[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We have some great conversations coming up on the show this week. Tomorrow, we'll learn about the rise and fall of the NFT market. There's a new documentary called Minted. It's really good. On Wednesday, comedian Gary Goldman will be here to talk about his new show, Grand Eloquent, which is at the Lucille Lortel Theater. On Thursday, actor Jesse Eisenberg, actor and director by the way, he'll be in studio to talk about his new movie, A Real Pain. That is in the future. Now let's get this started with Black Box Diaries.

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Listeners, we want to let you know that this conversation will deal with sexual assault. If at any time you feel you need support, please call the National Sexual Assault Hotline. That number is 1-800-656-4673. It's open 24 hours a day. When Shiori Itō was a young journalist starting out in Japan, she took what she thought would be a business meeting with a powerful television journalist. When she arrived, she was surprised to find it was a one-on-one dinner. As the night progressed, an incapacitated Shiori was brought unwillingly to a hotel.

She alleges that the man raped her. When Shiori's case stalled in the Japanese justice system, she decided to go public with her accusation. Her case caused a media firestorm in Japan because he was a close friend of then Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. The frenzy intensified after Shiori wrote a memoir titled Black Box. Some saw Shiori as an icon of Japan's MeToo movement. Others thought she was just trying to take down a powerful man.

Not to mention the law was antiquated, written more than a hundred years ago. Throughout this experience, Shiori began filming herself. She also began investigating her own case. The result is in the new documentary Black Box Diaries which is available to stream now on Paramount Plus. I'm joined now in studio by the film's director and subject, Shiori Itō. Nice to meet you.

Shiori Itō: You too. Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: When did you decide to start to document yourself on video?

Shiori Itō: On video? Well, first two years it was just protection reason. I didn't believe the police was doing their job. It was possible cover up and so I started documenting what was happening around me and when I went public hoping other journalists to be able to reach out these higher up people to ask questions, but it didn't happen in Japan. It was still quite difficult case to cover so I decided to keep covering and start filming all the journey with my friends.

Alison Stewart: How did you take care of yourself during the course of making this film because I wondered about you throughout the entire episode?

Shiori Itō: It's been quite a roller coaster. For me, documenting, filming what is happening in front of me was a lot easier because I was treating this case as it's happening to someone else. That was my coping mechanism, I guess, my survival method to act as a journalist and filmmaker but it was quite hard when I went into the editing room to revisit the things I didn't even remember some part of it and wish not to remember. We had over 400 hours of footage over eight years. It was a challenge to face that. I would say that was the most difficult part but my film teammate was the one who was supporting me, who had really passion and believing in storytelling, so that I think I survived it through.

Alison Stewart: You were able to be a journalist because you saw you as a subject. Like, I'm me and there's this other subject who happens to be me as well.

Shiori Itō: Yes, because you know what? It's hard to be the person to remember you're the victim, to talk about it over and over. People tell me how brave you are and so on, but I don't think so. I was, in a way, escaping from that because for me, that was survival. I think for some people being silenced is survival, and for me, seeking for the truth and asking questions was survival.

Alison Stewart: You switched between English and Japanese in the film, and you told the New York Times that sometimes you found it easier to communicate your emotions in English than in Japanese. Why is that?

Shiori Itō: It's just something I realized growing up as a Japanese woman in Japan, I never knew how to say no. Our no is taken as yes sometimes. It's a complicated language culture. I'm speaking as a woman. We don't have words to command or to tell someone to-

Alison Stewart: Stop.

Shiori Itō: -to stop. Yes, exactly. When even I was assaulted, when the man was top of me, I could say please stop in Japanese. I had to switch my mind and say it in English because it didn't stop in Japanese. I guess the language has been limiting me as a woman. That's something discovered and it was much easier for me to describe what is going on and talk about some emotions in English.

Alison Stewart: It's very clear that you were at the hotel. You didn't want to be at the hotel. You were dragged out of the cab by this man. There were people around who saw you dragged out of the cab. First of all, how are you able to get that footage for the film?

Shiori Itō: It was a long process. We got it because we need it for court case but to make sure the hotel keep the footage was some challenge because for them the man who assaulted me was the customer. It was really complicated relationship around there and who you want to protect and so on but in the end of the day, yes, we managed to get it. We had to pay some amount of money for them to blow some people.

Alison Stewart: Did you watch that with your colleagues all at once? Watch it by yourself? Did you watch it alone, that footage the first time?

Shiori Itō: First time, I begged to the police person for them to check if they still have it. Well, when I went to police for the first time, they said, "You know what, these things happens a lot and we can't take the case." I begged them I know which hotel I came out from and can you at least check? Maybe after a week or five days later the assault happened, we went into the hotel and we found the footage. I watched it with one investigator and it was surreal experience. I didn't remember. I was intoxicated and so I have no memory of being drugged, but I was drugged and I looked like a doll and couldn't believe that was me.

