[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All of It, I'm Alison Stewart. A new indie film shows a heartfelt and compelling story about a 17 year old girl named Sam who goes on a camping trip to the Catskills with her father and his friend. It's titled Good One. In the film, Sam, played by Lily Colias, finds herself in the midst of a complex and often awkward dynamic between her father and his best friend Matt, who are both dealing with their own midlife crises. Between the two bickering over past mistakes or making empty declarations of plans they have for the future, Sam takes on a bit of a role, a caretaker. She sets up the tent. She cooks for the men. She cleans up after them.

The film beautifully captures the reversal of roles that can happen as children go up, but also the ways adults sometimes fall short in being the caretaker or role model for the young people in their lives. Good One will run at Film at Lincoln Center starting this Friday, August 9, through Thursday, August 15. Writer and director India Johns Donaldson joins me now. Hi, India.

India Johns Donaldson: Hi.

Alison Stewart: Also Lily Colias, who plays Sam, also joins us. Hi, Lily.

Lily Colias: Hello.

Alison Stewart: So, India, you've talked about this being somewhat autobiographical, a personal story, not autobiographical.

India Johns Donaldson: Yes.

Alison Stewart: When did you decide that this was a story you wanted to tell?

India Johns Donaldson: I was living at home with my family during the pandemic, and I have two younger at the time, teenage siblings. And I think I was kind of reflecting on my experience of being a teenager at that time. I hadn't thought prior to that that I would make a coming of age film, but felt inspired looking at them.

Alison Stewart: How did you decide a camping trip would be, would be the good vehicle to tell the story you wanted to tell?

India Johns Donaldson: I grew up hiking and camping with my dad and love those things. We were also thinking about just the challenges of independent filmmaking and I felt like shooting a film outdoors would set us up to be able to achieve a lot in a very short amount of time.

Alison Stewart: Lily, how did you hear about the Good One?

Lily Colias: Actually, one of the teenage siblings of India, Octavia, is one of my good friends.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that's funny.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Love that.

Lily Colias: After two months of India trying to find someone for Sam, she reached out to Octavia and asks on a whim if she knew anyone that she thought would be good for the role, and she blurted my name out.

Alison Stewart: What made you decide after reading it? Thinking, yes, this is something that intrigues me.

Lily Colias: I loved the script so much, and before I had read it, we had grabbed coffee together. We were just talking about art and film, and I loved India's taste and her view of how she wanted to tell her stories. I thought it really aligned with what she was saying. I loved Sam herself, and I thought she was so different from me, and I had so much to learn from her.

Alison Stewart: Tell me a little bit about Sam. If I met Sam walking down the street, what would I think of her, India?

India Johns Donaldson: Gosh, let's see. I can't.

Alison Stewart: Now you're looking at Lily right now.

[laughter]

India Johns Donaldson: Lily's very different than the character.

Lily Colias: [laughs]

India Johns Donaldson: You're much. Well, yes, if I ran the salmon.

Alison Stewart: At a camping store, she's going to buy stuff.

India Johns Donaldson: She's friendly. She's easygoing. She's really easy to be around, but, I think if you got to know her-- which hopefully, you do through the movie- you'd get to see there's some layers and some edge to her.

Lily Colias: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Tell us about what you think of Sam when you think about her.

Lily Colias: It's such an interesting question. I never thought about if I ran into her what it would be like, but I think it would be very just peaceful. She's very reserved in that way where I don't think that she would spark up a conversation with me, but if I got to know her, I would see how funny she is and how quick she is. She's very clever and very quick.

India Johns Donaldson: Lily made her funny. Lily gave her a sense of humor.

Lily Colias: No, that was in the script.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: India, when you're writing a script like this, first of all, how many iterations did you have?

India Johns Donaldson: Gosh, not many, really.

Alison Stewart: Oh, good.

India Johns Donaldson: I think I wrote it intuitively, with a really clear sense of who these people were. Yes, it didn't change dramatically from early drafts.

