Alison Stewart: This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. It's a new month, which means it's time for a new Get Lit with All Of It Bookclub selection. This month, we are reading the acclaimed novel Flashlight by Susan Choi. The story hinges on one mysterious night. A girl named Louisa and her father head out to a beach, but her father can't swim. Later, Louisa is found on the beach alone. Her dad has disappeared.

The book follows the family before and after that fateful night as Louisa and her mother try to figure out what happened. Susan Choi will be joining us on Thursday, December 4th at the New York Public Library, our partners. Tickets are already going very fast, so to get yours now, head to wnyc.org/getlit. That is where you can find the links. To borrow your e-copy, head to wnyc.org/getlit, and happy reading. That's in the future. Let's get this hour started with a conversation about another novel.

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The new book, A Guardian and a Thief is one of this year's most celebrated novels. It's a finalist for the National Book Award and was a finalist for the Kirkus Prize. It's an Oprah Book Club selection. You've probably seen it prominently displayed at an indie bookseller near you. The story is set in the near future in Kolkata, India. Climate change has led to famine. People are willing to do just about anything to feed their families. One of those people is Ma, a middle class woman who has been stealing food from the shelter where she works to feed her baby daughter and aging father.

Ma thinks it's a temporary solution. In just one week, the whole family will fly to join Ma's husband in Ann Arbor, Michigan. They have all their documents in order, but then just a few days before the family is set to fly to America, they wake up to discover that their food stores have been looted and Ma's purse containing their visas is gone. The precious items were taken by a young man named Boomba, who is equally determined to help his family survive the crisis.

As Ma searches for the person who took her visa, she and Boomba end up on a collision course that could have terrible consequences for everyone involved. A Guardian and a Thief is written by Megha Majumdar. Kirkus says, "The electrifying depiction of dignity and morality under siege reveals the horror hidden by the bland term climate change." Megha Majumdar joins me now to discuss. It is nice to meet you. Oh well, nice to meet you in person. That's so nice.

Megha Majumdar: So nice to meet you in person, Alison. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: What was the seed of the idea for this novel?

Megha Majumdar: I was reading about climate change in my hometown, Kolkata, and I began thinking about what hope and love will look like in such a time of crisis. That was where the book began. One interesting thing that happened while I was writing the book is that I became a mother. I had my first child, and that completely changed my perspective on the ferocity of hope and love. I became so drawn to thinking about what will we do when our love becomes vicious in a time of crisis.

Alison Stewart: What were you thinking about when you were writing the novel before you were pregnant, before you were a mother? What were some of the themes that you thought you were going to delve into that had to change?

Megha Majumdar: Initially, it was very much about the journey of a person through this devastated city. It's an interesting day to think about the future of our city. That's really where I was. What will Kolkata look like? What will we do when familiar like a meal with your family become really difficult to obtain?

Alison Stewart: Did you plan to write a climate change novel or was it something else?

Megha Majumdar: It was very much a climate change novel, but that's an interesting way to describe it, Alison. I feel that, ultimately, novels are so deeply about family and love, the people we care about. Yes, this novel's way of entering those themes is through climate change, but love is very much what it is also about.

Alison Stewart: We're going to ask you to read the first page from your book, A Guardian and a Thief.

Megha Majumdar: "Day one, from the storeroom, hidden under the stairs, Ma fetched a cup of rice and a sack of eggs speckled gray like the moon, then cooked, standing before the stove's blue fire, her eye upon the window and it's dusk in which bats swooped and the neem tree shivered and a figure down on the road pedaled a bicycle, whistling as if everything was all right. 'Thief,' thought Ma, 'Who else but a person who had chanced upon fresh vegetables or fruit would wander the city of Kolkata in this ruined year? The heat, a hand clamped upon the mouth, the sun, a pistol against one's head and recall a song?' She watched to see what the thief would do.

He pedaled past, but Ma saw a different reality shimmer into being in which he leaned his bicycle against the wall, climbed the pipes like a toddy tapper, and appeared at her window. In that picture, the thief was a collector of local information, dutiful in his neighborhood eavesdropping, shrewd in following what he heard about the bins of onions and carrots, the sacks of Lentils and rice, the bags of raisins and cashews hidden in the dark fist of the house, stolen by Ma from donations made to the shelter where she worked while the city outside wept for a handful of something to eat."

Alison Stewart: Was that always where you're going to start the novel?

Megha Majumdar: Oh, absolutely not. There are so many pages and so many drafts that I threw away. For a long time, I had a beginning which was very much about the origins of this food shortage that the book talks about. I had a more big picture paragraph about what happened to agriculture, the spread of new pests, drought, floods, all of it. I realized that while that kind of writing is very important, and it's still there later in the book, where I needed to start was with the character who felt essential to me, the character of the mother.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting when you first read it and when I first read it. I didn't read anything about the book. I picked it up and I thought, "Is she talking about a person, or is she talking about a bird stealing, or is she talking about some sort of animal stealing?" It really took me a moment to realize, "Oh, she's talking about a real person."