Alison Stewart: There were others in the footage who saw you. Did they come forward?

Shiori Itō: Yes, in the end of the day. Yes, towards the end of the case was closing. Very brave. Few person who witnessed what was happening came forward, but they had to risk their job and life and that was really hard for them to also stand up against the power. We have to remember that sexual violence always comes with some power corruption. It's really hard for people around, whoever can witness to come forward too. I was lucky in a way that I had some people who decided to come forward in the end.

Alison Stewart: I speak with Shiori Itō, director and subject of the new documentary Black Box Diaries. You can scream it now on Paramount Plus. Again, if you need support, please call the national sexual Assault Hotline, 800-656-4673. One thing you learn in the documentary is-- I'm just going to say the laws in Japan seem antiquated. They were written many, many years ago.

Shiori Itō: Ten year ago when women didn't even have a voting rights.

Alison Stewart: Would you explain to people the kinds of things the law says about consent?

Shiori Itō: Well, the good news is there were some updates-

Alison Stewart: Yes, there were updates--

Shiori Itō: -right after I went public. Now, men can report the rape. It was only for women. Finally, our age of consent used to be 13 years old. Think about that. What did you know about consent when you're 13? That was updated in 2023 to 16 years old, but still, definition of rape is down to how much victim can prove how much she or he's been threatened or violated severely. It's still difficult to report.

Alison Stewart: Why did you decide to go public with the story .

Shiori Itō: As a journalist, I was starting my career as a journalist and I felt like if I cannot seek the truth, what happened to me I shouldn't be a journalist which was my dream. I knew if I keep the writ on what happened to me, it would twist me from inside. Purely, it was survival reason, but also, growing up in Japan, being groped on public transport when we were in school and so on, it was everyday life. Thinking this would be rest of my life in my career to be assaulted or to be looked down in this way, I couldn't think of that for next generation. For my little sister too and I had to do something about it.

Alison Stewart: You thought you were going to a one-on-one business meeting with this man. You can say his name if you like to. I don't want to but you're welcome to. I just wanted to say that but he obviously was a really powerful person.

Shiori Itō: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How powerful was he in the media and in Japan at the time?

Shiori Itō: Well, he's been written two biography of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, ex Prime Minister. Two, not even one, who needs two biographies. He was very connected, not just the Prime Minister but everyone around him and he told me he knows some powerful people so no one will believe you. It was hard because just talking about sexual violence in Japan is such a taboo topic.

All of my family went against and it always comes with stigma and actually right now, I'm still getting all the pushback and I'm flying back tonight and it makes me so afraid like if I can stay home and so I'm actually planning fly. I mean, move away from Japan for now. It's been amazing to be able to screen it here in States but we haven't been yet screening it back home in Japan. It's hard one to talk about but--

Alison Stewart: You have to move out of your home.

Shiori Itō: I think so now. Yes.

Alison Stewart: Because why.

Shiori Itō: I think some people are still not ready to watch it. There have been quite pushback from the powerful people. I thought it's 2025 and it's a film and it's sort of my love letter to Japan and to my sister and to people I love. I know it's hard to look at some of the things that we haven't yet been stepped forward to make it better for society, but we have to do it to make our society feel livable.

I've been meeting so many amazing Japanese women outside of Japan through this screening of this film telling me I've been through something similar or I can't think about walking in Japan now because it's really hard as a woman not being able to talk about this issue or being always threatened by this assault. It's really sad to think of it.

Alison Stewart: It's difficult because some women were really supportive of you and then some women blamed you, they victim blamed you. Were you surprised when you got that email that you share when some of the women yelled at you as you went downstairs at the courthouse. People who saw you as the problem?

Shiori Itō: It was shocking but that was something I could also imagine because I've covered about sexual assault cases before as a journalist and I see the pushback and how society reacts towards that. When I published my book, it was exactly same time when MeToo happened in here and thinking, wow, it's all about solidarity here and it wasn't the case back home in Japan. That was really hard to understand.

I think it's because when you live in a society, when you have to survive in a society where it's very patriarchal, hierarchy, demonic way of living, it's hard to get out from the system when you were told you have to be certain way. I'm sure some of the women who yell at me or coming after me felt unfair because they've been silenced. They had to live in that way. They have to embed it with the society and why am I talking about it?

Alison Stewart: I speak with Shiori Itō, director and subject of the new documentary Black Box Diaries. It's about Shiori's journey after publicly accusing a powerful man of sexual assault. You can stream it now on Paramount Plus. All right, I'm going to ask you to put on your journalist hat. You sat down, you have this big story you're going to cover. Who did you decide you wanted to interview? Who did you decide for this film that you definitely wanted to interview?

Shiori Itō: For my film?

Alison Stewart: Yes. Who did you like make the list? You make a list. I want to interview this person, I want to interview that person.