Alison Stewart: When you're writing, how do you write? Do you write at a certain time every day? Do you go to a space to write? Do you just, 'I have an idea' and write it down on a napkin?

India Johns Donaldson: Very much a morning person, as early as possible.

Alison Stewart: Go write. [laughs]

India Johns Donaldson: Yes. I find I can only write or write anything remotely good or productive for, like, the first couple hours of my day.

Alison Stewart: When Lily put on her director's hat and she talked to you about Sam, what was something that she told you that really helped you feel confident in a choice you made in Sam?

Lily Colias: We had a lot of conversations about how in many of the scenes, there's not much dialogue for Sam, but she would always say, like, 'the camera always caters towards you." I took that, and we had a lot of fun playing around with what that looked like and when she was tuning out because these two men are in an environment that they're not used to, and they are overcompensating for how uncomfortable they are in it. We get to see relatable moments of when you have to just tune out because it's too much and then when you have to say something and step in. That was kind of fun to work with, just the inner workings of her mind and what she was thinking.

Alison Stewart: My guests are India Donaldson as well as actor Lily Colias. We're talking about the film. Good One. It'll be showing at Lincoln Center from Friday, August 9 through Thursday, August 15. Tell us about the two grown-ups in this film.

India Johns Donaldson: Chris, Sam's father, played by the wonderful James Le Gros, is very tightly wound. He very much likes to be in control, doesn't like being out of his element, but he has a really nice relationship with his daughter. He's trying to figure out how to relate to her now that she's entering this new phase of adulthood. Matt, played by the incredible Danny McCarthy, he's going through a divorce. His life is in free fall, and he's really trying to keep it all together. His emotions and his frustrations are really just beneath the surface, but he's an actor and he likes talking. I would say that.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Well, let's listen to a clip from Good One. This is Sam, her dad, and his best friend Matt grabbing lunch before heading off into the woods for a weekend, and you'll hear a little bit of their dynamic. This is from Good One.

Chris: I don't think I've ever seen you eat this much.

Sam: This is a regular amount of food.

Chris: I didn't even know you ate meat.

Matt: Yes, I thought you were a vegetarian.

Sam: I ate meat at lunch.

Chris: Really?

Sam: I've never been a vegetarian, Dad.

Matt: You seem like one, though. Don't you think?

Chris: Yes.

Matt: Just a little bit.

Sam: No.

Chris: A slight?

Sam: No.

Chris: A shading of vegetarianism?

Sam: No.

Chris: No?

Alison Stewart: That explains so much about their character.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: They think that she's a vegetarian. Why do you think they have that thought about Sam?

India Johns Donaldson: Well, for me, they're, like, teasing her. They think of her as being maybe, like, more pious than she is.

Lily Colias: They find her very granola because she has a sense of grounding.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: She's also just a little bit quiet.

Lily Colias: Yes

Alison Stewart: She's just a little bit quiet. How did you think about what to express through her quietness, Lily?

Lily Colias: Even though she's very quiet, she always has something to say. She doesn't want to because I think what's so great about her that I learned so much about her is not everything. Lots of people have a lot to say and nothing to say at all, like sometimes, the two men in the film. Sam just really isn't into that. That's very known to her, and it's not something she chooses to interact with.

Alison Stewart: Yes. When you're writing the silence for Sam, was that, how did you think about deploying it? Because you have to figure out where the silence should be.

India Johns Donaldson: Yes, I knew that we were always going to ground the film in Sam's perspective, even when she's saying the least in every given scene. I was just thinking about listening as just an important way to participate in a conversation and I wanted the film to visually elevate the act of listening. Sam is an incredible listener. I think that's one of her sort of powers. At every stage of the process, we just prioritized Sam's experience of any given moment.

Alison Stewart: The movie opens with Sam and her father preparing to leave for the backpacking trip. Sam is talking to her girlfriend, making sure she has everything. Chris is talking to his second wife. How does this first scene establish these two characters and the dynamic we see between them?