Megha Majumdar: Yes. The character of the thief came to me quite late in the writing of the book. This was after I had written quite a lot. I realized, here's the thief who is sparking something really important in this book, allowing me to go into the question of, what will you do for the people you love? What will you do when your love forces you to do something immoral and unethical? What will you do to stand behind that love? I realized that I needed to write the character of this thief.

Alison Stewart: I just thought that was interesting because almost anybody could have been the thief, but it turned out to be a person, which is interesting. My guest is Meghan Majumdar. We're talking about her new novel, A Guardian and a Thief. It's about a family who has their important visas stolen from them and about the young man who stole the papers. It is out now. Ma and her family are pretty-- They're middle class, they have a safe and comfortable home, but they find out they're closer to the effects of hunger than they really understood or they anticipated. What illusions did the family have about where they were versus where they were? [chuckles]

Megha Majumdar: That's a fantastic question. One of the things that I really wanted to think about in this book was class. Ma and her family are solidly middle class. They have a comfortable home, as you say. They are not affected by the rains or floods, but they soon realize that most of us, other than the billionaires, and there is a billionaire.

Alison Stewart: There's a billionaire.

Megha Majumdar: There is a billionaire in the book. Most of us other than the billionaires will not be safe when climate change comes for us. We will go to the market and see that the fruits and vegetables we want to buy are not available.

Alison Stewart: Did you do research on the effects of climate change and how it will affect the various rungs of the socioeconomic ladder?

Megha Majumdar: That's a fascinating question. I have to say that I did so much research on the effects of climate change in West Bengal and Kolkata. I reached out to professors who study that region of the world, and I heard back from only one-

Alison Stewart: Ah.

Megha Majumdar: -[chuckles] which was hilarious. I did a lot of research on the future that is coming for us. I think the elements of talking about social class, that was very much from the reality that I know of Kolkata growing up there.

Alison Stewart: Tell me a little bit more about that.

Megha Majumdar: I grew up in Kolkata. I was there until I was 19. I noticed very early in my childhood that I, in my middle class family, I, who went to school on my school bus every day was quite different from the many other kids that I saw around me. From the school bus, I would see kids who were washing dishes by the side of the road because they worked at these little restaurants on the sidewalk. I knew very early on that people have different levels of resources. It means that some kids go to school and some kids go to work at a restaurant. That awareness of class stratification has stayed with me over the decades.

Alison Stewart: Before we leave Ma, I want to bring up the fact that she has been stealing from the shelter. Why did you want to let us know that right away?

Megha Majumdar: I never wanted to write a book which has a hero who is Ma and then a villain who is the thief. I wanted to show how all of the characters in this book are morally gray. They are all wrestling with ethics and with love.

Alison Stewart: Our thief, supposedly a thief. Mom's a thief, but also a thief is Boomba. He lives outside of the city, but he believes the city has something for him or will hold something for him. What does he believe the city will hold for him and for his family?

Megha Majumdar: Boomba, the villager, has made a great mistake in his life, and he is looking to correct that mistake when he goes to the city. What he is hoping to find in the city is, I think, what all migrants are hoping to find. Safety, a better future, hope for his family. In his search, he grows desperate enough to do some of the things that the book talks about.

Alison Stewart: We don't give too much away, but we do want to say right away, he robs Ma's house. Why does he decide this is something he has to do?

Megha Majumdar: He is connected to Ma by the shelter where he has found temporary residence and where Ma works. He spots her stealing food, and he goes to her house to see if he can recover some of that food. What he is after is food, a very basic necessity, but what he also takes are the passports belonging to Ma and her family, which, of course, sets these characters on a collision course

Alison Stewart: My guest is author Megham Majumdar. We're talking about her new novel, A Guardian and a Thief. It's about a family who has their important visas and passports stolen from them, and the young man who stole those papers and everything that happens after that. It's out now. This novel, I was describing this to my team earlier, has amazing pacing to it. I've read so many thick novels, and I thought, "Are you going to get to the point?" [chuckles] You do not let the reader get comfortable. You move fast, things happen fast. We have to deal with it. It's all happening in a week. How did you think about pacing this novel, and what was the editing process like?

Megha Majumdar: I love that question, and I love that you found it paced well.

Alison Stewart: It really is.

Megha Majumdar: That's something that I worked very hard on. One of my teachers was Amy Hempel, and she said in an interview once that she writes as if the reader is dying to get away from her. That's something that I about a lot. I think a moment of boredom or a moment of confusion in a book is a moment where the prose has failed. I worked very hard to overcome those failures. In early drafts, that was so much of what I paid attention to. How can I keep my reader where I want them to be? How can I write something which is intellectually serious but also entertaining? I think being entertaining is very hard work, and I take it very seriously.