Shiori Itō: Well, I had many lists but actually as a journalist, I felt like I need to interview my offender, the perpetrator, Yamaguchi because as a journalist I felt like he also maybe needs to say something. I felt somehow not fair about telling my own one sided story but whole of my teammate, the film team said no, that's not necessary. In documentary film, it is okay to tell and to investigate your own film. It took some time for me to embrace and understand it is okay in the film but wearing the journalist hat, it was really hard to know what's the balance, what can I do as a subject.

Alison Stewart: There's a scene where you're talking to an investigator on your behalf and he starts to come on to you. He says, "Oh well, maybe you'll marry me," or maybe we'll have dinner. Your face is you look very struck by it. What did you make of that conversation?

Shiori Itō: Actually until I looked the footage of that conversation, I didn't remember what happened. I think it was too shocking to me what he said but in the end of the day, I think that's something we experiencing in everyday life. You trust someone, you thought this person is safe and this can happen to you. I was very ashamed. I was keep thinking did I give the wrong signal or whatever. No, it wasn't on me but no one is perfect. He in a way did reveal some of the cover up the police did, so I do thank him for being brave to talk about it to me but at the same time, I cannot take that action towards me like that so we decided to put it in the film. Even though it was quite hard decision.

Alison Stewart: Were you ever afraid for your life in making this film?

Shiori Itō: Yes. I had to move away from Japan once to London to make this film and write a book. One birthday a few years ago while I was making this film, my friend gave me, it was a tank top that it's anti stabbing because my friends saw all the threats online and trolls that some people want to really attack me. To receive that to thinking, "Oh, is this my life is going to be if I stay in Japan?"

That was scary but I Stopped being scared because what can I do? I don't want to live feeling fear all the time. If they want to attack me, they do but my job is to tell this story. That's what I try to keep telling myself, but it's hard to tell to myself all the time but I am scared right now that I'm heading back to Tokyo to be honest with you.

Alison Stewart: I'm sorry you're having that experience. There's a point in the film where you're crying, you're talking about you don't know if you can take it anymore and then it cuts to a hospital bill and we're left to fill in. Why did you decide to include what's a really difficult moment in the film?

Shiori Itō: That particular iPhone footage, I shot it for my family. It was a video letter, but I forgot about filming it and it was my editor who discover the piece of footage from my iPhone a year after we start editing. For me, I didn't want to put it as a subject, as a victim. I didn't want my family to see because I made it but then when I saw another footage of the moment you mentioned, me waking up in a hospital from the bed. I was start filming already. It said a lot.

I couldn't take it anymore but then I wanted survive to tell this story. I mean, who would do that? You try to take your own life away and you start filming. I thought I'm losing it but then it was my way of surviving. When I saw that piece of footage, I thought, "Okay, it has to be in a film." That decision was coming from as a director but it was hard one to put in because we haven't been able to screen it back home, my family hasn't seen it. Hopefully, they will see with some support.

Alison Stewart: You've had really good support from your friends. How did your friends help you through this period?

Shiori Itō: When I felt unsafe staying at my apartment, my best friend immediately took me to her house and gave me the safe house. Actually, how we made this film was throughout the friendship. My producer, Hannah, she was the one who just called me out of nowhere through Skype, who was living in London and said, "You know what? Why don't you move here and just be safe here and think about what you can do?"

That's how we started to work together. If that didn't happen, I didn't know how to survive back home in Japan alone. Having that sort of bodily support helped me because when you think you can't live anymore in that particular society, it's opening the door when you know you can maybe escape somewhere else.

Alison Stewart: Are you able to work as a journalist now?

Shiori Itō: I hope so. I want to make more film. That's for sure too.

Alison Stewart: This is very interesting. Somebody sent a text to me during this conversation that says it's disappointing that I won't say the alleged perpetrator's name on the radio creating an air of additional shame on reporting by this young woman. I was doing it out of respect for you. It's your choice whether you want to say this man's name or not. Do you want to say his name or do you not want to? I wanted to leave it up to you.

Shiori Itō: Nori Yuki Yamaguchi. Why not? Thank you.

Alison Stewart: I was really doing it out of respect.

Shiori Itō: Thank you. No, I feel that but you know what? That gave me empower that I should be able to have no feeling to name it so thank you so much for giving this opportunity.

Alison Stewart: What has been the response to this film?

Shiori Itō: We've been traveling for one year now to screen this film over 30 different countries. No matter where there is a better law to protect survivor, I see every single audience eyes that they are carrying something similar or they know someone they love. I feel it and it's really emotional moment every time I go into the theater and feel it. How universal this experience is.

Alison Stewart: The name of the film is Black Box Diaries. It's streaming now on Paramount Plus. [Japanese language]. Thank you for being with us.

Shiori Itō: Arigato. Thank you for having me.