India Johns Donaldson: Well, Sam spends the vast majority of the film in between, having the dynamic between these two men kind of triangulated through her. I wanted to provide just a little window into her, just point towards her personal life, her emotional life that exists beyond her dynamic with these men. Just to show her as she is with her friends, because I think sometimes we teenagers-- at least my memory of being a teenager- you show an honest version of yourself to your friends in a way that you hold back from your parents.

Alison Stewart: The gentleman who plays your father, as you mentioned, James Le Gros, you see him in everything. As soon as you see him, you're like,

That? Oh, my God, he's been in everything." What was something that he did, he helped you with that helped you get into your character in scenes with him? How did he help you?

Lily Colias: He helped me by just who he was as a person. We had a couple of Zooms before we got started shooting. We didn't have a proper rehearsal, I'd say. We shot it in twelve days, knowing that we wanted to build some sort of chemistry. I hopped on a zoom with him, and I instantly just felt so comfortable with him. He really was kind of like a mentor for me throughout this because it was the first lead of anything I had ever done, and I was a baby and still am.

Throughout the days, he and I would just be talking all the time. We always had something to talk about. We are not quiet people, me and James.

[laughter]

Lily Colias: We always found something to talk about and that really helped me throughout the process to just feel so comfortable with him.

India Johns Donaldson: He was great at getting you talking before a scene. I remember there was one moment where he was having a conversation with you, and I was like, "That's great. Let's just keep doing that, and let's record it." He was like, "Yes. Why do you think I'm doing it?"

[laughter]

India Johns Donaldson: Some of that made it into the movie.

Alison Stewart: His best friend Matt is on this trip. He goes, even though his son doesn't want to go. Why do you think his son refuses to come on the trip?

India Johns Donaldson: To punish his dad, in my opinion. His son is frustrated with the ways in which his parents relationship unraveled. He's angry. It's all fresh for him. Yes, I think his dad was really looking forward to this trip, and it's the most powerful way he could make him feel it.

Alison Stewart: Let's actually listen to a clip from Good One. This is where Chris and Matt are in the car on their way to the Catskills, and they're discussing their frustrations with relationships with his wife and his child. This is from Good One.

Chris: Divorce is a lot of work.

Matt: My marriage was working. Divorce was the fun part.

Chris: It's all work and compromise.

Matt: [laughs] Tell me about one time that you've compromised.

Chris: Well, we didn't. That's the problem. April and I didn't compromise. It's why we're divorced.

Matt: Casey does all your compromising for you.

Chris: Some marriages are easier than others.

Matt: I need a Casey.

Chris: You got to figure it out. You got to make the old work with the new.

Matt: You know, I gave her the apartment. I have to do that. She's living in the apartment. His life is basically unchanged because I'm bending over backwards to make sure of it. What the fuck is he so angry about?

Sam: His parents relationship ending?

Matt: Oh, hello.

Chris: Are you eavesdropping on us back there?

Sam: Literally a foot away from you.

Matt: Then why don't you weigh in?

Sam: On what?

Matt: On my dilemma.

Sam: What's your dilemma?

Matt: That everyone's mad at me.

Sam: Sure, it's more complicated than that.

Matt: I don't know.

Chris Yes, I guess.

Sam: I don't know. Maybe you should think about how it's complicated, lke, specifically for Stephanie and Don and then you won't have a dilemma.

Matt: Come on, just fix it.

Sam: I'm just saying, like, think about it from everyone's perspective.

Matt: That's all I do. I sit around and try to figure out what they're thinking.

Sam: Dad, can I drive? I'm carsick.

Chris: You're sick because you're texting.

Sam: Dad.

Alison Stewart: [chuckles] It's so good. She's just sitting in the back seat, like, what are these guys doing?

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: What is she thinking about these guys in the front seat of the car?

Lily Colias: She just can't believe it, but also, she's like, of course, this is the conversation that's being had as we're going into a beautiful forest.

