing?

Anton: I mean, she might not have insurance in two weeks, but--

Issa: She might not have insurance in two weeks, Samir.

Samir: What?

Anton: She's insured through work.

Issa: She's insured through work, Samir, so we have to get this done today. Otherwise, she's going to owe $1 million when she is out of work. [sighs] I'm going to have to deal with this.

Samir: No, no, Issa, you're going to make it worse.

Issa: You're not doing anything.

Samir: Okay. Well, she picked me, Iss. I'm the praxis.

Anton: Proxy.

Samir: Proxy.

Alison Stewart: Yes, Samir. Amita, why is it important for her to be the proxy?

Amita Rao: I think what I just said, Issa's waiting for everyone to realize all of those things about her. I think you believe your friend's perception of you more than anything.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Amita Rao: She's like, "Yes, you have to choose me as a proxy, because that is testament to my value as a friend, as an interesting and special and responsible person." It's like, it's really important for her to be chosen, especially by Billie, who's emblematic of the maturity and most adult of the group. Her opinion and her choices really are representative of maturity overall for Issa. I think not being chosen by her is a huge blow.

Alison Stewart: Stefani, each one of these characters has unique traits, unique flaws as well. How much of the characters' personalities are in part influenced by the actors?

Stefani Robinson: I think a lot of them are. I would say a lot of them are in a great way. Amita, you can probably speak more to this, but I think the relationship that the actors have on set and off of set is really special and really singular, because a lot of what you were seeing on set mirrors what happens in real life. I think that bond that you guys have, Amita, is so genuine. You guys are patient with each other.

You guys are able to point out each other's flaws and weaknesses and then bolster each other up, all within that process, which I'm incredibly impressed with. I think it's an incredibly mature thing for a young group of actors to be able to embrace each other in such a professional but also loving way. I think that dynamic and this ability for you guys to be so close on and off the set, I think that's what audiences are responding to when they are responding to your characters, is that you guys are, first and foremost, incredible comedic performers.

I think that X factor underneath it all is that you guys do care about one another in a really genuine and authentic way. I think that permeates the experience for everybody, and it's really, really special. In that way, I think the characters as characters versus what you guys bring to them, that, to me, really brings them alive and has been the thing that has made this ensemble so special.

Alison Stewart: Amita, you come from improvisation, the Second City in Chicago. What is something that you learned from your time in improvisation that really helps you on Adults?

Amita Rao: I think the core of improv was so, so deeply helpful for an ensemble comedy. As to what Stefani is saying, I do think the X factor is the love underneath. I think improv teaches you how to love your scene partner in a way and really take care of them. The philosophy of improv is, "I am great because you are great, and I can be great because you are great." It's like being able to lift up each other in scenes, and being taught that has given me everything in regards to what I can give to a scene.

Also, in regards to sketch, I feel like in regards to playing out a sketch, it's so important to know your role, and know your role in the rhythm of the scene and what your purpose is to serve the scene. I feel like learning that, too, was very helpful in an ensemble comedy, because we're often in service to other people's storylines and plots. Yes, both of those were helpful, but I think improv truly taught me how to be a good scene partner.

Alison Stewart: Stefani, from your experience working on Atlanta and What We Do in the Shadows, what did you learn from those experiences that has helped you as a showrunner to help your talent thrive on Adults?

Stefani Robinson: Yes, I think that those shows are all so completely different. That's what I've learned, but I think Atlanta is incredibly different from What We Do in the Shadows. What We Do in the Shadows is incredibly different from Adults, and any configuration of how you want to compare those television shows. I think that because they're so different, what I've learned that each show just needs a different-- it has a different set of needs. I don't have children, but I'm sure that's happened to a parent.

I think that the truth of it is that you need to come into a series with almost no expectations, because it's a different ecosystem each time and requires different levels of care, different levels of comedic timing. All of those are ensembles, but they're such completely different ensembles. I think the thing that I've learned is listen to the needs and the wants of each individual television show. Those needs and wants become incredibly clear once you make space to let that actually happen.

Alison Stewart: Amita, I'm going to ask you to tell us about a scene that was a bit hard for you, a bit harder for the cast that they couldn't quite get right but ended up working out.

Amita Rao: Oh, I thought you had been about to tell or describe--

Alison Stewart: No, I want you to tell us about one. We've heard like, "This is a really good cast. Everybody cares about each other," but there must have been a time when it was just like, "This isn't quite working out."

Amita Rao: Oh, of course. There were so many times it wasn't working out. I feel like how many times it wasn't working out was probably most helpful to getting the rhythm of it. I feel like, "What?" The thing I remember most struggling with sometimes, especially when we would do late-night scenes, is sometimes we just wouldn't get the rhythm of the scene right, and we weren't able to get, because there's usually a game in every scene that you're trying to accomplish.

Stefani can speak better to this because I feel like she really had this zoomed-out perspective and was giving us notes to make sure that the game was identifiable and legible. I remember there were multiple scenes. The one that comes most clearly to mind was the coat scene with Anton. You remember, at the end of Episode 3? Yes, and I remember we just weren't injecting it with enough momentum.

Honestly, I feel like that was actually a problem that would pop up with scenes frequently, where it's like it just didn't have the momentum the scene needed to actually go all the way through and get to the emotional height it needed to get to. It's long days on set. I think people's energy can really flag. If you're not pinpoint precision on what kind of needs to be accomplished by the end of the scene, it can just get lost. Stefani, again, really had that zoomed-out perspective, so you might be able to speak to that better.

Alison Stewart: Yes, I was going to ask you about pacing.

Stefani Robinson: Yes, Amita is exactly right. I think that the pacing in scenes, it's all about a rhythm and all about listening to your scene partners. I think with the really long hours and jamming a lot of scenes into different blocks, there are inevitably those times where half of the cast is exhausted based on the schedule that they've had the day or the week prior. Half of the cast isn't because of just how that works out. It's all about calibrating that rhythm and figuring it out. Sometimes it is just like, "Guys, just wake up."

[crosstalk]

Stefani Robinson: "Just wake up. Just pretend if you have to, but find some way to inject yourself with energy and just get through it. Let's jam through it and it's going to be okay." I think, at the end of the day, it's reminding these guys, Amita, it's going to be okay because you're incredible performers. It's just dialing in and focusing. That's not normal. That's part of the process. That's part of any process, really, I would say.

Amita Rao: They're also such tight episodes, 22 minutes, so it's like the scenes really do have to be tight in a rhythmic sense.

Alison Stewart: The name of the show is Adults. It's streaming now on Hulu. My guests have been showrunner Stefani Robinson and actor Amita Rao. Thanks for making time with us today.

Amita Rao: Thanks for having us.

Stefani Robinson: Yes, love this.