Alison Stewart: Both families, Ma and Boomba's family, have little small children. Why did you want to include small children? I'm assuming because you're a mom now, but I don't want to make that assumption. [chuckles]

Megha Majumdar: Yes, absolutely. I became a mom in 2021, early in the writing of this book. It seemed to me that the love any parent feels for their child is an immeasurably vast and fierce kind of love. I wanted to bring that love into the book. Of course, I needed to show that the center of this love are these beautiful, glorious, very funny children.

Alison Stewart: May I ask, when did you write the book?

When did you find time to write a book with a two-, three-, four-year-old? [laughter]

Megha Majumdar: I love that you ask that now. In addition to having a four-year-old, we also have a soon-to-be three-month-old. It's been hard to find the time.

Alison Stewart: Oh, my gosh.

Megha Majumdar: For anybody listening who has a creative life and is also a parent, I would say that that center, that tug in you that says, "I have to make this, I have to write this, I have to compose this, I have to film this," whatever it is. That artistic tug is vital to who we are and how we think of our life on earth. There was no way I could have stopped writing.

Alison Stewart: Also, you don't have to write for two hours at a time. I think it was-- I can't remember the author who told me that. She said, "Otherwise we'd be discounting people who are bus drivers or nurses who only have 10 or 15 minutes to write." You should just write when you have time.

Megha Majumdar: Exactly, and so much of writing is thinking. So much of writing can happen when you are taking a walk or running errands or cooking. As long as your creative project is alive and animated in your mind, you're turning over the characters, you're turning over the question. Your mind is doing so much of that work for you. You just have to hold space for it in your mind.

Alison Stewart: Your characters make increasingly desperate and difficult and sometimes really horrible choices along the way. How far did you decide to push things with each character?

Megha Majumdar: That's a great question, because the end, as I originally wrote it, was quite a bit different. That's something that I worked on with my editor, was writing an ending which holds both the ferocity and what I hope feels inevitable in the book, but also holds a moment of hope.

Alison Stewart: I don't want to talk about the ending, but the ending holds hope? Question mark. [laughter] Do you think so?

Megha Majumdar: I do think so. I think that, again, no spoilers, but I do think that the character of Boomba is somebody who acts from a place of love, acts from a place of guardianship. I hope that as the reader comes to the end with him and Ma, the reader understands that what this book is most interested in is the complexity of hope, is the truth. That hope is nothing tender or simple or straightforward, but it is incredibly complicated, and it can have manifestations that surprise us.

Alison Stewart: There is A billionaire in this novel who lives on a floating hexagon in the middle of a river. What does he represent?

Megha Majumdar: The billionaire is a good reminder, I think, of how people can do things out of different motivations. The billionaire offers a feast to the people of the city. The billionaire does this out of the goodness of her heart. At the same time, is she aware of how it looks? Is she aware of the optics? Is she aware of political benefit to be had in the future? Of course, all of those things are true.

Alison Stewart: Did you always plan for the billionaire to be a she?

Megha Majumdar: I did, yes.

Alison Stewart: Why?

Megha Majumdar: The place that I come from, Kolkata and West Bengal and India, we have had very strong women leaders. It felt quite natural and truthful to have a really strong woman leader in the book.

Alison Stewart: This family, in these seven days, has to figure out how they're going to get to Ann Arbor, Michigan. What does Ann Arbor mean to Ma and her family?

Megha Majumdar: It's a place where they hope that their child will be able to go to school safely, will be able to learn, to think, will be able to eat food, will face family dinners that are moments of peace and not moments of stress. For Ma and her family, Michigan really represents a new beginning, a chance to be all together with family and leave behind the city that they so love, but that has so let them down.

Alison Stewart: She's not always truthful with her husband in the book about what's going on. Why can't she be truthful with her husband, who's in Michigan and is ready for her and the family?

[laughter]

Megha Majumdar: This is a question that has come up, and people have different opinions on it. My thought when I was writing was I was thinking back to when I was a new immigrant in this country, and my phone calls to my parents back home, how when things were not easy, I would often sugarcoat the reality. I would often tell them that things are all right, there is no need to worry about me, because that assurance felt like the only form of love that I could give them at that point. They were too far to help me in any way. That's what I was thinking about in the phone conversations between Ma and her husband. The gift she gives him is, stay there, protect your peace, wait for us. This is her love speaking.

Alison Stewart: How does it feel having the book be received as well as it has been received?

Megha Majumdar: It feels surreal. It feels surreal.

Alison Stewart: It's got to be wild. A little bit wild, right?

Megha Majumdar: Absolutely, because you write the book in complete solitude. It comes from your mind and heart. There is nothing telling you that it is a book which works, which makes sense. You simply don't know. You trust that because the book is pulling you so powerfully, there is something there which will speak to others, but it's a very private and quiet conviction that comes from your own self. To put it forward, to put it in the hands of others, and to see people like you meeting it so brilliantly, bringing so much of your mind and heart and spirit to it, it's a huge gift.

Alison Stewart: The book is called A Guardian and a Thief. It is by Megha Majumdar. Thank you so much for coming to the studio, and congratulations on the book.

Megha Majumdar: Thank you. Alison. What a joy to be here.