[laughter]

Lily Colias: It's interesting. You see how she can handle that while also she's in this moment, texting her friends and seeing what they're up to. Also just focused on her personal life, so it's one of those moments where she has to say something, but she doesn't want to be fully involved with what's going on. It reached a point.

Alison Stewart: We're talking with writer and director India Donaldson and actor Lilly Colias about their film Good One, which is showing at Lincoln Center. Friday, August 9. It starts, goes through August 15. I'm not going to give too much away about the film, but, Sam tells her dad something, and he kind of blows it off. What were you trying to convey about that moment and her dad's response and the way he responds to just blowing her off?

India Johns Donaldson: Yes. Without spoiling it. I mean, for me, it was really about that moment that I think we all have with our parents at some point where you realize that they are human beings and the disappointment in that, but it's sort of an essential part of a parent-child relationship.

Alison Stewart: This is just-- it bothered me- didn't bother me. I wondered about it the whole movie. Not bothered, wondered about it. She has her period, the whole movie.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Sam has her period, the entire movie. Tell me about that.

India Johns Donaldson: I was just frst of all, yes, it really sucks to be on your period in the woods. I was thinking about just weight, the weight of the backpack and the emotional weight that Sam is carrying throughout the trip. The things that her dad and Matt make her carry and the being on her period is just like another thing on top of that.

Alison Stewart: How about you? How would you think?

Lily Colias: Yeah, it's another thing that's once again, something that's completely disregarded by the men and it's just something that's not a question to her. It's something that she knows she has to deal with alongside making them dinner, helping with the tents, doing all her motherly, parental duties as the daughter.

India Johns Donaldson: She's extremely competent.

Alison Stewart: Matt is not confident in this at all. Poor Matt. Speaking that, there's humor in this film, there's awkwardness, but there's also this sense of humor that runs through it. How did you balance the comedic and then really some dramatic elements in the writing of the film?

India Johns Donaldson: I mean, for me, the sense of the humor that I love the most in film is when it comes with a gut punch that's a real emotional recognition. I was calling this movie a comedy throughout the production process, but I think it starts out as a comedy and ends in a different place. That's my experience of life, maybe.

Alison Stewart: What was it like to shoot in twelve days? What did you like about the process of shooting in such a short period of time?

Lily Colias: I just learned so much. I learned so much about how important it is to have a good director by your side, and especially for a time crunch. India was so intuitive the entire time in moments where if she could see that I was slowly, like, going down, she knew exactly what to say to me. She knew exactly what to do and I was able to keep it so playful even though we shot it in twelve days, it felt like it could have been at least three months, but it was just packed in. Everyone on the crew and everyone on the team was so great that it was the ideal dynamic, in my opinion.

India Johns Donaldson: We had fun.

Lily Colias: We had way too much fun [unintelligible 00:19:21] twelve days.

Alison Stewart: Did you plan on the Catskills because it's where you used to go?

India Johns Donaldson: I actually wrote it for California, and then I knew the Catskills well. I'd been living in New York and knew that area. At a certain point I realized all of my collaborators, the people that I could call on to help me make this movie were in New York, and so it was really that the choice was about the people.

Alison Stewart: All directors have to make choices. That's what director is, they make choices constantly. What's one choice you made you're really glad you have? Got about a minute. Oh, picking Lily.

Lily Colias: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Oh, really? Yes. Say more.

India Johns Donaldson: I could talk forever about this. She makes the character and the movie sing with her performance, and I'm incredibly lucky that we met.

Lily Colias: I'm blushing.

Alison Stewart: She's blushing. The name of the film is the Good One. Speaking with writer and director India Donaldson, actor Lily Colias about the Good One. It is showing at Lincoln Center, Film at Lincoln Center Friday, August 9 through Thursday, August 15. Thanks to both of you for coming into the studio. Congratulations on your film.

Lily Colias& India Johns Donaldson: Thank you so much.

India Johns Donaldson: Yes, thank you.

[00:20:46] [END OF AUDIO]

 

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